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TacticalYak3
01-20-2005, 12:04 PM
Somewhat of a repeat post but again I need to inquire -

For folks with experience over a number of game versions/patches, are you also finding that the I-16 has changed rather significantly?

I seem now to really struggle with retenting energy in turns, and usually flat spin her a couple of times each gaming session if I'm not being really (really) careful.

I have so many fond memories of performing tight turns without such a loss of energy.

I have no idea whether this is realistic. All I know is that my dear I-16 is, well, not so dear to me anymore. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

TactS!

p1ngu666
01-20-2005, 01:32 PM
yep
think all russian aircraft are being made worse
cant out turn 109s in my il2 (brake turns i mean)

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-20-2005, 02:23 PM
With 3.03 I was getting kicked about on a dogfight server flying a `44 plane among other `44 planes and decided to take the I16...

Several `44 and `45 uber aircraft pilots came charging after little `ole me. I shot 2 of them down and 2 smashed into the ground trying to stall-turn with me.

I love taking on these noobs who think "Cos it`s a little I16, it`s easy meat!"

Anyway, there was one case where I stalled out, where previously I wouldn`t have and that was a surprise. It`s still in 3.04.Certainly, it is now harder to make tight turns in the I16. Not too bad and she still kicks butt, but you have to take care. The poor I16 - she gets battered all the time...

LStarosta
01-20-2005, 02:29 PM
The I16 is easy meat, as long as you're not ******ed enough to try to turn with it.

Capt_Haddock
01-20-2005, 02:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
... it is now harder to make tight turns in the I16. Not too bad and she still kicks butt, but you have to take care. The poor I16 - she gets battered all the time... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh dear. What a shame http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg

civildog
01-20-2005, 03:56 PM
Yeah, my poor girl gets picked on a lot too, that' why she look like this:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/LilMule.jpg
(But she still kicks any Hun's butt who is stupid enough try to dogfight rather than BnZ me!)

ThreeCrow
01-20-2005, 04:37 PM
Civil Dog,

Is that "Rasputin" in your cockpit? Is my default pilot for the I-16.

Cheers

73GIAP_Milan
01-20-2005, 04:37 PM
CivilDog, that is some fancy looking skin dude http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I-16 with attitude - love it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

civildog
01-20-2005, 05:39 PM
Thanks all!

No, not Rasputin, it's me from the pic on my work ID card. I guess I just have that kind of face.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/civildog/wintermule.jpg

3.JG51_BigBear
01-20-2005, 05:48 PM
I still think the I-16 is great. A lot of the Russian planes haven't gotten tweaked flight models in a while and I think it was starting to show. I don't know if they're correct but they do seem to be behaving more like real aircraft.

p1ngu666
01-20-2005, 05:58 PM
i think rata was changed in pf 1.0

im not sure they havent been tweaked, but tweaked down, they are worse than before tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

CV8_Dudeness
01-20-2005, 09:38 PM
oh just great , some outrageously sized pics , just what any thread needs . . .

as for the I-16 , its like the Chaika now , change happened in AEP & seems the same to me in PF

Rudder makes it spin easy , being very carefull & smooth is your only option

p1ngu666
01-20-2005, 10:11 PM
maybe, i noticed it in pf tho http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

civildog
01-20-2005, 10:20 PM
CV8_Dudeness -

Gee, sorry about that, next time I'll try to remember not everyone has a high speed connection.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Capt_Haddock
01-21-2005, 01:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
i think rata was changed in pf 1.0
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

"Mosca" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19bannerh.jpg
http://www.haddock.f2s.com/sig/F19banner.jpg

BaldieJr
01-21-2005, 02:21 AM
I ran I-153 vs I-153 in HL tonight... hadn't done that in awhile.

One thing I noticed: carbs starve during a tail slide. I don't recall it doing that before.

Not that its important, but good tail slides are like good sex. I just can't stop doing them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

F19_Orheim
01-21-2005, 03:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BaldieJr:
I ran I-153 vs I-153 in HL tonight... hadn't done that in awhile.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
AND YOU DIDN'T TELL ME?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Unfortunately F19_Cr@pGalore is out off commission, I had to be kind to my sister-in-law, she desperatley needed a computer for her studies at University... so I sent her my old 1 Ghz Compaq, which unfortunately also was my Il2 Server...

BaldieJr
01-21-2005, 11:11 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I didn't know I'd be hosting! I rarely do it nowadays.

I'm working on a new DF mission using the small-flat-boring map (speedy!). I'm thinking I can host 16 easily, so I'll probably do 4 vs 4 vs 4 vs 4 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That should be fun http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If there is interest, I'll make a habit of hosting, but I wont be on HL untill 1 AM Eastern US time.

PBNA-Boosher
01-21-2005, 12:02 PM
The I-16 RoXors!

The P-11c Pwnz!

Atomic_Marten
01-21-2005, 12:09 PM
Last time online I was bustin 109s (E&F models) big time online on UK-Dedicated. They really did not have chance on low alt fights if they run outta energy.

That was on merged 3.03. Maybe they change I16 in 3.04? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

p1ngu666
01-21-2005, 01:21 PM
anyone know if the neg g cut out should stop the engine so easily?

happened in a dive , 1 or 2 secs of strong neg g, but i was at 400+kph, engine was still turnin, pull up and no engine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
flyin cr42 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

wondering if cut out should be temporary, or perminant http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

civildog
01-21-2005, 04:58 PM
1) Yes, it should cut out easily because the carburator is getting starved of fuel. Happens in inverted flight, too, same with some other planes when inverted for a long time unless they have injectors.

2) It should restart if there's enough time to get the prop spinning to turn the engine over. It's been so long since I've killed my engine this way i haven't noticed a difference since the early patches. It seemed to be harder in IL2 and early patches of FB, though.

'sides...if I do kill my engine I doubt I'll be high enough to get the prop moving for an airstart - the Ishak is a low level animal.

SeaFireLIV
01-21-2005, 05:14 PM
I hated it at first when suddenly the I16 cut out like this - now I love it, partly becuase this could have been an UBER plane, but the neg-G actually makes it a plane for those with a bit of skill. I really think if you can fly an I16 in a heated dogfight and get kills you`ve actually got the makings of a good pilot (At least it`s one of the ways of shoeing a reasonably good pilot)! I even have a pretty good idea in my mind of how the liquid is sloshing around in the engine, but I actually don`t really know..

Has anyone got a cut away diagram of what exactly happens when an engine cuts out under neg-G conditions?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v31/SeaFireLIV/Sveno.jpg

civildog
01-21-2005, 06:22 PM
You don't need a diagram because the fuel isn't "sloshing around in the engine". Fuel injectors shoot the fuel under pressure directly into the cylinders while a carburator mixes the fuel and then it's sucked into the cylinders as any in 4-stroke auto engine.

Problem is, that when you turn the plane upside down or induce negative gee, the fuel won't go out into the cylinders anymore because it's not under enough pressure. It might even create a vapor-lock (like could happen in gravity-fed overwing fuel systems from WW1 or later like-equipped craft) or flood the carb. The problem is bad enough in a V-cylinder arrangement, but you can imagine how much worse it would be for a rotary.

The early Spitfires had the same problem until the interm fix of a new diaphram valve carburator was developed. Later fuel injection was introduced, but the Germans were doing from the start.

When the I-16 was built fuel injection wasn't even know of yet.

NorrisMcWhirter
01-21-2005, 06:58 PM
Hi,

I was flying the I-16 earlier tonight and didn't notice any real difference in performance from the last time I flew it which was about a week ago. I was PK'd once but that's to be expected in it..otherwise, it chewed up 109Es/Fs very effectively as per usual if they were lured into a turn fight. E-retention felt as it did before.

Cheers,
Norris

SeaFireLIV
01-21-2005, 07:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
You don't need a diagram because the fuel isn't "sloshing around in the engine". Fuel injectors shoot the fuel under pressure directly into the cylinders while a carburator mixes the fuel and then it's sucked into the cylinders as any in 4-stroke auto engine.

Problem is, that when you turn the plane upside down or induce negative gee, the fuel won't go out into the cylinders anymore because it's not under enough pressure. It might even create a vapor-lock (like could happen in gravity-fed overwing fuel systems from WW1 or later like-equipped craft) or flood the carb. The problem is bad enough in a V-cylinder arrangement, but you can imagine how much worse it would be for a rotary.

The early Spitfires had the same problem until the interm fix of a new diaphram valve carburator was developed. Later fuel injection was introduced, but the Germans were doing from the start.

When the I-16 was built fuel injection wasn't even know of yet. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ok, thnx. Hmm, no more pressure to `shoot` in the fuel, no more engine power cos no fuel getting in! Thanx for educating this man a little. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

han freak solo
01-21-2005, 07:57 PM
Once in a while you can get a restart after the negative g problem. But, you got to have some altitude. If you've got altitude, dive, dive, dive, then do a high g pullout. Just as things go a bit black, hit the starter.

Just don't hit the starter AT ALL until you have the positive g's in your favor.

heywooood
01-21-2005, 08:10 PM
you know - I saw this thread and then went and flew my I-16...wont post the skin though - dont want to disrupt this nice thread again...and for the first time - I had to adjust mixture...I was climbing to intercept a flight of He111's and suddenly the engine lags and tries to quit...I was not in neg-g situation so I did a quick external view...brown smoke from the exaust stacks...

I have always used CEM and the mixture has never needed adjusting....I dialed it down to 70% and the mule recovered...cool.

BtW - have you all noticed that in allied bombers - all of the crew have US flight gear on - not just the pilot...

Used to be that you would select US pilot skin, for US B17 for instance, only to see the pilot in the khaki garb but everyone else in Russian blue togs...

civildog
01-22-2005, 01:28 AM
In the original IL2...one of the ways it was better (remember the supercharger intake whistle in the 109s as you throttled up and down?) was that smoke effect when you flew the I-16 and I-153 too high without adjust the mixture.

I used to get premature detontations in the engines of planes, too if I didn't have the right prop pitch setting. Loud popping and banging in the engine.

Either I'm so good now that I avoid all that by doing the right things w/out even thinking about it (which I doubt!!), or all these neat little touches have been gone for a while.

Mulleteer
01-22-2005, 02:21 AM
I-16 rules

http://kotisivu.mtv3.fi/gutu/images/i16-hkitty-up.jpg

civildog
01-22-2005, 09:39 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Now that'll scare the Hun!

Aero_Shodanjo
01-23-2005, 08:16 AM
OMG!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

A solid proof that looks can kill http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

73GIAP_Milan
01-23-2005, 01:31 PM
Whoa!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Flying bullet magnet ??? Hello Kittie, Domokun and pink paintjob = recipe for the suicidal maniac ?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Hydra444
01-23-2005, 03:29 PM
Yeah,I noticed that the I-16 seems to fly differently as well since I installed 3.04.I just can't put my finger on it,it just doesn't seem to handle like it used to in previous builds.Although,I still think that its a beast of an a/c still.

FI_Willie
01-23-2005, 07:22 PM
Can I correct a bit on the negative G problem with the engine cutting out?

The problem comes when the carb starves for fuel. Those planes had a carb similar to an an automobile carb except that they were gravity fed.

The fuel tank was mounted higher than the carb and when the plane was level or under a positive g load, fuel would flow to carb. With neg G the fuel flowed back to the tank from the carb or just didn't flow at all. Hence the engine starved.

Later on fuel systems progressed to pressurized carbs that had a pump pushing fuel to the carb and a "flop tube" in the tank that would keep the fuel pick up in the fuel if the plane was in an unusual attitude or negative G load. Injection systems are also pressurized systems, some have throttle body type injection and some have intake port injection.

The I-16 is a sweetheart to go dancing with. She may be a little fat chick but she sure has some good moves. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hydra444
01-23-2005, 07:30 PM
Hey,at a party,everyone rides the "beer-keg" LOL Even fat chicks need love too

WTE_Ibis
01-23-2005, 08:58 PM
I found this one hard to shoot down.

TacticalYak3
01-23-2005, 09:08 PM
Started playing yet another Russian offline campaign (DGEN).

Flew about 5 missions today in the I-16 models 18 and 24. Stalled only once, and that being in the model 18. Recovered. The I-16 is still a superior turnfighter against the proper BF-109 models. Got my kills and all but still find her loosing a lot of energy on turns (perhaps my memory isn't what it use to be http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

With regards to the campaigns, whether it's improved graphics (ATI software), using the latest TrackIR software and new deadzone settings, or the improvements in the game itself since PF, been really enjoying these missions again.

I also like the variety of planes available now for my Russian campaign. Yes all the favourites - I-16, Mig-3, La-5/7, Yak-1/3/9, but now also Spitfire, P-63, and P-38 (plus several others that escape my memory - which I said was going http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif).

Anyway, thanks for all the comments so far (and thanks :FI:Willie too!)

And here's a little thank you for your participation and to those who also enjoy flying this little plane - regards!

http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/ohearns/IL-2%20Sturmovik/Forum%20Image%20Gallery/I16.jpg

civildog
01-23-2005, 09:28 PM
Is that one of those New Zealand I-16's or ????

JR_Greenhorn
01-23-2005, 10:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CivilDog:
Gee, sorry about that [large screenshot], next time I'll try to remember not everyone has a high speed connection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's more than just the connection, CivilDog. Some of us have smallish screens with resolution settings that prevent the picture from being seen all at once. That's not a big deal, but it becomes tough to read text in posts by scrolling back and forth for the rest of the thread. It's more of a courtesy issue than anything else.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Hmm, no more pressure to `shoot` in the fuel, no more engine power cos no fuel getting in! Thanx for educating this man a little. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, there is a better way to think of how the negative-g cutout happens in a carburetted engine.
Imagine a soft drink container from a fast food joint, half full of soda. Now imagine that you are the engine, sucking on the straw and consuming soda. Now, induce negative-g loading, by turning the soft drink container upside down. The soda sloshes away from the end of the straw, and you suck air instead of soda. If it takes too long for the container to be righted and the soda to slosh back to the end of the straw, the engine will have stalled in the meantime, and there will be no suction at the end of the straw.

I hope that analogy makes sense.

WTE_Galway
01-23-2005, 11:46 PM
hate to spoil all the automobile analogies


but more often than not aero engines flood under negative G rather than starve .. this is definitely the case with the merlin .. not sure about the I16

regardless of the reason .. flood or starve .. for the pilot the result is the same, engine no go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SeaFireLIV
01-24-2005, 01:12 AM
Can some one provide a diagram? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif oh to hell with it, I`m off to the library...again. (Actually, I`ve got the general idea, but too many cooks just make me doubt again).

I guess the forums have just too many opinions...