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cartrix
07-25-2003, 02:41 PM
Hi all,

It's Friday! Oleg Maddox has sent over a development update which you can see below. Click on the images for larger versions.

WIP. A6M5 cockpit
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A601_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A601.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A602_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A602.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A603_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A603.jpg)

Final model of Go-229 by Kevin Miller
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_2_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_2.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_3_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_3.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_4_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_4.jpg)

WIP. Cockpit of Go-229
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_00_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_00.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_01_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_01.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_02_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_02.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_03_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_03.jpg)

WIP. Ki-84 cockpit
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_I_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_I.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_II_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_II.jpg)

WIP. Flyable P-80 by Kevin Miller
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_00_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_00.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_01_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_01.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_03_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_03.jpg)

cartrix
07-25-2003, 02:41 PM
Hi all,

It's Friday! Oleg Maddox has sent over a development update which you can see below. Click on the images for larger versions.

WIP. A6M5 cockpit
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A601_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A601.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A602_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A602.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A603_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/A603.jpg)

Final model of Go-229 by Kevin Miller
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_2_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_2.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_3_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_3.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_4_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_4.jpg)

WIP. Cockpit of Go-229
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_00_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_00.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_01_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_01.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_02_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_02.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_03_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Go-229_Cockpit_03.jpg)

WIP. Ki-84 cockpit
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_I_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_I.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_II_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/Ki84CoWIP_II.jpg)

WIP. Flyable P-80 by Kevin Miller
http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_00_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_00.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_01_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_01.jpg)

http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_03_small.jpg (http://www.il2sturmovik-fr.com/the_game/screenshots/25-07-03/P-80_03.jpg)

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:42 PM
WOOT, first one /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Edit: Cool pics, had to post before viewing. I look forward to being roasted in some jap planes /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

----------------------------------------
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Stab.I/JG1Death at HL, Maj_Death at Ubi.com

At the start of WW2 the German army lacked experienced anti-aircraft gunners. The average gunner was so bad that the USSR decided to help them out. They did it by forcing some of their pilots to fly I-153 flak magnets. These planes were slow but very sturdy. This allowed German anti-aircraft gunners to get a large amount of target practice on a relatively small number of planes. Thanks to the Soviets help, by the end of the war the German anti-aircraft gunners were amoung the best in the world.
</center>

Message Edited on 07/25/03 08:44AM by Maj_Death

Message Edited on 07/25/0308:45AM by Maj_Death

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:43 PM
Looks great !
Thanks for the update. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:43 PM
Very nice /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center> Wouter
flying online as :FI:Buster82, you better watch your six/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <center><center>http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_euro_us_02.gif <center>

Message Edited on 07/30/0307:38PM by Buster82

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:45 PM
half a WOOT - second in! [edit: no I wasn't- damn you guys are fast]

That gunsight for the zero looks very purdy (mucho detail) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



Message Edited on 07/25/0302:06PM by Cold_Gambler

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:49 PM
i love it/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>

http://users.pandora.be/paco/an2.gif



</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:49 PM
S!

P80 Shooting star is going to be a great addition!!!!:0

Nice pits too!! Zero is gonna rockk!!!/i/smilies/16x16_man-tongue.gif


-------------------------------------
Luftwaffe Brasil
Força e Honra!

]http://www.erichhartmann.hpg.com.br/newbo.gif (http://www.erichhartmann.hpg.com.br/newbo.gif[/img)

LBR=Hartmann in HL

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:52 PM
Looks great
hmm will it be a China/Manchurian theatre in the future!?


<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/SigFS.jpg?0.6257472972436022 </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 02:57 PM
I lust for the Go-229.


<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:00 PM
Yawn...

More half-finished aircraft as the patch recedes into the future.

RocketDog.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:04 PM
cartrix wrote:
- WIP. A6M5 cockpit

We're getting a flyable Zero?!?!? Damn, I've got to start paying more attention to these dev updates. I had no idea this was even in the works. And just how does this fit into the eastern theater? Is there a pacific map coming?

- WIP. Cockpit of Go-229

The Flying Wing. So cool... four 30mm, baby.... BOOM. Never flew in the war though, right?

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:04 PM
I want the P-80 and Go.229, looks sweet.

AMD Athlon XP 1700+ T-Bred B
Epox 8K9AI
PC2100 512MB DDR
GeForce 4 Ti4600 128MB
Game Theater XP w/ Sony MHC-BX6AV
<center> http://invisionfree.com:54/40/30/upload/post-2-1057134794.gif </CENTER> <center><FONT COLOR="RED"> Gibbage you rock Man!</center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:07 PM
Blimey, a real update.

With stuff I've mostly seen before.

BTW, where's Fresshness now, eh?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<center><table bgcolor="black" width="400px"><tr><td>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/banner2.jpg



<center> Click here for the greeting! (http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/in-out.wav)</center>

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<font size="+1">Horrorshow!</font></center>

</td></tr></table></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:11 PM
COOL/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Hot Space

michapma
07-25-2003, 03:11 PM
I've seen it before too, but it's downright motivatin. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:14 PM
RocketDog wrote:
- Yawn...
-
- More half-finished aircraft as the patch recedes
- into the future.
-
- RocketDog.
-


As much as I agree with the essence of your post, (i.e. I'd prefer to hear more on the patch bug-fixes as opposed to add-on planes) I really think that your delivery style requires some work.

Aside from being rude and disrespectful towards the work of others (many of whom are doing this for free) it doesn't accomplish anything. I can tell you right now that the chances that anyone from 1C:Maddox/Ubi reading your post and reconsidering their priorities (whatever they may be) is really slim; esp. because of the tone.

Just my $0.02.

<hr width="400">Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, when you criticize them, you're a mile away and have their
shoes!
http://members.rogers.com/teemaz/sig.jpg (http://www.jagdgeschwader1.com)

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:16 PM
Lol, lok at the Go229!!! I wanna play with him!!!!

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:18 PM
Jetbuff wrote:
- Aside from being rude and disrespectful towards the
- work of others (many of whom are doing this for
- free) it doesn't accomplish anything. I can tell you
- right now that the chances that anyone from
- 1C:Maddox/Ubi reading your post and reconsidering
- their priorities (whatever they may be) is really
- slim; esp. because of the tone.

Well put.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:19 PM
Thanks for the update.

<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~lenazavaroni/images/tva_01a.jpg

<font size="+4">What a fox!</font></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:25 PM
http://www.dakota.net/~glatza/Siskel.jpg


<center>http://www.2001exhibit.org/science/img/sm_hal_9000_art.gif <marquee>The 9000 series is the most reliable computer ever made. No 9000 series has ever made a mistake or distorted information. We are all, by any practical definition of the word, fool-proof and incapable of error...Edited 00/00/00 00:00AM </marquee></center>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:48 PM
Il2 is not just a ww2 flight sim.. its THE ww2 flight sim.. and the only

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:52 PM
Good news, things are still progressing on two fronts!

Interesting the Zero and where it will fit in........

Love the wing, throw out the rudder pedals!

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:13 PM
Well said by Jetbuff. I get so tired of dose negativ waves!

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:16 PM
Very nice pictures and it is good see these aircraft coming to completion.

A great deal of work goes into producing and perfecting these aircraft, both from the third-party modelers and from Oleg's team. I appreciate it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:20 PM
Go-229 looks amazing. I didnt know that germans were first who started developing B2's.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:24 PM
Excellent!!
Can't wait to fly them!
Thanks for the update!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:30 PM
I never flown japanski planes on the computer before. I've seen screenie cockpit of Japanese planes on I think CFS2 and the japanese letters were upside down! It really made me laugh cause I can read japanese.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
http://www.tamiya.com/japan/products/list/48plane_img/61041.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:53 PM
Me and my friend chris (sessyman01) were discussing how great it would be to have Oleg do a pacific sim, or something like that, Microsoft did it, and it was good, but now i think it Oleg did it, with his flight models and damage modeling and campaigns, he's blow microsoft out of the water (again)

~Aaron White

"To test a man's character give him power." *Abe Lincoln*

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2003-7/264037/action-hank.gif


Special Thanks to Yojimb0 for the great sig!!

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:57 PM
hi,
question to the designers:
possible to show cockpit forward views + gunsight views (shift + F1) in the next updates ?

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 05:20 PM
I have a couple of low-priority questions about the Go-229: First, do the engines significantly obstruct the pilot's side view? It's hard to tell from the pics. Second, what are all of those little black boxes on the right side of the cockpit?


---
There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those who can count in binary, and those who can't.
(If I knew who said that first, I'd give credit here.)

HL callsign: Ctrl_Eeee, the guy you just shot down

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 05:24 PM
I can't wait to fly that P-80. That will make for fun multiplayer action against 262's.

The F4U Corsair won the war!!!

http://www.x-plane.org/users/aonyn/Screenshots/Leisure_Chair_Aerobat_reduced_square.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 05:51 PM
Cool, especially the completed Go-229 and P-80 (I like the Japanese cockpits too, I can't wait to fly in them [and get shot down in them /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ])!

Couple of questions:

1. I assume the fact that Oleg is posting screens of '46 aircraft means that there will in fact be a '46 pack? From what I know/knew the '46 is sort of an idea just hanging around in the air?

2. Japanese planes flew mostly in the Pacific/East/South Asia. Does that mean we get East Russia/China maps? That'd be pretty awesome! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Thank you Oleg for the update, can't wait for the patch. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

----------------------------------------

Cheers, computer_67

If you can't make it good, make it LOOK good. - Bill Gates, computer authority /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

Message Edited on 07/25/0309:52AM by computer_67

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 05:58 PM
Good work Gibbage! Can't wait for HoIX... and the P-80, too http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The cockpits of those Japanese fighters look nice - good to see there will be much detail. I wonder how dogfight severs will change after inclusion of Zero...

Rola

-----------------------------------
Polish Aviation Museum supports us!
http://www.muz-lotnictwa.krakow.pl

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 07:10 PM
wooot looking good /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , i cant wait to see the Go and the P80 have a few fights together /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 07:25 PM
great updates!

i think the p-80 will be superior amoung the jets, where as the me-262 will be better for prop planes because of its armament.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 07:38 PM
Woohoo! A Friday update! Please keep 'em coming. What happened to the Me163 Komet? Did it get finished?
Cheers!

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/sig5.jpg"


Then a powerful demon, a prowler through the dark,
nursed a hard grievance.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 08:21 PM
Great pics. Thanks for the update

http://www.hardrockhotel.com/rock/memorabilia/elvis.jpg


Thankya Thankya very much
Van Elvis

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:04 PM
The engines dont obstruct much from the pilots view. They are almost flush with the body beside the pilot, but the pilot does sit EXTREAMLY low in the cockpit. No real rear visibility at all.

As for the black boxes, they are circut breakers for the electronics in the aircraft. Its interesting that there were only a few for the Gotha and about 30 for the P-80. I think its because the Gotha was not complete, and most of the systems were not installed. Add at least a few more for the guns I think. You can see the rails behind the black boxes have room for plenty more. Dealing with all the data I had on the Gotha, I really felt it was a "rush job" to get things done. Originally there was no walls seperating the engine from the pilot. I put a firewall in simply because I know it would have HAD to be in. As the pilot sits, only 1 1/2 foot selerate him from the egnine.

As for the Gotha being the first B2, that total BS! Jack Northrup was developing flying wings in 1940, and it was HIS designs that they used to develop the B2, not Hortens.

Gib

DrDave242 wrote:
- I have a couple of low-priority questions about the
- Go-229: First, do the engines significantly
- obstruct the pilot's side view? It's hard to tell
- from the pics. Second, what are all of those little
- black boxes on the right side of the cockpit?
-
-
-
----
- There are 10 kinds of people in this world: those
- who can count in binary, and those who can't.
- (If I knew who said that first, I'd give credit
- here.)
-
- HL callsign: Ctrl_Eeee, the guy you just shot down
-



I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:08 PM
The Me-163 is finished. I was flying it in an early build a few months ago. Very fun aircraft! Its just to fast for its own good. Also the He-162 is finished.

Now my good friends, ponder this.

1946 addon with this.
P-80
Go-229
He-162
Me-163
1 early Soviet jet (Yak11 I think?)

That would make a nice expantion pack, dont you think? Add to that the already flyable Me-262, and you can have some real kick arse servers!!!

Dunkelgrun wrote:
- Woohoo! A Friday update! Please keep 'em coming.
- What happened to the Me163 Komet? Did it get
- finished?
- Cheers!
-


I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:10 PM
Flyable P80, flyable AM62, flyable this, flyable that...

Why all that stuff?

There are so many bugs in FB, and I'm almost sure that they won't be all fixed by the "upcoming patch".

Why is fixing serious problems given a lower priority than adding new planes?? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:29 PM
I like the look of everything. I have one question- why the P80? Surely the Gloster Meteor would have been more suitable, since it saw action during the war. Oh well. The P80 does look REALLY good, and I'm not criticising the aircraft in any way. Maybe a Gloster Meteor might be possible in the near future? I don't really want IL2 to become a jet sim, but it would be nice to have all of the WWII jet aircraft. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Thanks for the update.

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:30 PM
Gibbage wrote:

"Now my good friends, ponder this.
-
- 1946 addon with this.
- P-80
- Go-229
- He-162
- Me-163
- 1 early Soviet jet (Yak11 I think?)
-
- That would make a nice expantion pack, dont you
- think?"

Actually this would be terrible for me. A '46 themed expansion is about the ONLY one I wouldn't buy, and it would be a big marketing/sales mistake for 1c/Maddox IMHO. The "theoretical" stuff doesn't interest me, and I don't think this type of theme would sell or generate much interest. I think think a more historical type theme would do much better, but I understand this would be alot more work than just adding some planes. Still, the LW '46 type stuff has been done before with SWOTL, 3rd party stuff for other sims, and now even in BF1942 (and there was alot of disappointment when that was announced because until then BF1942 concentrated on historical battles which added to its appeal).

This is just my opinion, and I certainly appreciate the awesome work you (Gibbage) and other 3rd party modellers have done. I can't wait for the P-38! Just my thoughts, some may agree and some may disagree. I respect both opinions.

<center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Typhooncountry.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:31 PM
WoW,

i realy look forward to the the go229 - i love those "strange" ww2 planes.

also cant wait for that Zero - uve seen that pearl harbour movie ?


Il2 Fb is the best sim ever,
and it keeps on getting better....:-)



Thanks to all that peope who work on the addons

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:32 PM
I take it back! The P80 looks brilliant (especially on Gibbage's page.) Thanks- can't wait to fly this beautiful aircraft. A Gloster Meteor would be nice- but don't rush it- I can wait! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:38 PM
Me again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . I agree with you Kyrule. Keep up with the work to the P80 and any other aircraft in development- but keep it at that. It would be good to keep IL2 true to history as possible. But that doesn't mean that a Meteor wouldn't be possible /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif . I know that there has not been even a hint on the Meteor, but it would be nice and is just a suggestion. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:47 PM
When I did research on what aircraft I wanted to make, I first looked at the Meteor. I quickly found out that it was more suited as a ground pounder then a fighter. The early versions were forbidden to do acrobatics required in dogfighting, and not any faster the a prop aircraft of its day. Thats why it was kept away from front-line duity and served as ground support. This does not sound like a threat to the Me-262. The Me would rip the Meteor a new exaust port http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif P-80 was a little later, and VERY close in flying performance to the Me-262. The early P-80A did not have a large lead in performance at all over the Me-262. They were more evenly matched then people think.

As for people wanting to "keep it real", that limits the game. IL2 Sturmovic was a game about the Soviet front, Forgotten Battles is a game about WWII aircraft. Why not expand its range? I see people here talking about how much fun SWOTL was, but are iffy on a 1946 pack? Strikes me *** odd that they dont want a SWOTL remake in the IL2 engine. Well thats just my toughts. You are free to have your openions!

Gib

EDtheHead6445 wrote:
- I like the look of everything. I have one question-
- why the P80? Surely the Gloster Meteor would have
- been more suitable, since it saw action during the
- war. Oh well. The P80 does look REALLY good, and I'm
- not criticising the aircraft in any way. Maybe a
- Gloster Meteor might be possible in the near future?
- I don't really want IL2 to become a jet sim, but it
- would be nice to have all of the WWII jet aircraft.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Thanks for the update.
-
-
-
- To be able to fare well,
- To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
- That, in this world, is happiness.
--Euripides' Electra



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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:47 PM
- Now my good friends, ponder this.
-
- 1946 addon with this.
- P-80
- Go-229
- He-162
- Me-163
- 1 early Soviet jet (Yak11 I think?)

Well, the Me-163, He-162 and Me262 were on service in '44...The LW would be in disadvantage /i/smilies/16x16_man-wink.gif

For expansion packs, WW1 all the way /i/smilies/16x16_man-tongue.gif
But count me on a PCO or Med add-on anytime.

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_falco.jpg>

<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_falco.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:47 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- The Me-163 is finished. I was flying it in an early
- build a few months ago. Very fun aircraft! Its
- just to fast for its own good. Also the He-162 is
- finished.
-
- Now my good friends, ponder this.
-
- 1946 addon with this.
- P-80
- Go-229
- He-162
- Me-163
- 1 early Soviet jet (Yak11 I think?)
-
- That would make a nice expantion pack, dont you
- think? Add to that the already flyable Me-262, and
- you can have some real kick arse servers!!!

Just one Q - Forgotten Battles?????

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 09:52 PM
Well without the P-80, it puts the Allies at a disadvantage. Those 3 aircraft were in limited numbers, and thats what kept them from making any real changes in the war. Online, there is no limit to the numbers of aircraft based on resources or anything. You can have a squad of jets going up against I-153's. Thats not very realistic. Throwing in the P-80 gives something to the Allies to fight back with other then "captured" Axis jets http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Also, how goes the WWI add-on? Is Oleg much involved in it?

Besides, you cant complain about "realism" when you can die, click a button, and be reborn with a new aircraft instantly http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Thats my .02$

xanty wrote:
-
- Well, the Me-163, He-162 and Me262 were on service
- in '44...The LW would be in disadvantage /i/smilies/16x16_man-wink.gif
-



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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 10:02 PM
Just to clarify. My concern wasn't so much about "realism" as it was for the sales potential of a FB expansion. Just from reading what the community wants for the past year it seems most people here much prefer historical battles (forgotten battles), than fantasy scenerios. I just think there would be alot of people (including myself) who would not pay for a theoretical '46 jet scenerio. Its not an issue of money, but of interest. Again, to each his own.

<center>
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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 10:16 PM
Just a quick note. Comming from a marketing point of view, this forum represents a small (VERY SMALL) group of people. The "Die hard" fans. Everyone who reads and posts in this forum represends about 1% (if even that) of the market. And in that 1%, maybe 1/4 dont think that an 1946 add-on would sell. So that means .25% of the people dont think that 1946 would sell. Also remember, these forums are a concentration of devoted aircraft buffs. Typical customers would be a LOT more open to the idea. Look at the recent surge in games. Battlefield 1942's expantion pack, and Lucas Arts retake on SWOTL. Thats just scratching the surface. I saw 3 other alternate scenario WWII games at E3.
I dont mean to downplay the comunity here, but the Ubi forums does not represent the general market. Im sure something like the 1946 add-on would open IL2 to more people who thought it was just a "pure" flightsim and too complicated to have fun with. Also, if a 1946 add-on does well, then Ubi would be more open to other addons. Like Africa, Pacific, Europ, and so on.

Gib

kyrule2 wrote:
- Just to clarify. My concern wasn't so much about
- "realism" as it was for the sales potential of a FB
- expansion. Just from reading what the community
- wants for the past year it seems most people here
- much prefer historical battles (forgotten battles),
- than fantasy scenerios. I just think there would be
- alot of people (including myself) who would not pay
- for a theoretical '46 jet scenerio. Its not an issue
- of money, but of interest. Again, to each his own.
-
- <center>
http://www.brooksart.com/Typhooncountry.jpg
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 10:39 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:

-The Me-163 is finished. I was flying it in an early build a few months ago. Very fun aircraft! Its just to fast for its own good. Also -the He-162 is finished.

-Now my good friends, ponder this.

-1946 addon with this.
-P-80
-Go-229
-He-162
-Me-163
-1 early Soviet jet (Yak11 I think?)

-That would make a nice expantion pack, dont you think? Add to that the already flyable Me-262, and you can have some real kick arse servers!!!


Thanks for the info Gibbage. I'm no great jet enthusiast but I've always been fascinated by the Me163 and He162, Looking forward to those two very much.

As for expansion pack - why not? I'm more into flying the 'real' historic scenarios, but hell, there's nothing wrong with the 'what if' scenarios either. More power to you and the other modellers elbows, thanx very much.
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<CENTER>


<IMG SRC="http://www.apqa16.dsl.pipex.com/sig5.jpg"


Then a powerful demon, a prowler through the dark,
nursed a hard grievance.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 11:01 PM
I guess with the Japanese zero, we will have some Japwhiners? I can see it now......

"DAMN, THIS PLANE NEEDS A PATCH, IT FALLS APART UPON TAKING ONE SHOT!"

Good work to all modelers that made those planes!

Leben Sie heute, für morgen zu k¤mpfen

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 11:30 PM
The Zero was an awesome fighter so manuverable but weak. Gunna be sweet though, bet it can outfly half the planes in IL2, but even a crappy plane could rip its weak defense to peices

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:01 AM
How about "The Zero is porked, I cant even catch an I-16 in this thing!!!"

Dident the Zero have like an 850HP engine? It was VERY slow. The Pacific pilots used this to a GREAT advantage.

Gib

Joachim_vMayern wrote:
- I guess with the Japanese zero, we will have some
- Japwhiners? I can see it now......
-
- "DAMN, THIS PLANE NEEDS A PATCH, IT FALLS APART UPON
- TAKING ONE SHOT!"
-
- Good work to all modelers that made those planes!
-
- Leben Sie heute, für morgen zu k¤mpfen



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:16 AM
Thanks for the update, My saturdays always
seem so empty without em.
.........~S~........

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:18 AM
Firstly, thanks for the update, it looks really interesting and I cant wait to get my hands on those planes (especially the Japanese ones: Zero and Ki-84). I'd like to thank all 3rd Party modelers who are involved in brining these and many other aircraft alive, you really do work tirelessly to make this sim even greater by the addition of more and more planes (not so subtle hint: Lancaster bomber, Spitfire, lol?).

In rergards to Gibbage's "'46 addon", personally I would really enjoy flying the Komet and the He 162, however it will also be fun to give the Horten a try. Just one question Gibbage, are you moddeling a WWII build of the P-80 or one from later on, I seem to remeber you writing about using a WWII development paint scheme but Im not sure.

Regards,
luftwafe_109

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:20 AM
FB is becoming a CFS3 clone now with this planes? Focus on important things like flyable Bf 110, Pe 2 etc, not such weird 1946-stuff !!!

++ 88.IAP_Manuc ++

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:30 AM
"I'm free to do whatever, whatever I want.."

Gib: I was pulling your leg about disadvantage. that has been more than explained and discused. Just that I thought it funnt to talk about a '46 pack including 3 planes that are from '44...



<img src=http://www.silence.plus.com/xanty/stuff/fb_falco.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:37 AM
Cool update, and thanx for the posts Gibbage.

I also dont think a 46 ad on would sell well by itself.But I think it would be a very sweet part of a package. And if it is, I would buy it.Otherwise it would have to include more planes...like the IL10 and B29...and the Arado Blitz...

I am very exited about the upcoming Japanese element, but I still feel that a very important forgotten battle, especially in the case of soviet pilots, is remaining forgotten.The Spanish civil war.I think this would make an excellent first campaign for sov pilots, and Luftwaffe as well(although I expect it will be a while before we see the Polish invasion,the blitzkrieg and the BOB in IL2).
What would give me hope would be to hear how(or if) development of a BF109B is going?Any takers?I think I'll pop over to IL2Center and have a look just now.

What I am really looking forward to right now (After reading that thread)is this upcoming patch!GIMME!GIMME!GIMME!!!

But once again thanx for the pictures.

And lastly here is a question for the PoliticallyCorrect folks to chew over so long.If ever there is a pacific version and the B29 becomes flyable, will the A-bomb be available as a loadout or will that have to be part of a future version of IL2STAB?For that matter, should a 46 add on have nuclear weapons perhaps? Especially on the US side.I think it ww2 was still raging in Europe in 46 old Harry would have maybe popped one into Berlin?Anyway, I am busy with a model of the Enola Gay and reading up on the history ,and was thinking what it would be like to fly such a mission.

..it would sure be something wouldnt it...

<center> ================================================== ========================= </center>
<center>http://www.triplane.net/cyak2.jpg </center>

S!Cirx

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:43 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- The Me-163 is finished. I was flying it in an early
- build a few months ago. Very fun aircraft! Its
- just to fast for its own good.


Excellent!!! Another easy target for the Ami's Pony!!

(Just Kidding!)
http://imagehost.vendio.com/preview/wi/wileycoyote2/Me163.gif


<center>Wiley</center><center><font color="#FF0000";font size="3pt">Click HERE to visit Wiley'sWWIIGunCameraWorld (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/oberstguncam/Frameset/)</center>
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:28 AM
good work..........

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:41 AM
Im modeling the P-80A. The two in Italy were XP-80's (Or YP's?) but VERY close to the P-80A. The P-80A was rolling off the assembly line in October of 1944 and were waiting for the trials to be complete before entering into service. There were two squads being trained in the states on the P-80 to enter service. The war ended before they got to Europ. It was VERY close. The P-80 can be considerd a late 1944/early 1945 aircraft.

As for the paint, Snorri and I are doing two paint jobs. A bare metal and the glossy grey. The grey is more historic to the 1944/45 time perioud.

Gib

Luftwaffe_109 wrote:
-
- In rergards to Gibbage's "'46 addon", personally I
- would really enjoy flying the Komet and the He 162,
- however it will also be fun to give the Horten a
- try. Just one question Gibbage, are you moddeling a
- WWII build of the P-80 or one from later on, I seem
- to remeber you writing about using a WWII
- development paint scheme but Im not sure.
-
-
- Regards,
- luftwafe_109
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:12 AM
The Gotha 229 (or Ho 229 if you prefer) did indeed fly. A prototype flew, I think in late `45.

As for the B2 being based on American designs and 'not at all on German ones'... uh yea. And why pray tell did it take the Americans - what - 50 years to bring out *their* flying wing... . Of course the Gotha inspired the B2. How could it not?

Regarding near-future plans for IL-2, I am completely in favour of an expansion or a 'mode' wherein we get to fly these advanced WWII planes: this game is as close to actually flying the real stuff as many of us will ever get. It is a unique experience to do so. That alone makes craft such as the Gotha terribly interesting... has anybody ever wondered how such a craft handles in tight turns? Rolls? Much like the 262, how does it *feel* in the air? Wings of an angel? How does it sound; does a bassy rumble reverberate throughout the cokpit, situated as it is between the jets? Does the Gotha 229 suffer from the same "watch those Jumos" problem the 262 did? Just taking such a craft up for a spin is the supreme appeal to me. Indeed I would argue the answering of such questions is the very reason a majority of us bought IL-2 in the first place - these are historical sensations that thanks to the marvel of technology can be shared with others. Thats a wonderful thing.

I wonder if any Gotha 229 test pilots are in any way contributing to its development.

And then you`ve got the great Do-335 Zerstorer Pfeil... .

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 02:23 AM
Those models look great but the P-80 was never in the war.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:01 AM
For those who are wondering where the Zero fits in to FB, or if a Pacific Map is comming.
At the Link below you will see how the Pacific is already being re created in FB, with out any new maps.

Link,
http://www.geocities.com/blackwulf1_2000/kg55.html

We are waiting only on the Zero now to complete the Missions

S!

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 03:40 AM
Such marvelous aircraft developed by the German Aircraft Reseach Program (GARP) makes us wounder what they would have come up with had the war lasted another three or four years. Fortunatly for us that was not the case. Fortunatly for the world that was not the case. Thank God.

-Gerd_Schopfel 07/25/2003

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:55 AM
UGH! THis is such crud! Do you REALLY believe that tripe? Do some research. XB-35 and YB-35. The B-2 was based on Jack Northrups 1939 design for a long range fling wing bomber. Jack Northrup had a powered flying wing in the sky 5 years before Horten. Jeez.

Gib

WarlokLord wrote:
- As for the B2 being based on American designs and
- 'not at all on German ones'... uh yea. And why pray
- tell did it take the Americans - what - 50 years to
- bring out *their* flying wing... . Of course the
- Gotha inspired the B2. How could it not?
-

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:08 AM
I would just like to point out that the Gotha used ideas that had been developed in America decades before.

Indeed most German aviation technology was based on pioneering work done by Wilbur and Orville Wright. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

-------------------------------------

In the struggle for labour resources the (German) air ministry was at a considerable disadvantage politically, since labour recruitment and allocation was controlled by agencies directly linked to the army, and unsympathetic to Luftwaffe demands. During 1942 the number of workers allocated rose hardly at all despite the large numbers drafted in from Europe. Over the whole period the army continued to recruit skilled workers even in the protected factories. In all the aircraft factories an average of between 45 and 50 per cent of the workforce was composed of foreign labour by the end of the war.

Professor Richard Overy, The Air War 1939-45

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:41 AM
One thing I'd like to add. During development of the B-2, the designers visited the Gerber facility at the NASM in Washington. The Horten did have some influence in the B-2.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:50 AM
One thing I would like to add is that the B-2 developers visited Australia. Clearly many ideas from the boomerang were incorporated into the final design.

Regards,

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 10:17 AM
Probably yes, but again its fair to say the Wright Flyer had influence on Gurman aircraft.

Gib

HUGHJ_AFJ wrote:
- One thing I'd like to add. During development of the
- B-2, the designers visited the Gerber facility at
- the NASM in Washington. The Horten did have some
- influence in the B-2.
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:54 PM
Nice to have friday updates again. Sweet! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center>

http://www.webforum.nu/member/Fornixx/190.JPG</p>
<center>

I'm not scared of dying, I just don't want to</p>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 01:55 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_01.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 05:35 PM
Gibb Im sorry that started this thing about germans developing B2's/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I did it on purpose cause I new that there will be one mighty american who start saying oposite/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif And you are not right Gibb. Watch wings discovery chanell. Germans were flying wings before Adolf came in to power.
US wing was very unstable before they start using computers. Thats what they said on wings discovery chanel/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 06:21 PM
Not that I agree with arguments like this cluttering up the friday update thread.. *ahem*

Walter and Reimar Horten were pioneers of the tailless all-wing aircraft, and built a succession of beautifully graceful sailplanes with outstanding performance in 1936-40, followed by examples with two pusher engines. Their practical experience in building flying wing aircraft was at that time UNIQUE IN THE WORLD.

During the war they came close to producing the Gotha 229 but Allied forces captured the factory before development of the prototype could be completed.

Although Northrop's XP35 racked up some air hours.. (more than the prototype Gotha 229) it was considered obselete with the emergence of jet power and never saw large scale production..

So.. with regard to; who gets the 'first to come up with the flying wing concept' trophy.. aka 'biggest influence on the B2' trophy..

The Hortens appear to be more deserving of the title.. as they were producing flying wing aircraft (in some form) while Northrop was still developing the concept..

^^^ coutesy of short google search /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





Message Edited on 07/26/0305:23PM by nixon-fiend

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 07:28 PM
Northrop first wing plane was the N-1M and it flew first time in 1940. then the N-9M was built by late 1942. However this airplanes had vertical stabilizers and were NOT "all-wing" airplanes. By 1946 Northrop developed the XB35 Flying Wing (with no vertical stabalizer finally!!)and it had 4 piston engines (Not Jet engines like the Go229). That same year 46 the pistons engines were replaced by Alisson Jet Engines (i think) and it was called the XB49 but this time it required 8 Jet Engines(lol)to get the ship airborne. Then in 1947 came the YB49 with 8 jet engines too and in 1950 the YRB-49A which had 4 jet engines in the wings and 2 other engines in pods below the wings.

Now let me tell you a good "crud" about my dawgs Reimar and Walter Horten. These dudes were making boomerang like wing back in 1927. Those wings were called Nurflugels(sorry for the spelling) and had no vertical stabilizer unlike the americans N-1Ms and N-9Ms. by 1931 they built the glider Horten I. During the 30's they developed a few powered Hortens which flew successfuly. Horten II, III, etc.

Then in 1943 they started trying Jet Engines.
Thats when they did the IXV-1,V-2 and in 1944 they moved to theGothaer Waggonfabrik due to Allied bombing raids and thats where they developed the Go229,HoX,HoXI,II,III,etc...

So, as you can see the first true ALL-WING (No vertical stabilizer) was done by them Germans. We gotta accept the fact that German aviation was the creme de la cream. The Go229 flew with pure physics and aerodynamics not like the American B-2 that needs like +200 computer processors just to get airborne lol. And yes WarlokLord, the B2 was inspired by the Go229.


Gibbage1 wrote:
- UGH! THis is such crud! Do you REALLY believe that
- tripe? Do some research. XB-35 and YB-35. The B-2
- was based on Jack Northrups 1939 design for a long
- range fling wing bomber. Jack Northrup had a
- powered flying wing in the sky 5 years before
- Horten. Jeez.
-
- Gib
-
- WarlokLord wrote:
-- As for the B2 being based on American designs and
-- 'not at all on German ones'... uh yea. And why pray
-- tell did it take the Americans - what - 50 years to
-- bring out *their* flying wing... . Of course the
-- Gotha inspired the B2. How could it not?
--
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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:29 PM
Funny how everyone complained about adding the Jap planes to the Eastern Front war.

Well seems we will be leaving the WWII years and into the jet age.

May you not become a dirt torpedo.

PlatinumDragon...

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 08:55 PM
Gibbage wrote:
- As for people wanting to "keep it real", that limits
- the game. IL2 Sturmovic was a game about the Soviet
- front, Forgotten Battles is a game about WWII
- aircraft. Why not expand its range? I see people
- here talking about how much fun SWOTL was, but are
- iffy on a 1946 pack? Strikes me *** odd that they
- dont want a SWOTL remake in the IL2 engine. Well
- thats just my toughts. You are free to have your
- opinions!
I agree that a 1946 expansion would help to expand the game. I guess it could involve several theoretical scenarios (maybe with the Germans getting the A-bomb!) Remember, this would be theoretical and who knows what could have happened in 1946 if the war had gone on. Although a Pacific theater would be nice, I would not want it to take priority over other projects. It would involve a lot of work (including a carrier system.) We can already play Combat Flight Sim 2- even if its not nearly as good as IL2. Perhaps if some of the other planes already on IL2 would be made flyable, more ambitious projects could be developed later. BTW Gibbage, I think youre doing a great job- truly commendable. Keep up the good work! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

To be able to fare well,
To avoid the frustration of misfortune,
That, in this world, is happiness.
-Euripides' Electra

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 09:40 PM
mr gibbage, thanks for your work. i do really give a damn if one plane doesnt belong in that sim or not. the more the better, i just love planes. so keep em coming.

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 11:34 PM
Pernil wrote:
- Northrop first wing plane was the N-1M and it flew
- first time in 1940. then the N-9M was built by late
- 1942. However this airplanes had vertical
- stabilizers and were NOT "all-wing" airplanes.

http://www.mucheswarbirds.com/N9MB2.jpg


I dont see any tail surfaces on the N9M

http://www2s.biglobe.ne.jp/~FlyWing/image/N-1m_04.jpg


Here is the N1M. No tail surfaces.

These two pics prove that you really dont know the history of Northrups flying wings. They NEVER had a tail surface. Northrup was TOTALLY against it. Only the B-49 had them.

- 1946 Northrop developed the XB35 Flying Wing (with
- no vertical stabalizer finally!!)and it had 4 piston
- engines (Not Jet engines like the Go229). That same
- year 46 the pistons engines were replaced by Alisson
- Jet Engines (i think) and it was called the XB49 but
- this time it required 8 Jet Engines(lol)to get the
- ship airborne. Then in 1947 came the YB49 with 8 jet
- engines too and in 1950 the YRB-49A which had 4 jet
- engines in the wings and 2 other engines in pods
- below the wings.

The XB-35 was developed in 1941, not 1946. The N9 series were scaled down flying prototypes. An order for 13 YB-35 service test aircraft was placed in September 1942 and another order for 200 production B-35Bs was placed in June 1943. Due to problems with the props, the first flight took place in 1946. So much for your "developed in 1946". Again, this proved you dont know anything about Northrups flying wings.

Gib

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:17 AM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- When I did research on what aircraft I wanted to
- make, I first looked at the Meteor. I quickly found
- out that it was more suited as a ground pounder then
- a fighter. The early versions were forbidden to do
- acrobatics required in dogfighting, and not any
- faster the a prop aircraft of its day. Thats why it
- was kept away from front-line duity and served as
- ground support. This does not sound like a threat
- to the Me-262. The Me would rip the Meteor a new
- exaust port /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif P-80 was a little later, and VERY
- close in flying performance to the Me-262. The
- early P-80A did not have a large lead in performance
- at all over the Me-262. They were more evenly
- matched then people think.
-

As you seem to be the main force behind jets in FB I figure you can answer this one Gibbage. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Did you look at possibly doing the Vampire? It lasted a lot longer than the Meteor. Or would you/did you consider that not to be a dogfighter? The Mk.6 did 548 mph compared to the P-80's 558 mph and the 262's 540 mph. What about the Messerschmitt P.1101 (which became the Bell X.5)?

And what is so wrong about ground attack jets? The Germans had them (Ar 234, Hs 132)?

Just wondering as it would qualify for a '46 add-on given as the Vampire first flew in Sept 43, and entered service in 1946.

And about the Meteor I seem to recall they were used for catching V1's. With the Fi-103/V1 under development that would be a logical set for a Western map.

Just wondering. If '46 is to be a set it would be nice for the RAF to have it's own jets in there. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers

----------------------------------------

Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 12:21 AM
I did research the Vamp also. Early version were extreamly underpowered and not combat ready by any means. Not till 1947-48 did it realy come into its own as a good jet. Same with the Meteor. They were flying in mid-late war, but it really was not a good aircraft till after the war. The P-80 started out as a good aircraft.

Gib

Owl_NZ wrote:
-
- As you seem to be the main force behind jets in FB I
- figure you can answer this one Gibbage. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
-
- Did you look at possibly doing the Vampire? It
- lasted a lot longer than the Meteor. Or would
- you/did you consider that not to be a dogfighter?
- The Mk.6 did 548 mph compared to the P-80's 558 mph
- and the 262's 540 mph. What about the Messerschmitt
- P.1101 (which became the Bell X.5)?
-
- And what is so wrong about ground attack jets? The
- Germans had them (Ar 234, Hs 132)?
-
- Just wondering as it would qualify for a '46 add-on
- given as the Vampire first flew in Sept 43, and
- entered service in 1946.
-
- And about the Meteor I seem to recall they were used
- for catching V1's. With the Fi-103/V1 under
- development that would be a logical set for a
- Western map.
-
- Just wondering. If '46 is to be a set it would be
- nice for the RAF to have it's own jets in there.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- Cheers
-
-----------------------------------------
-
- Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand
- goes all the way to the
- bone.
-
- Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir,
- what do we do ?"
- Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to
- jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a
- wide area."



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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 01:13 AM
Yeah I remember something about the early versions being a real dud, but once they got it sorted it was good.

Do the '46 things have to be Jets? If not there are:

Spiteful
Seafang
Sea Hornet
P-51H
Me-263
B7A
A7M
Ju287
He274
Kikka
J8M

Plus a lot of others.

But I'd personally prefer to see the stuff we have already made flyable before we create "what if" wars.

Thanks Gibbage. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


----------------------------------------

Beauty is only skin deep. Ugly, on the other hand goes all the way to the
bone.

Lt.Percy: "If we do happen to step on a mine, Sir, what do we do ?"
Blackadder: "Normal procedure, Lieutenant, is to jump 200 feet in the air and scatter oneself over a wide area."

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 05:35 AM
I want to fly:

He 162
Go 229
Me 163
B17

XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 09:56 AM
Pernil wrote:
- And yes WarlokLord, the B2 was
- inspired by the Go229.
-

WRONG, WRONG, WRONG!


You really should watch the way you word things, I get so fed up with this stupid argument.

Northrop, The Horton's and Alexander Lippisch, all worked on flying wings, they all had different successes at different times, and while Northrop did look at Horton's work while working on the B2, so to say it inspired it is a load of cr@p.

Now if you want to talk about a plane that was INSPIRED by another, then we should talk about this plane, the H1;
http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/h1/HUG_H1.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/h1/h2b_1oc.jpg

http://www.angelfire.com/va2/aerodrome/h1/h1_3oc.jpg


This was a true case of one plane being the inspiration for another, which plane was built because of this inspiration?

Well this one of course
http://www.warbirdsresourcegroup.org/LRG/images/fw190a-5.jpg

http://www.flugzeugwerk.net/SWBilder/FW190A4.jpg


And yes, inspired is the correct word here, Kurt Tank did not have access to any of the Daimler-Benz inlines because they were all going into the 109's, so he really only had access to the BMW radials (Which I think were Pratt and Whitney licensed copies) at the time inlines were-considered necessary for a fast plane, so being stuck with a big fat radial, he was a little unsure about it, but since Howard Hughes had won some races in the H1 (my first pictures) he decided it could be done. many of the designs for the 190 are inspired by the H1.

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XyZspineZyX
07-27-2003, 10:35 AM
Thank you for the update!

335th_GRViper
www.hellenic-sqn.gr (http://www.hellenic-sqn.gr)

http://www.hellenic-sqn.gr/Images/main/greece_small.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:48 AM
Point made re. American Northrup work. However, I still say that to surmise that the 229 had no role in the development of the B-2 is silly: the Gotha 229 flew, it worked. The Germans pulled it off, the Americans didn`t for another number of decades (assuming the jet-powered B-2 is the only such US craft).

Each accomplishment surely inspired the others (foreign) to new feats. Both ways, sure.

I do so wish to fly it.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:50 AM
Very interesting! But...quo vadis IL 2? Wasn´t this once a WW II-sim.??? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I c already tons of nubs using post-ww2-jets hunting Bf, FW, YAK and La-veterans online.


Well, will become a question of room to join anyway...


Petrus
member of the Butcher Bird Brotherhood

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:46 AM
Dude. Again, do some research. Norten had a POWERED FLYING WING in 1939!!!! They had the JET FLYING WING in 1949. They used THIS design as the basis of the B2. I dont see ANY bit of the Go-229 design in the B-2. Not one ounce. Maybe yes, they did look at the Gotha to see if they could extract some design elements, but oviously they found nothing of interest since the B-2 uses designs pioneered by NORTHRUP not HORTEN!!! The B-2 was based on the B-35/B-49, NOT the Horten. Get it correct.

Gib

WarlokLord wrote:
- Point made re. American Northrup work. However, I
- still say that to surmise that the 229 had no role
- in the development of the B-2 is silly: the Gotha
- 229 flew, it worked. The Germans pulled it off, the
- Americans didn`t for another number of decades
- (assuming the jet-powered B-2 is the only such US
- craft).
-
- Each accomplishment surely inspired the others
- (foreign) to new feats. Both ways, sure.
-
- I do so wish to fly it.
-
-



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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:47 AM
TurboCrotch wrote:

- And yes, inspired is the correct word here, Kurt
- Tank did not have access to any of the Daimler-Benz
- inlines because they were all going into the 109's,


Incorrect.


- so he really only had access to the BMW radials


Incorrect.



- (Which I think were Pratt and Whitney licensed
- copies)


Incorrect.



- at the time inlines were-considered
- necessary for a fast plane,


Incorrect.



- so being stuck with a
- big fat radial,


Incorrect.



- many of the designs for the 190 are inspired by the H1.


Probably about as many for the Go-229 were inspired for the B-2.


Time to follow your own advice:

-You really should watch the way you word things, I
- get so fed up with this stupid argument.


More wisdom:

- so to say it inspired it is a load of cr@p.

Indeed!


Would you like to guess which feature of German fighter aircraft Hap Arnold ordered US engineers to copy?

And guess which US fighter was inspired after the Americans flew the FW190?


The real load of crap is to say earlier designs from any nation do not serve as inspiration for later designs.





<center><img src= "http://www.luftwaffepics.com/LCBW4/FW190-A0-52.jpg" height=215 width=365>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 09:17 PM
Hmm, I recognize pretty much ALL of that information TurboCrotch posted as coming directly from the Discovery Wings Channel documentary on the developement and flight history of the FW190.

Specifically, I recall the mention of the lack of availability of the inline D-B inline engines. Now, they didn't technically say there wasn't access to ANY of them, but that FW190 developement was strongly driven by their short supply.

I also recall specific mention that the German school of thought at that time was that an inline engine was indeed necessary for a high speed fighter aircraft.

I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, just that your citings of 'incorrect' run directly opposed to information on a show dedicated to this plane's history.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:05 PM
I agree. The FW-190 was designed for the radial because the 109 was taking up all the inline engines. The cowel was a great way around the aerodynamics of the radial engine. The turbine in the cowel to help feel air through the tight taper was ingenious! The FW-190 was truly innovative. Weather its designs came from the H1 racer, it could be. Since I dont know of any previous radial fighters the Germans had designed. The US did piloneer the mainstream use of Radials in fighters in the early 30's till the late 40's when everyone else was inline.

Gib

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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:58 AM
Yashmak wrote:
- Hmm, I recognize pretty much ALL of that information
- TurboCrotch posted as coming directly from the
- Discovery Wings Channel documentary on the
- developement and flight history of the FW190.


How I wish I had discovery wings, maybe I should shell out the extra cash for digital cable instead of basic service.

Most of my info comes from scattered sources and since all I got for a responce was "Incorrect" with no facts, I feel no need to hunt them down.

It's well known though that most of the world at the time felt inlines gave a sleeker, more airodynamic profile, for a faster plane.

Any website will tell you that the FW190 was just supposed to be a back-up plane, and because of that it got the leftovers as far as engines went, so it was stuck with a radial.

As for the BMW being a licsensed Pratt & Whitney, well I but (I Think) there for a reason.

As for the H1 being inspiration, well sorry, but it was, it was proof to Kurt Tank that a Radial Engine could indeed be used to power a fighter with out loss of speed, and if you don't see the resemblance then you're an idiot (Not You Yashmak /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) Tank tried to make a better Cowling, but it didn't work so he just took the American style and made it Work for the 190.


OHHHH NOOOO, You mean the Germans did'nt invent Flight performance, and weren't solely responsible for any and all advances in A/C since 1914?????????? My god, the world is ending.



FW190fan wrote:
-
"Incorrect"

Thanks for including facts, I never said that earlier A/C design's from some countries don't inspire the A/C design of other countries. I said that The B2 was not inspired by the Go-229, you see the difference is that the H1 came before Tank Designed the 190, while Northrop was working on a Flying wing, and towards the B2 long before the Go-229 was born.

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XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 03:51 PM
very nice work but why not the spitfire , if i want to fly with vacuumcleaners i buy lock-on if it comes out!!!

so bring on the spitfire please!!!!

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 04:49 PM
i`m sorry to say that but Oleg and so many talented modellers are wasting their time on "hair-dryers". I have nothing against `46 pack but if it distracts you from more urgently needed a/c (like Spit), it`s a pity though.

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---------------------------------------------------------------
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-----------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
07-30-2003, 10:20 PM
#1, its not distracting Oleg. There are a few people modeling the Spitfires but they are not done yet.

#2, you will get your Spits, but again, they are not done yet.

Having an aircraft go in all depends on the modelers skill, talent, and speed. Since I was able to complete the jets I was working on faster then the Spits, Oleg will work on them. He wont sit idle waiting months for the guys to complete the Spits.

Gib

Michcich_303 wrote:
- i`m sorry to say that but Oleg and so many talented
- modellers are wasting their time on "hair-dryers". I
- have nothing against `46 pack but if it distracts
- you from more urgently needed a/c (like Spit), it`s
- a pity though.
-


I am now accepting donations to help get the PBY flyable.

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<input type="hidden" name="cmd" value="_xclick">
<input type="hidden" name="business" value="gibbage@lycos.com">
<input type="hidden" name="item_name" value="Gibbages IL2; FB PBY Catalina Fund">
<input type="hidden" name="no_note" value="1">
<input type="hidden" name="currency_code" value="USD">
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XyZspineZyX
07-31-2003, 03:14 AM
^


Message Edited on 07/31/0302:16AM by rbstr44

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 10:07 AM
When are you going to update the Squadron Directory...I've emailed you several time without getting a reply.

Thanks

S/Ldr. Ginger,
C.O. - No.601 Fighter Squadron, Auxiliary Air Force.

http://www.nzfpm.co.nz/images/small/airtoair14.jpg


The Tangmere Pilots - http://www.tangmere-pilots-raf.co.uk/

XyZspineZyX
08-03-2003, 09:18 PM
http://www.il2sturmovik.de/ss_fb_dev/02-12/Me-163_3.jpg


http://www.il2sturmovik.de/ss_fb_dev/02-12/Me-163_4.jpg



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



.

"a 30 000 pieds, personne ne vous entend faire koinkoin"

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