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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 07:28 AM
I re loaded CFS3 decided to give it another try because I checked the web sight and there were updates to the game. Well I have come to a conclusion. We have all become spoiled by IL2 FB. Its the best out there by far. Microsoft is what seems to be like 6 years behind IL2. I really had forgotten how bad CFS3 is. I had forgotten how mad I was that I spent $50 dollars on a piece of crap. Anyone that is mad the patch is not here or is upset that a plane might not roll just right, or mabey how a gun sight might be positioned go and get your copy of CFS3 if you can find it. Ok now re install it. (dont worry it wont be on your hard drive long). Go online and fly. You will be so mad in about 5 min or less you wont whine about FB for at least 3-4 months. If whineing does re start just re install CFS3 and whine should go away for another 3-4 months.

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 07:28 AM
I re loaded CFS3 decided to give it another try because I checked the web sight and there were updates to the game. Well I have come to a conclusion. We have all become spoiled by IL2 FB. Its the best out there by far. Microsoft is what seems to be like 6 years behind IL2. I really had forgotten how bad CFS3 is. I had forgotten how mad I was that I spent $50 dollars on a piece of crap. Anyone that is mad the patch is not here or is upset that a plane might not roll just right, or mabey how a gun sight might be positioned go and get your copy of CFS3 if you can find it. Ok now re install it. (dont worry it wont be on your hard drive long). Go online and fly. You will be so mad in about 5 min or less you wont whine about FB for at least 3-4 months. If whineing does re start just re install CFS3 and whine should go away for another 3-4 months.

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 08:18 AM
Hope you've learnt your lesson! Stick with FB.



http://www.student.richmond.edu/~vk5qa/images/forumsig.jpg


"Come on in, I'll treat you right. I used to know your daddy."

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:28 AM
Lesson well learned! I still can't get Sucker Paul rubbed off my for head, and you know what really drives me nuts, all those peeps that love it, and still wont admit to the force feed back being screwed! Remember CFS 2 how when shot by enemy aircraft or flak, how your stick would jump, used too scare the bugeebas out of me, Crap here I go again! Why M$ O! Why! All the time I wasted on that peace of fluffy eye candy! And when I did get it to run! What's the point? No on-line help, single player dumb as a rockers wife (sorry Hun you know I love you) than after wiping out three or four ships, as many bandits, that your wingman don't tell you about! You can go home and watch your whole flight crash landing, and that's the most I've ever said here! Think I'll go hug a kitten now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

michapma
07-29-2003, 09:30 AM
CFS3's not bad, it can even be fun-it's just no FB. Not by a long shot.

Mike



<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:58 AM
I shouldn't get all bent over it, just had high expectations, still have my copy, if M$ ever gets there head out, I mite load it again, but doesn't look good, if there is a CFS 4 it'll be for Xbox, by the way Thx for your sig it's been of help more than once! And saved some one from having too answer yet another n00b questions

michapma
07-29-2003, 10:33 AM
D13-th_Hamm109, you're very welcome! The guide is meant to be especially useful in answering some of the "noob" questions, but I hope it will go on to raise more and better questions. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 10:37 AM
CFS 3 lasted on my HD for about a month, hardly any playing -maybe 3-4 days of playing that silly dynamic campaign, I gave it up.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products/list/48plane_img/61041.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 10:48 AM
I tried hard, yes I gave CFS3 a fair go, (this was before FB was out) Had for about 2 months- I was hoping patch would make it better. It didn`t. Ran back to original IL2. If IL2 had not existed this would have been considered marvelous. vanelvis is right- we have been spoiled /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Now`s about the time that someone will whine up for the dying CFS3...

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:05 PM
I really wanted to like it. I only bought it so I could fly a Mosquito, and I hoped it would at least be a little bit fun.

It wasn't.

Still, sold the thing on Ebay for as much as I paid for it.

SSS

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:21 PM
SpinSpinSugar wrote:
-
- I really wanted to like it. I only bought it so I
- could fly a Mosquito, and I hoped it would at least
- be a little bit fun.
-
- It wasn't.
-
- ...
-
- SSS
-


Really!? I only bought IL-2:FB so I could fly the P-40, and it's been a blast! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


(Oh, on a side note, part of why I chose FB was that it got a tad better reviews, and that you lot seemed crazy enough. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif And the P-40...gotta love that bird!)

