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View Full Version : Ju~87 & He~111 are right, I was (choke) wrong



XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 08:45 AM
er....all models Stuka and He~111 can start engines off airfield now. I was wrong.

Checked my FB1.11 and same thing. I guess they changed this this long, long ago after FB1.0 and I never checked. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif These are two are most important in making a German bomber campaign not limited to FB airfields.


New, and shorter, list of aircraft that cannot takeoff outside FB airfields...


Zero
I~153
I~16
Me~262
He~162
G~50

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Me262 doesn't bother me, as I guess it took a ~very~ large airfield.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 08:45 AM
er....all models Stuka and He~111 can start engines off airfield now. I was wrong.

Checked my FB1.11 and same thing. I guess they changed this this long, long ago after FB1.0 and I never checked. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif These are two are most important in making a German bomber campaign not limited to FB airfields.


New, and shorter, list of aircraft that cannot takeoff outside FB airfields...


Zero
I~153
I~16
Me~262
He~162
G~50

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Me262 doesn't bother me, as I guess it took a ~very~ large airfield.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 09:03 AM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:Me262 doesn't bother me, as I guess it took a ~very~ large airfield.

And the He-162 too,for that matter....

<center>47|FC <img src="http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg"<

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 10:45 AM
To start the I-153 or I-16 you usually needed a special device. They sometimes used a truck or a dedicated machine (Large) to rotate the propeller and it's axis to generate enough revolutions to start the engine. It could not be started (afaik) with a single man rotating the propeller (ala WW1).

As this was only on their airfields, it makes sense that you cannot start the engine on mid-air or on the ground.

Source: I-16 on the Spanish Civil War

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/falcofb.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 10:56 AM
~hi~ Xanty!

Xanty::
-- To start the I-153 or I-16 you usually needed a special device.

No Device on FB airfields. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif Never seen.

We mission builders wish to use real life airfields where there are no airfields on FB modern maps made from spacecraft image. Make sure Oleg programs CR~42 for off airfield takeoff.

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 11:07 AM
* Ju~87 that really worried me. I~16 / I~153 are fine. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif No issue!

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 11:44 AM
xanty wrote:
- it makes sense
- that you cannot start the engine on mid-air or on
- the ground.
-
- Source: I-16 on the Spanish Civil War
-

I'd guess the power generated by the flowing air when in the air with a powered off engine would be sufficient to restart (as in: more powerful than one person manually turning the prop) the engine. On the ground is another matter.

<center>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/paul.bryant3/ETSigHolland.gif

'Smoke and a pancake?'</center>

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 05:58 PM
xanty wrote:
- To start the I-153 or I-16 you usually needed a
- special device. They sometimes used a truck or a
- dedicated machine (Large) to rotate the propeller
- and it's axis to generate enough revolutions to
- start the engine. It could not be started (afaik)
- with a single man rotating the propeller (ala WW1).
-
- As this was only on their airfields, it makes sense
- that you cannot start the engine on mid-air or on
- the ground.
-
- Source: I-16 on the Spanish Civil War
-
- <img
- src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/falcof
- b.jpg>



Yes you can start a I-153 in the air! I have done it several times. OLeg wrote it in at 1.11,You need to have alot of altitude and be going over 200 km/hr (faster the better) a slight dive to keep up speed helps and setting the throttle to start up power too.


http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid84/pcf14831e07273a1e01a33fb0e5650ffa/face10c7.jpg


Lead Whiner for the P-47D-40, M and N and Hvars

XyZspineZyX
12-01-2003, 07:27 PM
I~16 too can now air start above 200km/hr. Also they are not as sensitive to negative gees as before, but they will still surprise you. The other day was simming I~16 and didn't pay attention and I lost my engine but I just barely had enough altitude to restart. Pay attention when flying I~16. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I am conflicted about this. There are many airfield-barren regions of FB maps where I need to operate these airplanes from. I make my own airfields but some of these aircraft can't start there. Of course, no AI aircraft will land anywhere except the FB airfields and takeoff is only half the issue.

If we consider the historical number of aircraft operating over a region in most large FB maps, we find that this requires FB map airfields to each base maybe 50 aircraft for a typical WAR setting. In June 1941 this could be realistic as Soviets jammed everything on a few airfields right up on the front. But as we read, later on you have as 10 or less aircraft operating from a far greater number of frontline airfields than are shown in FB maps. In Italy the Germans were forced to operate "air bases" that were designed to support only 2 Fw190s. Also in Italy P~38 squadrons were sometimes based right outside Italian towns also and they had no massive FB~style USAAF air bases either.