PDA

View Full Version : P 38 "propaganda"



Daiichidoku
11-16-2005, 11:15 AM
honestly, not trying to start qa flame thread

i really wish to know, that, if what i have heard (any quotes or links to threads for this welcome!), that data for P 38 according to lockheed, and AFAIK naca and/or usaaf data, was dismissed by Oleg as "propaganda"

1) did Oleg really say this?
if so, as to which data exactly did he say this to? lockheed? usaaf? naca?

2) does anyone know, or at least have a good guess as to just where, or from whom Oleg DID get his P 38 data?


it would be nice to know where any and all of his data for all FB types, and those not even in FB is, if only just to have another source for our interest in warbirds

MEGILE
11-16-2005, 12:07 PM
IIRC he stated some data was used merely to advertise planes... but I cannot find the quote.. its years old.

Gibbage1
11-16-2005, 01:25 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
honestly, not trying to start qa flame thread

i really wish to know, that, if what i have heard (any quotes or links to threads for this welcome!), that data for P 38 according to lockheed, and AFAIK naca and/or usaaf data, was dismissed by Oleg as "propaganda"

1) did Oleg really say this?
if so, as to which data exactly did he say this to? lockheed? usaaf? naca?

2) does anyone know, or at least have a good guess as to just where, or from whom Oleg DID get his P 38 data?


it would be nice to know where any and all of his data for all FB types, and those not even in FB is, if only just to have another source for our interest in warbirds

Im not sure about performance, but he said to me that the P-38 having no stall was propaganda when I sent him a link to Zeno's warbirds that shows the P-38 stalling (or NOT stalling) in a training video.

Leadspitter said Oleg told him Guncam footage was also propaganda. I cant confirm this.

Da_Godfatha
11-16-2005, 01:48 PM
Pffft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif And I suppose the UFO type VVS aircraft is not propaganda?

And so many people here believe that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Professor_06
11-16-2005, 02:17 PM
Well everyone knows that all planes can stall. Ther is no data anywhere saying the contrary. What the 38 doesnt easily do is "Spin Stall." soem Single engine fighters have a tendancy to spin or roll when stalling due to engine torque overtaking wing lift. Common knowledge. Zenos demonstrates P38s gentle stall in one of the P38 training films.

anarchy52
11-16-2005, 03:08 PM
Originally posted by Gibbage1:
Im not sure about performance, but he said to me that the P-38 having no stall was propaganda when I sent him a link to Zeno's warbirds that shows the P-38 stalling (or NOT stalling) in a training video.


All aircrafts can stall.
Thomas B. McGuire,38 victories, second ranking USAf ace (only Bong had 40), was killed when his P-38 stalled at low alt.

Slightly OT, but some probably don't know the full story:
The description of his final combat is amazing.


Allowed back in the air on January 7, 1945, McGuire was out for blood. Leading a flight of 4, he spotted a lone "Zero" low over the jungle of Negros Island. He had always preached never to get low, slow and heavy with the P-38, but this time he didn't let go his drop tanks. He saw the "Zero" as an easy kill, and with it and one more he would tie Bong. He made the fatal decision to keep his tanks, make the bounce, and continue the hunt.

Unfortunately for McGuire, the pilot he attacked was NAP 1/c Soichi Sugita, at that time the top-scoring surviving IJN ace with 80-odd kills scored over Rabaul, a master at the controls of a "Zero". In the ensuing fight, Sugita managed to shoot down one of McGuire's wingmen, and severely damage the other two. He then went after McGuire. Low over the jungle, heavy with fuel, McGuire stalled out trying to get away from Sugita and crashed to his death, a pointed example of the dark side of the lust for fame and glory.

Two survivors of McGuire's flight owe their lives to the fact that Sugita was out of ammo.

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/mcguire/mcguire.htm

fordfan25
11-16-2005, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Da_Godfatha:
Pffft http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif And I suppose the UFO type VVS aircraft is not propaganda?

And so many people here believe that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

welcome to the fantasy in wich we play http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

fordfan25
11-16-2005, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
honestly, not trying to start qa flame thread

i really wish to know, that, if what i have heard (any quotes or links to threads for this welcome!), that data for P 38 according to lockheed, and AFAIK naca and/or usaaf data, was dismissed by Oleg as "propaganda"

1) did Oleg really say this?
if so, as to which data exactly did he say this to? lockheed? usaaf? naca?

2) does anyone know, or at least have a good guess as to just where, or from whom Oleg DID get his P 38 data?


it would be nice to know where any and all of his data for all FB types, and those not even in FB is, if only just to have another source for our interest in warbirds

"2) does anyone know, or at least have a good guess as to just where, or from whom Oleg DID get his P 38 data?" O i got a good guess as to wear he pulled the data from but id rather not get banned today http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

p1ngu666
11-16-2005, 03:24 PM
its only the la series with slats, and yakp3 and i185 that have the joke fm/dm's i think.

the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

LStarosta
11-16-2005, 03:29 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:


the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

No, you just suck at flying n00b planes r0xx0rz!11!1!oenoenoneone

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif

crazyivan1970
11-16-2005, 03:29 PM
IBTL soon...

fordfan25
11-16-2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:


the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

No, you just suck at flying n00b planes r0xx0rz!11!1!oenoenoneone

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/mockface.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

LMFAO

Fish6891
11-17-2005, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:


the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

No, you just suck at flying n00b planes r0xx0rz!11!1!oenoenoneone </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ELVEN!!!!

Chuck_Older
11-17-2005, 02:23 PM
Oleg Maddox is not a native English-speaker

the word "propaganda" has many meanings, and maybe it means more than "disinformation spread by a government to deceive it's own subjects" in this case.

maybe it even means something else to him.

let's not forget there is a certain language barrier here

Daiichidoku
11-17-2005, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Oleg Maddox is not a native English-speaker

the word "propaganda" has many meanings, and maybe it means more than "disinformation spread by a government to deceive it's own subjects" in this case.

maybe it even means something else to him.

let's not forget there is a certain language barrier here


Megile~ "IIRC he stated some data was used merely to advertise planes... but I cannot find the quote.. its years old"



assuming it was one of those "but war bonds" or "america's defender"-type wartime posters or pamplets, yea, i can see Oleg calling it propaganda, where he may have meant "promotion"



but thats the point of this thread, i wanna know what info he called propaganda.....and perhaps more importantly, where he DID get his P 38, or for that matter, most if not all of his other data

arcadeace
11-17-2005, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Daiichidoku:
it would be nice to know where any and all of his data for all FB types, and those not even in FB is, if only just to have another source for our interest in warbirds

I would like to know the sources of his data too. Personally tho I doubt he'll ever accept compiling the research to allow the community to scrutinize it. In other words we may be better off in the dark than opening up the potential for a huge can of worms.

Kuna15
11-17-2005, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its only the la series with slats, and yakp3 and i185 that have the joke fm/dm's i think.

the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

I agree on Yaks.
Only the Yak3/P do not belong in this category, since they have manouverability, relative speed, good overall perfomance and excellent guns.

WOLFMondo
11-17-2005, 03:15 PM
Originally posted by Fish6891:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LStarosta:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p1ngu666:


the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

No, you just suck at flying n00b planes r0xx0rz!11!1!oenoenoneone </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ELVEN!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Thats my line!:P

Kocur_
11-17-2005, 03:56 PM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
its only the la series with slats, and yakp3 and i185 that have the joke fm/dm's i think.

the yaks and il2s are some of the most difficult aircraft to fly actully

Agreed. Everything is fine until its about the VVS "stars". Those suddenly boost ahead of other, more regular planes and become best at eveything - quite impossible IRL.
The most painful case is Yak-3(P). Being lighter had also smaller wings than Yak-1, so being better climber than previous Yaks, was actually worse turner - from 18-19sec for late Yak-1b to 21 sec for Yak-3. But in game that relation is not reflected at all, and so we have all 'pros' of changes between Yak-1 to Yak-3 but without 'cons'. And 'no-cons' was there...only in propaganda.
So sad.

darkhorizon11
11-17-2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Oleg Maddox is not a native English-speaker

the word "propaganda" has many meanings, and maybe it means more than "disinformation spread by a government to deceive it's own subjects" in this case.

maybe it even means something else to him.

let's not forget there is a certain language barrier here

Good point. Everyone takes everything wayyyy to literally in this forum. Not to knock Oleg but if you look at some of his posts there pretty blocky and hard to understand I ussually go through it two or three times.

At any rate its really easy for one person to decipher something totally different than another. Remember people have a tendency to hear or read what they want.

VW-IceFire
11-17-2005, 07:01 PM
Originally posted by Chuck_Older:
Oleg Maddox is not a native English-speaker

the word "propaganda" has many meanings, and maybe it means more than "disinformation spread by a government to deceive it's own subjects" in this case.

maybe it even means something else to him.

let's not forget there is a certain language barrier here
I had not thought of that and applied the full meaning of propoganda.

Personally I had assumed that, living under the previous regime as it was, a government misleading the populace is more a reality than it is for the Western perspective....on the other hand were starting to learn that lesson (as a group - individually this is easy to some).

Still...gun camera footage, although collected and shown for propoganda purposes is not something that I suspect was edited. The same with training videos...although certainly putting a positive spin on things in the presentation...the actual footage itself is hard to fake.

I can't see the P-38 having anything more to it than any other type when it comes to misleading information. Sure its out there and one must be a skeptic but lets not take it too far.

Daiichidoku
11-17-2005, 07:02 PM
Originally posted by darkhorizon11:

Good point. Everyone takes everything wayyyy to literally in this forum. Not to knock Oleg but if you look at some of his posts there pretty blocky and hard to understand I ussually go through it two or three times.

At any rate its really easy for one person to decipher something totally different than another. Remember people have a tendency to hear or read what they want.



why, thank you, DarkHorizon...as a matter of fact, yea, I am pretty **** sexy...but im not the VERY best pilot out there, you flatter mehttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif