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View Full Version : HIT THIS THREAD !! Saitek FFB HOTAS ..... would you want it?



Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 04:16 PM
Gentlemen... as some of you may know I am a huge fan of FFB and with the departure of MS from the joystick market the FFB options are limited. As some of you may also know I have been in conversations with a gentleman from Saitek.. <span class="ev_code_YELLOW">totally unofficial mind you</span> ... just kicking ideas around... No promises of anything... just talking.... and we were discussing a FFB HOTAS from Saitek and what the possibilities might hypothetically be of one day seeing that. This is his latest email to me.

<sub>Hi Barry,
Thanks for the quick turnaround.
1. Yes: I did mean the actual FFB programmed by the developers.
2. Storm of War: Thanks. let me know what you learn.
3. "Field of dreams": I get your point.
Meanwhile, my reality is that I need to make a case that X52 FFB is going to
make business sense in the foreseeable future - with evidence. No problem if
some of the evidence is based on conversations and qualitative stuff, but in the
end it has to help pay the rent. The Saitek product management style has always
been pretty open minded on that front, ready to go another step, but I am going
to need some substance to underpin my case.
Best regards,
Eric</sub>

So there it is. Now I know that these forums are a limited sample in the overall scheme of things.... but it is as good a place to begin to take the pulse of an idea as any. I will post links to this thread on several other forums just so that the results can all be kept in one place. Who knows what may copme of this.... but hey... We can dream right? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Of course I would be very interested in such a thing. I would love to see more features than what is currently in most FFB modules in the current crop of sims that support FFB. I would like to see developers implement.

Engine vibration (rumble pad technology in the pedals, throttle and the stick..)
landing gear/flap movement.. as in when touching the ground etc...
gunshake (just not in the stick.. but perhaps in the base.... )
wind turbulance
damage
ordinance release
flight/stall characteristics..

Of course much of this is modelled already... though some of it isnt.

Thats my two cents.

ploughman
05-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Hi Bear, that's really great that they're thinking about going full FFB. Why not also ask your contact to go on ebay and check out what used MSFFB sticks are going for by way of a finger in the air research, I've got one and I know there are guys here who've purchased several to make sure they're good for quite a few years yet.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

BrotherVoodoo
05-11-2007, 04:24 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif A quality FFB HOTAS? This would be the only product on the market of its kind. They would OWN the market. Business wise it makes great sense IMO.

BillyTheKid_22
05-11-2007, 04:29 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif FFB HOTAS!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Nimits
05-11-2007, 04:37 PM
If this happened, I might finally be able to convince myself to swap my modded Cougar for a Saitek HOTAS.

Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 04:39 PM
I will sticky this for @ a week... then unsticky it so as not to clog up the boards...

erco415
05-11-2007, 04:41 PM
Thanks for this BC! Like I said before, when I contacted Saitek about a ffb hotas, their reply was 'no plans to produce'. I hope they can see their way to creating a viable plan. I've used the Cyborg Evo (good stick, my son uses it now), and use their pedals (which are great), but I've held off buying a hotas because I just don't want to fly without the ffb.

Like others have said, starting with a very close look at what's right about the Sidewinder (correct ergononics, precision, sturdiness) and then adding in the usual X45/52 Saitek goodness would make for a great setup. Past that, I can't add too much to your list, BC. I would look to change the Sidewinder's modeling of control response to atmospheric turbulence, which is completly wrong, imo. I also wouldn't see any need for the throttle to have any ffb effects. Past that, what you've got there would be good. What might be nice would be a place to plug your headset in, one less cable.

Thanks again!

-FI-RULES
05-11-2007, 04:54 PM
It would be great, to get rid of the X45 stick i have standing useles beside my monitor...
Wish there could be someone who can build a full set....Stick, hotas and ruder-pedals, all with FFB.

