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View Full Version : Oleg / 1C: Can we add G Suit effect for allied pilots?



HayateAce
12-06-2004, 12:32 AM
Developments in Aviation Medicine
The contribution of medicial service to tactical success is not only proper care for the sick and wounded, but also includes measures to protect and improve the efficiency of combat airmen and to prevent casualties from occurring.

Blacking out of vision has limited the sharpness of turns and pull-outs which fighter pilots have been able to withstand ever since World War I. The black-out is due to the pull of gravity (G) on the blood stream when the direction in which the body is moving suddenly changes so that the blood's weight is thrown from head to feet. The heart is unable to pump sufficient blood to the brain when the pull of G causes blood to pool in the abdomen and legs.

During World War II, both the Allied and Axis air forces have experimented with various methods which would combat black-out. Since the pursuit airplane is able to withstand more G than the human body, the pilot with superior G tolerance should be able to outmaneuver the enemy. The earliest workable G suits were introduced by the Canadian and Australian air forces, followed closely by the U. S. Navy. The AAF modified and adapted the 18-pound Navy suit after extensive tests on the human centrifuge at the Aero Medical Laboratory, Wright Field, Ohio, and evolved the G-3 suit. This is, in essence, a pair of pneumatic pants weighing 2 pounds and containing air bladders which automatically fill with compressed air from the airplane's vacuum instrument pump. The pressure is released when the airplane levels off. The effect of the air pressure in the bladder is to keep the blood from rushing to the lower extremities of the body and pooling there. While the extra G tolerance provided the pilot is theoretically limited, fighter pilots wearing the suit have never reported a complete back-out.

Several thousand G suits were shipped overseas to fighter groups in 1944, and, unlike many items of personal pretective equipment, they achieved immediate popularity among the men who have to wear them. Pilots have contributed case histories of kills attributed to the extra margin of clear-headedness the G suit gave them during pull-outs and turns. Equally important, the device reduces the fatigue frequently resulting from aerobatics.

http://www.bellsaviation.com/museum/images/G3pants.jpg

Original Source (http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/history/wwii/aaf/aaf-103.htm)

In the fall of 1944, the 357th combat-tested the new G-suits that had been developed for pilots, as Bud Anderson recounts. "The Mustangs could take very hard turns. Long before the wings flew off, the pilots would lose consciousness. Five G's and you might "gray out" but be able to function.

Six G's or so and you would black out completely. The form-fitting suits inflated as the airplane pulled G's, hugging you, and preventing the blood from leaving your head all at once. There were two experimental suits. One was water-filled, and turned out to be too cold at six miles up, even when filled with warm water on the ground. The other ones, air suits, drew air from the pressure side of the engine's vacuum pump. These suits wrapped around your abdomen, thighs, and calves, and inflated automatically. These worked much better."
"With the G-suits, we could fly a little harder, turn a little tighter. We could pull maybe one extra G now, which gave us an edge. There was no resistance to wearing them as we understood that wearing them was the same as making the airplane better."


Original Source (http://www.acepilots.com/usaaf_anderson.html)

Now, we have a Ta152 in the game:

Approximately 150 Ta 1252H-1 fighters were manufactured between January 1, 1945 and the final abandoning of production with the arrival of Soviet forces at the Cottbus assembly plant.

So surely we can have an Allied G Suit of which several thousand were delivered and of which well-known Ace Bud Anderson spoke highly of.

You don't have to really model anyting new, but perhaps make an adjustment to blackout for Allied pilots in 1944 planes and later ONLY.

Thanks for your consideration of this matter.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hetzer_II
12-06-2004, 12:54 AM
Why you guys always believe that 2 posts are better than one??

Abbuzze
12-06-2004, 12:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HayateAce:

You don't have to really model anyting new, but perhaps make an adjustment to blackout for Allied pilots in 1944 planes and later ONLY.

Thanks for your consideration of this matter.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nice story about this suits, allready read a lot of it, but still very good.
But if the suits are modelled, I want a adjustment for ALL 109 and 190, cause in this planes you are more in a lying postion and your legs are higher than in a P47/51, give you more resistance vs high g-forces!
After the tests with an 109E the Spitfire got 2 positions for you feets at the pedals, more comfortable, cruising-pos. and a combat-pos.

So maybe the easiest way to simulate this is to reduce the geforceresistance for all US 43/and early 44 planes- just kidding http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
All Planes in FB-PF have the same resistance agains g-forces, and this will not be chanced.
Pity, would give the german planes an advantage they lack in this game.

Fehler
12-06-2004, 01:11 AM
It would also be nice to see the pilot fatigue (Mentioned in the article) modelled in the game as well. Something like the more maneuvers you make the less able you are to pull to full deflection on the stick until you fly a period of time with less exertion.

That would limit the unrealistic (IMHO) maneuvers we see online everyday. And all pilots would have to learn to manage their virtual stamina, as well as their energy.

And yes, the G-suit could and probably should be modelled in the game. (OMG, I am in agreement with Hayate! Someone shoot me! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif) But so should the reclined position of the FW 190 - which was designed to help reduce the effects of G forces on the pilot.

But alas, there is probably only so much that can be modelled... blasted computers!