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samward
07-13-2011, 02:28 AM
OK so I am really confused...forgive me if someone has answered this already.

I just finished reading the latest book in the AC series as well started to play through AC1 again.

Now in AC1 Lucy tells Desmond the POE that Altair finds is the one that is destroyed in Denver. Now in the book Altair travels to Cyprus but does not leave the Apple there. So obviously Abstergo wanted to see the map produced by the Apple and nothing more.

So by the end of the first game Altair's POE has been destroyed and Abstergo has the map to the Temples. In the second game Lucy tells Desmond that she knew to look for an ancestor in Italy because Warren had become obsessed with it when working with 16.

Now Ezio retrieves a new POE from the Templars who got it in Cyprus... and then he hides it in Juno's temple....

So here is what I don't get...how is it that a POE existed in Cyprus when according to the book the Templars moved all of their artifacts from there and Altair's POE was destroyed?

And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

Re looking over some of this stuff...I am rather confused...can anyone explain it to me?

Sorry my thoughts are so scattered....

roostersrule2
07-13-2011, 02:53 AM
Originally posted by samward:
OK so I am really confused...forgive me if someone has answered this already.

I just finished reading the latest book in the AC series as well started to play through AC1 again.

Now in AC1 Lucy tells Desmond the POE that Altair finds is the one that is destroyed in Denver. Now in the book Altair travels to Cyprus but does not leave the Apple there. So obviously Abstergo wanted to see the map produced by the Apple and nothing more.

So by the end of the first game Altair's POE has been destroyed and Abstergo has the map to the
Temples. In the second game Lucy tells Desmond that she knew to look for an ancestor in Italy because Warren had become obsessed with it when working with 16.

Now Ezio retrieves a new POE from the Templars who got it in Cyprus... and then he hides it in Juno's temple....

So here is what I don't get...how is it that a POE existed in Cyprus when according to the book the Templars moved all of their artifacts from there and Altair's POE was destroyed?

And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map
to the Temples not the location of a POE...

Re looking over some of this stuff...I am rather confused...can anyone explain it to me?

Sorry my thoughts are so scattered.... Abstergo dosent know about Minerva,Juno and temples and ubisoft messed it up because the apple altair had is the one ezio had which is the one Desmond had

Artemis88
07-13-2011, 02:55 AM
I'll give these questions a go since they seem to be answerable despite the awkward way they are asked!


Originally posted by samward: And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Warren Vidic had Desmond relive Altair's memories to find the PoE (the Apple). When Altair in possession of the Apple after he kills Al Mualim, the map projects out of the Apple in front of Altair and that is when Warren finds out about the location.


Originally posted by samward: Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

With the Assassins that were coming to rescue Desmond being killed off, Warren and the other Templars wanted to get rid of him as his usefulness had ended. If Desmond had escaped and there were indeed more Assassins out there, he would have been able to inform them of the locations - hence the race between the Templars and Assassins to the PoE's.

Hopefully that helped!

samward
07-13-2011, 04:44 AM
Originally posted by Artemis88:
I'll give these questions a go since they seem to be answerable despite the awkward way they are asked!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward: And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Warren Vidic had Desmond relive Altair's
memories to find the PoE (the Apple). When Altair in possession of the Apple after he kills Al Mualim, the map projects out of the Apple in front of Altair and that is when Warren finds out about the location.


Originally posted by samward: Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

With the Assassins that were coming to rescue Desmond being killed off, Warren and the other Templars wanted to get rid of him as his usefulness had ended. If Desmond had escaped and there were indeed more Assassins out there, he would have been able to inform them of the locations - hence the race between the Templars and Assassins to the PoE's.

Hopefully that helped! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK first off, I did say sorry for my thoughts being scattered... Maybe I need to try and rewrite them...

Secondly, the image that the Apple shows at the end of the AC1 is not the location of the Apple, it is a map of the world with the location of the temples, much like the map that the Apple projects in AC2 for Ezio.

So I shall ask my questions again. We know that there was a POE that was in Abstergo's possession but then the Assassins stole it..or something like that...at any rate it was destroyed. This left Abstergo without an Apple and therefor hindered their plans to use it control the world. We also know that while 16 was still alive that Vidic spent a great deal of time with his ancestors in Italy because he believed it held the answer to where the Apple was.

So when Desmond is brought in, not only does Abstergo not have the Apple but other then knowing it is somewhere in Italy, they have nothing...

So for whatever reason they put Desmond in the memory of Altair who at the end only gives them the location of the temples not the Apple and then they say they want to kill him.... that makes no seance.... why not go directly in Ezio's memories? If they were looking for the Apple... ( Since they thought it was in Italy) and why say they are going to kill him before they even tried to search his ancestors memories in Italy....

Then there is the inconsistency with the Apple its self. From the game play and the book we know that while Altair did travel to Cyprus, he did not leave the Apple there and when he did arrive in Cyprus he discovered that all of the Templar artifacts had been moved, so it is not possible for the Templars to have hidden a different one there either. (Well I guess they could, but it would not makes sense for them to leave that behind and take everything else...nor does it make sense for them to go back in later years and hide it in a burnt out collapsed building...) Now since we know that Altair's Apple is destroyed in Denver, that means that the Apple that Ezio finds must be a different one. Here inconstancy again... The Templars bring this new Apple back from Cyprus...but why would it be in Cyprus...as we know from the books the Templars moved all their artifact many years ago? So where did this second Apple originate from?

I guess all in all it confuses me if Altair's Apple and Ezio's Apples are different...and Altair's apple was destroyed before Desmond ever arrived....then why go into Altair's memories at all? And why kill him before you even bothered to explore Italy where they already suspected the apple to be? And how did Ezio's Apple get to Cyprus?

I am really not sure how I can make my questions any clearer.

blazefp
07-13-2011, 05:44 AM
Was the apple destroyed in that accident AI says it happened? Cuz I think it was the staff. Check out assassin's wikia, I'm pretty sure it was the staff not the apple but I may be wrong. Either way assassin's wikia has all the answers to your questions you just have to look for them

Artemis88
07-13-2011, 05:46 AM
Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Artemis88:
I'll give these questions a go since they seem to be answerable despite the awkward way they are asked!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward: And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Warren Vidic had Desmond relive Altair's
memories to find the PoE (the Apple). When Altair in possession of the Apple after he kills Al Mualim, the map projects out of the Apple in front of Altair and that is when Warren finds out about the location.


Originally posted by samward: Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

With the Assassins that were coming to rescue Desmond being killed off, Warren and the other Templars wanted to get rid of him as his usefulness had ended. If Desmond had escaped and there were indeed more Assassins out there, he would have been able to inform them of the locations - hence the race between the Templars and Assassins to the PoE's.

Hopefully that helped! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK first off, I did say sorry for my thoughts being scattered... Maybe I need to try and rewrite them...

Secondly, the image that the Apple shows at the end of the AC1 is not the location of the Apple, it is a map of the world with the location of the temples, much like the map that the Apple projects in AC2 for Ezio.

So I shall ask my questions again. We know that there was a POE that was in Abstergo's possession but then the Assassins stole it..or something like that...at any rate it was destroyed. This left Abstergo without an Apple and therefor hindered their plans to use it control the world. We also know that while 16 was still alive that Vidic spent a great deal of time with his ancestors in Italy because he believed it held the answer to where the Apple was.

So when Desmond is brought in, not only does Abstergo not have the Apple but other then knowing it is somewhere in Italy, they have nothing...

So for whatever reason they put Desmond in the memory of Altair who at the end only gives them the location of the temples not the Apple and then they say they want to kill him.... that makes no seance.... why not go directly in Ezio's memories? If they were looking for the Apple... ( Since they thought it was in Italy) and why say they are going to kill him before they even tried to search his ancestors memories in Italy....

Then there is the inconsistency with the Apple its self. From the game play and the book we know that while Altair did travel to Cyprus, he did not leave the Apple there and when he did arrive in Cyprus he discovered that all of the Templar artifacts had been moved, so it is not possible for the Templars to have hidden a different one there either. (Well I guess they could, but it would not makes sense for them to leave that behind and take everything else...nor does it make sense for them to go back in later years and hide it in a burnt out collapsed building...) Now since we know that Altair's Apple is destroyed in Denver, that means that the Apple that Ezio finds must be a different one. Here inconstancy again... The Templars bring this new Apple back from Cyprus...but why would it be in Cyprus...as we know from the books the Templars moved all their artifact many years ago? So where did this second Apple originate from?

I guess all in all it confuses me if Altair's Apple and Ezio's Apples are different...and Altair's apple was destroyed before Desmond ever arrived....then why go into Altair's memories at all? And why kill him before you even bothered to explore Italy where they already suspected the apple to be? And how did Ezio's Apple get to Cyprus?

I am really not sure how I can make my questions any clearer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You misinterpreted what I said - What I meant was despite it being worded awkwardly, it was somewhat answerable!!

Also, I did say "hopefully that helped" ¨_¨

Of course there are going to be inconsistencies between the book and the games. The books change certain events or details that take place in the games. The book was supposed to be about what happened to Altair (Parts 1-the beginning of Part 4), which it was, but it didn't detail what happened to Adha.

samward
07-13-2011, 05:50 AM
Originally posted by Artemis88:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Artemis88:
I'll give these questions a go since they seem to be answerable despite the awkward way they are asked!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward: And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Warren Vidic had Desmond relive Altair's
memories to find the PoE (the Apple). When Altair in possession of the Apple after he kills Al Mualim, the map projects out of the Apple in front of Altair and that is when Warren finds out about the location.


Originally posted by samward: Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

With the Assassins that were coming to rescue Desmond being killed off, Warren and the other Templars wanted to get rid of him as his usefulness had ended. If Desmond had escaped and there were indeed more Assassins out there, he would have been able to inform them of the locations - hence the race between the Templars and Assassins to the PoE's.

Hopefully that helped! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK first off, I did say sorry for my thoughts being scattered... Maybe I need to try and rewrite them...

Secondly, the image that the Apple shows at the end of the AC1 is not the location of the Apple, it is a map of the world with the location of the temples, much like the map that the Apple projects in AC2 for Ezio.

So I shall ask my questions again. We know that there was a POE that was in Abstergo's possession but then the Assassins stole it..or something like that...at any rate it was destroyed. This left Abstergo without an Apple and therefor hindered their plans to use it control the world. We also know that while 16 was still alive that Vidic spent a great deal of time with his ancestors in Italy because he believed it held the answer to where the Apple was.

So when Desmond is brought in, not only does Abstergo not have the Apple but other then knowing it is somewhere in Italy, they have nothing...

So for whatever reason they put Desmond in the memory of Altair who at the end only gives them the location of the temples not the Apple and then they say they want to kill him.... that makes no seance.... why not go directly in Ezio's memories? If they were looking for the Apple... ( Since they thought it was in Italy) and why say they are going to kill him before they even tried to search his ancestors memories in Italy....

Then there is the inconsistency with the Apple its self. From the game play and the book we know that while Altair did travel to Cyprus, he did not leave the Apple there and when he did arrive in Cyprus he discovered that all of the Templar artifacts had been moved, so it is not possible for the Templars to have hidden a different one there either. (Well I guess they could, but it would not makes sense for them to leave that behind and take everything else...nor does it make sense for them to go back in later years and hide it in a burnt out collapsed building...) Now since we know that Altair's Apple is destroyed in Denver, that means that the Apple that Ezio finds must be a different one. Here inconstancy again... The Templars bring this new Apple back from Cyprus...but why would it be in Cyprus...as we know from the books the Templars moved all their artifact many years ago? So where did this second Apple originate from?

I guess all in all it confuses me if Altair's Apple and Ezio's Apples are different...and Altair's apple was destroyed before Desmond ever arrived....then why go into Altair's memories at all? And why kill him before you even bothered to explore Italy where they already suspected the apple to be? And how did Ezio's Apple get to Cyprus?

I am really not sure how I can make my questions any clearer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You misinterpreted what I said - What I meant was despite it being worded awkwardly, it was somewhat answerable!!

Also, I did say "hopefully that helped" ¨_¨ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ummm...yes I understood, hence why I said maybe I needed to reword it better...and while I thank you for trying to help you answers did not answer my questions so I thought maybe I had not communicated clearly and rewrote my questions, hopefully in a more logical way. I did not mean to offend.

Abeonis
07-13-2011, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by samward:
OK so I am really confused...forgive me if someone has answered this already.

I just finished reading the latest book in the AC series as well started to play through AC1 again.

Now in AC1 Lucy tells Desmond the POE that Altair finds is the one that is destroyed in Denver. Now in the book Altair travels to Cyprus but does not leave the Apple there. So obviously Abstergo wanted to see the map produced by the Apple and nothing more.

So by the end of the first game Altair's POE has been destroyed and Abstergo has the map to the Temples. In the second game Lucy tells Desmond that she knew to look for an ancestor in Italy because Warren had become obsessed with it when working with 16.

Now Ezio retrieves a new POE from the Templars who got it in Cyprus... and then he hides it in Juno's temple....

So here is what I don't get...how is it that a POE existed in Cyprus when according to the book the Templars moved all of their artifacts from there and Altair's POE was destroyed?

Quite simply, Lucy's comment about the Apple at Denver being the same Apple as was held by Altair is wrong. Most likely this is a mistake on Ubisofts behalf, though the easy retcon is to say Lucy was simply mistaken and/or misinformed.



And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

I'll answer your second point first. The map projected by the Apple at the end of the first game is not a map of the Temples, it shows the location of the other Pieces of Eden. Hence why both the Assassins and Templars are using said map to locate the Pieces. They were going to kill him as they could hardly let him go, to tell anyone who would listen what he had just been through.

With regards to Vidic focusing on Italy: Vidic was aware of a "Vault", and knew one of 16's ancestors (i.e. Ezio Auditore) traveled there. We know this as Lucy clearly mentions it in ACII. Of course, 16 commited suicide before Vidic was able to have him view the relevant memories.

Finally, with regards to a point you made a little earlier. No, The Secret Crusade doesn't show Altair leaving the Apple in Cyprus, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. We know for a fact that the Apple was in Cyprus by 1485 (the year the Tempalrs retrieve it), and that Altair hid it there. It's entirely feasible that Altair fled to Cyprus after the events depicted in The Secret Crusade, and hid it during his remaining days.

Mr_Shade
07-13-2011, 07:50 AM
Reading the title... I thought someone had spotted Desmond with an iPad.. LOL

samward
07-13-2011, 09:27 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
Reading the title... I thought someone had spotted Desmond with an iPad.. LOL

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif hahahhaha http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

RzaRecta357
07-13-2011, 09:33 AM
Regardless of the book. They either have to explain this in the next game or it's just a terrible Retcon.

samward
07-13-2011, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
OK so I am really confused...forgive me if someone has answered this already.

I just finished reading the latest book in the AC series as well started to play through AC1 again.

Now in AC1 Lucy tells Desmond the POE that Altair finds is the one that is destroyed in Denver. Now in the book Altair travels to Cyprus but does not leave the Apple there. So obviously Abstergo wanted to see the map produced by the Apple and nothing more.

So by the end of the first game Altair's POE has been destroyed and Abstergo has the map to the Temples. In the second game Lucy tells Desmond that she knew to look for an ancestor in Italy because Warren had become obsessed with it when working with 16.

Now Ezio retrieves a new POE from the Templars who got it in Cyprus... and then he hides it in Juno's temple....

So here is what I don't get...how is it that a POE existed in Cyprus when according to the book the Templars moved all of their artifacts from there and Altair's POE was destroyed?

Quite simply, Lucy's comment about the Apple at Denver being the same Apple as was held by Altair is wrong. Most likely this is a mistake on Ubisofts behalf, though the easy retcon is to say Lucy was simply mistaken and/or misinformed.



And how is it that Warren knew to look in Italy if he did not have the map or a POE to help him?

Lastly why would they want to kill him at the end of the first game? All they had was the map to the Temples not the location of a POE...

I'll answer your second point first. The map projected by the Apple at the end of the first game is not a map of the Temples, it shows the location of the other Pieces of Eden. Hence why both the Assassins and Templars are using said map to locate the Pieces. They were going to kill him as they could hardly let him go, to tell anyone who would listen what he had just been through.

With regards to Vidic focusing on Italy: Vidic was aware of a "Vault", and knew one of 16's ancestors (i.e. Ezio Auditore) traveled there. We know this as Lucy clearly mentions it in ACII. Of course, 16 commited suicide before Vidic was able to have him view the relevant memories.

Finally, with regards to a point you made a little earlier. No, The Secret Crusade doesn't show Altair leaving the Apple in Cyprus, but that doesn't mean he didn't do it. We know for a fact that the Apple was in Cyprus by 1485 (the year the Tempalrs retrieve it), and that Altair hid it there. It's entirely feasible that Altair fled to Cyprus after the events depicted in The Secret Crusade, and hid it during his remaining days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK so you are saying that first off that Altair's Apple and Ezio's Apple are one in the same..and that either Ubi got their info wrong or Lucy was misinformed, and therefore misinforming us? Well that answer does clear up some major discrepancies. Though I wonder then what POE blew up in Denver?

Secondly your telling me that the map that the Apple projects is the location of the POE's not the temples? So Desmond basically has to find these temples on sheer luck? That sucks! hahah It does make more sense in the first game to have that be the case. That way the Templars would know that the POE was in Italy..though from the look of the map they could have gone just about anywhere to find one...

And why they would want that particular Apple is beyond me... since they dont know that Minerva touched it when Ezio first brought into the vault...but anyway..

So all in all I had it backwards then...the Apple holds the location to the POE's and Absteergo was all over 16 because of the temple?

well if I have understood everything right, then..

if Altair's Apple was placed back in Cyprus before he died and then found by the Templars only to be taken by Ezio and locked away in Juno's temple to be found by Desmond....then that means that the Templars never had it to begin with...

And since they were so desperate to get there hands on it...and they did not need Desmond any more to find it, then if they really knew the Apples location why did they not get there first? Why go to the Assassin hide out? Why not just go to Italy get the Apple enslave man kind and once they controlled everyone's thoughts they would not have to worry about what info people knew or not...

It just seems strange to me. they capture Desmond to help them find where the Apple is and yet Desmond is able to find it before they get to it, and on top of that...Abstergo thought that the info that 16's ancestor had in Italy was important enough to work 16 to death and yet they are not smart enough to realize that 16 and Desmond are related and if they did know they were related decided for some strange reason to abandon their search for the vault...weird.

Dont get me wrong, I love the story and I think for the most part it is water tight, but some of the logistics between the three games don't quite come together...yet...maybe in the next one we will find out some master plan that Abstergo had hatched all along and what we thought Abstergo's motives were, will be completely wrong...

twenty_glyphs
07-13-2011, 10:06 AM
Altair's Codex has a page (Page 26) that says he knows the truth, and contains his first use of the term "prophet". It also says that he's finally tried to destroy the Apple, but can't. He then says he'll hide it in a treasury on the island that was once theirs, now ours. He had the Apple hidden on Cyprus in the old Templar Archives seen in the Bloodlines game and The Secret Crusade book. This was likely in the last 10 years of his life, as The Secret Crusade shows him still having the Apple in 1247, when he was 82. His last Codex entry suggests that he wants to take one last look at the Apple even though it's already been sealed away. We don't know what he saw or even did with the Apple after that. In Assassin's Creed 2, the Templars set sail from Venice for Cyprus to retrieve that Apple and return a couple of years later, where Ezio intercepts the Apple and then fights Rodrigo Borgia. That Apple is then altered somehow by Minerva in the Vault.

