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View Full Version : Oleg--Request For Improved Camera Controls for Filmmaking



GL2
10-06-2004, 01:44 PM
Oleg,

I realize this is not a high priority right now, but would you please considering giving us at some point improved control of the various in-game view features in PF and BOB? The reason I ask is that there is a small but growing segment of the IL-2 fan base who enjoy making films using captured video from IL-2. Even though the number of filmmakers isn't large, the number of people who watch their movies is, as evidenced by the number of views movie-announcement threads get in the Movie Maker's forum. These films serve as essentially 'free advertising' for the game and help attract new customers. Also, a number of military documentary television programs in the U.S. (and elsewhere, I presume) are using graphics from computer games to recreate battles and events from history for their TV programs. Apparently, Discover Wings is already planning to use IL-2 this way. Improving the flexibility and control of the views in IL-2 will allow filmmakers to create even better-looking films.

Here are some ideas for improvements that would make the job of capturing video much easier for the filmmaker. I don't know how feasible some of these are, but here are some suggestions:

* Add the ability to lower the camera's (screen's) point of view all the way to the ground so that vehicles and taxiing aircraft can drive over the top of the camera. This would allow much better close-up shots of all ground vehicles and taxiing planes.

* Create a 'camera plane' with a no-cockpit view from which we can look in any direction, including straight back. Ideally, such a plane would be 'invisible' to the other AI aircraft (or maybe just €˜friendly€ to all planes) and serve merely as a platform from which to film. One possible solution might be to allow a 'no-cockpit' view for tailgunners. This would essentially accomplish the same thing by allowing the filmmaker to look towards the rear without a cockpit getting in the way.

* Add the ability to preprogram a complex flight path for an AI plane. I was watching a film made using LOMAC (called "Sync20"...I can't find the link to it, unfortunately) and noted that the AI were programmed by the filmmaker to fly various synchronized flight paths. In addition to helping filmmakers, such a feature in PF and BOB would allow us to create some great training scenarios for practice.

* Here is the most difficult request of all--It would be wonderful if we could record a track and then be able to fly the above mentioned 'camera plane' (or any plane, for that matter) while the track is playing without the planes in the recorded track recognizing the presence of the camera plane. In other words, it would be 'invisible' to the planes in the track and allow us to fly around the prerecorded action and capture video without effecting the actions of the planes.

* The last suggestion may not be possible, but the next best thing would be to allow us to set fixed cameras in space (with control of the X, Y and Z axes and the ability to 'look' in any direction) from which to view a prerecorded track. That way, we can fly a mission until we get the action we want, save the track and then go back and set up the camera positions to capture the best video.

*Add the option to map zoom and pan buttons for smoother zooming and panning to avoid the jerky camera movements that come from doing these tasks with a mouse.

Again, Oleg, I realize some of these requests may not be possible, but I hope you will consider making as many improvements as you can. Filmmakers the world over will build a second shrine to you if you help them out with the job of capturing video from PF and BOB. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Thanks!

Fliegeroffizier
10-06-2004, 04:28 PM
These sound like great ideas...I hope some or all of the features can be added to PF and/or Battle of Britain.

I know that Oleg gives serious consideration to good proposals such as this. Way back during the initial IL2 days, I suggested/requested that Oleg add a No-cockpit option with NO Gunsight visible(Real guncam films almost never show the gunsight since guncameras do NOT film 'through' the gunsight)...I asked for this because I had been into the niche-hobby of making simulated guncam films using CFS2 and wanted to be able to do so with IL2. Oleg was nice enough to add that no-cockpit-no-gunsight option in FB (or maybe in a patch to IL2, I don't recall).

NTESLA
10-06-2004, 08:16 PM
Being an avid IL2 movie maker, these tools would help me and others many times over. Making these 'virtual films' will promote the IL2 simulator to a point were more new virtual pilots will want to fly this great sim. Include my vote to add these new features!

Scragbat
10-07-2004, 03:27 AM
All good ideas http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

What I would particularly like to see implemented would be cockpit view for all aircraft on a track (excluding AI of course that have no modelled cockpits).