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:26 PM
Really ? I had same experience yesterday. CfS3 looked ugly and stuttered badly. It is not a crappy game, but light years behind IL2 FB.

I really liked CfS3 when it came out, played two campaigns through, maybe I'll play that third campaign to it's end some day...some day on the next decade http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif goes with the power of nostalgia.

Reiskapappa

"Be your own disciple"

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:26 PM
Thanks mate I had been thinking of reloading it now that the patch is available,wont bother now.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 02:06 PM
CFS3 . . . Hmmm. Go here and get the FB mission at the bottom that I made while really ANGRY at CFS3. Make sure you read all the info. It shows M$ that a game can actually do the things that they promised everyone CFS3 could do; But it ain't CFS3!!! Hey, I am about to break 500 downloads. Guess I'm not the only one that is angry.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/stiaan/il2.htm

http://home.att.net/~C.C.Jordan/XP-39best.JPG


Death is just nature's way of telling you to watch your airspeed.

http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 02:19 PM
CFS3 I would rate as a 5 compared to a 10 for FB. It is also very unstable on my machine where FB is rock solid.
Microsoft should be ashamed of CFS3 just because it is a shoddy piece of work. Had it been done with the care of FB it would be a very interesting sim. It wasn't the concept or design it was the execution that made it so much less.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 02:26 PM
I actually upgraded my computer from a PII233MHZ to my current XP1600 system for CFS3. I got IL2 while I was waiting and havent looked back.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 02:31 PM
I bought CFS 3 cheep just to try it out and see what you guys talked about.First the stutter,even at low res and graph option,slightliy disappointed.Then you can destroy a building with just machineguns....even more disappointed:No gunsight for the B25(there must have been one,right?)so how to aim properly?Ok,why complaint,I´ve read it was no good but I didn´t think it was that bad(CFS 2 was good).If they just could fix the stutter I would play it.

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1059422893.jpg


"I´m a sad man,I´m sure I am"

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 03:13 PM
You can destroy everything with just guns.

All objects have a certain amount of hitpoints and can be damaged by all weapons.

I even managed to destroy a Jagdtiger in a frontal attack with 2x.50 machine guns and 2x20mm cannons.

CFS3 has some good aspects but not nearly as many as FB.

I got my CFS3 for free, just as FB so you don't hear me complaining in any way.

<center> http://www.322squadron.com/images/322.gif </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 07:39 PM
I bought CFS3 last Thursday, because I had seen that a patch was out, and I was curious about the ground explosion effects, etc, which i THINK I'd heard were supposed to be so great....

I installed it patched it, flew it...and Uninstalled it all in the space of 90 minutes. I return it today...to the only retail store/chain I knew of which gives UNconditional full money refund, for ANY reason.....such as, in this case, "This product sucks..I'd like my money back, please!"

<center>Wiley</center><center><font color="#FF0000";font size="3pt">Click HERE to visit Wiley'sWWIIGunCameraWorld (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)</center>
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<center><font size ="2pt">Click Flag-Raising for the Full-Size(4.2Mb) Version</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 08:18 PM
I've just installed CFS2 for the first time: (picked up a second hand copy for a few pounds). I think I'll keep it installed, just to mess around with the addons and stuff. It's quite a nice game, as long as you turn a blind eye to the 'simulator' part of the title.

Graphically, The genius of Il2/FB is the way it looks beautiful at any distance. The scenery actually looked really pretty for CFS2 once you got high enough. On the ground, it looks horrible. The quantum leap forward that Il2 made still strikes me as quite extraordinary.

I played CFS3 once and was staggered by its uselessness.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:17 PM
you know, I've looked at the CFS3 box a couple of times now. Always I decided to put it back. I'm just wondering about one thing. If MS had put the amount of work they had put into FS into CFS as well, what would happen then?

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:45 PM
Sharpe26 wrote:
- you know, I've looked at the CFS3 box a couple of
- times now. Always I decided to put it back. I'm
- just wondering about one thing. If MS had put the
- amount of work they had put into FS into CFS as
- well, what would happen then?


