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View Full Version : OT - End of the World May 21, 2011?



cgkstealth
05-16-2011, 06:09 PM
I heard about this the other day on the radio and just had to investigate more about it. Long and short Judgement Day is believed (by some) to be on May 21, 2011.
Yes my fellow skippers, that is this Saturday.

So I was wondering what you fellas might have to say about this. I'm not one to go into religious beliefs, have arguments etc, but I have my thoughts in line.

If any of you are wanting more info about this event (whether it be true or not) you can read about it at http://www.familyradio.com/gra...dgment/judgment.html (http://www.familyradio.com/graphical/literature/judgment/judgment.html)

Again, I'm not trying to instigate an argument about it, just wondering what you fellas might (or might not) think about it.

Blowtanks
05-16-2011, 06:37 PM
I say it's all a crock of BS.
I will however be spending the entire day indoors. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

pnwdom
05-16-2011, 06:37 PM
I won't get the call.

But I will take all you stuff if you think your going...... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

fireftr18
05-16-2011, 07:13 PM
When I went back to school for sports medicine, I took a Bible class as an elective. One of the requirements of the class was a research paper. I chose to do "the end of the world." After all was said and done, my conclusion was that there is no way anyone could predict when the end of the world will be. I wish not to expand on it right now because I am not properly prepared and start rambling. If you have a question, I'll be happy to answer. I'll have to dig out my notes first.

WernherVonTrapp
05-16-2011, 08:33 PM
OK, but remember, you asked. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
-Mark 13:32

b34856
05-16-2011, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:

"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
-Mark 13:32

denis4510
05-16-2011, 11:36 PM
I heard it was 22nd or 24th December 2012 or then again maybe it was yesterday - all a crock as someone says.

EDIT: I note at the end of that page - "May God have mercy on you as He did on this publican."
It's obvious - he owns a pub and wants everyone to order last drinks! I'm in for that! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

EDIT 2: Thus should I bother getting the car fixed tomorrow or should I save the money?

Celeon999
05-17-2011, 02:29 AM
We will see if the Maya calendar nutters are smarter than the Nostradamus nutters who translate french in whatever way its suits them so they can claim he foretold ww2 and 9/11,...which he definitely never did. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

They just take his cryptic writings , then bend and deform or deliberately translate them just the way they want instead of the way the french language demands it until it slightly fits some happening in world history. Then they claim that he foretold it.

For instance :

Nostradamus mentions the word "Hister" in connection with Germany and something that will bring great misery to "many people".
Of course the nutters say : "Hey !.. Hister ! He meant Hitler !" and simply translate "many people" to "the world" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

But he did not wrote "the world" nor did he wrote Hitler but Hister. Hister is the latin name of the river Donau. And completely by chance of course, this river is in Germany. Which may explain why he mentioned both. And by chance, the Donau was and always will be the source of highwater catastrophies. Wait.... i feel a vision coming..... there will be highwater in Germany at some point in the future ! And it will come from the river Donau ! Just like it did hundreds of times during histoy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Then he wrote something about a great catastrophy that will hit the "new city". "Its towers will shake and fall and this will bring great fear"
Of course, thats New York and towers are the World Trade Center. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Beside the simple fact that New City can refer to thousands of cities around the world which carry that name, it is more than likely that he simply meant Naples in Italy (which derives from nao polis, greek for "New City") and a very important metropolis in the times during which Nostradamus lived.
Did i mention that Naples lies in a earthquake zone and experienced hundreds of devastating quakes in its history ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wow that must have been really hard for Nostradamus to figure out that Naples will be hit by earthquake one day. It just happened many times before so no one needs to be a rocket scientists to foretell that it will be hit again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Ah yes. Almost forgot. He also foretold the end of the world ! At least thats what the nutters believe to read out of one of his four liners.

The world ended in June of 1999. Just in case you didnt knew that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Afterwards, his fans believed it was just a slight translation and interpretation error and corrected the date to some day in 2004 and afterwards to 2006.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Some "torah and bible code" "expert" from Israel confirmed the date 2006 in 2003. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif So much for that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

At the moment, i believe they have no new date at all as the limits of bending and interpretation just do not go beyond 2006 without lying or rewriting that four liner, no matter how hard one tries. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Have i mentioned that the Maya calendar does actually NOT end on what is December 21, 2012 in the roman calendar ?
In fact it just ends an important cycle and moves on to a new one.

From wikipedia :


There are also four rarely used higher-order cycles: piktun, kalabtun, k'inchiltun, and alautun.

Since the Long Count dates are unambiguous, the Long Count was particularly well suited to use on monuments. The monumental inscriptions would not only include the 5 digits of the Long Count, but would also include the two tzolk'in characters followed by the two haab' characters.

Misinterpretation of the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar is the basis for a New Age belief that a cataclysm will take place on December 21, 2012. December 21, 2012 is simply the day that the calendar will go to the next b'ak'tun.

Sandra Noble, executive director of the Mesoamerican research organization FAMSI, notes that "for the ancient Maya, it was a huge celebration to make it to the end of a whole cycle". She considers the portrayal of December 2012 as a doomsday or cosmic-shift event to be "a complete fabrication and a chance for a lot of people to cash in."[14] The 2009 science fiction apocalyptic disaster film 2012 is based on this belief.

denis4510
05-17-2011, 03:47 AM
God
said, 'Adam, I
Want you to do
Something for
Me.'

Adam
said, 'Gladly,
Lord, what do You
Want me to do?'


God
said, 'Go down
Into that
valley.'

Adam said, 'What's
a Valley?'

God explained it to

Him. Then God said,
'Cross the
river.'

Adam said, 'What's a
River?'

God explained that
To him, and then said,
'Go over to the
hill....'

Adam said, 'What is a
Hill?'


So, God explained to
Adam what a hill was.
He told Adam, 'On
The
other side of the
Hill you will find a
Cave.'


Adam said, 'What's a
Cave?'

After God explained,
He
said, 'In the cave
You will find a woman.'


Adam said, 'What's a
Woman?'

So God explained
That to him, too.
Then, God said, 'I
Want you
to
Reproduce.'

Adam said, 'How do
I do
that?'

God first said (under
His breath), 'Geez.....'

And then,
just like Everything else, God Explained that to
Adam, as
well.

So, Adam goes down
Into
the valley,

Across the river, and
Over the hill,
into the
Cave, and finds the
Woman.

Then, in
about five Minutes, he was back.

God,
His patience
Wearing thin, said
Angrily, 'What is
it
Now?'

And Adam said....


*

*


(YOU'RE GOING TO
LOVE
THIS!!!!!!)

*

*


*

*

*

'What's a
headache?'

denis4510
05-17-2011, 03:50 AM
Thought to add a bit of insanity to this discussion:


For two years a man was having an affair with an Italian woman.
>
> One night, she confided in him that she was pregnant. Not wanting
> to ruin his reputation or his marriage, he paid her a large sum of
> money if she would go to Italy to secretly have the child. If she
> stayed in Italy to raise the child, he would also provide child
> support until the child turned 18.
>
> She agreed, but asked how he would know when the baby was born. To
> keep it discrete, he told her to simply mail him a post card, and
> write 'Spaghetti' on the back. He would then arrange for the child
> support payments to begin.
>
> One day, about 9 months later, he came home to his
> confused wife.
>
> 'Honey,' she said, 'you received a very strange post card today.'
>
> 'Oh, just give it to me; and I'll explain it later,' he said. The
> wife obeyed and watched as her husband read the card, turned white,
> and fainted.
>
> On the card was written:
>
> Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti, Spaghetti.
>
> Three with meatballs, two without.
>
> Send extra sauce.
-----------------------------------------

A hooded armed robber bursts into the Bank of Italy and forces the
> tellers to load a sack full of cash.
>
> On his way out the door with the loot, one brave customer grabs the
> hood and pulls it off, revealing the robber's face.
>
> The robber shoots the guy dead without hesitation!
>
> He then looks around the bank to see if anyone else has seen him.
> He sees one of the tellers looking straight at him; the robber walks
> over and calmly shoots him dead.
>
> Everyone by now is very scared and looking down at the floor.
>
> "Dida anyone elsa see a my face?" calls the robber.
>
> There follows a tense silence.
>
> Then an elderly Italian gent, looking down, tentatively raises his
> hand and says:
>
> "I tinka my wife caught a glimpse."

denis4510
05-17-2011, 03:54 AM
Frankly I must add that if it does end on Saturday - which world time is it and do I have to pay my bills first?

