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WWMaxGunz
11-21-2004, 01:35 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=6391087342

Don't let the thread title throw you -- it says what can be done.
Down in the thread, Tully gives links to HOW TO CONTROL THE DOT RANGE.
Yes, the new dots ARE the same dot in dotrange of the icon controls.
No, you don't have to have icons on for it to work.
One method is even automatic.
AFAIK, mp_dotrange ==IS== a server control thing, at least for max ranges.

Thread title:
Oleg....Dots realistic ~thanks~ (keep the Dots)

Time to end the witch hunt hysteria. No one can screw your game, but with enough
pressure for "get rid of the dots" you can screw it for others who have learned to
work with what we have through use of settings. I am sure that way back when, fire
was bad juju too but some people figured it out and look what we got. Well, okay
I guess it's mixed blessings but the operative word is blessing here.

Just set the dotrange to the end of your nose that you shouldn't see past anyway
if that's how you feel and it will be all right except for the naughty people with
servers that don't agree. No loss, they would run the blasphemous icons if not the
blazing ruinous dots anyway and you really need someone to feel better than. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

ucanfly
11-21-2004, 01:44 PM
Thank you for the informative thread MaxGunz. I hope that in the future we will see more "no icon" servers as a consequence of this vast long overdue improvement.

Stanger_361st
11-21-2004, 02:06 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ucanfly:
Thank you for the informative thread MaxGunz. I hope that in the future we will see more "no icon" servers as a consequence of this vast long overdue improvement. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think this is an accurate statement. I know of one squad has decided to turn icons off because of the new dots. Our squad will start to talk about it. I play with 1600 resolution so theses new dots are going to sway me to take icons off.
I know there is a few individuals that will not budge about this issue and want the old icons back, but I think the shift might move to more full real players. And that should be a positve thing for the community.

BaldieJr
11-21-2004, 02:08 PM
Show me an example. Whats the default? Thanks.

BaldieJr
11-21-2004, 02:56 PM
Ok. Painfully easy:

mp_dotrange FOE DOT 1
mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 1

25k is max, 1k is min, and 14k is default.

With planes in the distance (QMB or some mission), try setting it to 1. The planes will completely disappear.

WWMaxGunz
11-21-2004, 02:58 PM
Default is something like 11 km.

Read the thread, especially Tully's post. Hang the default anyway! It's what gets
used that counts. He figures 7.5 to 9 would suit some. I was figuring shorter than
that, like 3.5. Beyond that, the old single pixel dots are what you get and inside
that the dots start small and grow over 750m range. Set right, and I don't know just
where that would be, the dots would just be grown to full size when the actual LOD
plane would appear so take that distance and add 750m and maybe we get gold.

SeaFireLIV
11-21-2004, 04:03 PM
Yes, for some reason, this has been universally ignored. Even Oleg mentioned it in the `dot` post, but again ignored. Perhaps too much effort for most to even consider trying....

WWMaxGunz
11-21-2004, 07:19 PM
Bump for those who can't bother looking past the 1st 12 threads.

Nothing can be done for the mentally blind who still post on the poll thread as if they
have no options. Well, nearly braindead dweebs effectively don't have a choice since
they wouldn't know if there was one.

NetDaemon
11-21-2004, 07:36 PM
Problem is these "nearly braindead dweebs" are loud enough to ruin it for us by making Oleg kill this new feature alltogether.

Let`s all lobby to get Oleg to keep the new dots and disregard the "voting/poll" thread that the naysayers already got going.

With Oleg`s latest posts about it I`m afraid he´s actually considering going back to the blindness-inducing old dots.

As always do not condemn, educate.

WWMaxGunz
11-21-2004, 07:50 PM
It's Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt at work as usual amongst those who do not
think from knowing. We get a lot of that, witness the last election.

Oleg aleady posted about dotrange control. And next week is another test.
I don't think they put the time in on this if they lean to see it go.

Snoop_Baron
11-21-2004, 09:13 PM
I don't have the game infront of me so I can't test this.

But if I set DOT to 1.0 will I be able to see the old dots at 5km or 10km or will there be no dots after 1.75km?

If there are no dots at 5 or 10 km I would recomend a slight improvement on this system.

Have two parameters instead of one:

ALT_DOT and DOT

ALT_DOT max range of new easier to see dots
DOT max range of old dots

This way you could have the new dots for closer distances and the old dots for longer ranges.

Basically I think it would be much better to have new dots up to some medium range lets say 2-4k and then the old dots up to 10-20k.

s!
Snoop

ucanfly
11-21-2004, 09:58 PM
Bump and a plea. Oleg do not consider going back to old invisidots - EVER! PLEASE!

Stiglr
11-21-2004, 11:46 PM
The dotrange argument is irrelevant, for the most part.

The problem isn't the dotrange, it's seeing the dot at ANY range before the plane itself becomes a planeshape.

I would hope the "hairshirt heros" won't all go and minimize the range to far below what you can see just so they can remain invisible and clueless, and assume everyone's wearing bifocals. That just flies in the face of observable phenomenon (or, unobservable, as the case may be).

But, I do agree that it would be nice if we don't have to have icons. I will have to check these dots out and see if they're as much of an improvement as some are saying they are.

WWMaxGunz
11-22-2004, 06:21 AM
Snoop, I believe that I'm seeing a non-dot, grey pixel when I can find it, out past
the DOT range. The DOT is the black dot with the white dot underneath that you can
only see against dark backgrounds. Setting dotrange in a ways from default does get
rid of long range warning for us "low res" users (1024x768 here and down low over
an airfield on the Oki map, I get pauses even with render at medium range).

As a server setting, dotrange should be impartial at least as to range. Once enough
people get educated then I guess the whines will get more sophisticated as well. Not
what you're fearing, Stig, but consider that high res users who may want to push the
limit should consider what low res users are seeing and vice-versa. High res does
have advantages somewhere besides the candy department.

I'm leaning towards 3km dot with my graphics. The planes get dots at that range but
they are smaller and grow until 2.25 km. Soon after I have outlines anyway when there
is convergence. Maybe I'll try tighter, I dunno.

It should be easy enough to escape a fight with that range if first you get well under
the nose or behind the seat, etc, of your pursuer. Just getting below the horizon right
in solid view within the range is not going to work if he can see you and is looking.
3 km seperation doesn't take long if you're heading in different directions! Given the
limited view angles, if that ain't enough then you ain't tryin.

Sneaking up is likewise, you ain't gonna have stealth below the horizon right to the
doorstep. That last 3 miles needs to be from somewhere behind. I haven't checked
to see what the dots do with the sun behind... at some point even with the sun behind
(it's not always DIRECTLY behind) there should be dots possible but under 1 km? It
may be beyond the sim to get all that and FR, too.

Compromise. It begins with hardware.

XyZspineZyX
11-22-2004, 08:07 AM
I don't see exactly what the problem is with icons.
What I do see though is s few people trying to tell everbody else how to fly their game.

It is enough that people have the choice....

If ya want to go and play an icon on game, great go right ahead and enjoy.
If ya don't want to play with icons on, then go right ahead as well and play with icons off and enjoy.
If in HL,for instance, there isn't a game up that suits your own particular taste, then again, there is a choice to start your own room and to be proud about it.
But don't go on like some sort of game settings nazis, telling people that icon choice should be removed from the game.
Is game fanaticism getting to be as bad as religious or polititical fanaticism?

Crikey, FCOL build a bridge and get over it.

Tully__
11-22-2004, 09:55 AM
Vagueout, this is not about icons, it's about DOTs.

I've just tested with two aircraft.

With B-25's, if you set a DOT range close, you'll get a fading out dot at ranges beyond the setting. At a setting 6.5, the dot is still just visible at 8-9 km but completely gone at 10. At 3km, you can barely see the 5km dot.

With F2M's, you simply wont see them beyond the dot setting. It would seems that large aircraft can be seen a little further than the dot setting and fighter aircraft are stopped exaclty at the DOT setting.

Dots for both classes of aircraft fade to nothing in the 75-100% part of the maximum dot range.

When setting this parameter, it also affects icons. No point having an icon visible to 6km if you can't see the dot it's attached to beyond 3km http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. I had icons on to verify that the spacings I'd set up in FMB were correct.

With this test in mind, I am more confident that a setting in the 6-9km range would suit my tastes, with a preference to about 8-9 I think at this point. This would still allow larger aircraft to be visible to around 10-11km in perfect viewing, but restrict the smaller ones to about 7-8km.

Fehler
11-22-2004, 10:18 AM
This is a little off topic, but a friend of mine dated a girl named Dorothy, Dot for short.

She was good to look at from a long distance, but not when she got close.

You could see her from further away than most girls because she was kind of big.

In all, we all got used to her, because she was nice and fun to be around.

In the end, my friend kept her.

So it's kind of like the dots in this game. They are nice and fun to have around, and hopefully, in the end we will keep them.

XyZspineZyX
11-22-2004, 02:58 PM
No Tully, sorry, my polite outburst was about settings nazis in general.

WWMaxGunz
11-22-2004, 04:30 PM
One really good use of icons (not the only one!) is in training. Recognition of
distances and gunnery or just getting used to a view change, icons with range
provides something for the mind/memory to hold onto.

Hunter82
11-22-2004, 05:03 PM
http://magnum-pc.netfirms.com/nodots.jpg

Snoop_Baron
11-22-2004, 05:55 PM
Thanks for testing things out for us Max and Tully http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think we need two parameters like I described DOT and ALT_DOT to get the kind of control over configuration that I would like to have over these new dots.

My ideal setup would be the easier to see dots up to 2k and then gradual fade to the old dots at distances beyond that. But the point would be for all of us to have the control to set things up how we like it.

Stiglr your right the issue is seeing the dot at ANY range. But the new dots while better than the old ones still have issues so I think flexible configuration is beneficial. The old dots had serious draw backs at high res and graphic card settings and the new dots have drawbacks at lower res (although I think the drawbacks they introduce are much smaller than the ones they got rid of).

Regards,
Snoop