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View Full Version : Dive speed limit discrepancies - Oleg, please, could you explain on what basis you model VNE?



XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 06:06 AM
First of all big thanks to Oleg and the team for their tremendous effort to improve their sim. It is getting better and better from patch to patch...

But, there are still some issues left...

As mentioned in the heading, one of them are some unclear things about VNE (never exceed speed) of planes...

For example Hurricane MkII, had its VNE in a dive set to 390MPH IAS (which equals to 627km/h) in its flight manual

http://212.80.76.22/CSL_Kocour/ORR/DiveSpeeds/Hurricane/pic27080.jpg


The same Hurricane (MkIIb) falls apart at about 720km/h IAS in IL2 FB...


On the other hand for example Bf109E had its VNE in a dive set to 750km/h IAS in the flight manual

http://212.80.76.22/CSL_Kocour/ORR/DiveSpeeds/Bf109E/pic25072.jpg


And this plane falls apart at exactly the same speed of 750km/h


These are just two examples, but there are many more such cases in FB...some planes exceed their VNE from manuals by quite a lot and some planes fall apart at exactly the speed defined in manual or very close to it...


Oleg, please, could you explain why is it so?

Thank you

CSL_Kocour

Message Edited on 12/04/0305:12AM by CSL_Kocour

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 06:06 AM
First of all big thanks to Oleg and the team for their tremendous effort to improve their sim. It is getting better and better from patch to patch...

But, there are still some issues left...

As mentioned in the heading, one of them are some unclear things about VNE (never exceed speed) of planes...

For example Hurricane MkII, had its VNE in a dive set to 390MPH IAS (which equals to 627km/h) in its flight manual

http://212.80.76.22/CSL_Kocour/ORR/DiveSpeeds/Hurricane/pic27080.jpg


The same Hurricane (MkIIb) falls apart at about 720km/h IAS in IL2 FB...


On the other hand for example Bf109E had its VNE in a dive set to 750km/h IAS in the flight manual

http://212.80.76.22/CSL_Kocour/ORR/DiveSpeeds/Bf109E/pic25072.jpg


And this plane falls apart at exactly the same speed of 750km/h


These are just two examples, but there are many more such cases in FB...some planes exceed their VNE from manuals by quite a lot and some planes fall apart at exactly the speed defined in manual or very close to it...


Oleg, please, could you explain why is it so?

Thank you

CSL_Kocour

Message Edited on 12/04/0305:12AM by CSL_Kocour

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 06:23 AM
What does VNE actually represent? If it is a never exceed dive speed as indicated in the manual, it sounds like the maximum safe speed that the aircraft is capable off.

As such exceeding them should not result in the plane coming apart straight away, as would there not be a safety margin in the VNE provided by the manufacturer? (in which case the Hurricane would seem correct, and the Bf-109 maybe not, according to your figures).

Also, Oleg & co. base their flight models on data from several sourses... they may be using different values to what you have there.


"As weaponry, both were good, but in far different ways from each other. In a nutshell, I describe it this way: if the FW 190 was a sabre, the 109 was a florett, or foil, like that used in the precision art of fencing." - Gunther Rall

http://www.invoman.com/images/tali_with_hands.jpg


Look Noobie, we already told you, we don't have the Patch!

Message Edited on 12/04/0307:08AM by NegativeGee

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 06:49 AM
i think he has a good point.

XyZspineZyX
12-04-2003, 10:57 AM
Ancient Chinese secret.

You must belong to the MOSS order to know these things. MOSS = Mystic Order of Secret Sh!t.

Im just kidding of course, but your question does raise some questions. I for one would LOVE to have all the tech data that Oleg has acquired in his research and travels while making this sim. I bet his library is quite formidable!

Although I would have to admit, most of it would probably look quite Greek to me. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



http://webpages.charter.net/cuda70/Fehler.jpg