Wolferz
05-17-2011, 05:16 AM
Mr Camping has already been wrong a couple of times. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But this time he's taken it on the road and put up billboards so, he has to be right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

WernherVonTrapp
05-17-2011, 05:28 AM
Originally posted by Wolferz:
Mr Camping has already been wrong a couple of times. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But this time he's taken it on the road and put up billboards so, he has to be right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif It's sad really. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif I know a little about his personal life and suppose it might explain a little about why he seems to be going off the deep end. He's related to my ex-wife. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I don't think he's even aware of the damage he's doing. There was actually a time, once, when he was a stable and learned man, even though I never fully agreed with his perspectives, even back then. It's a long story.

Wolferz
05-17-2011, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wolferz:
Mr Camping has already been wrong a couple of times. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif But this time he's taken it on the road and put up billboards so, he has to be right. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif It's sad really. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif I know a little about his personal life and suppose it might explain a little about why he seems to be going off the deep end. He's related to my ex-wife. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

I don't think he's even aware of the damage he's doing. There was actually a time, once, when he was a stable and learned man, even though I never fully agreed with his perspectives, even back then. It's a long story. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Apparently he isn't learned enough... yet. I feel for the guy, I truly do. We can only hope that he doesn't drown in the deep end where he jumped in. Beware false prophets and their prophecies.

MWolfe1963
05-17-2011, 07:12 AM
Maybe I should play more Left for Dead with my son to start preparing.

fireftr18
05-17-2011, 10:23 AM
Celeon, you brought up something I found in my research. The writings (properly called Quatrains) of Nostradamus are so vague that anyone can interpret them to mean anything they want. I didn't even think about the language translation.
Their's another "nutter" theory. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gifIt's called the "7,000 year plan. If you google it, you'll find more info on it than you want. The basic concept is that each day of the Biblical account of creation refers to a 7,000 year period. According to the theory, we are about to end "the sixth day, creation of man." And it happens to coincide with the Mayan calendar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Blowtanks
05-17-2011, 01:09 PM
Well the Bible does say that one day equals a thousand years to God, <span class="ev_code_RED">2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.</span> But I have never heard that it coincides with the Mayan calendar. In fact, I'm sure it does not.
The Mayan calendar simply ends a "time period" in December 2012. That was so far out to them that they never needed to go any farther. They never intended that the world would end on that day. Only that another time period would begin. The "nut cases" decided that that was the end of time. The Mayans would laugh at such an idea.

Wolferz
05-17-2011, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by Blowtanks:
Well the Bible does say that one day equals a thousand years to God, <span class="ev_code_RED">2Pe 3:8 But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.</span> But I have never heard that it coincides with the Mayan calendar. In fact, I'm sure it does not.
The Mayan calendar simply ends a "time period" in December 2012. That was so far out to them that they never needed to go any farther. They never intended that the world would end on that day. Only that another time period would begin. The "nut cases" decided that that was the end of time. The Mayans would laugh at such an idea. You are correct sir. Dec 2012 is merely the end of a Baktun, My guess is that the Spanish Conquistadors were wiping them off the map and integrating them before they had a chance to create the calender for the next Baktun. Being good Christians and all that, the Spaniards would naturally see the Mayan calender as a load of hoo doo voo doo and the Mayans suited only for conversion or usurpation.
It's sad really. The Mayans could have taught the Europeans a thing or three about celestial mechanics and time keeping.

Jose.MaC
05-17-2011, 05:35 PM
Seems that the Spanish felt unconfortable with people whose gods asqued frequent human sacrifices. Nasty prejudiced people.

Do not forget that the Greeks had a theory fundamentally correct about lunar eclipses, but never felt particularly inclined to calculate their frequency with an acurate precision. Other civilizations in the area, without having a clear understanding of celestial mechanics, developed computer systems that allowed them to predict eclipses with more than decent precision.

Conclusion: you don't need an accurate picture of cosmology to make a precise calculation. Just frequent observations and some ad hoc hypotesis.

Celeon999
05-20-2011, 11:56 AM
In case that the upcoming apocalypse tomorrow should be a communist Zombieclypse , you will thank me for having pointed you towards this u.s civil defense film :

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

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MWolfe1963
05-20-2011, 12:35 PM
No more zombies for me. I played Left For Dead with my son and shot them for almost 4 hours s8 the other day, enough for me for a month anyway.

WernherVonTrapp
05-20-2011, 02:45 PM
Well, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it. However, expect more tornadoes, flooding, hurricanes and maybe even an earthquake here in the U.S. because Obama is meddling in Israeli affairs again. Can you imagine the audacity of Obama to try and pressure Israel into withdrawing to the prewar 1967 borderlines?

This is a quote from Oklahoma's News6:
"Obama endorsed Palestinians' demands for the borders of its future state based on 1967 borders - before the Six Day War in which Israel occupied East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza. That was a significant shift in U.S. foreign policy."

Yeah, I'd say Obama threw them under the bus too. Israel is attacked through no provocation of it's own, other than it merely exists, and after beating the attackers back from their original borders, they're expected to give the land back?!

Anyway, I'm not saying that all these natural phenomenon are because of Obama. It's just been my personal observation that a correlation exists between U.S. policy toward Israel and some of these disastrous weather patterns.

"But I will defend my house against marauding forces. Never again will an oppressor overrun my people, for now I am keeping watch."
-Zechariah 9:8

fireftr18
05-20-2011, 03:42 PM
Now I have to keep an eye out for evil communist zombies as well as the everyday zombies. The world is getting way too ccmplicated. I think it's a plot started by the Mayans. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
btw, Celeon, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Wolferz
05-20-2011, 03:59 PM
Last shopping day before the apocalypse.

10% off our entire inventory...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

WernherVonTrapp
05-20-2011, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by Wolferz:
Last shopping day before the apocalypse.

10% off our entire inventory...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Now there's an idea!http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-think004.gif Now you know that somewhere, somebody had to advertise something like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Blowtanks
05-20-2011, 06:37 PM
And if whatever date going around does not suit you, wait a while, a new date is coming. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Along with a new book, a new movie, a new cd, a new tv program, a new pair of End of the World Pajamas..... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

denis4510
05-20-2011, 07:07 PM
Well it's Sat 31st here 11am and I am not getting out of my pyjamas just in case - nothing has happened yet! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tambor198
05-20-2011, 08:15 PM
All I know is I have a tee time on Monday, I don't intend to miss it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cgkstealth
05-20-2011, 08:16 PM
Yea, today at school I heard that the reported "End of the World" is going to occur at 1AM Sat. May 21st, not sure which timezone though. But, in the rare event that it does occur, I have about 2hrs and 45min left (again assuming everything is based off of my timezone).

Celeon999
05-21-2011, 12:32 AM
May 21st, not sure which timezone though.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Trust me, Camping doesnt know either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Did you know that this is his second end-of-the-world prediction ? Last time he was absolutely sure the world would end in 1994. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Tomorrow he will come up with a new date and his loco followers will not even dare to question him or themselves and give him another 100 million dollars in donations over the coming years. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Only in America. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Over here, people like him would never manage to get more than 3 followers and 15 Euros in donations , annualy http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif


Although, there is a comparable orthodox sect in Russia. But they have only around 12 members who dug themselves into a hole a few years back. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

We've left that peticular phase behind us after the end of the Middle Ages. ... Ok , at least the majority of us did. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Rick_1105
05-21-2011, 02:03 AM
OMG I hope we dont get raptured just yet. I have not completed my current campaign in SH4 yet.

Celeon999
05-21-2011, 04:35 AM
I should be fair and mention that other countries in the world still have similar old fashioned problems. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

P.s : The look of the two roman legionaries in the end is priceless. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

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WernherVonTrapp
05-21-2011, 07:54 AM
If it shows anything, it shows that even a large number of Christians are not reading, or are not aware of what The Good Book says.
Mark 13:32 (alone) should've laid it to rest for them.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused005.gif

Celeon999
05-21-2011, 10:09 AM
Eight minutes past X-hour ...... Anyone "raptured" yet ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Earthquakes ? Zombies ? Cats and dogs living with each other ? Anything ? Come on guys, at least some frogs raining down from the sky or something ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

What kind of an odd apocalypse is this ?

Ive spent the last minutes of earth on the toilet but when i saw that i was NOT even out of paper, i knew this hellfire end of days thing would be a massive disappointment. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

MWolfe1963
05-21-2011, 11:24 AM
Guess we're still a few still here.

Just another scam for attention and money, he knows what he's doing...suckers.

cmdrmoosicvs
05-21-2011, 12:45 PM
What if...just maybe... the rapture happened, but no one on earth was fit to go to heaven. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Celeon999
05-21-2011, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by cmdrmoosicvs:
What if...just maybe... the rapture happened, but no one on earth was fit to go to heaven. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif


Now that would be hugely embarrasing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Wolferz
05-21-2011, 01:10 PM
Originally posted by cmdrmoosicvs:
What if...just maybe... the rapture happened, but no one on earth was fit to go to heaven. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Then we're all going to hell to shake hands with all of our friends.

The last blurb I read about it...stated that the beginning of the end would occur with a big earthquake in California at 6PM PDT, So we have a few hours to go shopping for a new sports car and not need to worry about the payments. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

pnwdom
05-21-2011, 01:11 PM
I didn't get raptured.

But I did survive a hedgehog attack, so I'm pretty elated.

cgkstealth
05-21-2011, 04:37 PM
Well, it's 6:34PM here (EST) and nothing has happened yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

For the heck of it, I just tried to load up www.familyradio.com (http://www.familyradio.com) just to see what is being said. Strangely enough (ok, not really) the webpage is unreachable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Out of fairness I've tried reloading it a number of times over the past few minutes, but nothing so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

tambor198
05-21-2011, 04:44 PM
I'm in the Central Time Zone, twenty minutes to go. Actually, two hours and twenty minutes to go. That's when I get off work tonight.

I've got a 16 year old bottle of single malt scothch waiting for me at home, that will be my rapture for the night. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Anti_Ship_Fella
05-21-2011, 04:54 PM
Hehe
Look at the graphic on the bottom,When do the quakes start

Linky (http://en.vedur.is/earthquakes-and-volcanism/earthquakes/#view=map)

I still call bull**** because the guy said christmas islands are going to go first http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Wolferz
05-21-2011, 08:21 PM
10:15 PM EDT here & nada yet, though it was reported @ three hours ago that another one of Iceland's volcanos near reykjavic erupted, sending an ash plume seven miles into the atmo.

denis4510
05-21-2011, 09:09 PM
Sunday here reading the current news in the paper and still here http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

cgkstealth
05-21-2011, 10:05 PM
Happy to report in that it is now 12:05AM Sunday morning in beautiful Ohio, USA and nothing is out of the ordinary here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I suppose now that Mr. Camping's next "End of the World" prediction will almost have to be right. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif
I mean so far he is 0/2 and like they always say, "Third time is a charm." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Blowtanks
05-21-2011, 10:37 PM
Thankfully there's still time, I haven't mastered Falcon 4 Allied Force yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Celeon999
05-22-2011, 01:33 AM
Originally posted by cgkstealth:
Well, it's 6:34PM here (EST) and nothing has happened yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif

For the heck of it, I just tried to load up www.familyradio.com (http://www.familyradio.com) just to see what is being said. Strangely enough (ok, not really) the webpage is unreachable. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Out of fairness I've tried reloading it a number of times over the past few minutes, but nothing so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Thats propably just because the webserver and webmaster got raptured. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Wolferz
05-22-2011, 05:06 AM
What's on the horizon now?

The big cataclysm of Dec 21,2012? Which I have also read a report that this will actually begin to occur in October of this year and climax in 2012.

Well, if I had a job,I woudn't quit and head for the hills. I won't be wiping my hard drive or any other act of erasing my existence from big brother.

Right about now, Mr Camping has probably realized that he was wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Only God knows the hour of the beginning of the Apocalypse and he isn't talking.
I keep my clothing close at hand for that fateful hour to arrive and I'm ready to join the army of Christ. Ready to ride into the valley of Armageddon with a sword of truth in my hand to slay the evildoers who remain. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif
I pity those who don't know my Captain, my king... Christ everlasting.

MWolfe1963
05-22-2011, 07:50 AM
He posted a youtube apology, blaming all his mistakes on..you got it...Satan. Satan screwed up his math, etc...

He did say he was retiring.

Wolferz
05-22-2011, 07:57 AM
Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
He posted a youtube apology, blaming all his mistakes on..you got it...Satan. Satan screwed up his math, etc...

He did say he was retiring.

I wish him God speed. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Celeon999
05-22-2011, 10:24 AM
Seriously ?

Some people really have an excuse for every mistake they do. So it wasnt him but Satan now ?

This man is so pathetic. If his naive followers do not make up their minds now and leave his nonsense behind them, then really nobody can help them.
Some of them quit their jobs and spent all their savings just because of someone who now says "Oooops sorry. But afterall its not even really my fault you know. Satan is to blame. Im not a crazy old man who believes in rediculous secret math messages from god hidden in my alphabet soup but Satan lets me look like i am one. P.S: Im looking forward to you next donation"

cmdrmoosicvs
05-22-2011, 10:41 AM
What a lame excuse. The flaw in his logic,(for blaming Satan), as I see it, is this. Seems to me Satan has tried to get "Neeners" on God from the beginning. So, would'nt it make sense to allow this crackpot to actually succeed in his quest to predict the Rapture? If the bible says no one will know when it's gonna happen, would'nt Satan,(who by the way has zero power over the faithful) try to fulfill success in the prediction? I guess I pointed out two flaws at the same time without even thinking. I guess maybe God guided me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

WernherVonTrapp
05-22-2011, 11:05 AM
I hold my tongue. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

Celeon999
05-22-2011, 11:44 AM
I TAKE EVERYTHING BACK ! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

CAMPING WAS RIGHT AFTERALL ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

There is a town in California with the rediculous name Studio ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif... where the Rapture is actually really ongoing ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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Wolferz
05-22-2011, 12:17 PM
Beware the wolves in sheeps clothing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif


Judge not lest ye be judged. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LaraManey
05-22-2011, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Wolferz:
10:15 PM EDT here & nada yet, though it was reported @ three hours ago that another one of Iceland's volcanos near reykjavic erupted, sending an ash plume seven miles into the atmo.


Yes you are right one of Vatnajökull (Water glacier) volcanoes erupted, It is a big eruption but it will most likely not affect air traffic as much as Eyjafjallajökull (Island mountain glacier) did.

Celeon999
05-24-2011, 11:10 AM
And the show goes on ...


On May 23, 2011 in an appearance before the press, Camping stated he has reinterpreted his prophecy.
In his revised claim, May 21 was a "spiritual" judgment day, and the world will still come to an end October 21, 2011.
Camping said his company would not return money donated by followers to publicize the failed May 21 prediction. "We’re not at the end. Why would we return it?"

WernherVonTrapp
05-24-2011, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Celeon999:
And the show goes on ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> On May 23, 2011 in an appearance before the press, Camping stated he has reinterpreted his prophecy.
In his revised claim, May 21 was a "spiritual" judgment day, and the world will still come to an end October 21, 2011.
Camping said his company would not return money donated by followers to publicize the failed May 21 prediction. "We’re not at the end. Why would we return it?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>He'd better be very careful now. Not only is he discrediting Christianity and making us looks like wackos, but he's also skirting that very fine gray area between what is legal and what is criminal.
Nowhere in The Bible is there a decipherable code that can lend a date to the Lords return. The end times are not the same as Judgement Day. They are both uniquely different. Just like an approaching storm is uniquely different from the actual storm itself, or birth contractions from the actual birth..
I will pray for him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

nvrsummer2
05-24-2011, 12:12 PM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Celeon999:
And the show goes on ...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> On May 23, 2011 in an appearance before the press, Camping stated he has reinterpreted his prophecy.
In his revised claim, May 21 was a "spiritual" judgment day, and the world will still come to an end October 21, 2011.
Camping said his company would not return money donated by followers to publicize the failed May 21 prediction. "We’re not at the end. Why would we return it?" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>He'd better be very careful now. Not only is he discrediting Christianity and making us looks like wackos, but he's also skirting that very fine gray area between what is legal and what is criminal.
Nowhere in The Bible is there a decipherable code that can lend a date to the Lords return. The end times are not the same as Judgement Day. They are both uniquely different. Just like an approaching storm is uniquely different from the actual storm itself, or birth contractions from the actual birth..
I will pray for him. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now THERES a rational religious person. Doesnt the bible say NO ONE will know when judgement day is coming. Why dont people discredit this wacko and move on. He got more press, and money than he should have.

Celeon999
05-24-2011, 01:56 PM
This whole Bible code thing is just plainly rediculous in my eyes anyway.

Im certainly not an expert on the christian faith but as far as i know the bible is a compendium whichs content of stories and accounts were written down by multiple persons which lived in different times over a huge timespan. Nothing of it was written by god or his son themselves.

Like it is with any story, stories changes a small bit with everyone who carries it on to another.

At some point some of the many accounts and stories surrounding the christian faith were bound together to form the bible which was then in turn revised many times over the centuries. Some stories where thrown out, others were taken in which weren't part of the bible in the beginning. Often simply because some accounts contradicted each other.

So some simpletons like you and me decided which of two accounts they liked better or considered more believable and simply threw the other one out.

One became truth, the other became false and was forgotten.
Which means the bible was "adjusted" many times to suit the historical circumstances, changes in perception, personal preferences of influential clerics and the preferences of the general mainstream of the faith at that time. Thats just normal. All religions underwent such changes and adjusted themselves. Differences over such revisions and reinterpretations often even led to violent disagreements and war amongst christians.

The jump from the old to the new testament is just one of these many changes it underwent.

What it is now is with a high propability totally different from what it was in its very first edition.

So even if one really wants to believe that all these people who never met each other and wrote parts of the bible in different times and about things they often havent even experienced themselves, created some highly sophisticated code and hid it among the words...... this code would be undecodable anymore , and that already since centuries !


What reason should they have had anyway ? Of what use would that secret knowledge be to the believer ? Nothing at all.

To me it rather seems that certain christians like Mr.Camping are not satisfied with what their holy writing and their faith gives them.
They cannot gain enough answers out of it as they would like get so they enhance their faith with their own personal revision of things and put some divine code between the lines that gives them exactly what they want to have. Simply as they cannot change the words themselves.

So if the bible does not tell them when his kingdom comes, they simply make the bible say it to them. I would consider this being a strong sign for a serious lack of faith they just cannot admit to themselves.

WernherVonTrapp
05-24-2011, 03:46 PM
You bring up a very interesting and reasonable point Celeon. Now, Historians, Archeologists and the like, for the most part, will not look at The Bible as anything more than a religious book. In fact, the 4 Gospels of the New Testament is a compilation of historical, eyewitness accounts that was (actually) written by non-believers.

One of the things I've come to appreciate in my line of work is the questioning of eyewitnesses to an event or crime. As unique as our personalities are, no two people will view things in the same way. Every witness will have some of their attention drawn to specific points in an event. Some will gather small details that others will miss and vice-versa. This is natural, completely normal and totally expected by an experieced law enforcement officer/investigator. Still, among all thiose witnesses, the heart of the act or event that they saw remains consistent, despite the differences in some of the smaller details scattered among the viewers.

I'm being extra careful in explaining here because I don't want to be misunderstood about a word that I'm about to use.
Corroboration is what law enforcement, (as well as Historians, Archeologists, Geologists and Astrophysicists) look for in verifying their work. You may have subtle differences in some minor details but the major part of the story remains and paints a clear enough picture for all to see regarding the event that transpired.

I have found this to be the case in the New Testament. Four eyewitnesses, not yet biased by a religious belief, seeing an event so remarkable that they felt compelled to write it all down. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are indeed historical, eyewitness accounts and fit every criteria for such. They are also remarkably accurate in their corroboration. And, we cannot forget Paul's (Paul was a persecutor of the first Christians) eyewitness account when he was thrown from his horse on the way to Damascus.

All early writings, unearthed, translated but rejected by man's alleged wisdom. I do not place my faith in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@nvrsummer2:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
-Mark 13:32
This is but one reference. There are others. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To me, the proof is in the force that fights against God. "For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction."
Newton didn't create that law, he merely discovered and explained it. God created the laws of physics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

fireftr18
05-24-2011, 04:29 PM
Celeon, you are quite perceptive. You gave a good, although, simplistic explanation of how the Bible was written and compiled. Going to Catholic school, I have had some in depth study of the Bible, and a Bible class in college added to that. Some was written after centuries of verbal repetition. Some was written as it happened. Some of it is just simply documents. Some was written as eyewitness accounts years after the fact. And some of it was written not as historical stories, but for inspiration or advice. You forgot, different parts of the Bible was written in different languages and dialects. There are a lot of changes when it is translated, especially when translated through multiple languages. You're right, to think that a bunch of people, centuries apart, different languages and cultures, put in some kind of coordinated code that works in any language is just ludicrous(sp). I was taught not to believe the specifics of the writings, but the general meaning. There are accounts in the Bible describing the "end times," they are descriptive, easily interpreted and make absolutely no mention or hint of date, or time period except, "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." -Mark 13:32(Thanks Wernher)

WernherVonTrapp
05-24-2011, 04:52 PM
@fireftr18:
Catholic grammer and HS right here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif Although I'm still a member of a local Catholic parish (for my children's sake - it's a long explanation), I consider myself non-denominational. To me, religion is man's way of trying to reach out to God. Christianity is God reaching out to man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

lane2512
05-24-2011, 05:20 PM
No wonder I missed it. I thought they said "rupture" and I ran like hell away from the party.

Rick_1105
05-24-2011, 09:25 PM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
@firefty18:
Catholic grammer and HS right here. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif Although I'm still a member of a local Catholic parish (for my children's sake - it's a long explanation), I consider myself non-denominational. To me, religion is man's way of trying to reach out to God. Christianity is God reaching out to man. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

So true, my friend. Christiantity is not a religion. It is a way of life http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Rick_1105
05-24-2011, 09:42 PM
What is that nutcase doing? If he is a man of God and knows his bible, he would know it says that the day and time is unknown... even to the Son of God. Does this guy think he has some knowledge that even Jesus doesnt have?

What I really find sad with this story is that there are actually people out there that believe him. That old fart is just putting fear into people. He should be locked away. How many times is this guy going to cry wolf before people start to see him for what he is -- a fraud and con artist. What excuse will he use in October when the rapture doesnt happen then? I dont wish bad on anyone but I think a Navy Seal should put a bullet through this guys head.

I predict Judgement Day will come sometime between now and the end of time as we know it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/halo.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Rick_1105
05-24-2011, 09:50 PM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
You bring up a very interesting and reasonable point Celeon. Now, Historians, Archeologists and the like, for the most part, will not look at The Bible as anything more than a religious book. In fact, the 4 Gospels of the New Testament is a compilation of historical, eyewitness accounts that was (actually) written by non-believers.

One of the things I've come to appreciate in my line of work is the questioning of eyewitnesses to an event or crime. As unique as our personalities are, no two people will view things in the same way. Every witness will have some of their attention drawn to specific points in an event. Some will gather small details that others will miss and vice-versa. This is natural, completely normal and totally expected by an experieced law enforcement officer/investigator. Still, among all thiose witnesses, the heart of the act or event that they saw remains consistent, despite the differences in some of the smaller details scattered among the viewers.

I'm being extra careful in explaining here because I don't want to be misunderstood about a word that I'm about to use.
Corroboration is what law enforcement, (as well as Historians, Archeologists, Geologists and Astrophysicists) look for in verifying their work. You may have subtle differences in some minor details but the major part of the story remains and paints a clear enough picture for all to see regarding the event that transpired.

I have found this to be the case in the New Testament. Four eyewitnesses, not yet biased by a religious belief, seeing an event so remarkable that they felt compelled to write it all down. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are indeed historical, eyewitness accounts and fit every criteria for such. They are also remarkably accurate in their corroboration. And, we cannot forget Paul's (Paul was a persecutor of the first Christians) eyewitness account when he was thrown from his horse on the way to Damascus.