The only inconsistency in all this is Lucy saying the Piece of Eden at Masyaf was destroyed in the Denver International Airport accident. There are a lot of explanations the story can give for this, but I hope they at least address it. The simple answer is that Lucy was wrong or lied to about the Apple used in the DIA accident. Another answer could be that the Apple was switched at some point. Perhaps Altair hid a different Apple in Cyprus when he revisited the treasury to take one last look. Perhaps there's a different Apple in Altair's library in Masyaf that the Templars will find at the end of Ezio's story in Revelations. Maybe it was even rigged to cause the accident hundreds of years later.

We don't know what anyone really knows in the story, so it's hard to know what's really happening. When Lucy said Vidic was obsessed with Italy, she said she thought that he knew about the Vault. We don't know how Vidic even knew about Altair's Apple showing the map (though it could have been from their knowledge of the Codex), or what that map actually shows. That map from the end of AC1 also seems to have dots in the same place as temples seen on the Codex map in AC2 in addition to many more dots. We also don't know why Abstergo is so desperate to find Pieces of Eden with that map when several Truth puzzles in AC2 suggest that the Templars have at least 4 Apples as of 1969 -- one stolen from Houdini, one from Ghandi, one taken from JFK, and one found on the Moon during the first Moon landing.

ILIKESOUP94
07-13-2011, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by Mr_Shade:
Reading the title... I thought someone had spotted Desmond with an iPad.. LOL

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif haha! That was my first thought too!

Abeonis
07-13-2011, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by samward:
Dont get me wrong, I love the story and I think for the most part it is water tight, but some of the logistics between the three games don't quite come together...yet...maybe in the next one we will find out some master plan that Abstergo had hatched all along and what we thought Abstergo's motives were, will be completely wrong...

With respect, the "logistics" work fine, you're just not understanding it.

The map Altair saw at the end of AC showed him where the Pieces of Eden were at that time, 1911. In that year, the Apple wasn't in Italy, it was in Masyaf. Also, the Apple they're after is the one projecting the map, so said Apple wouldn't be on the map anyway.

As soon as he sees the map, Vidic states that recovery teams are being sent to those location to collect as many Pieces of Eden as possible.

Vidic does know 16 and Desmond are related, that's why Desmond was picked up.

LightRey
07-13-2011, 12:00 PM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
Dont get me wrong, I love the story and I think for the most part it is water tight, but some of the logistics between the three games don't quite come together...yet...maybe in the next one we will find out some master plan that Abstergo had hatched all along and what we thought Abstergo's motives were, will be completely wrong...

With respect, the "logistics" work fine, you're just not understanding it.

The map Altair saw at the end of AC showed him where the Pieces of Eden were at that time, 1911. In that year, the Apple wasn't in Italy, it was in Masyaf. Also, the Apple they're after is the one projecting the map, so said Apple wouldn't be on the map anyway.

As soon as he sees the map, Vidic states that recovery teams are being sent to those location to collect as many Pieces of Eden as possible.

Vidic does know 16 and Desmond are related, that's why Desmond was picked up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Eh there's no reason to assume he knew/knows Desmond and 16 are related. It's possible he did or at least suspected, but he could just have picked him up because the templars found out about his connection to the assassins.

blazefp
07-13-2011, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by samward:
Though I wonder then what POE blew up in Denver?


Let me answer you with something I've Already said:


Originally posted by blazefp:
Was the apple destroyed in that accident AI says it happened? Cuz I think it was the staff. Check out assassin's wikia, I'm pretty sure it was the staff not the apple but I may be wrong. Either way assassin's wikia has all the answers to your questions you just have to look for them

samward
07-13-2011, 12:38 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
Though I wonder then what POE blew up in Denver?


Let me answer you with something I've Already said:


Originally posted by blazefp:
Was the apple destroyed in that accident AI says it happened? Cuz I think it was the staff. Check out assassin's wikia, I'm pretty sure it was the staff not the apple but I may be wrong. Either way assassin's wikia has all the answers to your questions you just have to look for them </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well then do you want to explain to me how they pried the staff out of the ground then? Unless there is more then one of those too! It seemed pretty immovable when Ezio tried to take it...
Also while that site does contain a lot of useful info is also a big site...but if you refuse to just explain it then I guess i am going to have to go try and figure out where the info is on the site.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

ULT1M4T3
07-13-2011, 12:51 PM
The Royal Staff was destroyed in 1908 in Tunguska.
The accident in Denver was caused by an Apple in 2007.
Here's what Lucy says: They canít... itís not that simple. The artifact from Masyaf... they had it. It was destroyed in the accident.

She says like they found it in Masyaf, so maybe Altair left another one there.

Also, in AC1, Vidic receives this e-mail:
I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I KNOW WHAT YOU DID. I SAW HIM. HE HAD A METAL BALL. IT OPENED. THEY WENT CRAZY. SHOOTING. STABBING. TORE EACH OTHER TO PIECES. I KNOW IT WAS YOU PEOPLE. SAW THE LOGO. HEARD THE NAME. I'M GOING TO TELL. ANYONE WHO WILL LISTEN. YOU'LL BE EXPOSED. THEY'LL KNOW THE TRUTH. AND THEN YOU WILL PAY. YOU CRAZY BASTARDS. YOU'LL PAY.

He had metal ball- doesn't sound like staff..
Also, 'it opened'. Any idea what does that mean? It reminds me of the t-shirt form ubiworkshop with what looks like opened apple.

Link (http://www.ubiworkshop.com/post/?pid=2511)

samward
07-13-2011, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
Dont get me wrong, I love the story and I think for the most part it is water tight, but some of the logistics between the three games don't quite come together...yet...maybe in the next one we will find out some master plan that Abstergo had hatched all along and what we thought Abstergo's motives were, will be completely wrong...

With respect, the "logistics" work fine, you're just not understanding it.

The map Altair saw at the end of AC showed him where the Pieces of Eden were at that time, 1911. In that year, the Apple wasn't in Italy, it was in Masyaf. Also, the Apple they're after is the one projecting the map, so said Apple wouldn't be on the map anyway.

As soon as he sees the map, Vidic states that recovery teams are being sent to those location to collect as many Pieces of Eden as possible.

Vidic does know 16 and Desmond are related, that's why Desmond was picked up. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ok so when I started this thread I was bit off base, but after some gentle mind nudging, I did recall that in the first game the Apple did indeed show the POE locations and it was the back of the Codex in the second that had the locations of the temples...Its been a long day...sorry for my slowness...and my mistake. despite this though some of what you have said does not make any sense...

Why would the Apple be at Masyaf? If you think about it linearly... Altair's Apple went to Ezio, who hid it in Rome and that is where it stayed...so why would it be in Masyaf? It would have been in Italy ...even though they were looking into the past through Desmond, that does not change what has already happened...

unless you are saying that the image that the apple projects changes with the current time and location of the POE's...if this is the case then yes you would be right...but then the map would not be much use to them as it would be very much out of date, and most of the POE's most likely would have been moved at one time or another...

All in all, I was just saying that the Templars actions seem rather illogical between games.

Fair enough maybe at the end of AC1 they were after the POE's in general and not that participial Apple... that would explain why Desmond was able to find the Apple before them... but even so, it does not explain why Vidic would be come "obsessed" ( The word I believe Lucy uses) with Italy with 16 and then deiced after he has a new subject that it is no longer important...

I have no problem with them wanting to kill him , that makes perfect sense, what does not make sense is that they would not want to probe him for info on the Vault before they did so.

samward
07-13-2011, 01:03 PM
Originally posted by ULT1M4T3:
The Royal Staff was destroyed in 1908 in Tunguska.
The accident in Denver was caused by an Apple in 2007.
Here's what Lucy says: They canít... itís not that simple. The artifact from Masyaf... they had it. It was destroyed in the accident.

She says like they found it in Masyaf, so maybe Altair left another one there.

Also, in AC1, Vidic receives this e-mail:
I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING. I KNOW WHAT YOU DID. I SAW HIM. HE HAD A METAL BALL. IT OPENED. THEY WENT CRAZY. SHOOTING. STABBING. TORE EACH OTHER TO PIECES. I KNOW IT WAS YOU PEOPLE. SAW THE LOGO. HEARD THE NAME. I'M GOING TO TELL. ANYONE WHO WILL LISTEN. YOU'LL BE EXPOSED. THEY'LL KNOW THE TRUTH. AND THEN YOU WILL PAY. YOU CRAZY BASTARDS. YOU'LL PAY.

He had metal ball- doesn't sound like staff..
Also, 'it opened'. Any idea what does that mean? It reminds me of the t-shirt form ubiworkshop with what looks like opened apple.

Link (http://www.ubiworkshop.com/post/?pid=2511)

Thank you! I knew I was not crazy... hahah ... I think your answer has made more sense then anyone today! Maybe he did have another Apple..that would be perfectly logical... and would still allow Ezio's Apple to be the same one we see in the first game. After all we have no clue what happened to Altair in the last few years of his life.

blazefp
07-13-2011, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by samward:
well then do you want to explain to me how they pried the staff out of the ground then? Unless there is more then one of those too! It seemed pretty immovable when Ezio tried to take it...
Also while that site does contain a lot of useful info is also a big site...but if you refuse to just explain it then I guess i am going to have to go try and figure out where the info is on the site.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Well, first Ezio tried with his bare hands. I'm sure abstergo didn't sent one man to try to take it from the ground.
Second, Nicolai Orelov (I think he's an assassin from the XX century presented in an Assassin's creed's comic book)was already in contact with the staff so someone took it from the ground. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18154/1512390-assassin_screedthefall_issue2_super.jpg

And finally third, Wikia is indeed a giant site. This may be a surprise to you but there's a small room on the top-right of the site where you may put what you are looking for. Then you press the enter button and it looks for you at the entire site.

LightRey
07-13-2011, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
Though I wonder then what POE blew up in Denver?