In the same way that you can press SHIFT+F2 or CTRL+F2 to cycle through friendly/enemy external views, I would like to be able to press SHIFT+F1 or CTRL+F1 for friendly/enemy cockpit views.

This would be a tremendous aid for IL2 movie makers IMO.

I suggest this only for track playback. In online dogfighting or campaigns it could be used unfairly to see what your enemy is seeing...

clint-ruin
10-07-2004, 03:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GL2:
* The last suggestion may not be possible, but the next best thing would be to allow us to set fixed cameras in space (with control of the X, Y and Z axes and the ability to 'look' in any direction) from which to view a prerecorded track. That way, we can fly a mission until we get the action we want, save the track and then go back and set up the camera positions to capture the best video. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried loading the .trk file in Notepad? You will see your mission file at the start in plaintext in the same form as the original .mis file you generated it from [for single player]. You should be able to copy and paste the text of a camera position on a map into a track, since it shouldn't affect how the AI/stick inputs play back.

Don't know if this works for sure, but worth a try.

ST__Pawnee
10-07-2004, 06:50 AM
Great suggestions! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Another idea could be the ability to place cameras around on the planes. F.eks. on top of the rudder, wingtip, next to the cokpit etc.

ST_Pawnee
www.silvertriggers.tk (http://www.silvertriggers.tk)

p1ngu666
10-07-2004, 10:08 AM
i love the camera plane idea
i think a no cockpit, no clipping plane with no guns, would be cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and do able. several maybe needed, with maybe simple fms copied from planes we got. eg a 109f level one, but better turn and climb, 109k again better turn and climb, and a jet one, and finaly some stupendiously fast one http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
all should have airbrakes too, to be able to hover would be cool too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Monty-Dan
10-07-2004, 03:21 PM
Great post GL2 and some good ideas made by others, if we get 50% of what you suggest this would be a fantastic step forward, i am only a newbie in this field, but now an addict, and i do get fustrated with the limited camera views and angles.

If this area could be opened up what a benifit this would bring to the makers which in turn would lead to greater numbers viewing them and more free publicity for the game = everyone happy...so come on Oleg please consider GL2 requests.

WB_Outlaw
10-07-2004, 05:35 PM
Back when I developed the .trk file icon remover it was not possible to modify the mission part of a file. There appears to be a CRC type check in the file. Maybe that has changed now but I doubt it.

I am about to start working on removing icons from .ntrk files, but, I'm not optimistic.

-Outlaw.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clint-ruin:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GL2:
* The last suggestion may not be possible, but the next best thing would be to allow us to set fixed cameras in space (with control of the X, Y and Z axes and the ability to 'look' in any direction) from which to view a prerecorded track. That way, we can fly a mission until we get the action we want, save the track and then go back and set up the camera positions to capture the best video. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Have you tried loading the .trk file in Notepad? You will see your mission file at the start in plaintext in the same form as the original .mis file you generated it from [for single player]. You should be able to copy and paste the text of a camera position on a map into a track, since it shouldn't affect how the AI/stick inputs play back.

Don't know if this works for sure, but worth a try. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GL2
10-07-2004, 05:48 PM
Lots of good ideas have been added. Scragbat, I think yours would be very easy to implement, and I agree that this would be a huge improvement.

I forgot to mention one thing RAF_Blackace suggested at the moviemakers forum(www.blacksheepwebdesign.net/VirtualWarCinema/). He suggested a track system that could be paused and rewinded. I'm not sure if the current track system is capable of that, but perhaps BOB could have that feature added.

clint-ruin
10-07-2004, 08:10 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
Back when I developed the .trk file icon remover it was not possible to modify the mission part of a file. There appears to be a CRC type check in the file. Maybe that has changed now but I doubt it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

****, sorry then. Ntrk could be worth a shot, but have you tried filling in data after changes are made, to make the CRC stay the same? IE, say, have the X axis on a stick undefined but moving and throwing data into the trk, but not bound to any function? Most safedisc cracks seem to work in the same way these days.

