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mynameisroland
02-14-2006, 08:54 AM
Ive flown the Tempest online now for a total of 2 hours and I find it to be hard work. The map I was playing on has Fw 190 D9's, Bf 109 G10's and G14's. On my first encounter I managed to kill a Bf 109 head on and also damage another Bf 109's engine so that he was out of the fight. I was crusing at a 100% with no boost at 4400m and I encountered a Bf 109 G10 around 600m above me heading towards me. I went in to a shallow dive still without boost and I watched as the Bf 109 followed me diving from above forming on to my 6. I waited until my indicated speed was over 700kmh and I began to barrel roll. The Bf 109 overshot as he couldnt follow the roll rate, I leveled off again this time full throttle and boost I was going near 700km/h again. The Bf 109 had repostitioned itself on my 6 and again was gaining. I was now down to 2000m and decided to run to the deck I descended in a shallow dive until I was flying along a river running back to British lines. I could hear the Bf 109's Mk 108 cannon spewing rounds in my ears above the dinn of the engine.

I got hit by one of these rounds and it broke off my starboard wing tip. I checked my airspeed and I was travelling 840 Km/h when this happened. I had been unable to outdistance this Bf 109 despite extending the fight and bleeding off most of his initial E thinking that I would be able to outrun him using superior potential top speed.


I then set up a QMB against 4x Fw 190 A4 Aces and again after an initial couple of clashes I ended up co eneergy and decided to bug out in a shallow dive. Despite going full boost and throttle the Fw 190 A4 managed to gain on me until we were both travelling on the deck at over 800km/h but the Fw 190 was closing on me! I got shot down.

Is there some hints and tips anybody can give me about flying the Tempest? I am fine with tactics and Energy fighting I just really need info on how to handle the pitch/boost/throttle management on the Tempest as I am sure Im not getting the best out of her. I could have achieved better results in a Fw 190 A6.

FA_Whisky
02-14-2006, 09:25 AM
At the moment its an overheating dog......

But, it can deliver a nasty bite....

Kuna_
02-14-2006, 09:33 AM
Here is the deal so far.
FW-190 simply cannot cut with the Tempest; Tempest win in most fights. Sorry butchers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
Same is the situation Bf-109 - Tempest. Bf-109 wins most fights. Tempest can make a separation from Bf-109 due to speed in escape attempt, if there's enough space tho.

The exceptions in both cases being huge alt advantage.

About Tempest overheat, no this isn't a problem for me I set it around 90%+BOOST rad open and I wont overheat. And bird will still climb like it's on extasy. Proper trim needed tho, since Tempest can get naughty without it.

WOLFMondo
02-14-2006, 09:38 AM
I think it overheated pretty badly for real, not sure this badly though.

Roland, the peak power the first stage is 6000ft and the 2nd is 18,000ft. It puts out the least power on the deck, 12,000ft and the power falls of rapidly above 20,000ft but its still good for 404mph at 32,000ft. Other than that, I've noticed the rudder trim needs constant attention. The radiator seems to creat allot of drag as well but then real tempest pilots did use this to there advantage.

Kwiatos
02-14-2006, 09:39 AM
90% prop pitch or throlle?

p1ngu666
02-14-2006, 09:39 AM
thats pretty much it

rad closed, 100% pp, and wep and 110% will give u max performance. the supercharger is manual btw.

ai have hax dive performance, if it was ai btw.
p47 can outdive a me163 on full power in a vertical dive, if its a ai p47 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Brain32
02-14-2006, 09:54 AM
Many pilots, many opinions . I don't find 109 so difficult to fight, maybe because I flew it much so I know what they can and can not do, or maybe I like my Tempest too much to admit any plane has any advantage over it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
As for the CEM, I use 80% thrrothle, BOOST on, radiator at 4 to full open. Also combat flaps can be deployed at very high speeds without damage http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
The FUEL gauge is incorrect http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif (I'll try to recreate and record).

luftluuver
02-14-2006, 10:02 AM
Have you read the 'Pilot Notes'?
http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/Handlin...craftinfo.asp?ID=169 (http://www.dauntless-soft.com/PRODUCTS/Freebies/HandlingNotes/aircraftinfo.asp?ID=169)

OldMan____
02-14-2006, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by Kuna_:
Here is the deal so far.
FW-190 simply cannot cut with the Tempest; Tempest win in most fights. Sorry butchers http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.
Same is the situation Bf-109 - Tempest. Bf-109 wins most fights. Tempest can make a separation from Bf-109 due to speed in escape attempt, if there's enough space tho.

The exceptions in both cases being huge alt advantage.

About Tempest overheat, no this isn't a problem for me I set it around 90%+BOOST rad open and I wont overheat. And bird will still climb like it's on extasy. Proper trim needed tho, since Tempest can get naughty without it.

Simply can´t agree. I´ve won almost every fight againt tempest in my Anton I made until now (I consider fight when both see each other at sufficient distance, not when he just pop up 50 m behind me). I manaed to outmaneuver the tempests most of time. (But it takes time, is not a one maneuver job). And EVERY time a tempest tried a scissor on me was VERY easy to make it overshoot.


Sorry but FW is very on par with tempest. It is far from an Uber plane. It is just a cousing of FW on the red side.

WOLFMondo
02-14-2006, 10:12 AM
I'd say its better than the A8/A9 but not the Dora. The Dora IMHO is still the best pure fighter in this sim.

Brain32
02-14-2006, 10:13 AM
Have you read the 'Pilot Notes'?
Oops http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_redface.gif I did not check those extra gauges...

OldMan____
02-14-2006, 10:19 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I'd say its better than the A8/A9 but not the Dora. The Dora IMHO is still the best pure fighter in this sim.

Even the A6 can handle it. You just dont run. You face it! They are pretty matched fight. But tempest is bigger, so usually gets hit first. That usually changes the combat pretty quickly.

Allied_Killer
02-14-2006, 10:19 AM
.....The Dora IMHO is still the best pure fighter in this sim.

You is wrong, it's the +25lb boost Spit, be sure!!!

Edit: The "overheat" message on Allied planes is nothing more than eyecandy, one could keep flying with full throttle for eternity before sustaining any amount of engine damage.

mynameisroland
02-14-2006, 10:49 AM
I can manage E very effectively and I know how to outfight types like the Spitfire , Bf 109 and La5FN while flying wither the Corsair or the Fw 190. I do 90% of my flying online and I have decided to jump in at the deep end and learn the Tempest online.

It is acceleration in a dive that I find a wee bit lacking, I was outdived by a Bf 109 online comprehensively. I understand the need to fly around keeping the engine cool but I need to know if 100% pitch is not the way to go. Does 75 % offer greater speed in a dive for example?

TX-Zen
02-14-2006, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The Dora IMHO is still the best pure fighter in this sim.

Much love for ya Mondo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Unknown-Pilot
02-14-2006, 11:08 AM
The Tempest doesn't overheat all that quickly. It's the Spitfire that doesn't overheat at all that is the problem and throws off the curve.

BTW - Against a 190, since the Tempest (as modeled) can turn ridiculously well, just treat it like a giant Spitfire.... *in that situation only*. Against a 109 it's a different story, but against the forever cursed Oleg-ised 190's, just turn.

p1ngu666
02-14-2006, 11:13 AM
zen has returned http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Xiolablu3
02-14-2006, 11:22 AM
The Tempest could outurn the 190D so I guess it could quite easily outturn the 190A.

'The Tempest makes a bigger orbit than the Dora but completes the actual turn quicker meaning that after 2 full the circles the Tempest is in a position to fire'

Actual quote from a Tempest pilots report dogfighting with a Dora.

WOLFMondo
02-14-2006, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I'd say its better than the A8/A9 but not the Dora. The Dora IMHO is still the best pure fighter in this sim.

Even the A6 can handle it. You just dont run. You face it! They are pretty matched fight. But tempest is bigger, so usually gets hit first. That usually changes the combat pretty quickly. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats tactics though, one paper the Tempest is superior in all but roll rate to all the Antons. Its only marginally inferior to the Dora in a few ways. I like it anyway.

mynameisroland
02-14-2006, 11:28 AM
Its always dangerous to apply real world logic in to this sim Xiola http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I would put a wager on me in a Fw 190 over any pilot on UKD in a Tempest.

Believe me I want to do well in the Tempest I just dont think it is as capable in this patch 4.03 as it was in WW2 and I do think we need 11lb boost or to keep the Tempest 9lb against early 1944 opposition like the Bf 109 G6 late and Fw 190 A6 where it can rock.

Watch this space I will become good in the Tempest but Im beginning to feel it is inferior generally speaking when compared to the Fw 190 A6 and infinitely inferior when compared to the Dora 9.

anarchy52
02-14-2006, 11:36 AM
I disagree. Tempest is superior to all Antons except in roll rate. turn, zoom, climb, dive, DM.

D9 is more of a match with contignuous climb advantage, while zoom and manuverability at lower speed go to Tempest.

Xiolablu3
02-14-2006, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Its always dangerous to apply real world logic in to this sim Xiola http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I would put a wager on me in a Fw 190 over any pilot on UKD in a Tempest.

.

I totally agree, you are one of the best 190 pilots I have ever seen. I know that there are faults with the model (The A model especially seems really underpowered for example) but you overcome them really well.

I was just answering Unknown Pilots post really, I should have quoted it to make that clear. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Brain32
02-14-2006, 11:39 AM
Watch this space I will become good in the Tempest but Im beginning to feel it is inferior generally speaking when compared to the Fw 190 A6 and infinitely inferior when compared to the Dora 9.
You is wrong be sure, just don't treat her like a turnfighter, it's practically a FW190 which can turn if needed and does that very well. Eventually you will understand what am I talking about, it's not superiour to FW's, they are closely matched.

mynameisroland
02-14-2006, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by anarchy52:
I disagree. Tempest is superior to all Antons except in roll rate. turn, zoom, climb, dive, DM.

D9 is more of a match with contignuous climb advantage, while zoom and manuverability at lower speed go to Tempest.

It should be... but I dont think this incarnation of the Tempest is. I feel the Fw 190 A6 has better SUSTAINED performance due to engine overheat model, it requires little or no trim, It has great dive speed and its visibility is actually pretty close (excluding the bloody gunsight view http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

Xiolablu3
02-14-2006, 11:41 AM
Are you on the server tonight Boemher?

mynameisroland
02-14-2006, 11:43 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Its always dangerous to apply real world logic in to this sim Xiola http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I would put a wager on me in a Fw 190 over any pilot on UKD in a Tempest.

.

I totally agree, you are one of the best 190 pilots I have ever seen. I know that there are faults with the model (The A model especially seems really underpowered for example) but you overcome them really well.

I was just answering Unknown Pilots post really, I should have quoted it to make that clear. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey I know you were mate, I was posting on my dis satisfaction with the Tempest. Tactically speaking the same rules should apply Fw and Tempest are both E fighters that are heavy and have good firepower. Both will be outturned by Bf/Spit but both should hold other advantages.

I just need to eek out the advantages of the Tempest, at the moment I cannot get it to accelerate fast enough in a dive. It has to be something to do with prop pitch.

mynameisroland
02-14-2006, 11:44 AM
Yup i'll be online after 10 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I did my Valentines day bit yesterday

Allied_Killer
02-14-2006, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by TX-Zen:
..........Much love for ya Mondo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Are you the same Zen who taught us newbies how to fly and fight with the Fw 190 online a few years back with those cool tracks?

I still watch them once in a while even now. If it's you, then good to know you're still around and thank you very much for your generosity.

WOLFMondo
02-14-2006, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by mynameisroland:


It should be... but I dont think this incarnation of the Tempest is. I feel the Fw 190 A6 has better SUSTAINED performance due to engine overheat model, it requires little or no trim, It has great dive speed and its visibility is actually pretty close (excluding the bloody gunsight view http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif )

The overheating is a pain but the A6 looses it on speed at all heights, especially at 5.5km where the Tempest is rocking. I found the dive to be ok though although the zoom isn't too great despite the Tempest being noted especially for those two things, dive and zoom climb.

VW-IceFire
02-14-2006, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Allied_Killer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TX-Zen:
..........Much love for ya Mondo http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Are you the same Zen who taught us newbies how to fly and fight with the Fw 190 online a few years back with those cool tracks?

I still watch them once in a while even now. If it's you, then good to know you're still around and thank you very much for your generosity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That'd be the guy.

Zen is the best FW190 I've ever had the pleasure of flying with. Boehmer is a close second place...no offense intended towards anyone. If I'm flying another plane against either of those guys I know I'm in big trouble http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I've still getting a feel for the Tempest so it'll take some time to properly compare against opponents. I don't feel that the Antons have a 1 vs 1 chance against the Tempest. It can outmanuever them in nearly every way and then run them down at the end. Against the Dora it seems to be more about who has initiative. If the Dora's run...then the Tempest isn't like to catch it except at medium altitude.

Xiolablu3
02-14-2006, 04:14 PM
Cool, does Zen play on UKded?

I look forward to seeing him in action.

S!

HellToupee
02-14-2006, 05:18 PM
I feel the tempest is superior to the antons, however tho i feel the anton is better at very low speeds, like when they are rolling left and right trying to force over shoot at those speeds temp is very unstable in the yaw axis and can stall without warning, and isnt so good at looping manovers. However tho if u keep speed up it will outturn and roll very good. The overheat is an issue, but as long as u enter a fight with a cool engine u should not have to worry.

blackpulpit1970
02-14-2006, 05:30 PM
Holy carp did i just see ZEN on the forums, man long time no see and good to hear you are around mate, hope all is well with you.

VW-IceFire
02-14-2006, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
Cool, does Zen play on UKded?

I look forward to seeing him in action.

S!
No...I haven't seen him flying anywhere in well over a year. I suspect probably on WarClouds, GreaterGreen back in the day, or Spit vs 109 or one of those servers.

Grey_Mouser67
02-14-2006, 06:20 PM
I have flown the Tempest enough to say that I've had trouble outdiving and outrunning late model 109's in it...but I really believe that to be more of an issue with the 109's than the Tempest...109's have always been too good in dive imho and currently they appear to out accelerate the Tempest...

I would also say that I would have no fear from Antons, no matter who the pilot was except for an Anton that bounced me. They simply can't hang with the Tempest in any way. The Tempest has wonderfully light controls at speed and as long as I have altitude, there is no 109 that can stay with it at speed in terms of roll rate and turn....just hope you don't run out of altitude.

The Dora, I believe, is a superior plane to the Tempest and probably superior to nearly every plane in the sim currently. Again with advantage or equality, I have shot down a few Dora's already with not being shot down...but I have had a close call or two. I doubt a Dora could turn the tables on me if I were on its six, but I sure wouldn't want one on my six!

The biggest trick to the Tempest is keeping engine cool and going into a fight and not using WEP until necessary....it is a very average fighter without WEP. You get 5 minutes and not a second longer in overheat before your engine is toast....so manage it carefully.

Question about overheat...does the engine fry as a result of too many minutes in overheat or because you reached to high a temperature and how do you know it? Haven't tested, but will if nobody comes up with the answer.

The Tempest is not Uber...in fact, its just about right for a mid 44 plane. I think the community assumed it would be the answer to the K and Dora...it probably isn't but if you looked at mid 44 adversaries like the G6Late, G14 and Fw190A-8...I think the Tempest will do just fine! We just have to get a server that will actually put those planes in it.

HellToupee
02-14-2006, 08:13 PM
the biggest issue is the rear view, most times i get shot down its because im crusing along trying to keep the engine cool and theres some sucker coming up behind me i have no chance of seeing. Compared to the spits excellent rear view and additional mirror. If only u could move ur head the advantages of a bubble canopy might be worth something.

karost
02-14-2006, 11:01 PM
Tempest quite good below 6K


for defensive I can shake P-47,P-51,P-38 out of my A-9 by hi-speed rolling but not sprit and templest so hi-speed drive to extend has more room to surviey. but if I see Templest and P-47 at my 6 there is no room for surviey for sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

for offensive shooting Tempest is more easy than sprit when you stay at advantage situation.

if Tempest has a same altitue and same speed with 190A8,9 1vs1 well Tempest win.... sure.


so now in WC I try to avoid to fly along but keep close with team friends then Tempest is not Uber ....

S!

pourshot
02-14-2006, 11:26 PM
I Agree with you 100% Roland regards the Tempest although I would add that I think the rear view puts you at a huge disadvantage in many situations, if you are on the attack the view from the pit is just fine but as soon as you start zooming around I find it hard to keep track of the enemies position and I don€t like the idea of turning to see were he is. I think for me at least I would give it to the FW for now.

Then again if I have a good wing man to call out those sneaky buggers climbing up behind me then would it make me feel a lot less nervous online.

Hristo_
02-15-2006, 01:55 AM
It seems that Tempest drivers are now experiencing similar things that Fw 190 and P47 drivers have gone through few years ago.

It is not easy to be successful in what is essentially a BnZ machine in a TnB favoring environment, especially with seasoned competition who has no fear, no wisdom and sometimes no logical behavior.

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 02:00 AM
I've not found 109's to be a problem, its the 190D's and Ta152s bouncing me at 5000m while i'm bouncing someone else.

That and the overheat which is a total performance killer when most of the planes that can catch you can run there WEP equivlent indefinately. If it didn't overheat and kill the engine within 5 minutes it would be a much more effective aircraft.

I knew the Tempest did have heating problems but this bad?

Hristo_
02-15-2006, 02:16 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I've not found 109's to be a problem, its the 190D's and Ta152s bouncing me at 5000m while i'm bouncing someone else.
...
I knew the Tempest did have heating problems but this bad?

Both things seem to fill quite a few historical accounts. Dogfights between Fw 190D-9s and Tempests could go either way.

Only one documented dogfight of Ta 152s vs Tempests is documented and it was pretty onesided.

Didn't Clostermann mention overheating several times ?

Kuna_
02-15-2006, 02:35 AM
You guys in Tempests... just you wait and see what happens when you get yourself involved in 1 vs 1 against experienced K4 guy. Don't be too enthusiastic, tho.

HellToupee
02-15-2006, 02:48 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I've not found 109's to be a problem, its the 190D's and Ta152s bouncing me at 5000m while i'm bouncing someone else.
...
I knew the Tempest did have heating problems but this bad?

Both things seem to fill quite a few historical accounts. Dogfights between Fw 190D-9s and Tempests could go either way.

Only one documented dogfight of Ta 152s vs Tempests is documented and it was pretty onesided.

Didn't Clostermann mention overheating several times ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

and wasnt closterman flying a tempest boosted at 13lbs

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 03:20 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I've not found 109's to be a problem, its the 190D's and Ta152s bouncing me at 5000m while i'm bouncing someone else.
...
I knew the Tempest did have heating problems but this bad?

Both things seem to fill quite a few historical accounts. Dogfights between Fw 190D-9s and Tempests could go either way.

Only one documented dogfight of Ta 152s vs Tempests is documented and it was pretty onesided.

Didn't Clostermann mention overheating several times ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only documented fight between a Ta152 and Tempest was a stall fight which could be put down to pilot error as the Tempest was no stall fighter. The Tempest wasn't actually shot down but stalled out and hit the ground. Not saying either is a superior plane but that fight really was down to the pilot making a mistake, but then he has no knowledge of the Ta152's turning ability like we dohttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

Closterman did mention overheating but as pointed out, he was running his engine at 2995HP +13lbs boost and just shy of 4000rpm. He mentioned it overheating but he ran the engine like that for some time.

Its also worth pointing out he only used it once, the rest of the time the felt the Tempests performance without the boost was good enough.

Hristo_
02-15-2006, 03:39 AM
Ta 152 wasn't a stall fighter either, especially not down on the deck.

Yet, the pilot (Reschke) said he felt never to have reached Ta's limits, while Tempest pilot obviously did. Hmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 03:44 AM
Tempest Overheat is at same levels of most Antons.

N ew A5 for example is even worse. It overheat at max power (auto pitch) in 1 minute and 43 seconds. The Spit 9 25 lbs takes 6 minutes and 23 seconds. Still didn´t made precise measurements for Tempest. As soon as I do I will post hem.

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 03:54 AM
Oldman, its overheat is like nothing else and no where near the levels of any Anton. On full power+WEP I can get to 3000m+ in an A6 or A9 before the overheat message even appears. By 3000m doing the same in the Tempest the oil temp is almost 160 degrees and the engine has only a few minutes of life left in it.

If you put it to full power on take off and close the rads you can get the Tempest to overheat before its even got to 500m!


Originally posted by Hristo_:
Ta 152 wasn't a stall fighter either, especially not down on the deck.

Yet, the pilot (Reschke) said he felt never to have reached Ta's limits, while Tempest pilot obviously did. Hmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thats a pretty hard statement to back up since the Tempest pilot died so never really could comment on it. I wouldn't use one dogfight as a bench mark for either plane. We could do the same for any WW2 fighter and draw very wrong conclusions that are contradicted elsewhere.

stathem
02-15-2006, 04:04 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
Ta 152 wasn't a stall fighter either, especially not down on the deck.

Yet, the pilot (Reschke) said he felt never to have reached Ta's limits, while Tempest pilot obviously did. Hmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Err, didn't one of Reschke's wingmen auger in? Maybe Reschke was the better pilot.

luftluuver
02-15-2006, 04:20 AM
Originally posted by stathem:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Ta 152 wasn't a stall fighter either, especially not down on the deck.

Yet, the pilot (Reschke) said he felt never to have reached Ta's limits, while Tempest pilot obviously did. Hmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Err, didn't one of Reschke's wingmen auger in? Maybe Reschke was the better pilot. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Obfw. Sepp Sattler was lost before combat with the Tempests for unknown reasons.

stathem
02-15-2006, 04:24 AM
Ah Ok. I'd read he lost control and went in.

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 04:31 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Oldman, its overheat is like nothing else and no where near the levels of any Anton. On full power+WEP I can get to 3000m+ in an A6 or A9 before the overheat message even appears. By 3000m doing the same in the Tempest the oil temp is almost 160 degrees and the engine has only a few minutes of life left in it.