Tbag_13
05-11-2007, 05:11 PM
As I stated at SimHQ, a long stick including ffb would be my personal favorite and if it would allow for real trimming, there would be nothing more to ask for.

triad773
05-11-2007, 05:20 PM
Bearcat - EEXCELLLENT topic! I have a Saitek Evo Force that I have learnt to like very much. I am interested in HOTAS, be sure- but the one thing that has kept me from pulling the trigger (so to speak) is that I would not relish putting out some hard earned cash only to have a manufacturer come out with a FFB version. In short, a FFB HOTAS would put that upgrade on the fast track for me.

<EDIT> Also- were there to be such an animal as FFB HOTAS produced, please make the FFB tension greater, and adjustable. Frankly the force on my Evo Force has a lot to be desired when compared to products like Saitek's R440 FFB Driving Wheel.</EDIT>

I have had my Pro Pedals for about a year I think, but some of the info I have read on these and other boards is that the Saitek pedals have adjustable tension, and although not FFB, they give some of that feeling. So that being said, were I to at some point be interested in the upgrade to Saitek pedals for station #1 on my LAN, then the only thing missing WOULD be FFB HOTAS. This older gear would go to station # 2, and I would use to fly with an occasional visiting pilot.

Great poll as well. I feel that Saitek has the capability to respond to these types of requests more readily from my experience with their company too.

Cheers

Triad

Ratsack
05-11-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
...I know there are guys here who've purchased several to make sure they're good for quite a few years yet.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Yep, and I'm not looking forward to the time that my backup finally breaks. There is a vacuum for a good FFB stick.

cheers,
Ratsack

OneMug
05-11-2007, 05:46 PM
I have read that the MS FFB sticks mimic aircraft pre-stall shudders, somewhat as in real life. I don't know how this is put into the flight model but THAT + an basic stick force adjustment would be BIG factors in my saying yes, I would buy one, probably along with Saitek rudder pedals.

OneMug

horseback
05-11-2007, 06:11 PM
A quality FFB HOTAS would be a Godsend, but I bought an X52 for guests' and my kids' use, and just fiddling with it and setting it up, I have to say that button-wise, the 'stick' portion was waaay too busy, and the throttle wasn't busy enough.

I use my right hand for guiding/aiming the aircraft and my left hand for button-clicking and (ideally) trim axis adjusting. The X-52's throttle has nice axis wheels and slider, but I want more buttons on the throttle to close the deal.

I gotta have at least three 4-way hats next to my left thumb & forefinger to complement the axes and slider(s), or I may have to stay with my non-FFB CH setup.

cheers

horseback

Chivas
05-11-2007, 06:51 PM
I think a forcefeedback hotas system would sell very well. I have the MSFFB, but its not the FF that I like so much but the adjustable stick tension that is adjustable due to the forcefeedback mechanism.

Unfortunately the stick can have all the features in the world but if its as unprecise as the early X52 it will be of no good use. I have tried the later Saitek Aviator and was very impressed, so Saitek may have fixed the issues I had with the X52. Also if the stick is longer its precision must be very good or its liablities are increased for every millimeter of length.

I also think Saitek should rework the form of their throttle and take alook at the Cougar as a fine example. With the Cougar throttle your able to wrap your hand more comfortably, and naturally around the handle with more precise control and use of buttons and rotaries.

Saitek does listen to its customers and if they built a precise hotas system with adjustable forcefeedback, and stick tension the market would be theirs.

The Saitek footpedals and toe brakes are the best on the market.

Rjel
05-11-2007, 06:58 PM
I've long been a Saitek user and would be a buyer. I've appreciated the fact that Saitek caters to lefties (please don't start the old "they don't fly that way - yada yada yada" - don't care).

I've only tried out FFB on other peoples' system. I'd like to see Saitek expand the experience with more types of feedback. Please just don't make the stick vibrate endlessly to simulate engine vibrations though. That would be far too tiring on the hands.

Divine-Wind
05-11-2007, 07:34 PM
I would be very interested if they came out with an FFB HOTAS. Like others have said, a HOTAS with force feedback would pretty much be on top of the market.
If it was sturdy enough, you can bet I'd try and get my hands on one.

