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GazzaMataz
10-11-2004, 08:36 AM
I don't know if this has been mentioned before, I haven't seen it so I thought I'd speak up. I have been following this forum for while now and I have seen many a mention from newbies about being thrashed when playing online for the first time. I know what it is like cos its happened to me.

It is demoralising, I know you can practice and practice, but I think it can put some people off. Great for the experienced pilots, but do they really get a thrill out of constantly shooting down the unitiated?

What I thought could perhaps be implemented on some servers is a rating system. So that you can see what level of experience you are likely to be flying against by joining a particular server. This could be based on number of kills. That way the newbies could fly against each other and have more of a fighting chance then take the plunge and join a more advanced server to improve their skills.

Does this sound like a good idea? Could it be done?

HART_dreyer
10-11-2004, 08:41 AM
You learn faster by flying against those whom are better than you. =/

GazzaMataz
10-11-2004, 09:48 AM
Dreyer, I knew you would say that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I must admit that I was picking up a few tips from my first endevours.

BUT!

After being shot down consistently it does get a tad demoralising and one tends to withdraw and lick one's wounds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif

muHamad-ALi
10-11-2004, 11:03 AM
But then the question arises:
how do you learn if there exists no one pilot better than yourself?

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-11-2004, 11:11 AM
A rating system could be interesting, but I fear it would lead to an even higher rate of "elitist" egos and, in turn, would be bad for the community.

If you go through HL, there are a number of servers listed there with easy settings that proclaim to be "new-player friendly". If the settings are more difficult chances are the pilot skill level will be higher.

I offer the same advice as others though and that is to hook up with another pilot (even another "new" pilot if necessary) and get on coms if at all possible. Your success rate will improve exponentially if you keep at it.

As another alternative, you can always simply climb and observe from your high perch. Most onliners don't venture past 5k on average and you can get a feel of the entire battle from up there if you pay attention.

Just a few thoughts.

TB

nightnight
10-11-2004, 11:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
A rating system could be interesting, but I fear it would lead to an even higher rate of "elitist" egos and, in turn, would be bad for the community.

If you go through HL, there are a number of servers listed there with easy settings that proclaim to be "new-player friendly". If the settings are more difficult chances are the pilot skill level will be higher.

I offer the same advice as others though and that is to hook up with another pilot (even another "new" pilot if necessary) and get on coms if at all possible. Your success rate will improve exponentially if you keep at it.

As another alternative, you can always simply climb and observe from your high perch. Most onliners don't venture past 5k on average and you can get a feel of the entire battle from up there if you pay attention.

Just a few thoughts.

TB <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi ! I just wan´t to back-up thunders opinion here, it would probably just worsen things. I feel bad when I here rookies get harassed online, of course I understand they will get shot down but there is no need for trashing, in my eyes that´s just degrading for the trasher.
BTW, it´s very hard to make a rating based on figures like online kills, so I guess one just has to join a server where most people don,t behave like 6-year old kids, and that oneself act equally respectfull towards other players as an example.
Regards nightnight

flyingscampi
10-11-2004, 11:48 AM
I only play on the difficult servers so that I can watch the tracks afterwards to learn from.

You get quite a few tips on the chat as well like how to recover from spins, bail out, that kind of thing...bah

HART_dreyer
10-11-2004, 12:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GazzaMataz:
Dreyer, I knew you would say that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I must admit that I was picking up a few tips from my first endevours.

BUT!

After being shot down consistently it does get a tad demoralising and one tends to withdraw and lick one's wounds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I guess it depends how you look at it. When I was a newbie and got beat by someone better than me, it did not really demoralize me, but rather it made me angry. I don't like loosing. Then I used that anger to learn how to turn the tables.

GazzaMataz
10-12-2004, 02:48 AM
Hmmm, all points taken it does seem difficult. Perhaps there should just be one server for newbies only just to fly around in and have DF with each other to just cut their teeth.

For me personally, I can fly, land, take-off, get outta stalls and spins. However, I cannot seem to shake someone off my 6, my gunnery needs honing and I nearly always overshoot. But I have learnt this from flying on-line so I am learning. I need a wingman.

BTW, I wasn't really saying that there were a load of 6-year olds out there, fortunately I haven't bumped into any yet... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Thanks all!

HART_dreyer
10-12-2004, 09:16 AM
Getting someone good off your 6 can be, quite frankly, impossible without getting shot at. Once you are in that situation you are already asking the magic 8 ball the question "am I boned?".

Best way to keep someone of your 6 is to never get in that situation. When I fly seriously I don't fly with the intention of staying on somebody's 6, I rarely do that. It€s dangerous and foolish in most situations. I don€t want my enemy to control my speed and path.

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-12-2004, 09:33 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by HART_dreyer:
When I fly seriously I don't fly with the intention of staying on somebody's 6, I rarely do that. It€s dangerous and foolish in most situations. I don€t want my enemy to control my speed and path. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Precisely. You need to stalk, approach, hit (and hit hard!) and get out. All the while maintaining Superior energy to prevent the rapid acquisition and tracking of you by your intended victim.

Slick750
10-12-2004, 09:52 AM
What Dreyer says is true, alot of times I get killed because I'm chasing a bandit, he's usually following one of my teammates that turns so **** much it makes it dificult to help and bleeds my speed too. Best thing to do if somebody's on your *** like diaper is run towards friendlies and try to make it easier for them to shoot the guy down. I'm not for ratings or even points, all it does is create brainless killing machines that care about their score more then the outcome of the game or survival of teammates. LMAO at guys who dive guns blazing at a falling plane with a wing missing.

HART_dreyer
10-12-2004, 09:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I'm not for ratings or even points, all it does is create brainless killing machines that care about their score more then the outcome of the game or survival of teammates. LMAO at guys who dive guns blazing at a falling plane with a wing missing. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As George Carlin says, JUST LIKE NOW!

crazyivan1970
10-12-2004, 10:41 AM
While in the learning curve try to change your objectives Gazza, make primary one is to stay alive and secondary to get a kill. It helps, one you learn how to maintain constant advantage over your opponents, you might start bothering them. Going into furball is pretty much signing a death warrant http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Just my 02c

GazzaMataz
10-12-2004, 10:54 AM
Owww! More replies...

Well, I did try that trick when you got someone on your *rse to fly for friendlies, kinda like using yourself as bait for your team mates - as long as you don't get shot down in the process http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I agree with you Slick about brainless killing machines. I get far more fun out of a good fight than just mindlessly shooting planes outta the sky (although I have only done this twice and have been a victim dozens of times). It's almost like trying to prove who has got the biggest willy.

I think I will avoid getting on peoples six, BnZ tactics for me from now on - well I'll try...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Going into furball is pretty much signing a death warrant <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What is furball?

Thanks for the tips guys http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

crazyivan1970
10-12-2004, 10:59 AM
Furball is a bunch of planes on the deck or MID/LOW altitude fighting each other in turnfight http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

LStarosta
10-12-2004, 03:10 PM
You can get someone off your six at least temporarily by forcing them to bleed off their energy, and then using your aircraft's advantages to the max (i.e. if you're flying Fw190, use your superior roll rate to initiate scissors to reduce your enemy's guns solutions to a minimum. At this point unless your pursuer is a newb, it is almost impossible to get on his six, let alone get him off yours. Most experienced pilots will jump you when you're not expecting it, shoot you down in their first pass, or atleast cripple you substantially, then they'll pull for altitude and finish you off.

This is why you should fly with a wingman.

crazyivan1970
10-12-2004, 03:27 PM
Snacky, that was un-neccessary IMO.

VW-IceFire
10-12-2004, 04:28 PM
GazzaMataz...I can tell you...my first adventures into the world of HyperLobby saw me get shot down alot. Particularly on the AFJ server back a year ago or so. They were good...I was average. I knew, from single player experience, how to fly my plane, shoot decently, operate the basics...but air combat against human opponents took me a long time to learn to be effective. Now I am good...but only sometimes and sometimes I still get whacked by either a superior pilot or because I was stupid and put myself into the situation.

You can count yourself as being "experienced" when you can adequately describe how you screwed up. Not by the number of kill tallys you have http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

My recommendation is to my your time online and offline. QMB I still fly...learning plane matchups (FW190 against alot of things http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and learning how to aim, practice deflection shooting, and get a very close feel for the aircraft I'm flying. Then when you do go online you have to worry less about those things.

The other recommendation is learn to be a mud mover. The IL-2, P-47, FW190F-8, or if you're a particular type...the He-111 or Ju-87 are good options. It makes life more interesting on a dogfight server...you learn to avoid contact with the enemy and deliver your payload...either to the enemy base or to targets setup in the scenario. I do this when I know its not my day for complex air combat.

WTE_DuStA
10-12-2004, 10:13 PM
i can suggest the best way for you to get good is to join a squadron that you feel comfortable with and you'll find your level of experience will increase 10 fold compared to just puttering around servers on your own. There is nothing better than a good wingman on comms

WUAF_Badsight
10-12-2004, 10:25 PM
pratice

there is no other way

the best pratice is to be in a room full of players who are better than yourself

dogfighting is just instinct , the only skill required in FB is in being a good shot

VFA-195 Snacky
10-13-2004, 01:20 AM
what was? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Snacky, that was un-neccessary IMO. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

GazzaMataz
10-13-2004, 03:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>You want a tissue??
Sorry, but the good pilots didn't get good by having the attitude of "being shot down consistently it does get a tad demoralising and one tends to withdraw and lick one's wounds".
Not trying to add to your demoralization, but there are two types of people in this world. Ones who stay and fight and ones who run and hide. Make your choice, but after all it's only a game.lol <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh don't worry Snacky I don't need a tissue just some more practice and a few tips I ain't sulking either, and I am definately am a fighter - just new to the online scenario.

Anyway, don't forget I was speaking in view of what all the other newbie onliners were saying which is what prompted this post - not just me.

That's why I will keep coming back for more, cos it is just a game and I don't take it seriously.

Bull-Dog.
10-13-2004, 06:04 AM
I have also stuggled with the adjustments required to fly on-line. My advice is not to worry about kills or points.
I started off as gun fodder for most of the pilots found on-line but now I make them work for their kill. This is where the fun is. I occasionaly get positive comments from pilots I consider as good pilots, which is worth far more to me that a dozen kills (I do get a few).
I recently chased a plane to the deck and caused it to explode just a few feet of the ground. Having to much gained speed I avoided collision with the plane by going under the exploding plane and zooming up and away. I was scraping the ground and as I looked up, the exploding plane was right above. I dont know how I got away with it, but those who saw it thought it was great and told me so. I cant tell you how good that made me feel. This is when you realise that your are gaining experience and will eventualy be able to fight and win against the best.
If and when that happens, will I enjoy the sim so much?