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View Full Version : Trivia - The First Air Kill Of World War II Goes To The . . .



dugong
06-30-2007, 05:52 PM
I am no WWII expert, but I really never thought about this. Until I read it in a book last night. I bet at least some of you grognards know. Anyone?

MEGILE
06-30-2007, 05:54 PM
damn it I know this



Martlet?



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Badsight-
06-30-2007, 06:00 PM
P-11c ?

berg417448
06-30-2007, 06:02 PM
Originally posted by dugong:
I am no WWII expert, but I really never thought about this. Until I read it in a book last night. I bet at least some of you grognards know. Anyone?

If you are counting the invasion of Poland as the start I believe that the first air kill belongs to a Stuka.

DKoor
06-30-2007, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dugong:
I am no WWII expert, but I really never thought about this. Until I read it in a book last night. I bet at least some of you grognards know. Anyone?

If you are counting the invasion of Poland as the start I believe that the first air kill belongs to a Stuka. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That is true, first official A2A kill of the WW2 is credited to the Ju-87..... I can't remember the victim tho.

berg417448
06-30-2007, 06:12 PM
Found it:

http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/neubert/neubert.htm

dugong
06-30-2007, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dugong:
I am no WWII expert, but I really never thought about this. Until I read it in a book last night. I bet at least some of you grognards know. Anyone?

If you are counting the invasion of Poland as the start I believe that the first air kill belongs to a Stuka. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You would be correct. Badsight kinda' gets credit too. A first gen Stuka shot down a Polish P-11. The book does not specify if it was a gunner kill or a pilot kill. I would assume it was a pilot kill. I got this info from the book "Stuka" by Alex Vanags-Baginskis. It was illustrated by the aircraft illustration god Rikyu Watanabe. Who illustrated the Great Book of Modern of Jets and the Great Book of WWII Airplanes.

You cats know your stuff! I would have guessed an ME.

LStarosta
06-30-2007, 06:14 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dugong:
I am no WWII expert, but I really never thought about this. Until I read it in a book last night. I bet at least some of you grognards know. Anyone?

If you are counting the invasion of Poland as the start I believe that the first air kill belongs to a Stuka. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Stukas bounced an element of P.11c's as they were taking off. One of them badly damaged and shot down one of the P.11c's. Funny coincidence being that the other P.11c piloted by Lt. Władysław Gnyś promptly made the first Allied kill of WWII by downing a pair of Dorniers.

Skarphol
06-30-2007, 06:18 PM
This is a tricky question!
And as berg417448 says, it depends on when you define WWII as started.

One might say that it started with Japan invading Manchuria in 1931. This was the start of hostilities in the Pacific, and it lasted until 1945.
Another important date is ofcourse September the 1, 1939 when Germany started a war with Poland.
September 3rd, France and Great Britain decleared war on Germany, and the 'Phoney War' began as a European struggle.
We norwegians tend to look on April 9th 1940 as the start of WWII, since this was the date Norway and Denmark was attacked, and this ended the 'Phoney War'. Now most of Europe was in war, but it was no 'World War'
The war took on a more global scale as the German Afrika Corps brought the war over to Africa in order to help out the Italians in their private conquest in that continent.
Then of course there is Operation Barbarossa wich drew USSR into this mess, and Japans attack on Pearl Harbour on december the 7th 1941. That episode certainly gave a kick to the war in the Pacific.
The final significant date in this timeline is December 11th 1941 when Germany decleared war on the USA, and thus merged the European war with the Pacific war and created World War II.

It is a matter of 'when' if one is trying to figure out who was first.

Skarphol

dugong
06-30-2007, 06:25 PM
LStarosta - the book did not go into that much detail. Thanks for the info. I bet that was a sight, Stukas bouncing P-11's!

Skarphol, hmmm. What was the first Pacific Theater kill? When would that be historically on a time line compared to the Stuka kill? The Pacific kill would have happened first I guess. Any idea what the specific of that kill might have been?

XyZspineZyX
06-30-2007, 06:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

This depends on whether or not you feel that WWII started in Europe. Many historians are of the opinion that it started in Asia

Badsight-
06-30-2007, 06:25 PM
the last piston/propeller combat in a war is equally interesting

1960's

Ruy Horta
07-01-2007, 05:08 AM
How many days of peace were there between WW1 and WW2, if you count all the little conflicts around the world? Probably just as few as the days after WW2.

The fighting in Asia had a local character, however expanded that became.

The invasion of Poland triggered Britain and France to declare war on Germany. When Britain and France started the war against Germany it became global by nature of their empires. German assets across the globe could expect Anglo-French action (shipping etc).

One could argue that WW2 started on 9-3, instead of 9-1, but 9-1 was the direct catalyst and hence the start of the global conflict.

One could arguably say that Britain started WW2 by expanding a local war to a global one.

LStarosta
07-01-2007, 07:06 AM
Originally posted by Badsight-:
the last piston/propeller combat in a war is equally interesting

1960's

Soccer/Football war?

leitmotiv
07-01-2007, 07:16 AM
I think a PZL nailing two maneuvering Dorniers took a lot more savvy than than a Ju whomping on a PZL barely airborne. Honors to the Poles.

LStarosta
07-01-2007, 07:32 AM
Originally posted by Ruy Horta:
One could arguably say that Britain started WW2 by expanding a local war to a global one.

Disagree,

I think you have to be very naive to think that Hitler's war aims were localized. Your kind of thinking in this argument was the same kind of faulty Chamberlainesque logic that put Hitler in the kind of cocky position to have invaded Poland in the first place.

The treaty between Britain, France and Poland was made well before Germany invaded. Both countries were expected to come to Poland's aid if it were invaded. The Munich Conference and its appeasement policy was a disgust in many people's eyes, and this tri-party treaty was "the last straw" and a DELIBERATE safeguard to keep any such conflict from staying local.

Hitler on the other hand, was counting on the same appeasement foreign policy he received just a year earlier, and called the treaty a bluff. In many ways, he was correct due to the limit placed on direct military retaliation and the fact that it took two full days for both countries to declare war. Either way, the treaty prevented another "annexation" and called war by its real name and made it relevant on the global stage. However, what you're suggesting is that Britain and France declared war on a whim, which is incorrect. The declaration was quite deliberate and cemented well before the German invasion of Poland. It was, in effect, the end of the free spread of fascism, and a move to strengthen the credibility of France and Britain on the global stage in regards to their influence on European foreign policy.

leitmotiv
07-01-2007, 07:41 AM
EXACTLY.

Ruy Horta
07-01-2007, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
I think you have to be very naive to think that Hitler's war aims were localized. Your kind of thinking in this argument was the same kind of faulty Chamberlainesque logic that put Hitler in the kind of cocky position to have invaded Poland in the first place.

First I did write ARGUABLY, since it is an action reaction issue. But the fight did only get global by Britain's entry, and that's also a causality issue.

The above is more theoretical a distinction than a practical one.

Secondly it should be proven, beyond quoting Mein Kampf and theoretical war plans, that the invasion of Poland was only step one an elaborate masterplan to attack Western Europe, including Britain and France.

Third, even if you take Hitler's ideological aims as your guidence, those aims are to the east not west.

Yes, Hitler's aims of attacking Poland were local.