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BSS_Vidar
05-11-2005, 08:58 PM
S! all,

The problem Ubisof and 1C about licensing was hard felt in our small community, but even harder in the Plastic Scale Modeling industry. I am an avid modeler and have joined the croud in stomping this problem out at its source. Mr Paul Bower is a well know modeler in IPMS (International Plastic Modelers Society) and is definatly using his influence to stop this problem in the scale modeling community. The success of his "and other" actions will also reflect on my other great pass time of PC Flight Simming. Here is his letter to all Plastic Modelers. I think you'll find it speaks to Simmers as well.

BSS_Vidar
Blacksheep 1


My name is Paul Bauer, and I serve on Congressman Andrews' staff. As you may be aware, Congressman Andrews has been working in support of the modeling industry in an effort to prevent contractors from requiring
licensing and fees for the use of military designs and likenesses. He is planning to offer the attached amendment to the Defense Authorization bill during a markup next week, Wednesday, May 18th, to address this issue.

Again, this amendment would require the Department of Defense to include a provision in their contracts with all defense contractors prohibiting them from requiring licenses and fees from model manufacturers, distributors, or
sellers. Since these vehicles are manufactured at taxpayer expense, and the designations are assigned by the US military, we do not feel that the contractors should be able to require payment for their use, especially in
instances such as these where it has an adverse effect on domestic small businesses.

Mr. Andrews would very much appreciate your assistance in gaining support for this amendment. It would be most helpful if The International Plastic Modelers Society could reach out to Armed Services Cmte Members this week and next week to urge their support, and possibly send out a fax to all cmte Members detailing the importance of this initiative. You can find a list of the cmte Members at

http://armedservices.house.gov/about/members.html>
http://armedservices.house.gov/about/members.html.


Thank you so much for your interest and support. I would appreciate it if you could follow up with me and let me know what, if anything, you can do to help.

Paul Bauer
____________________________________

Paul J. Bauer

Legislative Assistant

Congressman Robert E. Andrews (NJ-01)

2439 Rayburn House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515



Phone (202) 225 6501

BSS_Vidar
05-11-2005, 08:58 PM
S! all,

The problem Ubisof and 1C about licensing was hard felt in our small community, but even harder in the Plastic Scale Modeling industry. I am an avid modeler and have joined the croud in stomping this problem out at its source. Mr Paul Bower is a well know modeler in IPMS (International Plastic Modelers Society) and is definatly using his influence to stop this problem in the scale modeling community. The success of his "and other" actions will also reflect on my other great pass time of PC Flight Simming. Here is his letter to all Plastic Modelers. I think you'll find it speaks to Simmers as well.

BSS_Vidar
Blacksheep 1


My name is Paul Bauer, and I serve on Congressman Andrews' staff. As you may be aware, Congressman Andrews has been working in support of the modeling industry in an effort to prevent contractors from requiring
licensing and fees for the use of military designs and likenesses. He is planning to offer the attached amendment to the Defense Authorization bill during a markup next week, Wednesday, May 18th, to address this issue.

Again, this amendment would require the Department of Defense to include a provision in their contracts with all defense contractors prohibiting them from requiring licenses and fees from model manufacturers, distributors, or
sellers. Since these vehicles are manufactured at taxpayer expense, and the designations are assigned by the US military, we do not feel that the contractors should be able to require payment for their use, especially in
instances such as these where it has an adverse effect on domestic small businesses.

Mr. Andrews would very much appreciate your assistance in gaining support for this amendment. It would be most helpful if The International Plastic Modelers Society could reach out to Armed Services Cmte Members this week and next week to urge their support, and possibly send out a fax to all cmte Members detailing the importance of this initiative. You can find a list of the cmte Members at

http://armedservices.house.gov/about/members.html>
http://armedservices.house.gov/about/members.html.


Thank you so much for your interest and support. I would appreciate it if you could follow up with me and let me know what, if anything, you can do to help.

Paul Bauer
____________________________________

Paul J. Bauer

Legislative Assistant

Congressman Robert E. Andrews (NJ-01)

2439 Rayburn House Office Building

Washington, DC 20515



Phone (202) 225 6501

mortoma
05-11-2005, 09:01 PM
That's good news, I think we all will support that!!!

goshikisen
05-11-2005, 09:15 PM
Everyone here should get behind this...

BSS_Vidar, is there anything a Canadian can do to assist in this process?

Regards, Goshikisen.

jarink
05-11-2005, 09:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Again, this amendment would require the Department of Defense to include a provision in their contracts with all defense contractors prohibiting them from requiring licenses and fees from model manufacturers, distributors, or
sellers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Will this be effective on new contracts only? Hopefully, this bill will include a broad interpretation of 'model', to include plastic, R/C and digital models.

I'm going to start a letter to my congressman right after I'm done with this post!

I urge all other US citizens to do the same.
Write Your Representative (http://www.house.gov/writerep/)

VW-IceFire
05-11-2005, 09:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goshikisen:
Everyone here should get behind this...

BSS_Vidar, is there anything a Canadian can do to assist in this process?

Regards, Goshikisen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Probably not...were that cold country to the north. We don't count for TV ratings and we don't count for politics either I imagine http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

LEBillfish
05-11-2005, 11:03 PM
Done, but via internal means where "pressure" can be applied. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Comswim
05-12-2005, 12:20 AM
AS a Canadian you can also write to congress. Anyone can. This is not only an American Issue but a world issue. The more the merrier. Maybe some of our US brothers can post names of some Congressmen that US non americans can sned a letter to. This way our voice is heard as well. It might put some extra meat on the bone.

Cheers,
BSS_Boxer.
Vancouver BC Canada.

LEBillfish
05-12-2005, 08:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rennyrd2:
It will not help if we send a letter. Democracy is dead in America. ONE DOLLAR = ONE VOTE </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually that is not quite true. Though IMLTHO money drives the machine, you must be part of the machine to get the money. So.........

What that means is keep track of those representitives for you, as in state and district, contact them and tell them what you want then confirm they did so by checking on how they voted or participated in making what you want happen.

If they don't to your satisfaction, then press for their removal. You see, if they are not part of it having lost their job...then they get no money http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Often, those peoples that are elected begin to take on a mindset of "I was hired as the people want to be told what is best for them"....So remind them they are simply "your" messenger/stooge to convey your wants.

Granted, you are only one of many, and the interest of the many oft times should rule. Sometimes the interest of the few important, as it should not matter to the many....

However, when you refuse to handle your representatives, you have just taken yourself out of the loop....At that point, just as when they lose their job, you are at the mercy of the masses.

Theory or actuality?....Little of both I suspect, so why not "force it" to be how you want through legal means.....That is "your right".

Platypus_1.JaVA
05-12-2005, 08:55 AM
Be sure to send a personal mail to Oleg!!

horseback
05-12-2005, 10:03 AM
One bit of advice: most of our representatives in Washington DC are 45+, and traditionally, letters printed on paper and delivered in an envelope have more influence with them, being a tangible evidence of your wishes. One snailmail is worth ten e-mails in this kind of case.

Express yourself clearly and politely. Make no threats. The fact that you care enough about something to write a letter to your Congressman and Senators is evidence enough that you may choose to vote (and make contributions) for someone else based on your elected representatives' reaction to this one issue.

Write a number of other members of Congress, if you feel so inclined. The laws of this country do allow you to contribute to any politician, anywhere in the country, and people who write are treated as potential contributors, as well as an indication of what is on the voters' minds.

Congressman Andrews, along with my state's congressional delegation, will be getting a letter from me that will include a list of the people that I have written to about this subject.

cheers

horseback

Reschke
05-12-2005, 12:40 PM
Honorable Spencer Bachus represents the 6th District of the State of Alabama. I am sure that he would be willing to listen to this issue that other people outside of our nation have with the current licensing and fees requirment. I know from having dealt with the man over thelast few years that he does prefer to have an actual letter but he does read his email everyday and acts on the messages there as well. When looking him up via the site linked earlier just go to his name on the listing by name part.

Eraser_tr
05-12-2005, 01:07 PM
I'm most definitely writting to my congressman to support this. I'm sick and tired of money grubbing corporate lawyers ruining a harmless use of aircraft, beit modeling or games.

Then maybe we can see those nice american planes we all want

AtomicRunt
05-12-2005, 01:27 PM
First I'm getting ahold of Code-Masters to see how they got around the issue...

http://www.codemasters.co.uk/games/index.php?gameid=1769&territory=EnglishUK

Featuring 35 authentic military aircraft, plus more to unlock, prepare to pilot an incredible line-up of US and Japanese planes, including the Grumman F4F Hellcat and F6F Wildcat, the Douglas SBD Dauntless, the Curtiss P-40 Warhawk and the Chance-Vought F4U Corsair.

Reschke
05-12-2005, 01:39 PM
Phone Calls are needed more than letters and emails at this time. In doing a little research on the matter there is a man named Mike Bass who works for Trumpeteer who has mentioned that phone calls are needed since there is very little time before the Defense Authorization Bill is passed through the committee and full Senate.

BSS_Vidar
05-12-2005, 03:47 PM
[Quote]Will this be effective on new contracts only? Hopefully, this bill will include a broad interpretation of 'model', to include plastic, R/C and digital models.[Quote]

This will effect products from now, the past, and future. Putting a stop to all of it here in the States. I'm hereing A/C corperations in Brittan are trying to pull the same ****.

Dew-Claw
05-12-2005, 04:12 PM
I jumped on this months ago
The main arguement is aircraft manufactures can't claim rights because the aircraft were made for the military with public tax money so from day 1 they were in the public domain...
however, if you build Nascar models, they will disapear because every manufacturer of any product depicted in decals will want compensated for the use of images.

Hey guys!
Ever hear of Free advertisment????

PlaneEater
05-12-2005, 04:21 PM
Just left a message on Cathy McMorris' voicemail.

Call and leave civil, well thought out messages, guys. Write out a script and read from it if you need to.

Go down the list and leave messages for everybody on the ASC. The more they hear from us, the better the chances of this going through!

ploughman
05-12-2005, 04:38 PM
Platypus_1.JaVA. The plane in your sig, doth it have a tail wheel well fault or is it supposed to be like that?

Jettexas
05-12-2005, 07:45 PM
Thanks for this thread-
I have done what I need to do and contacted the relevent folks in my neck of the woods.
Back when all of this first started.....

But for those out there who may not yet be moved to action.....

Prior to jumping on this bandwagon-way back when..
I did a lot of googling on this subject and probably followed many of the same leads as the original poster.Frankly I was looking for information, beyond what gets posted as gospel on these forums..(sry..its a company town after all..) that would either confirm or deny this ..because at first glance I was more than a tad skeptical. of this whole story..it just sounded too preposterous...


It seems that what usually occurs is a well meaning person looking for the best source of info for modeling (either in plastic or pixels whatever)calls the source..and tips thier hand.if theyre particularly careless they drop the name of the company thier working for.and makes it easy for the ..raging lawyers...a "cease and desist" comes in the mail..everyone caves instead of fights..(which is the smart move legally)..presto...no planes-

However-What is puzzling to me is that in retracing the course of this research prior to this post-
I discovered at least two companies that are or will shortly be marketing software carrying the "company whose name we do not mention", branded items in thier product..Im curious as well how they got around the issue?

Apparently the fees inolved in securing these rights are exorbidant-
One of the more horrendous things I read in the course of all this surfing was a standard contract(like 4 pages) that is offered to the plastic modeling people that might wish to make model aircraft- from a large north american aerospace company(think Kangaroo/pogo stick/springs) in which they blithely ask as terms for using thier "intellectual property" a 1000$ initial fee,
and then 1.5% of gross retail proceeds from said product!!!! Surely no serious business would willingly fork over 1.5% of proceeds...?! oh and they insist on complete confidentiality regarding the acceptance and terms of the contract so that if you sign it you cant talk about it
.....What gives here? Did these other companies maketing similar products to the one we've been told are now "off the table" bend over and pay or are they operating under the "its better to ask forgiveness than permission principle"? Im really curious..?

Anyway- @ 1.5% of the gross its No wonder then that this strongarm tactic is a deal killer.....
The market itself will eventually rid us of this problem....its anti-money and what is anti money never lasts..but for now..looks like we gotta scrap for it....
Please do your bit.

thanks

Yog_Shoggoth
05-12-2005, 08:22 PM
I wonder how Grumman plans on getting employees in fifteen years...
Grumman: Build military planes for us.
Potential employee: The military has PLANES?! O_o
Seriously, who's going to have the drive to compete in that kind of industry with that much education required if they aren't inspired years earlier by modeling and simming?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by goshikisen:
Everyone here should get behind this...

BSS_Vidar, is there anything a Canadian can do to assist in this process?

Regards, Goshikisen. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Do Canadians have money? If yes than yes. Contribute your heart out.

LuckyBoy1
05-12-2005, 11:07 PM
Uhm, the link is dead, but I'll call you tomorrow.

I tried calling a guy at Lockheed and explain the problem to him. his attitude was...

Oh yeah, and what army is gonna stop us from doing this?

We all need to raise the roof on this one. Copywrite laws and patents were made so those who came up with a better light bulb could be rewarded... not so the whale oil salesmen can keep us in the dark!

Eraser_tr
05-22-2005, 02:58 PM
Does anybody have any new information on this issue, whether the bill passed or not? If so all our content problems would be over immediately.

major_setback
05-22-2005, 04:01 PM
Here's a related thread. A couple of the posts help to shed light on what actually happened between Maddox 1c and Nowthwrop Gwumman.

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9791087223