All early writings, unearthed, translated but rejected by man's alleged wisdom. I do not place my faith in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@nvrsummer2:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
-Mark 13:32
This is but one reference. There are others. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To me, the proof is in the force that fights against God. "For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction."
Newton didn't create that law, he merely discovered and explained it. God created the laws of physics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

You make a very good point and I agree whole hearted. The four you mention all had different backgrounds and had different professions, so they all saw the same thing but saw in a slight different way. For example, Luke was a physician. He saw things more from a medical perspective.

Rick_1105
05-24-2011, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by Blowtanks:
Thankfully there's still time, I haven't mastered Falcon 4 Allied Force yet. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

OMG... I so love that sim. To me, there is no other sim that even comes close to it. The dynamic campaign engine is remarkable. The way you perform in the sim dictates how the outcome will be and how long the war lasts.

I am from Canada and met a fellow from Europe on the Allied Force forums and we played a lot together and became friends. We were quite the team. Sometimes we would fly in the same squadron and sometimes we would fly seperate squadrons... depending on what the mission was and what all had to be done. Based on each others strengths and weaknesses, we knew, for a particular mission, who would fly lead or how we would arm our planes. For example, if our objective was going to attack a large airbase, I would be in charge of taking out radar and SAMs with a 4 ship, and my partner would arrive on site 2 minutes later with a 4 ship to destroy the runways and supporting buildings on the base. If all went according to plan we would both complete our objective in the first pass and safely bring back 8 planes back to home base.

Blowtanks
05-24-2011, 11:52 PM
OMG... I so love that sim. To me, there is no other sim that even comes close to it. The dynamic campaign engine is remarkable. The way you perform in the sim dictates how the outcome will be and how long the war lasts.

Yeah, it is one fine sim.
I went out and bought the Saitek X52 Pro Hotas with rudder pedals and the TrackIR 5 to get setup. Now I can't stop playing. Look into the TrackIR 5, I couldn't go back to playing without it. It's like flying a plane in that it gives you a 360 degree view from inside the cockpit like a real plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

Wolferz
05-25-2011, 06:16 AM
There is one thing that Mr Camping failed to mention in his prediction... The tribulation The Bible does state specifically how long that will last... Seven years of hell on Earth. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif But it does NOT say exactly when it will begin. However the warning signs of its immenent approach are illustrated. Mr Camping is just another con artist bilking money out of the faithful and the gullible alike. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif A weak mind is a terrible thing.
Who knows, maybe Tammy Faye got her hooks into him and she needed another $50,000 dog house. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
You bring up a very interesting and reasonable point Celeon. Now, Historians, Archeologists and the like, for the most part, will not look at The Bible as anything more than a religious book. In fact, the 4 Gospels of the New Testament is a compilation of historical, eyewitness accounts that was (actually) written by non-believers.

One of the things I've come to appreciate in my line of work is the questioning of eyewitnesses to an event or crime. As unique as our personalities are, no two people will view things in the same way. Every witness will have some of their attention drawn to specific points in an event. Some will gather small details that others will miss and vice-versa. This is natural, completely normal and totally expected by an experieced law enforcement officer/investigator. Still, among all thiose witnesses, the heart of the act or event that they saw remains consistent, despite the differences in some of the smaller details scattered among the viewers.

I'm being extra careful in explaining here because I don't want to be misunderstood about a word that I'm about to use.
Corroboration is what law enforcement, (as well as Historians, Archeologists, Geologists and Astrophysicists) look for in verifying their work. You may have subtle differences in some minor details but the major part of the story remains and paints a clear enough picture for all to see regarding the event that transpired.

I have found this to be the case in the New Testament. Four eyewitnesses, not yet biased by a religious belief, seeing an event so remarkable that they felt compelled to write it all down. The Gospels of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John are indeed historical, eyewitness accounts and fit every criteria for such. They are also remarkably accurate in their corroboration. And, we cannot forget Paul's (Paul was a persecutor of the first Christians) eyewitness account when he was thrown from his horse on the way to Damascus.

All early writings, unearthed, translated but rejected by man's alleged wisdom. I do not place my faith in the wisdom of men but in the power of God.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@nvrsummer2:
"But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father."
-Mark 13:32
This is but one reference. There are others. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

To me, the proof is in the force that fights against God. "For every action, there is an equal but opposite reaction."
Newton didn't create that law, he merely discovered and explained it. God created the laws of physics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

For me with ever often doubtful faith, I think the greatest evidence we have of Christ is who he was. I can't recall the verse, but it stated,
"I didn't come to honor myself, but him that sent me." In all religions man has motive, Christ had no earthly motive, sought no earthly gain, taught love and died for it. Frankly, that's beyond earthly human reasoning.

We do have secular accounts that Christ lived, few, but they exist, so no doubt he walked the earth.

Obvious, we can see division already in the church as men started following the different apostles and arguing over their teachings. The early church for 300 years broke up into different sects and had different beliefs. Doctrines started being formed before the bible, different councils translated scripture.
In the end the doctrines that won out did so more out of power of politics..the strong and powerful made the rules.

Why I believe scripture to be inspired, the bible is not. The bible was put together by different men and evolved numerous times. I highly doubt these men with many motives were inspired. Still, I think it's a needed book, but one must be aware of the many translations based often on political gain. Often Doctrine was created to control man. We have several periods of the creation of mass doctrine to fit their cultural and political climate.

Many wars were fought simply over biblical doctrine and men tortured to no end over it. For 100's of years government or priest told men what to believe, you believed it or died. There was little self studied belief, it was basically a political tool. Men started defining different codes of conduct based on controlling men pulling scripture out of context to suit their needs. Even today so many christians are miserable because they follow codes of conduct instead of the law of love.

My belief system took years to form, but me tools of study are reasoning first, scripture second and every work I can get my hand on. Simply, I don't believe it because I was told. Since my early fundy days much of my beliefs have changed. One must use all the tools he has when studying doctrine, most don't, they simply believe whatever is taught in the church they happened to walk into. I walked into a baptist church and got saved at 15 and for many years never questioned anything, just believed it.

The harder issue for me is what exactly is the truth. When one goes seeking understanding of the deeper doctrines it seems almost an impossible task, question seem to only lead to more questions, freewill, doe's hell exist, first sin, trinity, suffering, etc... I could argue for and against almost any doctrine with equal effect scriptually, so I need other tools, mainly historical and political climate when doctrines were formed.

Maybe Camping is sincere in his faith and beliefs, I don't know. I do know he's a nut.

WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 11:10 AM
Ah yes, who He was. He was, the Lamb of God. Yes, there are secular accounts that help to corroborate Jesus' existance, like the works of Josephus Flavius (for one reference).

The Bible (is) nothing but scripture. If your saying that scripture is inspired but The Bible is not, what exactly do you mean by that? Most Bible scholars will agree that the King James version is the most literal translation of the Bible. Translation simply means to change the text from one language to another.
The New International Version simply attempts to change the English into a version that is "one size fits all" (for lack of a better description) for the different styles of English in the world, but that (Translations) is a whole new topic.

Now, there have been times in history where churches used the Bible and Christianity as a tool to wage war but, that was through no fault of scripture (or The Bible). That had a lot more to do with personal gain or people not being able to read, not being allowed to read, or just not reading the Bible itself. Had they known or understood the one message contained in The Bible, they surely would not have allowed, or engaged in, behavior contrary to the scriptures. Therefore, these wars were not fought over biblical doctrine (Thou Shalt Not Kill, Thou Shalt Not Covet, Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself). These wars were fought over secular doctrine as dictated by men. They were fought over a lie. The Bible, from cover to cover, does not teach us to wage war. How hard is that to understand?

In every Christian's life, scripture should come first. If it doesn't, the lines become blurry and susceptible to outside influences, and lies. The whole point to Christianity is that we stop playing god to ourselves and let Jesus sit on the thrones of our lives. I must admit, being brought up as a Catholic, I've never seen a Bible in my entire life when I walk into a Catholic church. Only the priest has a Bible at the mass altar.

As far as "what exactly is the truth", for a Christian, it's this: Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one gets to the Father except through me."

There are no other paths to heaven. Lets face it, if God was someone I could figure out and fit into my framework of understanding, then He wouldn't really be God, would He?

Camping believes in what he is doing. What he is doing is not in line with scripture. I'm not his judge. I'm just pointing out a fact. He's an old, old, man who was called out of retirement to help save a troubled radio program (that he helped to get started). That's all I can say about him at this point. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Blowtanks
05-25-2011, 12:37 PM
VonTrapp makes some very interesting points.
But..."There are no other paths to heaven."
There is no where in the Bible that says you/I/anyone will go to heaven.

1) Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
2) Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
3) Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
4) Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Jesus said, as the God of the Old Testament, that the reward of the saved is the earth.
Then he said as God in the flesh that the reward of the saved is the earth.
Then God the Father Himself will come to dwell on the earth.
On the other hand there is not one single promise of anyone going to Heaven.

A "non-denominational" church is still just another church. Can all these different churches, teaching different doctrins, all be right?

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 12:40 PM
The bible is and isn't scripture, it's scripture translated by men over and over.

The question is were the men that put the many bibles together just as inspired by those that wrote scripture, I think not. Just do a study comparison on the history of the bible and the evolution of doctrine based on how scripture was translated. If the bible is God's word, then which bible? It's not that I'm saying it isn't God's word, just one of those issues where you often can't see the trees because of the forest.

That's why I say I use reasoning first. If one doesn't reason or study the politics of scripture, language and translation errors, added text and politics vs the bible one will simply believe based on others.

The different bibles created different doctrines that formed different denominations. Based on translation, 1000's of sub-denominations evolved over time. Even as a past baptist, they're hundreds of baptist sub denominations, 1000's of different doctrines from the same book all claiming to be right should be suspect.

The KJV wasn't a Protestant bible, it was the bible of the Anglican Church. Protestants hated the KJV, they preferred the Geneva bible. Why both are close, the KJV council took several translations from the latin vulgate from the RCC which gave certain scriptures different meanings. The latin being a tool of Roman Catholics, Protestants hated the KJV. They were persecuted for the love of the Geneva bible. In fact, Protestants brought their Geneva bible and started a new way of life in...America.

Yes, the KJV came to be the bible best known, but more due to political power and money, it was backed by a corrupt King. Not that it's far off from others, but doe's contain several serious translation errors, added text, etc, but they all do to a point.

The bible is a needed tool, it's what we have, but it is not the only tool. Men chose what went in it and what didn't. Many other gnostics and writings were excluded because they didn't fit the theme, but why were these diciples of Christ writings less inspired because men hundreds of years later said so?

No doubt it's hard to step out and question doctrinal issues. Still, I'm not far from what I once was. The biggest issue for me when studying greek and translation was eternal hell which I find totally unsupported scriptually in itself, not to mention it only became a taught doctrine about 400 years after the early church, but Rome saw this pagan idea as a good fear tactic to control people. Sadly, after the Catholic Church accepted hell, man and the church saw no problem with torturing mankind to the worse degree in the name of God. I guess they figured if God could do it, so could they in his name.

For myself with 1000's of hours of study and debate I've dropped several doctrines I once believed in. Some christian friends say it hardly matters, others think I'm a heretic, but they refuse open debate, but least they can't rack me up today and pull my intestines out. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Celeon999
05-25-2011, 12:41 PM
I for one, would like to take this opportunity to assure that im NOT the Messiah.

Which is the best method to make you think i am because thats exactly the kind of thing the Messiah would say. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Brian wasnt either...

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WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Blowtanks:
VonTrapp makes some very interesting points.
But..."There are no other paths to heaven."
There is no where in the Bible that says you/I/anyone will go to heaven.

1) Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
2) Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
3) Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
4) Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Jesus said, as the God of the Old Testament, that the reward of the saved is the earth.
Then he said as God in the flesh that the reward of the saved is the earth.
Then God the Father Himself will come to dwell on the earth.
On the other hand there is not one single promise of anyone going to Heaven.

A "non-denominational" church is still just another church. Can all these different churches, teaching different doctrins, all be right?

No reference to Heaven? Then, what is Jesus referring to when, while teaching us to pray He says, "Our Father who art in Heaven"?

Here's another refernce in Luke 16 during the story of Lazaus and the rich man. Hades is referenced and where do you think Lazarus is when the rich man looks up to Abraham begging for water? They are clearly, not on earth. On the contrary, there are many references to heaven. What do you suppose might happen after the 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

@MWolfe:
Translations have nothing to do with changing the message. How can one language understand another if not for translation? Are you saying that each and every bible, from the same publisher, during the same printing series says something different? I don't understand your point of translation. If I translate the sentence "I want a cookie." from English to any other language, does that mean it will say, "I want a car." in another? I don't understand what point you are trying to make.

The Bible says the same thing today that it did a thousand years ago. Thou Shalt Not Kill, translated into any other language will still mean that we are not allowed to kill. What are you really trying to say?

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Blowtanks:
VonTrapp makes some very interesting points.
But..."There are no other paths to heaven."
There is no where in the Bible that says you/I/anyone will go to heaven.

1) Psa 37:11 But the meek shall inherit the earth, And shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace.
2) Mat 5:5 Blessed are the meek, For they shall inherit the earth.
3) Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
4) Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.

Jesus said, as the God of the Old Testament, that the reward of the saved is the earth.
Then he said as God in the flesh that the reward of the saved is the earth.
Then God the Father Himself will come to dwell on the earth.
On the other hand there is not one single promise of anyone going to Heaven.

A "non-denominational" church is still just another church. Can all these different churches, teaching different doctrins, all be right?

Actually they're 100's of scriptures that say God will reconcile all man to himself, that all men in God's order will be saved. This was the theme of the majority of the early church for 400 years, that Christ would save all his creation in God's order and timing.

That doesn't say Christ isn't the only way, just that many men don't know it. The way many see salvation is more a luck of the draw. When Christ said he was the only way a few million people lived on the earth. The gospel took 100's of years just to reach europe, another 1000 to the americas. Millions have died never hearing the gospel, so if Christ is the only way, guess they're just out of luck just for not hearing.

The other issue is culture. If you or I were born in Iran, we would most likely be brainwashed with Islam before adulthood, the same with China, India, etc, children accept the religion of culture from birth...as you or I would. Thousands of tribes have existed that never heard the gospel, even in america, many exist today. Many christians say these will be judged another way, but then Jesus isn't the only way. Sadly, when hell was created men had to invent other doctrines to find a way to excuse those where only Christ didn't fit.

There is another false gospel, what happens to children when they die? Many teach they're not accountable, but then that's the gospel of unaccountability, not Jesus is the only way.

The majority of the early church believed all men would be saved in God's order and timing through Christ. You won't find eternal hell in the churches earliest creeds. Paul himself never spoke of it.

God gave Christ all things in heaven and earth and will save those same all things through the cross.

Colossians 1:18-20 (New International Version)
18 And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19 For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
That doesn't say Christ isn't the only way Well I don't know any other meaning for "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one gets to the Father Except through me."

Did you forget "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven -Matthew 7:21?

I'm not here to convince you of anything MWolfe. I'm speaking as a Christian. You can take it or leave it but I can tell that you don't read The Bible. God is not and cannot be someone we just fabricate in our own minds to fit our own purposes. Otherwise He wouldn't be the same to everyone and would have different standards for everyone. That just wouldn't make any sense, and it's not what The Bible teaches. Anyway, I will pray for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Blowtanks
05-25-2011, 01:16 PM
The different bibles created different doctrines that formed different denominations. Based on translation, 1000's of sub-denominations evolved over time. Even as a past baptist, they're hundreds of baptist sub denominations, 1000's of different doctrines from the same book all claiming to be right should be suspect.

The real question here is why should there be different translations of the Bible?
The short answer is: because most Bibles were translated with the twist the translators wanted according to their personal belief.
The simple fact is: all Bibles are translated from the very same manuscripts.

If you ask most people why Jesus spoke in parables you will get the standard answer that he did so in order to make his message clear to people who for the most part were not very learned. But Jesus Himself said, Mat 13:10 And the disciples came and said to Him, "Why do You speak to them in parables?"
Mat 13:11 He answered and said to them, "Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
Mat 13:12 For whoever has, to him more will be given, and he will have abundance; but whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.
Mat 13:13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Mat 13:14 And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says: 'HEARING YOU WILL HEAR AND SHALL NOT UNDERSTAND, AND SEEING YOU WILL SEE AND NOT PERCEIVE;

Strange that the people with all the answers say one thing and the guy (Jesus) said a whole different thing.
What it comes down to is it doesn't matter what you/I/or anyone thinks it says, it's what it really does says. Most people simply don't want to believe what it says.

WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 01:24 PM
More often than not, I've learned through experience that the people who claim to have all the answers, usually don't know what they're talking about.
I no longer listen to those types. I try my best to follow Jesus. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Blowtanks
05-25-2011, 01:37 PM
No reference to Heaven? Then, what is Jesus referring to when, while teaching us to pray He says, "Our Father who art in Heaven"?

Yes the Father is in Heaven. That does not mean that you and I will go to Heaven.
Reread those verses I posted.


Here's another refernce in Luke 16 during the story of Lazaus and the rich man. Hades is referenced and where do you think Lazarus is when the rich man looks up to Abraham begging for water? They are clearly, not on earth. On the contrary, there are many references to heaven. What do you suppose might happen after the 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth?

This is a parable that seems to make sense in the way most see it. But remember what Christ said about parables. And what do you think it means in that parable when it says, Luk 16:26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.'

Does anyone think that this really means that those who make it have the "good fun" pleasure of watching those who didn't make it suffer for all eternity? That would make God a horrible being.

One God the Father - One Christ - One Bible - One Truth. The rest is what Jesus told the apostles to watch out for.

WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 02:19 PM
"Let not your hearts be troubled. Believe in God; believe also in me. In my Father's house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also."
-John 14:1-3
The Bible clearly states time and again that the Father dwells in heaven. Where do you think Jesus is going to prepare this place for us in His "Father's House"?

"But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, who will transform our lowly body to be like his glorious body, by the power that enables him even to subject all things to himself."
—Philippians 3:20-21
Where is our citizenship?

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea.
-Revelation 21:1
Clearly, not only is there a difference between the old heaven and earth, but the new ones too.


My friend, are we playing let's quiz the Christian?
Jesus will reign with us (on earth) for 1000 years, as the Bible says. Where do you think we might end up after that 1000 years? Are you just throwing out scripture indiscriminately that you find on the web or do you read The Bible?
Heaven is wherever God may be, my friend.

fireftr18
05-25-2011, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Celeon999:
I for one, would like to take this opportunity to assure that im NOT the Messiah.

Which is the best method to make you think i am because thats exactly the kind of thing the Messiah would say. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Brian wasnt either...

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"just look on the bright side of life." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
That doesn't say Christ isn't the only way Well I don't know any other meaning for "I am the way, the truth and the life. No one gets to the Father Except through me."

Did you forget "Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven -Matthew 7:21?

I'm not here to convince you of anything MWolfe. I'm speaking as a Christian. You can take it or leave it but I can tell that you don't read The Bible. God is not and cannot be someone we just fabricate in our own minds to fit our own purposes. Otherwise He wouldn't be the same to everyone and would have different standards for everyone. That just wouldn't make any sense, and it's not what The Bible teaches. Anyway, I will pray for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The KJV certainly has the beauty and flare of that day. However, King James English was not the language to Bible was written in, and it poetic style of writing does not constitute infallibility.

That form of English makes it difficult at times to grasp what is being said. To compound the problem, a large number of the words carried a different thought than what they do today. The loyal translators of the king can be given credit for the wonderful truths in the version, for there are many, but we should also know that there are a significant number of errors as well, as it is with all the others translations. Only the original manuscripts can be said to be flawless, and there are none in existence, so we work with what we have.

Not sure how you would think I don't read the bible, I read and study it daily. I spent almost 3 years in a Baptist College with one year studying greek. I was a Sunday School teacher and Youth Minister for 3 years and led Word of Life in our area. I've spent 1000's of hours in study, but lacking the original I want all info possible. I don't think we should fear stepping out of our doctrinal thinking if we are truly interested in it. I actually set out to prove many doctrines to start, but found issues and errors that led to more questioning and thought. As with any doctrine, it's long been debated by the great minds. In the end both leave the debate feeling they've won, but the fact is we are what we believe. Even Luther admitted the possibility of salvation for all men, but he dare not preach it. I've been in countless debates in person and on forum, like most it goes tit for tat for 1000's of post each arguing their side, but for me it was clear. I found the biggest issue is those for eternal hell have one limited view, they haven't studied both sides in depth, where those that believe God will save all have studied both views in depth.

I'm a true believer that Christ is the only way, just that Christ will save all mankind back unto himself. This is the theme of the greek. It was the theme of the early church for 400 years.

Course this isn't a forum of religious debate of which I belong to several, so any debate with me with scripture I would rather do off forum, but I have no problem dealing with any of the english hell definitions.

For sure, I'm long past casting judgment of why people believe as they do and would rather keep friends than argue religion. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
The KJV certainly has the beauty and flare of that day. However, King James English was not the language to Bible was written in, and it poetic style of writing does not constitute infallibility.

That form of English makes it difficult at times to grasp what is being said. To compound the problem, a large number of the words carried a different thought than what they do today. The loyal translators of the king can be given credit for the wonderful truths in the version, for there are many, but we should also know that there are a significant number of errors as well, as it is with all the others translations...

...I spent almost 3 years in a Baptist College with one year studying greek. I was a Sunday School teacher and Youth Minister for 3 years and led Word of Life in our area. I've spent 1000's of hours in study, but lacking the original I want all info possible. You found verified errors?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wolfe, my friend, I'm having a hard time understanding the point you're getting at with this whole translation thing. On the one hand (in one post) you sound like you're saying that translation is what makes the Bible unreliable. Now, you're actually providing one of the reasons why it is necessary. Translation, in and of itself, does not constitute unreliability. Nowhere in the Bible does it even suggest that God is just going to accept everyone into heaven by reconciliation. I should have more than clarified that with just the few referenced passages that I listed.

Besides some other Christians/Faiths, I know a lot of Catholics (including my own mother) who believe everybody is going to heaven no matter what but, she does not base her belief on scripture. It's her own personal interpretation from reading her Bible just once. Now, if we put aside what the Bible clearly teaches and assume our own interpretations, if that's what you're actually referring to in your previous posts, well that's a completely different thing altogether. Still, it has nothing to do with the professional translations of The Bible. The Gospel in English should mean the same exact thing to me as it does written in Italian for someone in Italy.
I still have considerable difficulty understanding your point, which now seems to have shifted to the subject of Fallibility.
The message in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, is consistent. They both corroborate with each other and with the central theme of the Bible, which happens to be Jesus is God, the Son of God, the sacrificial Lamb of God and whether we accept Him as such. A free gift to replace our undeniable inability to get to heaven on our own.

All those years in study and you still have doubts? I doubt you'll do better searching for the answers among men and their teachings. Only you know the true reasons for your continued doubt. If you've chosen to believe that The Bible is fallible, you've already made up your mind on the subject. It's either the Word of God to you, or it's not. There is no in-between. That's what is called "Faith".

Wolferz
05-25-2011, 05:50 PM
Those who came before Jesus will be judged according to their deeds. As for all that came anno domini, they have but one path through Christ, who was sacrificed to atone for all sins and gain victory over the second death. Death of the spirit.
The only thing I have trouble realizing is, why would Hell be a hot place? Eternal darkness and cold, seperated from the light and warmth of Gods' love would be a far worse torment to me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

WernherVonTrapp
05-25-2011, 06:11 PM
Actually, all who came before Jesus will be judged according to their faith (or believing God). The Law (the ten commandments) was given in order to show us that we need Jesus and cannot hold ourselves to obeying even the least of the commandments (Thou Shalt Not Covet). That's why Jesus referred to Himself as the fulfillment of the law and the prophets.

When Abraham took his only son (see the similarity) to be sacrificed for God, the Bible says that Abraham believed God and it was accounted unto him as righteousness. Abraham never had to complete the sacrifice because there was nothing he could do on his own, apart from believing (having faith in) God, in order to be acceptable to God. The great part about that story was that Abraham didn't agree to sacrifice his son just to present himself as acceptable to God. He did it for no other reason other than he believed God's words.

And, "it was accounted unto him as righteousness" shows that God started an account in Abrahams name and the first deposit he put into that account for Abraham was righteousness.
How many times have we heard the New Testament tell us to store up riches for ourselves in heaven. Another reference (BTW) to where we are going.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Blowtanks
05-25-2011, 07:55 PM
My friend, are we playing let's quiz the Christian?
Jesus will reign with us (on earth) for 1000 years, as the Bible says. Where do you think we might end up after that 1000 years? Are you just throwing out scripture indiscriminately that you find on the web or do you read The Bible?
Heaven is wherever God may be, my friend.

You quote the verses always quoted, but none of these say anything about where the reward is.
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
The Bible says, and I repete, Heaven is not the reward of the saved. The earth is. I have quoted scripture from the Old Testament and the New.


Where is our citizenship?
It's in Heaven with Christ. That's why Christ will return with it for you.

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ Why do you think Christ is returning?
The quick answer is: Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" After the 1,000 reign of Christ on earth, the Father will be here on earth in the New Jerusalem.
Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
The citizenship of which he speaks is in "The Kingdom of God"
Yes I do study. And it should be clear that there is a problem with the thought of going to Heaven and all the verses in the Bible that say the earth is the reward of the saved. I didn't write them.

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 09:41 PM
Originally posted by WernherVonTrapp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MWolfe1963:
The KJV certainly has the beauty and flare of that day. However, King James English was not the language to Bible was written in, and it poetic style of writing does not constitute infallibility.

That form of English makes it difficult at times to grasp what is being said. To compound the problem, a large number of the words carried a different thought than what they do today. The loyal translators of the king can be given credit for the wonderful truths in the version, for there are many, but we should also know that there are a significant number of errors as well, as it is with all the others translations...

...I spent almost 3 years in a Baptist College with one year studying greek. I was a Sunday School teacher and Youth Minister for 3 years and led Word of Life in our area. I've spent 1000's of hours in study, but lacking the original I want all info possible. You found verified errors?! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Wolfe, my friend, I'm having a hard time understanding the point you're getting at with this whole translation thing. On the one hand (in one post) you sound like you're saying that translation is what makes the Bible unreliable. Now, you're actually providing one of the reasons why it is necessary. Translation, in and of itself, does not constitute unreliability. Nowhere in the Bible does it even suggest that God is just going to accept everyone into heaven by reconciliation. I should have more than clarified that with just the few referenced passages that I listed.

Besides some other Christians/Faiths, I know a lot of Catholics (including my own mother) who believe everybody is going to heaven no matter what but, she does not base her belief on scripture. It's her own personal interpretation from reading her Bible just once. Now, if we put aside what the Bible clearly teaches and assume our own interpretations, if that's what you're actually referring to in your previous posts, well that's a completely different thing altogether. Still, it has nothing to do with the professional translations of The Bible. The Gospel in English should mean the same exact thing to me as it does written in Italian for someone in Italy.
I still have considerable difficulty understanding your point, which now seems to have shifted to the subject of Fallibility.
The message in the Bible, both Old and New Testaments, is consistent. They both corroborate with each other and with the central theme of the Bible, which happens to be Jesus is God, the Son of God, the sacrificial Lamb of God and whether we accept Him as such. A free gift to replace our undeniable inability to get to heaven on our own.

All those years in study and you still have doubts? I doubt you'll do better searching for the answers among men and their teachings. Only you know the true reasons for your continued doubt. If you've chosen to believe that The Bible is fallible, you've already made up your mind on the subject. It's either the Word of God to you, or it's not. There is no in-between. That's what is called "Faith". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's fairly simple, men translated the many verses often using english or latin definitions in forming scripture. If you've studied greek, you would understand that. I've studied several different bibles and for sure they often translate scripture differently. You may believe the men sitting on the King's council were inspired, study who they were and their political careers and you would find different.
I do have problems where they used the latin vulgate over greek as did early protestants who were persercuted because they didn't accept the use of latin over greek for english translation. Certainly we don't use different languages today, we use the original greek in comparison. Scripture is infallable, the english versions and doctrine is fallalble, it's changed often.

Certainly doctrine is a good thing, most is correct even though some disagree on small points, others I find terribly wrong. I find some I agree with Catholics, some with Protestants, some with others, but it was done on sincere study, not because someone told me to believe a certain way. I think most denominations result culturally more than they do doctrinally, so I don't judge denominations. If they believe Christ is the only way, that's what counts.

We all study under men, our churches and Pastor's, SS teachers, etc, but we study based on the views of our denominations or church accepted doctrine, few step out of these bounds.


Regarding doctrine, most was created by man. Doesn't mean they're wrong, but doctrine changed greatly as the many different councils through history redefined it over hundreds of years. We can say we trust scripture, but we also " study to show ourselves approved".

In any bible college scripture isn't studied on scripture alone, even in the fundy one I attended, it's studied in principle and comparison. You study it historically, contextually, linguistically, figurativly, etc, but it must be studied based on the meanings of the time. Study the methods the different councils used over time, read their endless debates, fairly amazing.

Many errors and doctrines came when Rome for politcal purpose wove christianity into politics seeking power over the masses. The many themes and doctrines of the early church for 400 years were put away with. Then the latin translation to create doctrine to suit themselves, much of this found it's way into the english versions, that's why protestants refused to accept the KJV.

I don't seperate doubt and faith, they're one in the same, it's a growth process, we grow out of doubt into faith. Only a mustard seed of faith can result in great works. Some of the best apostles that saw Christ and his miracles suffered severe doubt, so we're in good company. Doubt brings questions causing us to seek answers. Faith is a growth process.

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 10:12 PM
Originally posted by Wolferz:
Those who came before Jesus will be judged according to their deeds. As for all that came anno domini, they have but one path through Christ, who was sacrificed to atone for all sins and gain victory over the second death. Death of the spirit.
The only thing I have trouble realizing is, why would Hell be a hot place? Eternal darkness and cold, seperated from the light and warmth of Gods' love would be a far worse torment to me. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Our God is a consuming God, like fire. Fire and God are often connected as fire was a form of purification, sulfer and brimstone were biblical cleansing agents, a "torment" in biblical days was the process of beating metal into perfection. Sadly, these words in english are used to create a God of torture when they don't carry that biblical meaning in hebrew or greek.

Certainly God will judge the works of all men, our works will be consumed as by fire. Who knows what that process is, but I don't think it's literal fire, but the process that God uses to destroy failed works. Our salvation isn't based on works, our judgment is.

1 Cor 3:13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is.

MWolfe1963
05-25-2011, 10:19 PM
Originally posted by Blowtanks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> My friend, are we playing let's quiz the Christian?
Jesus will reign with us (on earth) for 1000 years, as the Bible says. Where do you think we might end up after that 1000 years? Are you just throwing out scripture indiscriminately that you find on the web or do you read The Bible?
Heaven is wherever God may be, my friend.

You quote the verses always quoted, but none of these say anything about where the reward is.
Rev 5:9 And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, And to open its seals; For You were slain, And have redeemed us to God by Your blood Out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation,
Rev 5:10 And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth."
The Bible says, and I repete, Heaven is not the reward of the saved. The earth is. I have quoted scripture from the Old Testament and the New.


Where is our citizenship?
It's in Heaven with Christ. That's why Christ will return with it for you.

But our citizenship is in heaven, and from it we await a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ Why do you think Christ is returning?
The quick answer is: Rev 11:15 Then the seventh angel sounded: And there were loud voices in heaven, saying, "The kingdoms of this world have become the kingdoms of our Lord and of His Christ, and He shall reign forever and ever!" After the 1,000 reign of Christ on earth, the Father will be here on earth in the New Jerusalem.
Rev 21:1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, "Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God.
The citizenship of which he speaks is in "The Kingdom of God"
Yes I do study. And it should be clear that there is a problem with the thought of going to Heaven and all the verses in the Bible that say the earth is the reward of the saved. I didn't write them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You explained the common protestant doctrine, that heaven for believers is the new earth. This is common doctrine for most baptist, methodist, non denom, penta's, etc.....Didn't read all the posting you had on it, just saying that's what most accept as eternal home.

.

WernherVonTrapp
05-26-2011, 12:05 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif Oh my goodness, look at all the replying I have to do. I can't keep going on with this. I'm so tired of typing and correcting my typo errors. I can't type to save my life and it was hard and long enough just to type my previous replies. All I'll say at this point is that I have the comparative study bible (with translations side by side) so, I know about the difference in certain translated words. They don't change the message or theme of The Bible. To me, they all say the same thing.
Don't know what was meant by "I quote all the verses." That's because they are Bible verses. Other than that, don't know what else I was supposed to quote. I could've quoted more verses if that's what you mean, but I didn't.http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-confused005.gif