There's what I don't understand. CFS(1) was a tremendous improvement on the graphics engine of FS98. IMO CFS2 was an improvement over FS2000. I still have, and enjoy FS2002, and thoroughly expected CFS3 to be pretty cool, especially after seeing that damned movie trailer. I understood that some liberties were taken with the story line, and all, but I assumed that at least the in-flight shots had been created using the game's graphic engine. Man, was I ever stupid! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg


Death is just nature's way of telling you to watch your airspeed.

http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 11:26 PM
I have CFS3 ( FS2002 also ) all packed up, ready to use as trade in for LOMAC.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 12:31 AM
I returned that piece of junk back to Microsoft (bought from Amazon) no questions asked they even paid me for the shipping.

Return your copy ! They will get the hint. If you buy it and it is a piece of crap and sits in your closet what do they care? They got your money! return it to them!!!

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 12:57 AM
I also have a few gripes with CFS3. #1, its graphics are a step BEHIND CFS2. The models are HORRIBLE!!! I have never seen so many badly modeled aircraft in my life. It amazes me that this is a pay product, and not some freeware mod. I have seen much better models out of mods in BF1942.

#2, the FM and DM are HORRIBLE!!!! Everything fly's like a robot with bad servo's is piloting it, and whats with the ping-pong ball like bulletes? If you get hit ANYWARE with ANYTHING, your aircraft slows down. Damage only makes the aircraft respond slower. If you get hit in the tail, your roll suffers and you go slower. Its stupid

Fortunatly I have a freelance job modeling some aircraft for CFS3. The people I am working with did a great job adding to the FM. The aircraft feels natural and they way it should. Also, the model is simply amazing. Well its done by me!

For example, I am limited to around 4000 pollygons in IL2. In CFS3, the Spit VB I did is around 13,000 pollygons. As for it slowing down the game, I had 12 of these 13,000 pollygon aircraft in view and it slowed down a little, but not unplayable. I have not yet done the LOD, so when they are far away it will be between 3000-1000 polly's per aircraft. I only have a GeForce 3.

CFS3 as it is now is crap. But it can be made into a good game. A lot of add-ons are being worked on, but its up to you if you want to pay for the add-on to make your CFS3 into a good game.

Gib


I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:48 AM
Its kind of funny Just yesterday I went on a rant about CFS3 and today I buy MSFS2004. I guess I will never learn. I think the problem with microsoft is that they really dont try to make the customer happy they just want to do just enuff to sell their product. I do like the new MSFS2004 pretty well. They added a few new planes and a few new objects. Planes are modeled well they look great, but you would think that over the course of 2 years they could improve the water the coast lines and the ground texture. I think the planes look stunning but the rest still looks cartoonish. Well any how I was not as disapointed as I was with CFS3 which I will more than likely not Buy CFS4 unless I see a drastick improvement. MSFS seems to be improved but slowly as for the CFS I think they took a step back.

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:57 AM
All the respect in the world Gibbage1, but stop telling me CFS3 can be made into a good game! Software should be released w/ good quality as-is! Were dose M$ get off selling a game that isn't finished yet?

CFS3 could have been a good game. But look at the timing of it's release. What they had is a game barely in Beta version that was released because the holiday season was coming.




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"Altitude, speed, maneuver, fire!"-The "formula of Terror" of Aleksandr Pokryshkin, Three times awarded the rank of Hero of the Soviet Union

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:18 AM
CFS3 is crap!Just compare cockpits of the FW-190.FB and IL2 beat cfs hands down!
C.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:50 AM
With all due respect, I think Quake 2 sucked big time! It was NOT a game. It was an engine. Look how popular 3rd party mods made it? CTF, Rocket Arena, Team Fotress. Stuff like that made Quake 2 into a game. I do agree that CFS3 is crap. I said that in my post. Its crap because the developer did not spend any time on it. My point is if 3rd party can improve it so much, whats the excuse of the developer? I really hope MS never uses the CFS3 team again. The FS series is by a totally differant team all togeather.

