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VikingGrandad
02-19-2008, 03:54 PM
1. Why do I get an 'unlimited' option in my Type VIIC's engine upgrade menu?

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/54978024.jpg

I searched for the word "unlimited" in the GWX2 manual, and found this reference in the English translation of the 'French fix for GWX' (optional mod) description:


From now, you will notice the word "unlimited" in the submarine update screen whenever you have not yet modified your U-boat. This is due to game limits, as GWX uses the same word that appears when you ask for an in-game weather report (e.g., "visibility unlimited"). After considering these game limits, we have left the visibility part of the weather report unchanged, even though it means the status of your non-modified U-boat is now "unlimited."

Maybe I'm being a little thick, but I don't understand that explanation! Also, I have modified my boat with upgrades to the hydrophones, engines and batteries - so surely I'm not meant to see the "unlimited" option?


2. Why does my WO "provide assistance" when I have enabled the "No weapon officer assistance" option in the difficulty settings (85%)? The buttons for asking the WO for target identification and torpedo solution are disabled. The WO's targeting tasks happen automatically - like they do with the "No weapon officer assistance" option switched off. I think I had this problem in a latter career in GWX 1.03 too. I don't use manual targeting, but I like to do some of the WO functions sometimes, or at least ask him to do it rather than have it done automatically. Is this a GWX2 issue or some weird thing with my SH3 installation?


I use SH3 Commander 2.7 (with GWX2 fixes installed) and the following mods (mostly fixes, graphics and sounds) over a clean install of SH3 and GWX2:

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/e61a38e1.jpg


I'd appreciate any suggestions or advice http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Danlisa
02-20-2008, 02:42 AM
Hi VG

The 'Unlimited' text that appears from time to time results from SH3 sharing files. Basically, we changed the visibility responses (aka FOG values) from your watch officer from 'None' (aka No Fog) to 'Unlimited' (aka visibility is 100%). We did this because visibility is not limited to whether it's foggy or not. Unfortunately, we can't remove the word 'unlimited', while keeping the new report texts. Alas Klar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

What kind of assistance do you get from the WO when the option is off. Is it that your optics automatically plot (on the TDC screen) the tragectery/course of the torps? If so, I think this is the case in all mods. The optics will always auto plot & auto track the course of your torp, depending on where your optics are pointing. With WO assistance off, you should only have to ID the target and set the speed/distance/course of the target (or ask the WO).

I need a little more info if I'm way off.

VikingGrandad
02-20-2008, 03:25 AM
Thanks for the responses, danlisa http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Originally posted by danlisa:
The 'Unlimited' text that appears from time to time results from SH3 sharing files. Basically, we changed the visibility responses (aka FOG values) from your watch officer from 'None' (aka No Fog) to 'Unlimited' (aka visibility is 100%). We did this because visibility is not limited to whether it's foggy or not. Unfortunately, we can't remove the word 'unlimited', while keeping the new report texts. Alas Klar. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

OK, I now generally understand the issue, but (just out of curiosity!) how does a word intended for in-game officer messages end up in the 'Engine Upgrades' menu?


Originally posted by danlisa:
What kind of assistance do you get from the WO when the option is off.

Exactly the same as when this option is switched on!


Originally posted by danlisa:
Is it that your optics automatically plot (on the TDC screen) the tragectery/course of the torps? If so, I think this is the case in all mods. The optics will always auto plot & auto track the course of your torp, depending on where your optics are pointing.

Yes, that is the case, but that part is OK http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Originally posted by danlisa:
With WO assistance off, you should only have to ID the target and set the speed/distance/course of the target (or ask the WO).

Yep - and that's exactly what is NOT happening....! I have WO assistance off, yet he always automatically IDs the target etc - just like he does when WO assistance is on. I can't ask him to ID the target, etc.

For example, when I move the scope cross-hairs over a target, the notebook in the top right of the scope screen automatically displays the target type (e.g. 'Medium Cargo') and the range, etc. I can't ask the WO for the target ID, range, etc, because the two buttons in the WO's menu ('ID target' and 'plot solution', or whatever they're called) are visible but disabled (greyed out) so I can't click them.

What I'm trying to say is that, with the 'No WO assistance' option switched on, it correctly increases the game difficulty percentage, but has no effect in the game - as if the game is ignoring this setting. All other difficulty settings I use (e.g. limited fuel, limited batteries, etc) work fine.

I hope that makes sense!

Danlisa
02-20-2008, 04:16 AM
OK, I now generally understand the issue, but (just out of curiosity!) how does a word intended for in-game officer messages end up in the 'Engine Upgrades' menu?

We could ask the original devs why they took this shortcut but basically, both text entires share the same ID, therefore when the game calls on the ID (in either the upgrades screen or ingame) there is only the one file entry to reference. However, I have not looked at this issue closely, so it maybe possible to create a second ID for the upgrades menu (will be the easiest to work with/fix). Although, in most cases this aspect is hardcoded.


For example, when I move the scope cross-hairs over a target, the notebook in the top right of the scope screen automatically displays the target type (e.g. 'Medium Cargo') and the range, etc. I can't ask the WO for the target ID, range, etc, because the two buttons in the WO's menu ('ID target' and 'plot solution', or whatever they're called) are visible but disabled (greyed out) so I can't click them.

What I'm trying to say is that, with the 'No WO assistance' option switched on, it correctly increases the game difficulty percentage, but has no effect in the game - as if the game is ignoring this setting. All other difficulty settings I use (e.g. limited fuel, limited batteries, etc) work fine.

Without checking my copy of GWX 2.0, I can't really comment on your issue with the WO assistance much more. I will check my game as soon as I can. At the very least, we will find out if it's a GWX issue or your install. Needless to say, if it's GWX, it will be fixed.

VikingGrandad
02-20-2008, 06:35 AM
Anything you can find out would be much appreciated!

Thanks again http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Danlisa
02-20-2008, 03:37 PM
I'm sorry it's took so long to get back to you.

I have run clean installations of GWX 2.0, 1.03, 1.0 and Stock 1.4b and they all display the same issues.

I used these settings:
http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/danlisa_photo/SH3Img20-2-2008_20374_70.jpg

With these settings, in all versions I posted above, scrolling any optics across a ship will automatically put the info on the targetting notepad.

While I have asked the GWX team to verify my findings, you may be the first to identify a new stock bug in a long time.

Danlisa
02-21-2008, 01:10 AM
Morning VG.

I've been thinking about this (as you do).

These realism settings (and effects of) are certainly hardcoded and as such we couldn't have changed them if we wanted to.

What I assume is happening is that the WO Assistance is directly linked/tied into the Manual Targeting option. So, if you enabled the Manual Targeting option AND then had No WO Assistance turned off, you will still manually have to ID all ships BUT could ask the WO to compute the Range, Speed & AOB.

I think the No WO Assistance is meant to compliment the Manual Targeting option.

However, the remaining question is, that if this is the case, "Why is there a realism % increase" when selecting the option. Due to the game limitation of not having multiple options for a given choice, at the moment, it seems that selecting No WO Assistance (by itself) is a free realism increase, thus increasing your renown award.

VikingGrandad
02-21-2008, 09:18 AM
Hi danlisa

Sorry, I haven't had time to respond to your posts until now.

Hmmm, so I may have discovered a new bug? That's a rather dubious honour!

It's strange that you were able to consistently replicate the 'No WO assistance' issue in all those versions of SH3/GWX, because I can categorically say that I've played SH3 GWX (1.03) with the 'No WO assistance' option switched on, with no manual targeting - and the WO behaved as he should! (as did the WO's menu buttons for target ID, range etc).

Let me explain my history with this problem:


1. Last year, I played a career with GWX 1.03, and decided to use the 'No WO assistance' option for the first time - and it worked fine. I distinctly remember I had to ask the WO to identify targets and provide the range etc. I also had to ask him to do it again when the target got nearer the critical +/- 5° gyroangle to ensure I got accurate info in the TDC screen before launching my torp. I definitely didn't use the manual targeting option, because I've never taken the time to learn it. So, I know it is possible to make this option work without manual targeting. From memory, one small difference was that I didn't use the 'limited fuel' option, because I was exploring new areas of the map.

2. Later, I started a new career in GWX 1.03, and the 'No WO assistance' option no longer had any effect in the game. I think it stopped working from the very beginning of that career. I assumed I'd screwed up my installation somehow (I had a lot of mods installed), but because the game ran OK and GWX2 had been announced, I decided to wait for the new version rather than do a fresh install with GWX 1.03. I'm fairly sure I had 'limited fuel' switched on for this career, but I'm not 100% on that.

3. When I got GWX2, I completely wiped SH3 off my system, did a fresh install, patched it, installed GWX2 and started a new career. So I was really surprised to see the WO problem come back!


Does this shed any light on the problem? Surely I can't be the only person to ever play SH3 with the 'no WO assistance' option but no manual targeting?


PS - what's with the 'Retired' stamp on your sig? Have you left the GW team?

Danlisa
02-21-2008, 10:54 AM
Yep, VG, it is very odd because I could swear I remember trying the No WO Assistance option myself and it worked but I can't remember whether I had Manual Targeting enabled or not.

Let me take a shot in the dark here, do you have SH3 installed in a non-default location or program folder? At the moment, it's the only thing that may have skewed my test as all the copies I tried to replicate this issue on were unorthodox locations. As such, I will fully uninstall all copies I have on my HDD and try again with a standard install. Also, do you install from disc or use a backed up copy of the program folder?

During my tests, I did notice the possible causation of this issue. There are 2 gamesettings.cfg files, 1 located in the SH3 folder in My Docs and the other in the main program folder. There is a line at the very end of the cfg which governs the enabled/disabled value of the Auto Targeting/ID option within the game. In all tests I ran, this cfg was not updated following the realism option changes. I will also, run this clean install without Cmdr being installed. However, at the moment the main issue is that this trigger/option is definitely hardcoded, which is really stumping everyone I have asked (aswell as myself).

You made this point in your post:


Last year, I played a career with GWX 1.03, and decided to use the 'No WO assistance' option for the first time - and it worked fine. I distinctly remember I had to ask the WO to identify targets and provide the range etc. I also had to ask him to do it again when the target got nearer the critical +/- 5? gyroangle to ensure I got accurate info in the TDC screen before launching my torp.

This confuses me somewhat. What you describe above is what you'd expect if you have Manual Targeting on with WO assistance enabled

With only the No WO Assistance option enabled, you should NOT have the option to ask the WO to update the range, speed & AOB. These options to ask the WO are only available if you have Manual Targeting enabled with No WO Assistance unselected.

I honestly think that what you are asking requires you to use Manual Targeting with WO Assistance. This will mean that you need to ID the contacts but have the option to ask the WO to update the targeting notepad/TDC settings. This would explain the large realism % increase if you use NO WO Assistance because it's a large jump in realism if you are already using Manual Targeting.

Am I making sense? Gotta be honest, it's frying my brain a little.

Anyway, I shall continue my investigation.


PS - what's with the 'Retired' stamp on your sig? Have you left the GW team?

LOL, you can never leave.

In reality, I spend 9hrs a day (@ work) in front of a PC, then I used to go home and spend another 5 working on/testing GWX. All the while, my wife was playing second fiddle. Now, that we are expecting our first child in May, I can ill afford to spend this amount of time with GWX. Besides, our relationship was becoming rather strained because of it.

That said, my allegiance to GWX and my friends on the team remains and while I can't maintain the online presence I used to, I have told them that I will always feel responsible for GWX and it's users and indeed if the team ever need my help with anything, I am available. Regards the sig, well, I made the original and I like it and wanted to keep it, so without falsifying my status on the team, I had to make some changes so not to mislead anyone.

Danlisa
02-21-2008, 02:24 PM
Hi VG, here's the solution.

Replicate these Realism Settings:

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/danlisa_photo/SH3Img21-2-2008_21946_40.jpg

Now, with these settings, you not only meet your mentioned realism % (84%) but you also have WO assistance (i.e no greyed out buttons).

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s64/danlisa_photo/SH3Img21-2-2008_21928_84.jpg

What you will notice, that most ships have GENERIC titles aka Cargo or Replenishment, however some will appear as normal i.e like the Aux Cruiser in my example. Press L to lock onto your target, this is the time when you can either ID it yourself or ask the WO to do it.

Once the ship is ID'd, you can ask the WO to update the targeting notepad. There is a small delay (as if he's calculating it) and then the values appear.

Sink em all. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VikingGrandad
02-26-2008, 05:32 PM
Hi again danlisa http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Many thanks for taking the time to investigate this for me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Sorry for not getting back to you sooner. I'm bogged down with work, and haven't had much time to check in to the forums.


With only the No WO Assistance option enabled, you should NOT have the option to ask the WO to update the range, speed & AOB. These options to ask the WO are only available if you have Manual Targeting enabled with No WO Assistance unselected.

I honestly think that what you are asking requires you to use Manual Targeting with WO Assistance. This will mean that you need to ID the contacts but have the option to ask the WO to update the targeting notepad/TDC settings. This would explain the large realism % increase if you use NO WO Assistance because it's a large jump in realism if you are already using Manual Targeting.

Am I making sense? Gotta be honest, it's frying my brain a little.

Mine too! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

What you're saying about the relationship between the 'no WO assistance' and manual targeting settings certainly sounds logical to me. It doesn't fit with what I remember, but I have no way of checking if what I remember was true, or if my brain is a little fried...


Let me take a shot in the dark here, do you have SH3 installed in a non-default location or program folder?

My current SH3 installation is in the default place, but I used to keep it in a different location (can't remember if that was when I was using 'no WO assistance' or not though).

Also, I was wrong when I previously mentioned my realism level as 85% - it was 80% with the no WO option switched on.

Anyway, the good thing is that you've inspired me to try proper manual targeting, at long last http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I just ran a quick ship-sinking tutorial in the Naval Academy, to get the hang of the basics. The AOB settings took some getting used to, but after some perseverance I got my head around it, and got a kill!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/698dd6dd.jpg

The ship was motionless to begin with - so ID-ing the target, measuring the mast height, estimating the AOB and tracking the speed were all fairly easy to get right. The plotted torpedo solution looked correct on the TDC screen too. But, when the torpedo got near, the ship spotted it, started moving forwards and managed to evade the torp. When the ship stopped again, I set up the attack but switched to manual input on the TDC screen, adjusted the target speed from 0kts to 5kts and aimed at the scope cross-hairs on the bow. This time the ship couldn't move fast enough to evade the torp and received a hit to the keel amidships. Very rewarding indeed, even if it was a sitting duck in perfect conditions!

This could give SH3 yet another whole new lease of life for me! As soon as I get time, I'll practice some more, and read up on some of the finer points of manual targeting.


I hope you don't mind me asking you about a couple more things...


1. Do you know exactly how this setting affects the game? (taken from my GameplaySettings.cfg file in the My Documents > SH3 folder)

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">[MiscSettings]
AlwaysAutotargeting=0,0,0,0,0;for warships, merchants, uboats, air and, respectively, land targets</pre>

Is it a way of restricting manual targeting to certain types of target? I don't think I'd want to do that, I'm just curious as there's no interface for this setting in the game menu.


2. I noticed the bearing tool is a little off in my map screen.

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/VikingG/1d8975ee.jpg

Heading is zero, and the rudder is centered, but the 0&deg; mark is not quite in line with the plotted course. I think I've heard of this issue before - is it a stock bug?


PS - glad to hear your retirement from the GW team is for all the right reasons http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Danlisa
02-27-2008, 01:39 AM
Nice move into manual targeting. I'll be honest, I've not learnt it yet but may when time allows.

This is the most endearing aspect to SH3/GWX with a simple change to the realism settings, the game takes on a whole new meaning. Once you master manual targeting, try with No External Views activated (I know, I like the eye-candy too) but even if for only one patrol, it changes the game entirely. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


1. Do you know exactly how this setting affects the game? (taken from my GameplaySettings.cfg file in the My Documents > SH3 folder)

[MiscSettings]
AlwaysAutotargeting=0,0,0,0,0;for warships, merchants, uboats, air and, respectively, land targets

Is it a way of restricting manual targeting to certain types of target? I don't think I'd want to do that, I'm just curious as there's no interface for this setting in the game menu.

That's certainly the way I read it. Usually 0 = Off & 1 = On however, I have not looked any closer at this. It may indeed be possible to edit this cfg to allow different types to have different properties. I'm actually going to follow this up a bit more.


2. I noticed the bearing tool is a little off in my map screen.

Heading is zero, and the rudder is centered, but the 0? mark is not quite in line with the plotted course. I think I've heard of this issue before - is it a stock bug?


Aha. You've found my kryptonite. I have spent countless hours trying to correct this offset. With no luck I might add. It certainly seems to be a stock issue (although the bearing overlay is not stock). The strange thing is (follow me on this) if you conduct a turn to Port to a prearranged course/heading, the overlay & 0 degrees align perfectly, whereas a turn to Starboard always results in a 2-3 degree offset. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

However, please note, it is only the Overlay that is offset, not the U-Boat so there is no need to account for this in any AOB calculations.

VikingGrandad
03-03-2008, 03:48 PM
Again, thank you danlisa http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I've not had chance to play SH3 since my previous post in this thread, but I'm glad to know that the bearing overlay bug has no effect on AOB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif