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View Full Version : Clouds.....a lifesaver online. (some tips) (longish)



F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 06:17 AM
I really discovered the benefits of clouds in the early days of the server GreaterGreen.
(still one of the absolutely best with very well made maps).

My nowadays very successful "cloudactivity" is much thanks to a GG regular named Greenwidth because he was often on my tail in the early days and I soon understood that I couldnt shake him off any other way than hiding in clouds. Escaping from Greenwidth was a frequent event and I still have the pleasure to escape from him occasionally. ( I always recorded tracks and Greenwidth had nr.44 on his fuselage)
MY reasonably good "look around routine" is also
thanks to the "Greenwidth effect" as I jokingly called it.

-----------------------

The clouds work partly in a similar way as in real life. When U get into it everything becomes white for U, but u may still be seen from outside. The best way to spot a plane in a cloud is from below because the cloudlayer is thinner from below than from a horisontal view.
It can be spotted from above aswell but then the spotter have to roll the plane inverted or fly in energy bleeding turns and are often in a slight dive wich really messes up effective spotting.

The trick in escaping in clouds is to put as much cloud between u and the chaser as possible, and when that is achieved u change direction to shake him off (hopefully).
A smart chaser will go below the cloud as soon as U enter it and if U are too low in the cloud U will be clearly visible to the enemy. Therefore I always assume that the attacker is experienced ( I think; it must be Greenwidth http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif )And often start by going into the lower part of the cloud and climb high into it and change direction. Sometimes I go back below or above the cloud to see if I can spot him again.
If he still is behind I repeat, and if my goal is to escape and go home I fly in this manner up and down in the top and bottom of the cloud.
This works about 7 of 10 times and even though I often fly cr@pier crates than my opponents I this way have a good chance to get into a position where my guns points at the enemy. This option wouldnt be available in the open.

There is ofcourse a risk that the enemy will find u, by chance or simply because he turned in the same direction, and shoot u despite your efforts to hide in clouds. But In the open the risk to get shot is often greater if u are in an inferior plane.

A good idea is to watch your gaughes in the cloud so u always know wich way is up, so when u change directions, see too it that u dont fall out of the cloud if that is not your intention and wach your speed so u dont lose to much energy when changing direction. This last is very important in planes with lazy accelleration and/or poor climb (hurricane, stuka and il2 doubleseaters for example).

Clouds are also excellent for cooling down an overheated engine in prolonged battles.

-----------------

Some say that clouds are useless, and I was recently shot down while trying to hide from a messer in a La5 and the messerdriver said that I couldnt hide.
What he didnt know was that I already had escaped several 109's and shot down one this way but had jammed my flaps in a dive so I couldnt get my speed up anymore and thus not climb high enough in the clouds.

I have lost so many attackers by hiding in clouds, even multiple, and I am sure that I wouldnt have made it in the open on many of those occasions.
After a long period of watching tracks I feel that many players dont use the full potential of the clouds and maybe therefore think they are no good.
These tips are no absolute guaratee for success but for me, flying crappier crates, it has made a big difference.

Hope this may help someone....and remeber to record tracks.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-------------------------------------

Additional note after the discussion on cloudsettings below this post:


Smaller clouds dissappear if one lower the settings. ( u can have medium or a higher setting ) But.... it looks like there is a distance thing involved aswell because when I got to the spot where the clouds dissappeared from distance they were there again.
I wonder if this means that the big clusters of clouds still are constant and just appear on shorter distance to spare lowend machines?
The small single clouds that vanished was still really to small to hide in IMO.
So if the same clouds still are present on the shorter ranges this will not make a big difference.
But for the one who wants to be absolutely sure I then have to recommend the lower setting of the two because all have those clouds for sure.

If my observation is true, the Tips above are valid. If not, they should be valid with the lower of the two cloudsettings.

F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 06:17 AM
I really discovered the benefits of clouds in the early days of the server GreaterGreen.
(still one of the absolutely best with very well made maps).

My nowadays very successful "cloudactivity" is much thanks to a GG regular named Greenwidth because he was often on my tail in the early days and I soon understood that I couldnt shake him off any other way than hiding in clouds. Escaping from Greenwidth was a frequent event and I still have the pleasure to escape from him occasionally. ( I always recorded tracks and Greenwidth had nr.44 on his fuselage)
MY reasonably good "look around routine" is also
thanks to the "Greenwidth effect" as I jokingly called it.

-----------------------

The clouds work partly in a similar way as in real life. When U get into it everything becomes white for U, but u may still be seen from outside. The best way to spot a plane in a cloud is from below because the cloudlayer is thinner from below than from a horisontal view.
It can be spotted from above aswell but then the spotter have to roll the plane inverted or fly in energy bleeding turns and are often in a slight dive wich really messes up effective spotting.

The trick in escaping in clouds is to put as much cloud between u and the chaser as possible, and when that is achieved u change direction to shake him off (hopefully).
A smart chaser will go below the cloud as soon as U enter it and if U are too low in the cloud U will be clearly visible to the enemy. Therefore I always assume that the attacker is experienced ( I think; it must be Greenwidth http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif )And often start by going into the lower part of the cloud and climb high into it and change direction. Sometimes I go back below or above the cloud to see if I can spot him again.
If he still is behind I repeat, and if my goal is to escape and go home I fly in this manner up and down in the top and bottom of the cloud.
This works about 7 of 10 times and even though I often fly cr@pier crates than my opponents I this way have a good chance to get into a position where my guns points at the enemy. This option wouldnt be available in the open.

There is ofcourse a risk that the enemy will find u, by chance or simply because he turned in the same direction, and shoot u despite your efforts to hide in clouds. But In the open the risk to get shot is often greater if u are in an inferior plane.

A good idea is to watch your gaughes in the cloud so u always know wich way is up, so when u change directions, see too it that u dont fall out of the cloud if that is not your intention and wach your speed so u dont lose to much energy when changing direction. This last is very important in planes with lazy accelleration and/or poor climb (hurricane, stuka and il2 doubleseaters for example).

Clouds are also excellent for cooling down an overheated engine in prolonged battles.

-----------------

Some say that clouds are useless, and I was recently shot down while trying to hide from a messer in a La5 and the messerdriver said that I couldnt hide.
What he didnt know was that I already had escaped several 109's and shot down one this way but had jammed my flaps in a dive so I couldnt get my speed up anymore and thus not climb high enough in the clouds.

I have lost so many attackers by hiding in clouds, even multiple, and I am sure that I wouldnt have made it in the open on many of those occasions.
After a long period of watching tracks I feel that many players dont use the full potential of the clouds and maybe therefore think they are no good.
These tips are no absolute guaratee for success but for me, flying crappier crates, it has made a big difference.

Hope this may help someone....and remeber to record tracks.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

-------------------------------------

Additional note after the discussion on cloudsettings below this post:


Smaller clouds dissappear if one lower the settings. ( u can have medium or a higher setting ) But.... it looks like there is a distance thing involved aswell because when I got to the spot where the clouds dissappeared from distance they were there again.
I wonder if this means that the big clusters of clouds still are constant and just appear on shorter distance to spare lowend machines?
The small single clouds that vanished was still really to small to hide in IMO.
So if the same clouds still are present on the shorter ranges this will not make a big difference.
But for the one who wants to be absolutely sure I then have to recommend the lower setting of the two because all have those clouds for sure.

If my observation is true, the Tips above are valid. If not, they should be valid with the lower of the two cloudsettings.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-12-2004, 06:28 AM
I agree and have made similar comments to my fellow pilots I've been on coms with.

I curse the clouds...and I praise the clouds depending on whether I'm offensive or defensive. Instead of going below them in an engagement, I always try to go above the clouds if my intended prey goes in. I like to think it will be easier to close quickly if I have conserved more "E".

TB

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-12-2004, 06:32 AM
Nice and all ,but dont EVER think your safe in the clouds ,i recently found that out because a squadmate turned his clouds to medium and he only sees 30% of the cloud cover on maps
he did this because whe both were shot down in clouds number of times also on greater green

so clouds are lifesavers but there are people who kinda "cheat" with it thus having an advantage while you think you have it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 06:39 AM
Good point about the energy Boltie, one never know when there is goin to be a tight situation , so energy is good. Its easier to spot a plane from below against the sky though( for me).

I agree Sunburst. Its never good to be overconfident.
Hmm strange about the settings though. I dont seem to be able to thange cloudsettings at all when on GG and have always belived that the server determined those?

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-12-2004, 06:41 AM
true about the server settings but they are only ON or OFF and not the Detail setting wich you can just change while in game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

T_O_A_D
10-12-2004, 06:42 AM
I tested this a while back only the host can adjust cloud settings. Umless you have found a awsy to force the client through the config file or something. I have 3 machines in house with IL2 and tested it on all of them.

F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 06:47 AM
I must check that...but I think mine has been locked. The only thing I have been able to change is the ground detail...I'll go and check to be sure.

Thanks for the heads up!!

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-12-2004, 06:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Ob:
Its easier to spot a plane from below against the sky though( for me). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Same here. Almost every time I'm faced with this decision, I weigh the value of easy recognition from below vs improved "E" from above. It's a much easier decision if I have a wingman as we'll do both, but for me I like being able to escape into the clouds as well if need be.

TB

F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 07:16 AM
Sunburst..U are right about the detailsettings.
Smaller clouds dissappear if one lower the settings. ( u can have medium or a higher setting )

But.... it looks like there is a distance thing involved aswell because when I got to the spot where the clouds dissappeared from distance they were there again.
I wonder if this means that the big clusters of clouds still are constant and just appear on shorter distance to spare lowend machines?
The small single clouds that vanished was still really to small to hide in IMO.

So if the same clouds still are present on the shorter ranges this will not make a big difference.
But for the one who wants to be absolutely sure I then have to recommend the lower setting of the two because all have those clouds for sure.

So...tips still valid http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 07:18 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F19_Ob:
Its easier to spot a plane from below against the sky though( for me). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Same here. Almost every time I'm faced with this decision, I weigh the value of easy recognition from below vs improved "E" from above. It's a much easier decision if I have a wingman as we'll do both, but for me I like being able to escape into the clouds as well if need be.

TB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah...I usually decide wich depending on the plane I fly. If I have poor accelleration and/or climb I try to conserve altitude.

KGr.HH-Sunburst
10-12-2004, 07:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
I tested this a while back only the host can adjust cloud settings. Umless you have found a awsy to force the client through the config file or something. I have 3 machines in house with IL2 and tested it on all of them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah i know the Host have to set the clouds to forced or off ,im not sure if this is the same for detail level wich you can set to medium
I think not because i fly alot of wing on wing with my wingleader so he sees the same as me and when i say i.e "bogey 10 o'clock low by that cloud formation"
he replies with "i dont see any clouds in that direction" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

anyway i fly FW190 90% of the time so i need the clouds alot because i cannot stay and fight with spits and stuff like that, so they make a good escape for me although i know they are not 100% secure its better than the alternative http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MOhz
10-12-2004, 09:02 AM
totally agree! clouds can change situations alright! and of course you should never feel safe... since i fly 190 i never feel safe anyway and that saves my skin often enough... but yeah i also like how you talk about inferior planes and then give one example of a la5, lol. it maybe inferior to its biger bro, but hehehehe...

greetings

F19_Ob
10-12-2004, 10:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MOhz:
yeah i also like how you talk about inferior planes and then give one example of a la5, lol. it maybe inferior to its biger bro, but hehehehe...

greetings <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


I assume U mean my example above? (didnt see anyone else mention it) I didnt mean the La5 in particular and the example with the La5 was just an example of a situation where I couldnt climb high enough.

Personally I think that the La5 isnt inferior in all respects or very inferior.....to the 109.
La5 has an over all good maneuverability and good punch with its two cannons although I personally prefer the 109's a bit more stable plattform.
on same altidude they are absolutely comparable (below 2000m) although really low and slow the 109 beats it because of its accelleration and non flippy climb in slowest speeds.( atleast this is my experience )
The 109 usually have the altitude advantage and regain energy faster and also can lose speed faster without flipping.

Anyway...I feel the 109's advantage being small
so they are close to each other and normally in most fights the one who have the best initial angle on the other, wins.
I always thought I had a hughe advantage when I hade the 30mm cannon in the 109. (my opinion)

So I didnt mean It was useless or something like that. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif