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View Full Version : Question to P47M experts - How many kills were scored by P47Ms with the 56th FG?



Zacast
09-12-2005, 10:57 PM
I was discussing late war aircraft with someone and the question came up about how many aircraft were actually destroyed by P-47Ms in the last months of the war.

I know P-47Ms were deployed to the 56th FG in December - January 1944/45, but I have read about the various teething problems they had that supposedly kept them from seeing full time service till even later as the war was coming to a close.

So does anyone have an idea of roughly how many aircraft they downed? And under what circumstances?

Zacast
09-12-2005, 10:57 PM
I was discussing late war aircraft with someone and the question came up about how many aircraft were actually destroyed by P-47Ms in the last months of the war.

I know P-47Ms were deployed to the 56th FG in December - January 1944/45, but I have read about the various teething problems they had that supposedly kept them from seeing full time service till even later as the war was coming to a close.

So does anyone have an idea of roughly how many aircraft they downed? And under what circumstances?

NerdConnected
09-13-2005, 12:05 AM
Zacast,

From what I know most of the P47M's were hardly used because of engine problems (E.g. 1945 Late february all P47-M's were grounded for engine testing and checks and in March again by the 8th AF). Pilots preferred the older D models.

Late March 1945 most of the engine problems were solved and they appeared in larger numbers and the 56th got a few kills with P47M's.

I think the M model appeared too late (mainly due to these engine problems) to make a difference, so I imagine not many kills were made with this model.

Mark

TAGERT.
09-13-2005, 12:28 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zacast:
I was discussing late war aircraft with someone and the question came up about how many aircraft were actually destroyed by P-47Ms in the last months of the war.

I know P-47Ms were deployed to the 56th FG in December - January 1944/45, but I have read about the various teething problems they had that supposedly kept them from seeing full time service till even later as the war was coming to a close.

So does anyone have an idea of roughly how many aircraft they downed? And under what circumstances? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not sure, but Ill bet it was more than the Do335 got and less than the F4u-4 got.

Gibbage1
09-13-2005, 12:48 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
Not sure, but Ill bet it was more than the Do335 got and less than the F4u-4 got. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thats what we call POWNED!!!

woofiedog
09-13-2005, 01:18 AM
P-47M

Link: http://home.att.net/~historyzone/Seversky-Republic7.html

http://socalairshows.com/yankeemuseum/thumbs/th_IMG_0208.jpg

http://socalairshows.com/yankeemuseum/thumbs/th_IMG_0203.jpg

http://socalairshows.com/yankeemuseum/thumbs/th_IMG_0202.jpg

woofiedog
09-13-2005, 01:26 AM
Serial No Type Squad A/C Pilot Rank / Given Names Markings Comments

The 56th Fighter Group

link: http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/56thfg.jsp?offset=0

44-21### P-47M 61 HV-A Bast Capt. Victor E
44-21### P-47M 61 HV- Treff Lt. Ernest H Blue Eyes
44-21108 P-47M 61 HV-Z Lanowski Capt. Witold A First Production "M"
44-21109 P-47M 61 HV-K
44-21115 P-47M 61 HV-Q Joy Boy Crashed 13 March 45 - mid-air collision. Details unknown
44-21116 P-47M 61 HV-J Kyler Lt. Russel S Lorene
44-21126 P-47M 61 HV-L
44-21127 P-47M 61 HV-M Gladych Maj. Bolek M "Mike" Pengie V
44-21129 P-47M 61 HV-C Carter Maj. James R "Jim"
44-21147 P-47M 61 HV-
44-21156 P-47M 61 HV-Y
44-21159 P-47M 61 HV- Lightfoot Lt. Edwin B Crash-landed this, his first assigned P-47M on 21 Jan 45
44-21159 P-47M 61 HV- Lost 13 March 45 near Badley - Lt. Richard B Tuttle KIFA
44-21161 P-47M 61 HV-
44-21162 P-47M 61 HV-G
44-21174 P-47M 61 HV-S
44-21178 P-47M 61 HV-P
44-21182 P-47M 61 HV-S
44-21183 P-47M 61 HV-I
44-21184 P-47M 61 HV-R
44-21187 P-47M 61 HV-W Hoeflein Lt. Robert W Li'l Snorkey
44-21190 P-47M 61 HV-X
44-21195 P-47M 61 HV-N Allen Lt. John T Dee Crashed 22 June 45 - take-off accident.
44-21197 P-47M 61 HV-I Crashed 3 Feb 1945
44-21202 P-47M 61 HV-P Joy Boy
44-21212 P-47M 61 HV-U Woock Capt. Charles R Lovely Loey Named for Lois - the future Mrs Woock.