If you put it to full power on take off and close the rads you can get the Tempest to overheat before its even got to 500m!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hristo_:
Ta 152 wasn't a stall fighter either, especially not down on the deck.

Yet, the pilot (Reschke) said he felt never to have reached Ta's limits, while Tempest pilot obviously did. Hmmm http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thats a pretty hard statement to back up since the Tempest pilot died so never really could comment on it. I wouldn't use one dogfight as a bench mark for either plane. We could do the same for any WW2 fighter and draw very wrong conclusions that are contradicted elsewhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course).

pourshot
02-15-2006, 04:37 AM
Err, didn't one of Reschke's wingmen auger in? Maybe Reschke was the better pilot.

You are probably still correct, if I am not mistaken Reschke was very skill pilot.

Still I know of another combat with a NZ pilot flying Tempest v 190D and it was pretty close and could have gone either way but Tempest won, also tempest pilot was used to flying spits so maybe a pure Tempest pilot would have done it more easy who knows really.

luftluuver
02-15-2006, 04:37 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). Well you should get overheat as 1.65 was restricted to use under 1000m.

pourshot
02-15-2006, 04:39 AM
By the way I killed my first Tempest in warclouds tonite flying Dora and yep I was in his blind spot and had lots of time to kill him.

pourshot
02-15-2006, 04:42 AM
Originally posted by Hristo_:
It seems that Tempest drivers are now experiencing similar things that Fw 190 and P47 drivers have gone through few years ago.

It is not easy to be successful in what is essentially a BnZ machine in a TnB favoring environment, especially with seasoned competition who has no fear, no wisdom and sometimes no logical behavior.

I think what makes it hard is if you fly Tempest to it's strong points B@Z you are doing exactly what the Dora pilot wants you to do and he has been doing it longer than you http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Brain32
02-15-2006, 04:54 AM
Well I don't find overheat such a big problem, it's not like some uber Spit that never overheats so you can run it max power for ages, you guys obviously never flew MW50 109's http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
What's the point of running 110+wep all the time, at 80% with rads to 4 it never overheats and runs and climbs like mad, when you enter a fight firewall the thrrothle...
Also I did not notice any plane has some signifficant tactical advantage over me, all planes are dangerous when they have alt advantage over you, I also engaged climbing stall fight with Ta152 which ended in Ta running for it's life http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif but it could end the other way around also, I simply picked a better angle
You can't count being bounced by opponent you did not see, or being dragged by 2 guys into a trap as a disadvantage. Tempest is simply very competitive with other planes, it's a British Dora. Also there is one huge advantage Tempest in game has over FW's in game, it's forward view is apsolutley PERFECT and we all know how important for a E-fighter is to make a first shot...

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 05:03 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). Well you should get overheat as 1.65 was restricted to use under 1000m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even then the Tempest is still allot worse.

besides, can we drop this red vs blue 'well if my plane does this so should yours ****'? Its really tiresome, especially since not all of us play the red vs blue game.

Kuna_
02-15-2006, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If you put it to full power on take off and close the rads you can get the Tempest to overheat before its even got to 500m!

Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying that you guys are wrong in your opinion, or something.
Here is a little test.
Crimea, 12OC, default fuel+weapons, wind+turbulence off.

tempest+fw-1901,65ata_c+o (http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/tracks/offline/403__tempest+fw-1901,65_c+o.zip)

Both are doing above 2000m, and actually beast holds breath around 100m higher than FW-1901,65ata. Not to mention that poor butcher bird climbs like a brick when that two planes are compared.
This is by no means perfect test but it is very indicative. Check it out guys!

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 05:11 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). Well you should get overheat as 1.65 was restricted to use under 1000m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even then the Tempest is still allot worse.

besides, can we drop this red vs blue 'well if my plane does this so should yours ****'? Its really tiresome, especially since not all of us play the red vs blue game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it is not a matter of red vs blue. But that most Red are now used to Spit that can go ages without overheat. That makes anything else look as ultra fast overheating. The time I flow with tempest I just not used 100% pitch and it only overheated as a quite normal plane would do in game.

About the 1000 m. It does not work that way. Above the 1000 m there is no extra boost. So engine should baheve EXACTLY the same.

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 05:20 AM
Originally posted by Kuna_:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
If you put it to full power on take off and close the rads you can get the Tempest to overheat before its even got to 500m!

Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying that you guys are wrong in your opinion, or something.
Here is a little test.
Crimea, 12OC, default fuel+weapons, wind+turbulence off.

tempest+fw-1901,65ata_c+o (http://free-vk.t-com.hr/domagoj/tracks/offline/403__tempest+fw-1901,65_c+o.zip)

Both are doing above 2000m, and actually beast holds breath around 100m higher than FW-1901,65ata. Not to mention that poor butcher bird climbs like a brick when that two planes are compared.
This is by no means perfect test but it is very indicative. Check it out guys! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

obviouly how high you can reach before overhea depends on how you climb. In a Spit or 109 style climb at high angle or in a FW style climb at very shallow angle.

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 05:55 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). Well you should get overheat as 1.65 was restricted to use under 1000m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even then the Tempest is still allot worse.

besides, can we drop this red vs blue 'well if my plane does this so should yours ****'? Its really tiresome, especially since not all of us play the red vs blue game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it is not a matter of red vs blue. But that most Red are now used to Spit that can go ages without overheat. That makes anything else look as ultra fast overheating. The time I flow with tempest I just not used 100% pitch and it only overheated as a quite normal plane would do in game.

About the 1000 m. It does not work that way. Above the 1000 m there is no extra boost. So engine should baheve EXACTLY the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only way to get the Tempest to its rated RPM's at any height is to use the boost. Look at the RPM and boost indicator. It doesn't even cruise at the right RPM without the boost.

There is most definately some bug somewhere regarding its boost/rpm/overheat because they don't match up.

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 06:01 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). Well you should get overheat as 1.65 was restricted to use under 1000m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even then the Tempest is still allot worse.

besides, can we drop this red vs blue 'well if my plane does this so should yours ****'? Its really tiresome, especially since not all of us play the red vs blue game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

it is not a matter of red vs blue. But that most Red are now used to Spit that can go ages without overheat. That makes anything else look as ultra fast overheating. The time I flow with tempest I just not used 100% pitch and it only overheated as a quite normal plane would do in game.

About the 1000 m. It does not work that way. Above the 1000 m there is no extra boost. So engine should baheve EXACTLY the same. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The only way to get the Tempest to its rated RPM's at any height is to use the boost. Look at the RPM and boost indicator. It doesn't even cruise at the right RPM without the boost.

There is most definately some bug somewhere regarding its boost/rpm/overheat because they don't match up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just forget the bost (ata) gauges and RPM gauges in game. They are uselles. I discovered (in fact was pointed at by others) that recently trying to understand behavior of planes not mathing the ATA shown in gauge at different heights.

FW for example only reaches the speed (so the power) it should do at 2700 whe it reachees near 3k rpm on manual pitch.

AustinPowers_
02-15-2006, 06:10 AM
It's olegs old system of "110%"

Hopefuly in BOB it will be changd so that the throttle is directly connected to the boost we see on the gagues.. without this 100%, 110%, press W carp

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 06:12 AM
The Tempest won't even get near its top speeds and acceleration without the boost and 100%PP though and the guages do match up pefectly with what they should when its running full power and pitch with a SabreIIA i.e. 9lbs boost @3700 rpm. Reduce the pitch reduces the power, revs and speed.

mynameisroland
02-15-2006, 06:13 AM
I had a good sortie with the Tempest last night, again it was on a map called Ardennes on UKD2 where the Allies are fighting Dora 9s, Bf 109 G14s and Bf 190 G10s. I and Xiola among others took off in Rocket equipped Tempests and we headed off to attack V1 launcher sites. We reached the target area and loosed off our rockets , taking out AAA, cars, artillery, Wagon trains ect immediately after out run we were jumped by a high Bf 109 G10. The Bf latched on to Xiola's 6, I worked on to the Bf's 6 in turn and tried to take him off of Xiola. The Bf damaged Xiolas engine with a 108 shell but I knocked him off and severly damaged him. Xiola headed back towards our lines with his heavily damaged fighter and I continued on and headed to their airbase. I saw a Bf 109 below me to my 9 o'clock climbing up to meet me and another much lower Bf 109 to my 3 o'clock. To my 12 I could see the base and a Bf 109 flying at 500 meteres trying to head for home. I decided to ignore the two Bf's trying to sandwich me and I closed the radiator and went to 110% throttle no boost and ran down the Bf 109 who switched his lights on in vain to suggest he should be left alone. I hammered his Bf 109 with 20mm and watched it falter in the air he still tried to make it to the runway and get it down on the ground he was to low to bail. I swooped on and strafed some AAA positions and leveled off at 50m and engaged boost. I managed to persuade the chasing Bf 109's that it was not worth their while to follow me. After a 2 minutes of shallow zoom climbing away from their base, I headed south back to our lines. I spotted one of our Spitfires dogfighting a Bf 109, I joined in and bounced the Bf 109 pummeling its wings with shells ( I never seem to knock of Bf 109's wings ? ) it too pancaked in to the ground and exploded. I headed back to base ammunition expended and engine slightly cooked.

That to me was a good Tempest sortie and one that used the strengths of the type.

Unknown-Pilot
02-15-2006, 07:37 AM
No plane should reach top speeds or max acceleration without max power output (from WEP). This is obvious. Why would it be suggested otherwise?

No plane should go as long as the Spitfire does on WEP without overheating. That plane has been bugged since day one and it has clearly screwed up people's expectations.

The Tempest rocks. Period. Plain and simple. It does NOT have an overheating problem. If someone feels they are experiencing one in it, they are simply not flying it well, or have completely screwed up expectations. There's really no other possibilities.

It can out turn anything it can't out run, and can out run anything it can't out turn. (the turn rate is really suspect with how good it is for it's size and weight, but n/m) It has some of the most brutal firepower available, has probably the best forward visibility (over the nose)(even over planes with MUCH shorter noses), has a really good climb rate, and can drag lots of iron up into the air.

It's the perfect storm. (available to us at least. I've heard of Hurricanes with more power, would *love* to see that, and am a little upset we probably won't be getting the Typhoon)

Xiolablu3
02-15-2006, 07:51 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by OldMan____:
Just try the A5 1.65 ATA. It cant reach 2k without overheat (not zooming of course). Well you should get overheat as 1.65 was restricted to use under 1000m. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Even then the Tempest is still allot worse.

besides, can we drop this red vs blue 'well if my plane does this so should yours ****'? Its really tiresome, especially since not all of us play the red vs blue game. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen o that. I would even say MOST of us dont play that game anymore, thankfully. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif (Brains seem to have grown a little around here.)

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 08:06 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
The Tempest won't even get near its top speeds and acceleration without the boost and 100%PP though and the guages do match up pefectly with what they should when its running full power and pitch with a SabreIIA i.e. 9lbs boost @3700 rpm. Reduce the pitch reduces the power, revs and speed.

like man other planes in game. This is not a solely tempest problem. Many planes have this sort of problem. Just forget what gauges on engine management are saying. Only a few planes have them telling reasonable stuff.

Diablo310th
02-15-2006, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by HellToupee:
the biggest issue is the rear view, most times i get shot down its because im crusing along trying to keep the engine cool and theres some sucker coming up behind me i have no chance of seeing. Compared to the spits excellent rear view and additional mirror. If only u could move ur head the advantages of a bubble canopy might be worth something.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif yeah ...because of the pilots position and view bubble canopies are not the advantage they should be.

WOLFMondo
02-15-2006, 08:15 AM
Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
It does NOT have an overheating problem.

It does overheat quickly, it is a pain too cool down and maintain any performance. This might be historical (I've read only one pilot mentioning this and his Tempest was running at 13lbs boost, 4000rpm), it might not be, either way no other plane overheats as quickly which in turn really limits is potential in a drawn out combat.

I'm not questioning its other facets like turn or climb, just how the overheating affects things like sustained performance.


Originally posted by Unknown-Pilot:
No plane should go as long as the Spitfire does on WEP without overheating. That plane has been bugged since day one and it has clearly screwed up people's expectations.

The Dora and P47D both can use there wep continously at certain heights. The Dora is a dream in regards to this because it overheats slowly and some very small PP adjustments and its happy again.

HellToupee
02-15-2006, 12:03 PM
the dora on full power and wep will actually cool down if you fly fast enough and is easy to cool, tempest after crusing around at 90% open rad pretty much over heats straight away and will overheat quickly without wep on 110% open rad to.

p1ngu666
02-15-2006, 12:44 PM
190s have easy overheat

so in summery, the tempest requires more skill to fly effectivly than dora.

more of a challange http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

OldMan____
02-15-2006, 12:48 PM
use Dora on manual pitch at 90% as well and you will see what overheat is about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

DaimonSyrius
02-15-2006, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
so in summery, the tempest requires more skill to fly effectivly than dora.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Yep, even in wintery, when temperatures are lowery
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,
S.

HellToupee
02-15-2006, 05:32 PM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
use Dora on manual pitch at 90% as well and you will see what overheat is about http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i was referring to 90% throttle not pitch, and i almost always have rad open in temp other than emergencies