georgeo76 wrote:
- All the respect in the world Gibbage1, but stop
- telling me CFS3 can be made into a good game!
- Software should be released w/ good quality as-is!
- Were dose M$ get off selling a game that isn't
- finished yet?
-
- CFS3 could have been a good game. But look at the
- timing of it's release. What they had is a game
- barely in Beta version that was released because the
- holiday season was coming.
-
-
-
-

I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

<center><form action="https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr" method="post">
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michapma
07-30-2003, 08:33 AM
OberstWiley, I think one of the reasons CFS3 might have been no good for you is that your system isn't powerful enough to handle it. Even after the patch you need a powerful computer with a nice graphics card to get it to look nice, much less play smoothly. It takes time to optimize the settings and tweak the computer for visuals and game play. 90 minutes is too little time, in fact a week is not long enough to judge how it can look on your computer. But I don't blame you, as you know... /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif


vanelvis wrote:
- I think the problem with microsoft is
- that they really dont try to make the customer happy
- they just want to do just enuff to sell their
- product.

That's the key to understanding Microsoft products. I will not buy any more Microsoft games until a few months after its release, and only then once I have seen a majority of positive online critical reviews and seen how the game is supported. I have CFS2, FS2002 and CFS3, and that is enough for now. FS2k2 is a well-researched product, and there is a lot of good stuff in it. I think it is a well-made product, even if I don't like the ground or water textures, the sloppy terrain modeling or the way it performs on my computer (2.4GHz, GF4 Ti4200, 1GB DDRRAM). The instruments, ATC, navigation, flight lessons, etc. make up for the flight model and graphics, which are after all sufferable. (It's IL-2 that made the MSFS graphics seem like crap.)

It's Microsoft's practice of releasing a software based on a schedule and not on its state or content that upsets customers. They think we should have to replace our software (i.e., pay them for basically the same program) every one or two years. Whoever doesn't will be "left behind" by those who gobble up the new products. Look at their Office product. It gets regular releases, even though it only implements a few "features," which are often a step backward. The worst is that this is taken as the industry standard. When there are enough features programmed to make it different, and not necessarily significantly better, the product is released. Bugs and missing features will be developed for the next release. CFS3 should have come out in late 2003. It could have been good, but now it will be made okay by 3rd party work, which even if it is better will not be under one roof, which makes for an incoherent feel. What do you have installed? The open architecture has its drawbacks.

I have the feeling that FS2004 has volumetric clouds, lens flare, a couple of new airplane models and that's it. Oh, and improved weather (let us hope so). "A few new planes and a few new objects." Does that constitute a new sim? Not in my opinion. They should rework their terrain mesh and textures, and really develop some things. Then it might be a new sim.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:41 AM
the "accepted rule" with MSFS products is every second one is a dog


thus ....


FS 5.0... GOOD
FS95 ..... DOG
FS98 .... GOOD
FS2000 .... DOG
FS2002 .... GOOD

and hence
FS2004 ... DOG ???????

I will wait and see http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

michapma
07-30-2003, 09:05 AM
Galway, this shows what I am saying about them releasing on a schedule. If they cared at all, they would finish developing their products before releasing them. Instead, they thrust their incomplete products on their customers knowing they will be bought. If every second release is a dog, then the rate at which they release products is two times too high. Seems that way to me, anyway.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 01:03 PM
http://www.avhistory.org/Bear257Images/mollywide1.jpg

http://www.avhistory.org/Bear257Images/b17molly2a.jpg

http://www.avhistory.org/Bear257Images/3-bf110g.jpg

http://www.avhistory.org/Bear257Images/mollycontrail1.jpg

Zeke



Message Edited on 07/30/0302:16PM by reisen52

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 05:13 PM
Yep I bought it when it came out and installed it on my then GeForce 2MX system (I have an ATi 9500 pro now). I was appalled by the graphics so I loaded it up on my flatmates and put all settings on full and it still looked awful and the frames plummeted. There was hardly a difference in graphics quality.

I took it back to HMV and told them I'm not paying for this crap can I have my money back? and they gave it to me. I thought that the cockpits looked better in CFS 1, I can't believe after all these years they churn out this garbage with games like IL2 and FB being so amazing.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 06:48 PM
Those are very nice picks reisen52 and there in is the problem, 13,000 poly's makes for some nice eye candy but leaves nothing for playability, which is why the campaign cant generate more than 2 way points! Why you have no on-line support! And why after you destroy that very nice B-17 you can fly right threw it! I was amazed at what Gibbage1 can do with 4,000 poly! I didn't know that! I think they didn't just rush it out, look at what was left out, I think they hit the wall, and rather go back and improve on CFS 2 they gave us eye candy in arcade form, A complete lack of respect for the combat flight sim community...and am I too understand that flight sim 2004 is compatible with all previous flight sim's EXEPT CFS 3..again SLAP in the face, this community has proved where a bit more sophisticated than that.well most of time.

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:24 PM
- Galway, this shows what I am saying about them
- releasing on a schedule. If they cared at all, they
- would finish developing their products before
- releasing them. Instead, they thrust their
- incomplete products on their customers knowing they
- will be bought.


Unlike Ubi/Maddox. Of course.

(For the many irony-challenged among you: that was meant sarcastically.)

I have never tried CFS-3 and don't have any plans to. I was going to, because I've flown some CFS-3 planes that were adapted for use in FS2K2 and they were outstanding. But by now I've heard far too many complaints about performance and I had enough trouble with CFS-2.

I was surprised at first to hear all the negative reports, since it was supposed to be based on the FS2K2 engine, and FS2K2 is not merely good but excellent, indeed the best flight sim in existence. But then I realized this just proves what I've been saying: the requirements for a pure flight sim and a combat flight sim are radically different and what works for one doesn't work for another.

But it does sound pretty funny, all the same, to hear some of the remarks in here. CFS-3 stutters? So does FB, and the patch made it worse. CFS-3 has unrealistic damage effects? So does FB, but with FB there's no way of correcting this or anything else, all you can do is wait for the patch and hope (against all experience) that it's been fixed.

And for an FB fan to criticize MS for releasing a product that wasn't yet finished and ready for the market - after the way Maddox and Ubi shamelessly put out a buggy, thoroughly ballocksed-up sim that doesn't even qualify as a beta (a gamma perhaps?) - is not merely ridiculous but grotesque. Talk about the pot calling the kettle rotund.

I would also point out that Microsoft put out their first patch for CFS-3 four months after it was released....

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 07:59 PM
IMO there is no comparison to the problems with FB & CFS3... The scenery looks horrible in CFS3..the sky looks bad, sure they both stutter but out of the box FB beats CFS3 hands down.

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 08:15 PM
Blind_Joe_Death wrote:
- I have never tried CFS-3 and don't have any plans
- to. ...
- I was surprised at first to hear all the negative
- reports ...
-
- But it does sound pretty funny, all the same, to
- hear some of the remarks in here. CFS-3 stutters?
- So does FB, and the patch made it worse. CFS-3 has
- unrealistic damage effects? So does FB, but with FB
- there's no way of correcting this or anything else,
- all you can do is wait for the patch and hope
- (against all experience) that it's been fixed.
-
- And for an FB fan to criticize MS for releasing a
- product that wasn't yet finished and ready for the
- market - after the way Maddox and Ubi shamelessly
- put out a buggy, thoroughly ballocksed-up sim that
- doesn't even qualify as a beta (a gamma perhaps?) -
- is not merely ridiculous but grotesque. Talk about
- the pot calling the kettle rotund.
-
- I would also point out that Microsoft put out their
- first patch for CFS-3 four months after it was
- released....
-
Well if you haven't flown MSCFS3, then how can you even try to compare it with FB? I have both sims and MSCFS3 is an ugly dog and it sits gathering dust in the closet, along with WWIIOnline. Right after buying FB I was able to load it and play it without any problems at all. I was also able to go online and join multiplayer games without a hitch, and have a good time playing online. I will not buy another MS game untill it is out and reviewed by objective flight sim enthusiasts, and they give it a thumbs up. As far as Oleg's endevours, I trust him and look forward to any new software he develops. This guy really cares, MS does not give a hoot about us, they showed that by robbing us of hard earned cash, like a thief in the night.

michapma
07-30-2003, 10:28 PM
BJD,

I don't feel I have to apologize for the state of Forgotten Battles as it was released, but I try to explain why I consider that it was ready for the market. You call it a "buggy, thoroughly ballocksed-up sim that doesn't even qualify as a beta." I have been able to play it and enjoy it consistently since its release. My squadron switched to it as fast as we could all get copies, and no bugs have prevented any of us from using it or enjoying it on on a weekly basis. I like it better (though not every aspect) than the final patched version IL-2. I enjoy the dynamic campaigns. Its problems are minor. Yes, there are bugs, and there is room for improvement. Yes, there is a tremendous amount of complaining that goes on over it. There are many valid points, but most of it (even of the valid points) is very pointed criticism and very, very picky. I'm not saying that's bad, rather it is positive testimony. I don't see FB as unplayable, or thoroughly bollocksed up. I've been playing it and enjoying it too long to think that.

If you want to compare it to CFS3, the CFS3 stutters made it practically unplayable. After the patch and a system upgrade, it became more playable. For me FB simply has lower frame rates than I'd like, but I play it at high graphics settings and high resolution, and I haven't tweaked my computer. (As you know, you also can't validly talk about the patch making it worse, not yet.) Unrealistic damage effects? I don't know of much of anything in FB that begins to compare to the damage effects already mentioned about CFS3, although I have to admit that I don't have enough stick time in CFS3 to give a thorough comparison.

It's possible that my grudge against Mircrosoft carries over to CFS3 too much. I anticipated CFS3 for a longer period than any other sim, before I even began in the world of IL-2. It was a major let-down for me.

Microsoft did put out a patch for CFS3 four months after release. This was the first time I am aware of in the CFS series, for all I know in their entire flight-sim history. In my opinion, if they wanted to make a CFS4, they had to.

Remember that I said CFS3 isn't that bad? Well, it isn't. I like it. It's just that it doesn't compare to Forgotten Battles. In many, many aspects it doesn't compare to IL-2.

It's impossible for me to refute your opinion. This is subjective stuff and there've been plenty of fruitless arguments. I just don't see how people can say that FB is "bollocksed up."

Regards,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 10:31 PM
michapma wrote:
- OberstWiley, I think one of the reasons CFS3 might
- have been no good for you is that your system isn't
- powerful enough to handle it. Even after the patch
- you need a powerful computer with a nice graphics
- card to get it to look nice, much less play
- smoothly. It takes time to optimize the settings and
- tweak the computer for visuals and game play. 90
- minutes is too little time, in fact a week is not
- long enough to judge how it can look on your
- computer. But I don't blame you, as you know...

Van Elvis wrote: I dont think a top of the line machine would make a diferance.
My system is as follows:
Pentium(R)4 CPU 2.53GHz
1Gb of 266 DDR Ram
128Mb DDR ram NVIDIA Geforce4200Ti video card
160Gb 7200rpm hard drive with another 80Gb external for back up
Running on Windows XP with all updates.
Also has a bunch of other bells and wistles.

And CFS3 still sucks when it comes to FB
I think CFS2 was better than CFS3. It was a good Idea and I like some things about it like the ground units and some of the missions. Over all the planes suck the flight modles suck and I am mad I paid $50 buck for it. I would Be very upset that I spent $1900.00 on a new box to run it on(not a package just the computer) if it was not for IL2 FB.

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 11:22 PM
I played CFS3 for a day or two. I was amazed - MS didn't seem even to have wedged out a few quid on the competition to see what they were up against. A real lost opportunity.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 12:50 AM
I see several copies of CFS3 in the Computer Exchange second-hand games shop selling for 22 - I occasionally pick one up and consider buying it but then decide the money could be better spent on mousemats, for use as carpeting material.

Philips CDRW

Posting vacuous messages since 2002

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 12:51 AM
Alot of people seem to be ****ging off cfs3 but how many of the people ****ging it off have actualy played cfs3 on a pc where someone has taken the time to improve the game using the many great freeware addons and tweaks that are available for example the 1% aircraft at avhistory and the groundcrews excelent bf110. At least cfs3 is not stuck with the developer to improve but is open to the many skilled modders out their that will no doubt bring the game to its full potential.
Il2fB and CFS3 both have their good and bad points, i think the main complaints about CFS3 are usualy bad flight managements and crap terrain textures etc, for a start their are many quality ac out their to download eg:1% at avhistory here you have enough ac to replace just about all the stock ones and more and for scenery just High res terrain:
C:\cfs3\terrdata.zip\compositetexturebudgets.xml
<Budgets PatchPixelDim="512" from 128 to 512 turns the scenery from bland to nearly photo real at all altitudes.
Not to mention FOX s effects and RUFFDAWGS scenery mods from sim outhouse, real engine sounds etc etc. Out of the box CFS3 is a disapointment but with a bit of patience and time it can be made UBER thanks to the devotion of skilled modders that are bringing improvements all the time.
thats my opinion anyway....



Message Edited on 07/30/0311:59PM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 01:24 AM
johno__UK wrote:
- Alot of people seem to be ****ging off cfs3 but how
- many of the people ****ging it off have actualy
- played cfs3 on a pc where someone has taken the time
- to improve the game using the many great freeware
- addons and tweaks that are available for example the
- 1% aircraft at avhistory and the groundcrews
- excelent bf110. At least cfs3 is not stuck with the
- developer to improve but is open to the many skilled
- modders out their that will no doubt bring the game
- to its full potential.
- Il2fB and CFS3 both have their good and bad
- points, i think the main complaints about CFS3 are
- usualy bad flight managements and crap terrain
- textures etc, for a start their are many quality ac
- out their to download eg:1% at avhistory here you
- have enough ac to replace just about all the stock
- ones and more and for scenery just High res terrain:
-
- C:\cfs3\terrdata.zip\compositetexturebudgets.xml
- <Budgets PatchPixelDim="512" from 128 to 512 turns
- the scenery from bland to nearly photo real at all
- altitudes.
- Not to mention FOX s effects and RUFFDAWGS scenery
- mods from sim outhouse, real engine sounds etc etc.
- Out of the box CFS3 is a disapointment but with a
- bit of patience and time it can be made UBER thanks
- to the devotion of skilled modders that are bringing
- improvements all the time.
-
- thats my opinion anyway....
-
-
-

No, no one will take UBER effort for crap if he isn't crazy.
And why do we have to rely on 3rd party? The $50 was for 3rd party?
I think it's No.

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 01:51 AM
johno__UK wrote:
Alot of stuff, and then: "... with a bit of patience and time it can be made UBER thanks to the devotion of skilled modders that are bringing
improvements all the time.


Jane's WWII Fighters has had more updatez/upgradez than I can count. I now fly it quite a bit, and love it. However, it was good in it's day right out of the box. CFS3 wasn't.

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg

"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 06:21 AM
D13-th_Hamm109

>>>And why after you destroy that very nice B-17 you can fly right threw it!<<<

http://www.avhistory.org/Bear257Images/3-bf110g2a.jpg

You sure about that?

Zeke

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 07:23 AM
As a mater of fact yes I'm positive, after three month of tweaking and fiddling I had it running very nice! Just too be disappointed in the hole thing, your pick proves nothing I'm sorry too say, try blowing it apart first and than fly threw, but we all know that all ready, don't we? And before you go asking me what I know about CFS 3 there's about 1.2 gigs of stuff still on my drive! Again the problems at the core, with no on-line support and a less than immersive single player campaign, as good as third party add-on's are there's just so much they can do! No M$ screwed the pooch on this one, but hay if your having fun than enjoy but don't think it's necessary to come here to defend M$, that's there job!O and that picks not that good, look close and it proves my point!

XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 07:31 AM
I had cfs2 back in the day and use to ask the zone nazis how they felt about the coming cfs3 having things il-2 already had.
They would never answer and once messaged me telling me to shut up or i would be banned.
As for the patch be thankful Oleg and his crew even cares, back then when you complained about cfs2 all they would say is it will be fixed in the next version. Oh ok dont patch it or nothing just make folks pay 50 bucks for it. Yet il-2 and Fb are cheaper.
Even if it wasnt the support for the game is worth paying more and cfs can put out version 20 i wont be going back to them. I have no reason nor have they ever giving me one.

may you not become a dirt torpedo.

PlatinumDragon...