44-21114 P-47M 62 LM-P Dade Lt.Col. Lucian A Jr. "Pete"
44-21117 P-47M 62 LM-J Jackson Maj. Michael J "Mike" Teddy
44-21125 P-47M 62 LM-S Schilling Lt.Col. David C Lost 11 March 45 - Lt. Frank Aheron KITA
44-21128 P-47M 62 LM-K
44-21145 P-47M 62 LM-Y
44-21169 P-47M 62 LM-
44-21176 P-47M 62 LM-D Dade Lt.Col. Lucian A Jr. "Pete"
44-21177 P-47M 62 LM-B
44-21177 P-47M 62 LM-J
44-21199 P-47M 62 LM-X Butiste Lt .Leo F Artwork - pinup L cowl / "Josephine My Flying Machine" R Cowl
44-21200 P-47M 62 LM-R Ball Lt. Sandford N
44-21207 P-47M 62 LM-M Williamson Maj. Felix D "Willie" Crashed Belgium 17 April 45
44-21208 P-47M 62 LM-N
44-21210 P-47M 62 LM-O Gould Lt. Norman D
44-21211 P-47M 62 LM-Z
44-21214 P-47M 62 LM-Y Wilkerson Capt. William F
44-21219 P-47M 62 LM-I
44-21228 P-47M 62 LM-K
44-21228 P-47M 62 LM-R
44-21230 P-47M 62 LM-A Armstrong Lt. Donald Lost 16 April 45 - Capt. Edward W Appel KIA
44-21233 P-47M 62 LM-H Henley Lt. Donald Jr.
44-21237 P-47M 62 LM-C Sharbo Lt. Walter J North Dakota Kid
44-21223 P-47M 62 LM-

44-21### P-47M 63 UN- Frederick Lt. Walter R Quaker / Sad Sack
44-21### P-47M 63 UN-B Huff Lt. Edgar H
44-21### P-47M 63 UN- Hughes F/O Melvin J The Mighty Myth
44-21112 P-47M 63 UN-Z Bostwick Maj. George E Ugly Duckling
44-21118 P-47M 63 UN-S Shupe Lt. Arthur T
44-21120 P-47M 63 UN-L
44-21121 P-47M 63 UN-C Campbell Lt. Russell W
44-21126 P-47M 63 UN-S Stebleton Lt. Samuel F Lost 2 April 45 - Mid-air collision
44-21131 P-47M 63 UN-X Bailey Lt. Robert E Darlin' Dottie
44-21132 P-47M 63 UN-K Keeler Lt. John W Mrs. K
44-21134 P-47M 63 UN-P Conger Maj. Paul A Bernyce
44-21134 P-47M 63 UN-P Hoffman Lt. William R Teacher's Pet Lost in this a/c 13 April 45 - KIA
44-21135 P-47M 63 UN-A Arnold Lt. John A
44-21137 P-47M 63 UN-E Crosthwaite Lt. Edwin M
44-21140 P-47M 63 UN-F Flagg Capt. Walter L Shoot - You're Faded / Darling Dottie
44-21141 P-47M 63 UN-N Barrentine Lt. Emmett S
44-21141 P-47M 63 UN-N Murphy Lt. Randel L Jr "Pat" The Brat
44-21149 P-47M 63 UN-T Smith Lt. Thomas W Jr. "Ole Miss" Lib Named for his wife "Lib"(Elizabeth) who had returned to complete her senior year at "Ole Miss" (University of Mississippi)
44-21150 P-47M 63 UN-M McBath Capt. Charles T Dottie Dee II (+ artwork of cartoon wolf )
44-21152 P-47M 63 UN-H
44-21153 P-47M 63 UN-W Queen Lt. Thomas W Sylvia
44-21154 P-47M 63 UN-J Shupe Lt. Arthur T
44-21154 P-47M 63 UN-J Vest Lt. Boss E
44-21157 P-47M 63 UN-D Davis Lt. James T Margaret
44-21157 P-47M 63 UN-D Naylor Lt. James C
44-21160 P-47M 63 UN-F Fahringer Capt. John C Devastatin' Deb
44-21160 P-47M 63 UN-J
44-21163 P-47M 63 UN-S Clark Capt. Charles R
44-21175 P-47M 63 UN-Z Dawson Lt. Paul C Zemke's Woolfpack
44-21178 P-47M 63 UN-V Smith Lt. Vernon A
44-21181 P-47M 63 UN-H Hennesey Lt. Thomas B
44-21185 P-47M 63 UN-M Martin Lt. Arthur J
44-21186 P-47M 63 UN-H Hennessy Lt. Thomas B
44-21189 P-47M 63 UN-I Dawson Lt. Paul C
44-21194 P-47M 63 UN-X
44-21196 P-47M 63 UN-G Bradshaw Lt. John T Yorkshire Lass
44-21198 P-47M 63 UN-V Smith Lt. Vernon A
44-21201 P-47M 63 UN-C
44-21203 P-47M 63 UN-A Andermatt Lt. Eugene Miss June (R)
44-21215 P-47M 63 UN-K
44-21217 P-47M 63 UN-O Ogden Lt. Frank A
44-21221 P-47M 63 UN-C Charlton Lt. Wade B Pinkie (artwork of pink elephant) Info. Via Lt. Charlton
44-21222 P-47M 63 UN-S Scherz Lt. Willard C Scherz KIFA 5 March 45
44-21225 P-47M 63 UN-K Kuhn Lt. Philip G Fire Ball
44-21226 P-47M 63 UN-G Groce Lt. Walter R
44-21226 P-47M 63 UN-G Stebelton Lt. Samuel F
44-21234 P-47M 63 UN-R
44-21### P-47M 63 UN- Taylor Lt. Carter "Tree" Sal Gal Named for his sister

IL2-chuter
09-13-2005, 02:37 AM
They arrived at Boxted on 3 January and flew their first combat mission on the 14th. Problems out of the box included (but weren't limited to) poor altitude performance, intermittent engine roughness, engine overcooling (overcooling doesn't appear to be an IL2 issue . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif ). Note: not all aircraft encountered all difficulties, compounding the troubleshooting. Fixes included new turbo linkage, new ignition harnesses, and redesigned cowl exhausts to eliminate overcooling. All (67 at the time) were grounded 26-28 February for carb diaphram replacement, though engine failures sporadically continued. The cause was determined to be improper corrosion treatment pior to shipment, all engine failures occurring within the first 25hrs or so with engines over 50hrs being trouble free. All low time engines were grounded until replaced, all higher time engines remained in service.

It's clear the M's were being used through this whole period, beginning the 14th of January, with only a two day period where all were grounded at the same time.

And despite all the difficulties the pilots loved'em . . . http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

NerdConnected
09-13-2005, 03:01 AM
IL2-chuter

"It's clear the M's were being used through this whole period, beginning the 14th of January, with only a two day period where all were grounded at the same time."

From 16 until 24 March they were grounded again by 8th AF high command. On 25th they shot down some me-262's which were trying to land.

"And despite all the difficulties the pilots loved'em.."

Well, most of them did not trust the engine of the P47M and went back to the good old D model so it's likely they started to love them a bit later ;-)

Mark

IL2-chuter
09-13-2005, 12:08 PM
Ouch - absolutely correct (March 16-24 grounding . . . forgot). That's the engine corrosion discovery episode.

As for "loved'em", I guess it was more for the possibilty/potential demonstrated. They might be afraid the plane in its unreliable state might kill them but they weren't going to give them up (collectively, the "loved'em" part), confident they would get worked out. I guess.

PS. In April they were using the T48 (Jet) ammo. 550fps faster than stock and much hotter burning incindiary to ignite jet fuel. The M was clearly (if only to me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif) intended to counter the jet threat, which, of course, was more smoke than substance so the M (or lack of it) didn't make much difference in the end.

NerdConnected
09-13-2005, 02:23 PM
Zacast,

I've found following P47M combat actions.

Combat actions:

14th January, Maj. Paul Conger 1 bf109
25 March, Parchim airfield, Lt. Edwin H Crosthwait, 1 me262
25 March, Parchim airfield, Maj Bostwick, 1 me262 shot down while taking off
5 April, Regensburg, Capt John C Fahinger, 1 me262 (problably using P47M)
7 April, Hamburg, Maj Bostwick, 2 bf109's
10 April, Muritz Lake, Lt Walter J Sharbo, 1 me262

And,

10 april, ground strafing and shot down a Ju88/bf109 Mistel
13 april, Eggebeck Denmark ground strafing. Also ground strafing on route home and destroying many single engine fighters and Ju 88s, Bf110s and He111s.

There were early '45 (edit) about 67 P47-M models at Boxted.

Mark

Zacast
09-13-2005, 03:12 PM
^ Just wondering, where did you actually find that information? And is that a full list or is it pulled from various sources? Thanks.

Kuna15
09-13-2005, 03:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zacast:
I was discussing late war aircraft with someone and the question came up about how many aircraft were actually destroyed by P-47Ms in the last months of the war.

I know P-47Ms were deployed to the 56th FG in December - January 1944/45, but I have read about the various teething problems they had that supposedly kept them from seeing full time service till even later as the war was coming to a close.

So does anyone have an idea of roughly how many aircraft they downed? And under what circumstances? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not sure, but Ill bet it was more than the Do335 got and less than the F4u-4 got. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

lmao

NerdConnected
09-13-2005, 03:36 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Zacast:
^ Just wondering, where did you actually find that information? And is that a full list or is it pulled from various sources? Thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Zacast,

It's a fairly complete list from a single source (ie. Osprey's P47 Aces ETO) so I'm not sure if it's a complete list ;-)

However, in light of the short time the P47-M was active (only a couple of months) and the by then weakened Luftwaffe, it looks acceptable to me.

But again, I'm not entirely sure of this.

Mark