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essemm
12-23-2003, 05:22 AM
Hi all. I was flying the 109 last night and realised something...while flying an Me109, I have never shot down an enemy plane with regular rounds (7.92mm)---only the cannon.

What am I doing wrong? I am a relatively good marksman...good enough to target wing roots and radiators, so let mw know where to hit them and I can probably do it.

I am a demon with the cannon though. My favorite thing to do is wait until the enemny pulls a hard turn to try to get me off of his six, and then firing the cannon at the lower wing. The stress of the turn on the wing combined with the explosive cannon rounds usually leads to a wingless baddie.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

essemm
12-23-2003, 05:22 AM
Hi all. I was flying the 109 last night and realised something...while flying an Me109, I have never shot down an enemy plane with regular rounds (7.92mm)---only the cannon.

What am I doing wrong? I am a relatively good marksman...good enough to target wing roots and radiators, so let mw know where to hit them and I can probably do it.

I am a demon with the cannon though. My favorite thing to do is wait until the enemny pulls a hard turn to try to get me off of his six, and then firing the cannon at the lower wing. The stress of the turn on the wing combined with the explosive cannon rounds usually leads to a wingless baddie.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

Fehler
12-23-2003, 05:25 AM
The 109 has machine guns? Huh.. never knew that. What are they used for? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehlersig.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html

essemm
12-23-2003, 05:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
The 109 has machine guns? Huh.. never knew that. What are they used for? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hahaha. My point EXACTLY!!!

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

clint-ruin
12-23-2003, 06:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
The 109 has machine guns? Huh.. never knew that. What are they used for? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehlersig.jpg
http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/9JG54.html<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Back in one of the huge whinefest threads in ORR, Plumps posted a track of himself downing something like 11 I-16s with a 109s MGs only. Not from "ai bails" or pilot kills, either.

This was in 1.11, the patch that really sent people into an OH NO UBER VVS I16 RATATANK frenzy. It's funny how many of these issues seem only to affect certain people ..

It can be done. Being able to shoot and hit the same place on a plane more than once is a handy skill. If that place happens to be a fuel tank or the engine or the cockpit then even better. There's nothing stopping you from loading the quick mission builder, putting yourself in a 109 with a dozen I-16s on your side, and shooting them to bits til you get bored. Don't use the 1/2 or 1/4 time speed options, tempting as it is .. you'll just wreck your aiming for when you have to play at full speed.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

p1ngu666
12-23-2003, 07:17 AM
u can do it
ull just be there a long long long time

Raiden48
12-23-2003, 09:16 AM
i yesterday saw a guy called Swazy rip a I53 apart with the two MGs from the K4, that guy is really good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

LilHorse
12-23-2003, 09:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raiden48:
i yesterday saw a guy called Swazy rip a I53 apart with the two MGs from the K4, that guy is really good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, but the MGs on the K4 are .50 cal.(12.7mm or 13mm) not 7.92mm. From the G6 on up the MGs are 50s. But you can shoot down planes with the 30s. Quite often you start a fuel leak and if you can hit them in that stream you can set them on fire. So, it's do-able but challenging.

georgeo76
12-23-2003, 09:47 AM
I think alot of ppl don't shoot from close enough. @ less than 200m (when the enemy plane is roughly large enough to fill the inside circle on the 109 sight, he's @ 200m) you can devastate ppl w/ MG. The trick is not to 'shower' them w/ shells, but try to concentrate them in a single area.

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Merry Christmas!
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Korolov
12-23-2003, 09:52 AM
The 7.92MG work best on planes like Yaks and LaGGs. Also effective on warhawks and ponies, too.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg

AFJ_Locust
12-23-2003, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by essemm:
Hi all. I was flying the 109 last night and realised something...while flying an Me109, I have never shot down an enemy plane with regular rounds (7.92mm)---only the cannon.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You have to use the right convergance and you have to hit the same area of the wing alot then it will go down....

I dont know if you noticed but the mgs are Much more effective then they ever have been, In the past After I run out of cannons I will b&z with mgs as well there deadly accurate, altho I know where your coming from the 109s mgs are much weeker compared to other ac in this sim!!!

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1068129235.jpg

AFJ_Locust
12-23-2003, 10:02 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Raiden48:
i yesterday saw a guy called Swazy rip a I53 apart with the two MGs from the K4, that guy is really good http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Swazy Sux's Belive dat... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Hi ya Swazzi http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_109_1068129235.jpg

olaleier
12-23-2003, 10:40 AM
I've gotten abit proficient with small calibre rounds lately...(mostly cause I spend my big bullets real quick http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif )

Getting real close (inside of 100m) and aiming for the cockpit http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif does the job well.

Nasty kill...no smoke, no flames...just a plane diving into the ground...*evil laughter*

essemm
12-23-2003, 12:13 PM
Thanks for the great replies folks. I was kinda surprised at the fact that I can't do much with the 109's MGs because in my Dynamic Soviet Campaign, I am flying the I16 (damn fun), and I have great luck with those 7.62s...wierd that with the 109's 7.92s I have far less success.

Thanks for the tips guys. I do use convergence...I usually keep it set to 200m unless on a bomber intercept mission, at which point I set it out to 400 to avoid tail gunners. I guess I just need to be a bit more precise...although I thought I was.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/141103-warloch_small.jpg

Lunix
12-23-2003, 12:54 PM
Machine guns are used strictly for aiming the cannon without wasting canon rounds in the 109.

http://members.shaw.ca/corn/il2sig2.jpg

Deskjockey6
12-23-2003, 02:17 PM
They are very useful for knocking down Il-2 if you are patient. Approach from 6 o'clock low and a short burst in the oil radiator at 100 -150 meters. All you then have to do is wait 'til he comes down by himself. Mind you it takes a while.
I've only tried this offline, flying the Bf109-F4 in the grand campaign from DCG. I shot down 8 Il-2 in one mission (mind you with no rear gunner it's easier) while the rest of my wing went after their regular mission.

clint-ruin
12-23-2003, 02:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Deskjockey6:
They are very useful for knocking down Il-2 if you are patient. Approach from 6 o'clock low and a short burst in the oil radiator at 100 -150 meters. All you then have to do is wait 'til he comes down by himself. Mind you it takes a while.
I've only tried this offline, flying the Bf109-F4 in the grand campaign from DCG. I shot down 8 Il-2 in one mission (mind you with no rear gunner it's easier) while the rest of my wing went after their regular mission.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, exactly.

I get a impression that lots of people don't think a kill is a kill unless the massive FB fireball explosion sends flaming pieces of the target everywhere.

This is not so.

Just as lining up a shot with light MGs takes time, it also takes time for radiator damage to take effect. Engine damage will usually take a plane out of the fight pretty quickly - BF109s especially, but all of the inline/liquid cooled engines are very vulnerable to damage. There seem to be some other special cases too, like the P-47 and La-5, where the engine is very easy to damage from small rounds. You don't even need to see the thick black puffs of smoke coming out of the engine to be sure of a kill. Usually, it's enough to make the engine trail thin grey smoke. In ~5 minutes that target is going to be looking for somewhere to crash land.

Similar story with the bombers - fuel tank fires seem to be almost impossible for them to put out and will eventually result in the wing blowing off the plane. Engine fires will occasionally go out, but any engine damage will make the AI bombers drop their bombload and put them into the "I'm RTB" AI status. Versus a bomber, that's a "mission kill" - maybe not as satisfying as blowing it out of the sky, but the bomber is now just a flying gun turret and can't take out anything on the ground. Its' stopped engines will eventually pull it out of formation and allow you to pick it off as you like.

For all the talk of "fricken green laserbeams" from the whiner crowd, the MG17s are by far easier to aim at a target than the ShKAS, .303, or .30 cal rounds are. JtDs tests show practically no dispersion of any kind on the MG17s, which means that with enough practise you can be surgical with them. However, no amount of skill is going to make a 7.92mm round magically travel from the rudder of a plane through to the pilots head or engine - this is WWII, not the Kennedy assassination.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/leninkoba.jpg

JG77Hawk_9
12-23-2003, 03:12 PM
Hell, I've taken down online B17's with 109mg's only. If you hit the fuselage in the right position you can take out their control's and then you just circle high and watch them slowely fly into the ground.

Precision and patience are what's needed and in the case of B17's a good slash attack as to avoide those 50cal rounds coming back at you (-:
With Il2's and other twin seaters a low six attack aiming either at the wing root or just forward of it will keep you happy and them down.