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View Full Version : Avro Lancaster losses (according to one source)



msalama
04-22-2005, 10:31 AM
OK -

Sez here (http://www.lancaster-archive.com/Production_figures.htm) that the loss percentage of Lancs was altogether 3498/9012 = 0.3881... ~= 40% of all aircraft, of which (according to this (http://www.lancaster-archive.com/Lanc-Loss%20Table.JPG) document) 1127/9012 = 0.1250... ~= 13% were shot down. Thus, the majority of Lancasters were NOT lost in direct combat!

Interesting...

AWL_Spinner
04-22-2005, 10:55 AM
In too much of a hurry (not a Hurri http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ) to read your links. Was there a differentiation between shot down (enemy aircraft) and losses to Flak?

p1ngu666
04-22-2005, 10:59 AM
a fair number crashed on landing, or where written off due to battle damage.
lanc was actully made in several bits, think front, mid, tail, and wings. so they would take the good tail off a crashed aircraft, and stick it on another lanc that had damaged tail for example http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

p1ngu666
04-22-2005, 11:37 AM
grim reading ahoy

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8370.JPG

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8371.JPG

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8372.JPG

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8373.JPG

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8374.JPG

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8376.JPG

Slickun
04-22-2005, 02:19 PM
Look at any plane that was present in any numbers, and was a combat type, and its losses were staggering.

Direct losses due to combat, accidents, writeoffs due to damage, cannibalization, war weariness, abandonment, losses in transit, theft, misplacement, it is staggering.

Aaron_GT
04-22-2005, 03:35 PM
" theft"

A bit hard to conceal a whole Lancaster under your bed in a nissen hut though :-)

msalama
04-22-2005, 04:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Was there a differentiation between shot down (enemy aircraft) and losses to Flak? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not differentiated as far as I can say. But it's strange that most were lost due to something _else_ than combat... Now what, if anything, does that tell you?

msalama
04-22-2005, 05:00 PM
Yeah well -

Actually tells a lot about the situation they were operated in, doesn't it? I mean, you (or I) just try to handle a huge beast like that in a total f**king chaos...

msalama
04-22-2005, 05:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>A bit hard to conceal a whole Lancaster under your bed in a nissen hut though <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

What if it's a BIG Nissen hut?

Arm_slinger
04-22-2005, 05:20 PM
Theft? LOL sorry thats one of the fnniest things i've read in a long while http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

darkhorizon11
04-22-2005, 05:57 PM
Of course not every single Lanc necessarily saw combat usage either. Thanks for sharing though thats an intresting stat! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stathem
04-22-2005, 06:20 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
" theft"

A bit hard to conceal a whole Lancaster under your bed in a nissen hut though :-) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I read a piece in an old Aeroplane Mag about a Meteor NF something or other that was stolen... seems it was dismantled and sold for scrap

Aaron_GT
04-23-2005, 01:22 AM
I was just joking - it was just an image that popped into my head!

p1ngu666
04-23-2005, 03:39 AM
hm
maybe its those that did not return, and other figures include those that did return, and where written off due to damage, crash landing, etc

SnapdLikeAMutha
04-23-2005, 05:12 AM
As the war went on, much extra equipment was added to all aircraft (especially bombers) - extra guns, armour plate, radio, radar, navigation equipment and so on. This completely overloaded the airframes, so no, I'm not suprised that so many were lost in accidents.

KG26_Alpha
04-23-2005, 08:25 AM
pingu 666

I noticed that there was only 1 Lanc bombing at Rostock in April 42, got any info on the main force of British bombers used to level Rostock ? I thought the main attack were Lancasters, they must have used something big to bomb the hell outta it.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stathem
04-23-2005, 09:46 AM
Probably mostly Wellingtons at that time; it's a much underrated aircraft.

hop2002
04-23-2005, 10:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I noticed that there was only 1 Lanc bombing at Rostock in April 42, got any info on the main force of British bombers used to level Rostock ? I thought the main attack were Lancasters, they must have used something big to bomb the hell outta it.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

According to the BC diary at http://www.raf.mod.uk/bombercommand/index.html

1st raid 23/24 April
161 aircraft - 93 Wellingtons, 31 Stirlings, 19 Whitleys, 11 Hampdens, 6 Manchesters, 1 Lancaster. 4 aircraft - 2 Wellingtons, 1 Manchester, 1 Whitley - lost

The subsequent raids don't give a breakdown of aircraft type, but would have been much the same.

KG26_Alpha
04-23-2005, 11:18 AM
Aha

Great link I have RAF.mod bookmarked but missed this info.............thxz

Looks like it was a mottley bunch that went there whole mix of aircraft must have been a lot of banter prefight with such a mix of crew and planes.

This looks better for what I had in my mind about the bombing of Rostock

23/24 April 1942

Rostock

161 aircraft - 93 Wellingtons, 31 Stirlings, 19 Whitleys, 11 Hampdens, 6 Manchesters, 1 Lancaster. 4 aircraft - 2 Wellingtons, 1 Manchester, 1 Whitley - lost.
This was the first of a series of 4 raids on this Baltic port town. These raids had many of the characteristics of the successful raid on nearby Lübeck 1 month earlier - a concentrated, incendiary, area-bombing attack of a town with only light defences. An added feature on each night, however, was the inclusion of a small force of bombers, from 5 Group on the first 3 nights, to attempt a precision attack on the Heinkel aircraft factory on the southern outskirts of Rostock. On this first night, 143 aircraft were sent to bomb the town and 18 the Heinkel factory. Bombing conditions were good but the results of the raid were disappointing. The Heinkel factory was not hit and most of the main bombing intended for the Altstadt fell between 2 and 6 miles away.
24 April 1942

12 Bostons bombed Flushing docks: 6 further Bostons to Abbeville were recalled. No Bostons lost.


24/25 April 1942

Rostock

125 aircraft of 6 types, 91 to the town and 34 to the Heinkel factory .1 Hampden lost. The centre of the town was bombed heavily on this night but the Heinkel factory buildings were not hit, although some bombs did fall in the general factory area.

Minor Operations: 39 aircraft to Dunkirk, 4 Blenheim Intruders, 3 leaflet flights. 1 Intruder lost.
25 April 1942

36 Bostons on Circus operations to Abbeville railway yards, Morliax airfield and harbour targets at Cherbourg, Le Havre and Dunkirk. 29 aircraft bombed; 2 Bostons lost.


25/26 April 1942

Rostock

128 aircraft of 6 types, 110 to the town and 18 to the Heinkel factory. No aircraft were lost although crews reported that Rostock's Flak defences had been strengthened. Heavy bombing of the town and many fires were achieved. Some aircraft also hit the Heinkel factory for the first time; the crews achieving this were flying Manchesters from 106 Squadron, which was commanded by Wing Commander Guy Gibson.

Minor Operations: 6 Stirlings carried out a long-range attack on the Sk¶da armaments factory at Pilsen in Czechoslovakia. Cloud covered the target on arrival but at least 5 Stirlings bombed. 32 aircraft to Dunkirk, 2 Blenheim Intruders, 5 leaflet flights to France. 1 Stirling lost from the Pilsen raid.
26 April 1942

12 Bostons carried out accurate bombing of St Omer and Hazebrouck railway yards without loss.


26/27 April 1942

Rostock

106 or 109 aircraft (there are conflicting figures) of 7 different types, approximately half to the town and half to the Heinkel factory. 3 aircraft - 1 Stirling, 1 Wellington, 1 Whitley - lost. Successful bombing was recorded by both parts of the force.

The 4 raids in this series resulted in the destruction of 1,765 buildings and serious damage to 513 more buildings in Rostock. Bomber Command estimated that 130 acres were destroyed, 60 per cent of the main town area. Casualties were 204 people killed and 89 injured.

p1ngu666
04-23-2005, 12:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by stathem:
Probably mostly Wellingtons at that time; it's a much underrated aircraft. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yep, was the backbone of bombercommand for awhile

ive only got those figures i photoed im afraid