Let me answer you with something I've Already said:


Originally posted by blazefp:
Was the apple destroyed in that accident AI says it happened? Cuz I think it was the staff. Check out assassin's wikia, I'm pretty sure it was the staff not the apple but I may be wrong. Either way assassin's wikia has all the answers to your questions you just have to look for them </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

but the wikia says that the staff was destroyed by Nikola Tesla (blessed be our Lord, Master of the electromagnetic field). Now it could be that that piece was one of its shards, which apparently still hold power, but even then...

samward
07-13-2011, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
well then do you want to explain to me how they pried the staff out of the ground then? Unless there is more then one of those too! It seemed pretty immovable when Ezio tried to take it...
Also while that site does contain a lot of useful info is also a big site...but if you refuse to just explain it then I guess i am going to have to go try and figure out where the info is on the site.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Well, first Ezio tried with his bare hands. I'm sure abstergo didn't sent one man to try to take it from the ground.
Second, Nicolai Orelov (I think he's an assassin from the XX century presented in an Assassin's creed's comic book)was already in contact with the staff so someone took it from the ground. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18154/1512390-assassin_screedthefall_issue2_super.jpg

And finally third, Wikia is indeed a giant site. This may be a surprise to you but there's a small room on the top-right of the site where you may put what you are looking for. Then you press the enter button and it looks for you at the entire site. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well thanks for the spoiler on the comic... :/

And yes I do know how to search a site... does not mean that the search you submit comes back with what you are looking for though.

I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

LightRey
07-13-2011, 05:54 PM
Originally posted by blazefp:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
well then do you want to explain to me how they pried the staff out of the ground then? Unless there is more then one of those too! It seemed pretty immovable when Ezio tried to take it...
Also while that site does contain a lot of useful info is also a big site...but if you refuse to just explain it then I guess i am going to have to go try and figure out where the info is on the site.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Well, first Ezio tried with his bare hands. I'm sure abstergo didn't sent one man to try to take it from the ground.
Second, Nicolai Orelov (I think he's an assassin from the XX century presented in an Assassin's creed's comic book)was already in contact with the staff so someone took it from the ground. http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/1/18154/1512390-assassin_screedthefall_issue2_super.jpg

And finally third, Wikia is indeed a giant site. This may be a surprise to you but there's a small room on the top-right of the site where you may put what you are looking for. Then you press the enter button and it looks for you at the entire site. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well, either that or there was another staff.

blazefp
07-14-2011, 04:54 AM
Apparently there are 6 apples of eden and one of them was destroyed in DIA (Denver Internacional airport) satellite accident. So I was wrong. The staff wasn't destroyed in that accident.
However it was destroyed at 7:14 a.m. on June 30th of 1908 in tunguska by an explosion caused by one assassin: Nicola Tesla. The explosion also injured Nicolai Orelov in the process but he was rescued later.
AI only found out about this in 2012.

Tunguska Explosion (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Tunguska_explosion)

And now I can say for sure that you were right. There really is an incongruity in Lucy's words so I'm guessing she weren't aware of the existence of the 6 apples.


Originally posted in Assassinscreed.wikia.com:
In Assassin's Creed, Lucy clearly states the Piece of Eden possessed by AltaÔr Ibn-La'Ahad was the same Piece that was destroyed during the DIA satellite accident. In Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, however, this same Apple is shown to be hidden in the Colosseum Vault by Ezio Auditore da Firenze, where it remains until its recovery in 2012.

Yu can see it here (http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/DIA_satellite_accident)

Abeonis
07-14-2011, 07:03 AM
Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish...

samward
07-14-2011, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

come on man, that really does not apply here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

LightRey
07-14-2011, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

come on man, that really does not apply here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
well it kinda does, but it's a little far-fetched.

samward
07-15-2011, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

come on man, that really does not apply here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
well it kinda does, but it's a little far-fetched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really dont see how it applys, far fetched or not...

The quote is: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

The point of the quote, of corse, is saying that if you give man something he is seeking that is good for the moment, but if you teach him how to do it for himself, then he can fend for himself or solve his situation for life.

Inorder for it to apply to our conversation, he would have had to teach me something I did not already know. As it is, he has not. I know how to search the internet, so no skill gained. But what he does not seem to understand is that I also like to use my time wisly...and while there is a time to search for answers on your own... there is also a time to gleen information or answers from thoes you are conversing with.

Afterall if some was, lets say online chatting to the creators of the Wicki AC page, I doubt they would ignor them and go look on the site to find the information...somthing tells me they, like most people, would simply ask the quetion as they chatted.

That was all I was doing. Just asking and having a conversation about some possible loop holes I thought could be in the overall storyline.

LightRey
07-15-2011, 02:12 AM
Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

come on man, that really does not apply here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
well it kinda does, but it's a little far-fetched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really dont see how it applys, far fetched or not...

The quote is: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

The point of the quote, of corse, is saying that if you give man something he is seeking that is good for the moment, but if you teach him how to do it for himself, then he can fend for himself or solve his situation for life.

Inorder for it to apply to our conversation, he would have had to teach me something I did not already know. As it is, he has not. I know how to search the internet, so no skill gained. But what he does not seem to understand is that I also like to use my time wisly...and while there is a time to search for answers on your own... there is also a time to gleen information or answers from thoes you are conversing with.

Afterall if some was, lets say online chatting to the creators of the Wicki AC page, I doubt they would ignor them and go look on the site to find the information...somthing tells me they, like most people, would simply ask the quetion as they chatted.

That was all I was doing. Just asking and having a conversation about some possible loop holes I thought could be in the overall storyline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
by not linking, but rather explaining, instead of merely giving you the answer, he also gives you the knowledge that you are stupid (not my words), therefore helping you with every future stupid question/statement.
That's how it applies.
EDIT: I know the meaning of the phrase. Stop being arrogant and expect others to see more than you do.

samward
07-15-2011, 03:22 AM
Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

come on man, that really does not apply here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
well it kinda does, but it's a little far-fetched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't see how it applies, far fetched or not...

The quote is: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

The point of the quote, of course, is saying that if you give man something he is seeking that is good for the moment, but if you teach him how to do it for himself, then he can fend for himself or solve his situation for life.

In order for it to apply to our conversation, he would have had to teach me something I did not already know. As it is, he has not. I know how to search the internet, so no skill gained. But what he does not seem to understand is that I also like to use my time wisely...and while there is a time to search for answers on your own... there is also a time to glean information or answers from those you are conversing with.

After all if some was, lets say online chatting to the creators of the Wicki AC page, I doubt they would ignore them and go look on the site to find the information...something tells me they, like most people, would simply ask the question as they chatted.

That was all I was doing. Just asking and having a conversation about some possible loop holes I thought could be in the overall storyline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

by not linking, but rather explaining, instead of merely giving you the answer, he also gives you the knowledge that you are stupid (not my words), therefore helping you with every future stupid question/statement.
That's how it applies.
EDIT: I know the meaning of the phrase. Stop being arrogant and expect others to see more than you do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look I was not being arrogant. So I am honestly sorry if you took it that way. And my question was not stupid, hence why not even he had the right info. A group of people were merely talking about some aspects of the game. Nothing more or less. He did not help me in any way, shape or form...unlike others on the thread who were kind enough to talk and discuss the aspects of the topic.

Lots of people ask questions on this site, lots of people go over info that has been talked about a lot; and they are not chastised like this... I am sorry if my wondering if there was inconsistencies has offended you, or him any any way.

I was not trying to start an argument or to make anyone upset. I even apologized to him before he posted the quote at hand. I really do not think it was an appropriate response, and I was not trying to be demeaning to you in my response. I was just clarifying the meaning of the quote. It really does not apply, and was simply written as more of an insult then anything else, which was not called for.

yeah... so I am sorry if I have upset you...It was really not my intention.

LightRey
07-15-2011, 03:46 AM
Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LightRey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Abeonis:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by samward:
I was not trying to be mean... I was just saying if you possess the info or a direct link it would much more helpful to post it directly rather then make someone wast a bunch of time looking for info you already have...

Give a man a fish... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

come on man, that really does not apply here... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
well it kinda does, but it's a little far-fetched. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I really don't see how it applies, far fetched or not...

The quote is: "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime."

The point of the quote, of course, is saying that if you give man something he is seeking that is good for the moment, but if you teach him how to do it for himself, then he can fend for himself or solve his situation for life.

In order for it to apply to our conversation, he would have had to teach me something I did not already know. As it is, he has not. I know how to search the internet, so no skill gained. But what he does not seem to understand is that I also like to use my time wisely...and while there is a time to search for answers on your own... there is also a time to glean information or answers from those you are conversing with.

After all if some was, lets say online chatting to the creators of the Wicki AC page, I doubt they would ignore them and go look on the site to find the information...something tells me they, like most people, would simply ask the question as they chatted.

That was all I was doing. Just asking and having a conversation about some possible loop holes I thought could be in the overall storyline. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

by not linking, but rather explaining, instead of merely giving you the answer, he also gives you the knowledge that you are stupid (not my words), therefore helping you with every future stupid question/statement.
That's how it applies.
EDIT: I know the meaning of the phrase. Stop being arrogant and expect others to see more than you do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look I was not being arrogant. So I am honestly sorry if you took it that way. And my question was not stupid, hence why not even he had the right info. A group of people were merely talking about some aspects of the game. Nothing more or less. He did not help me in any way, shape or form...unlike others on the thread who were kind enough to talk and discuss the aspects of the topic.

Lots of people ask questions on this site, lots of people go over info that has been talked about a lot; and they are not chastised like this... I am sorry if my wondering if there was inconsistencies has offended you, or him any any way.

I was not trying to start an argument or to make anyone upset. I even apologized to him before he posted the quote at hand. I really do not think it was an appropriate response, and I was not trying to be demeaning to you in my response. I was just clarifying the meaning of the quote. It really does not apply, and was simply written as more of an insult then anything else, which was not called for.

yeah... so I am sorry if I have upset you...It was really not my intention. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
nobody's upset. I said "not my words" referring to the 'stupid' bit.
The part about arrogance was just me being annoyed by the nature your posts.