Mysticpuma2003
10-08-2004, 02:40 AM
I'd like to see a 'bomb camera' option, to track weaponry down to it's target. I think the X,Y,Z option means that a camera could be lifted from it's point where it was placed and then moved around so that it can be fixed in another place, and then used? Good idea if that's what it is. I'd also like to see an automatic gun-cam track captured, to save cycling the views and re-running the track for capture. And finally, and absolutely a must in a future patch is to have static aircraft and ground vehicles etc, have more than one animation cycle from intact to destroyed. Give us a bit of damage modelling on them PLEASE!
That's about the long and short of it, cheers, Neil.

tHeBaLrOgRoCkS
10-08-2004, 04:30 AM
Sounds like a good Idea.
Gets my vote

TS_Quixote
10-11-2004, 01:14 PM
My Add to the above..

- frame by frame view ability

- reverse play, with frame by frame, 1/2 and 1/4 speed. (if this is already possible I dont know how to do it)

- Manual Pan and Zoom controls (keys) that allow a smooth zoom in/out(slow/fast) and pan left/right (slow/fast)

- ability to manually edit tracks and tie only certain parts together, and from different tracks (an editor)

- off set camera as sugested above: abilty to offset a camera from a plane and rotate it freely

and....

the abilty to manually anchor that camera postion down while playing a track (free space camera the originating plane will fly by)

- ability to name a track after capturing it, and/or rename it from within the IL2 track list menu

TS_Quixote

Thegreatmarvin
10-13-2004, 05:12 PM
I am totally for this. I don't think that the camera plane shold be say a ME, but just an airframe with no drag and perfect flight characteristcs (and of course wont be for fighting, just filming) and the throttle would detirmine the speed.

If all these requests were implimented, than anybody who owns the game could make good movies, and the real people will make INSANE ones!

A Loyal Subject of the Sturmovik,


-Marvin

Mysticpuma2003
10-14-2004, 09:51 AM
OH MY!!!! How could I forget this......The ability to remove icons from and.ntrk file (and TRK), maybe a switch on the play track option that says "Icons On/Off", so that we can get rid of icons which have been recorded by mistake (Oh the suffering this has caused).

BUMP!!!!!

File_404
10-15-2004, 10:26 AM
BUMP
Like Quixote said, something like a remote control (play, FFW, REW, stop...) could be really useful.
Better controls for better movies

GL2
10-25-2004, 05:12 AM
One more--give us the same external view options for ground objects as we have for planes. I've seen some good LOMAC films that make use of this, but such shots would be impossible in IL-2 currently.

Brutal67
12-13-2004, 05:03 PM
Oleg the work that these guys have done has been absolutely amazing and has even prompted me into putting togeather a few movies. I would like to see many of these ideas implemented if it would at all be possible.

RAF-Blackace
12-13-2004, 05:13 PM
S!

Oleg, these guys are right, the spin offs and interest this media format is making is improving all the time.

Its time you thought about what impact they are having on your games.

It cant be hard to give them what they want without detracting from the game playability. If there is no possibilty of doing this in PF then please consider it in BOB.

Remember, any publicity is good publicity, some of these films are being submitted to film critics who know nothing of the gaming genre. This could grow into a whole new media format and might be the way forward for out of pocket serious directors. Even TV companies might catch onto the idea and make a short about this new genre.

That kind of publicity you could not afford.

Come on Oleg, help us, help you.

Mjollnir111675
12-13-2004, 07:14 PM
Bump fer guncam!!!

Mysticpuma2003
12-16-2004, 04:29 AM
Well here's another thought, we can scroll through cockpit views, so that it becomes invisible, how about using the f2 view for an external shot, we can scroll through views so that our own plane becomes invisible (obviously only on track playback!). This would allow some good 'dolly' shots and also bomb-cam views because at the moment without a bomb-bay view, the plane obscures the bombs.

Mysticpuma2003
12-18-2004, 01:58 AM
I don't think this should drop off the first page