Increased tension (A lot more than what's on the X52) would be very good, along with more ergonomically designed throttle. And more detailed force feedback, rather than just the generic bumps and vibrating would be great.

Dagnabit
05-11-2007, 08:24 PM
Great idea BC,
I have had a few of Saiteks products and I like them. I currently use the X-52, but I would surely consider changing to a stick that puts more feeling into the game. I would want the FFB to be easily adjustable for all settings.
I would like the FFB to model a feed back for..
When the gear locks down/up.
Various weapons feedback.
For when ones aircraft is hit by enemy fire.
Stall effects.
for touchdowns/and takeoffs.
Negative gravity engine stutters.
And what ever else I might have missed.
We need lots of buttons on the flight stick, and a I button mode changer to triple (at least)
the number of buttons, as on the X-52.
I think that Saitek would be missing a good chance to get a very significant share of the market if they dont come out with an FFB. Now is the time for it, with all the new sims coming out, as well as our old favs that already support FFB. It is mostly becoming more realistic in alot of games these days and an HOTAS FFB would give us another step forward in immersion/virtual reality. Im all for it.
Regards
Dag

Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 09:28 PM
Originally posted by -FI-RULES:
It would be great, to get rid of the X45 stick i have standing useles beside my monitor...
Wish there could be someone who can build a full set....Stick, hotas and ruder-pedals, all with FFB.

http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/my_rig_2.jpg
You can do this... use the X-45 stick as a button bay..... Note that it was off to the side.. but using the SST software which is one of Saiteks strong points IMO... I was able to use the stick as a lever for my gear... or if you really feel creative.. you can try this:
http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/X-45mod.jpg

I took the pots out of the stick and mounted them... the one on the left of the throttle is flaps (I have flaps on the rocker too.. but somtimes I want more or less than what is offered.. and I needed something to do with the pot so..... ) The other pot is used for rudder trim... and the throttle pot on the MS stick is for pitch.


My current setup after the mod:
http://star.walagata.com/w/bearcat/myrig.jpg

Note that I use a MSFFB2.. but only because it was and still is the best FFB stick out to date. Although I have a spare in my closet.. it wont last forever... and I am still in a quandry as to what I will do with the stick if I go Vista since it is no longer supported. The stick will work.. but the profiling software wont.

Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 10:02 PM
388 views...
18 replies....
38 posts in the poll....

Surely we can do better than that. Everyone who looked at this thread should have posted in it.

JMJ33
05-11-2007, 10:32 PM
If Saitek made a quality FFB HOTAS I would buy it. I really like the idea of force feedback pedals as well as stick.

Buzzsaw-
05-11-2007, 10:46 PM
Salute

I would not be interested in buying a FFB joystick.

Why not?

It's not because I dislike FFB joysticks, I have owned several.

It's because there is a better system to portray the effects of vibration etc. in an aircraft.

That is the BUTTKICKER system. (no, I do not work for the company)

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker%20Gamer_home.html

Here is a review of the system by SIMHQ:

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_107a.html

Instead of feeling the forcefeedback effects just through your hand, and in a very minor way, you feel it through the seat of your pants, as a real pilot would. If you mount your joystick on your seat, you feel it through your hand as well.

Sim Designers should be modelling future sims to take advantage of systems like BUTTKICKER.

Pre-stall shudders, buffeting, vibration from damaged parts, guns firing, and hits on the aircraft, all should be modelled.

Its time for Designers to take the whole simulation experience beyond what it is now.

Wombat_GFA
05-11-2007, 11:04 PM
Quick question.......forgive me I haven't done any research on FFB, never had a force-feedback stick, but with FFB, could you, depending on the game, use the FFB to set the tension/resistance of the joystick? This would be great since now I'm using wooden beads in the spring of my X52.

Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 11:14 PM
OK Buzz... now imagine this.. you have a Buttkicker.. (I have one...) and you not only get the engine vibes in your seat... but in your hands and feet as well. And the stall buffet too!! The thing with the BK that is a drawback is that it works off the sound.... but FFB is something that sends specific information .... with the BK.. when another plane taxis up to me.. I feel his engine too..... I shouldn't feel that over my own engine... The BK is nice,, in fact I think I posted on it in this very forum and a lot of folks got it because of that.. a few anyway.... but FFB is something different.

SithSpeeder
05-11-2007, 11:38 PM
I'd be in on that (FFB HOTAS).

* _54th_Speeder *

rnzoli
05-12-2007, 01:14 AM
i voted yes

however, i completely understand that it is difficult to get a business case put together behind it for such high-end products, because only hard-core simmers will buy it, not the average guys

i suggest saitek to consider also the still ongoing MSFFB2 sales on eBay, not bad for a product which was announced officially dead long ago... and still kicking butt in real life

now add the HOTAS set up possibility... and it will be attractive for 20 years to come http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jabout
05-12-2007, 02:21 AM
Why do people say they want increased tension?

With my MSFFB2 the tension/stiffness increases the faster the airflow over the control surfaces.

At high speed in some aircraft the tension/stiffness is really quite considerable.

Also, I've switched off the return to centre option in the Sidewinder software, the last thing you want when you're slow e.g. trying to roll level off the top of a loop is the software trying to move your stick to where it thinks it should be, return to centre is unnatural and unhelpful.

I would like FFB HOTAS, so I can have more buttons and sliders to adjust trim & pitch, and mixture, etc, etc.

What I would not like is something built for people with huge hands, if the buttons are too far apart I can't reach them instantaneously and they might as well be on a keyboard.

tcr42
05-12-2007, 03:49 AM
I'd buy one definitely - but can they move the rudder switch back to the rocker on the throttle rather than the twist stick?

erco415
05-12-2007, 05:40 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
i voted yes

however, i completely understand that it is difficult to get a business case put together behind it for such high-end products, because only hard-core simmers will buy it, not the average guys

i suggest saitek to consider also the still ongoing MSFFB2 sales on eBay, not bad for a product which was announced officially dead long ago... and still kicking butt in real life

now add the HOTAS set up possibility... and it will be attractive for 20 years to come http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Good points. The business case might not be all that bad, consider that rudder pedals aren't mainstream either, and we've got them. One more reason to hope!

Yskonyn23
05-12-2007, 06:07 AM
FFB in flightsims is something that before flying aircraft in real life I found very interesting, now however I am worried that it will only be exaggerated effects.

There's nothing realisic in having the stick wiggle and vibrate while taxing.
There nothing realistic in having the stick bump when you touchdown.

If however, game programmers (and of course stick manufacturers) can come up with realistic FFB effects (turbulence, aileron instability, forms of drag on control surfaces, damage to control surfaces) then it would be a no-brainer, but with current effects I'll pass.

Bearcat99
05-12-2007, 06:29 AM
60 replys... 723 views... c'mon people.

Ken-Ghost-King
05-12-2007, 06:49 AM
Been there done that. Got the tee shirt. I'll stick with my set up, thanks.

glynd02
05-12-2007, 06:58 AM
How about a reasonably priced USB collective for us Helo guys?

Cheers

Jabout
05-12-2007, 07:11 AM
Just ask Saitek to try a MS FFB2, a couple of minutes flying the MS FFB2 and then they'll understand.

Snodrvr
05-12-2007, 07:28 AM
Personally, I've never cared much for force feedback. However, If Saitek were to go above and beyond the usual force feedback experience, they might be able to convince me to try it whenever my current X-52 goes bad (A year and a half and no troubles yet).

Mogster1
05-12-2007, 08:32 AM
Count me in.

I've been posting at the other place about the lack of a decent FFB sticks for ages. Really I'd prefer something sturdy from CH, but if Saitek come through with an X52 FFB I'd definitely be very interested.

RAF74_Raptor
05-12-2007, 09:00 AM
HI Bear,

Yes I would be intrested if Saitek can fix the joystick spring tension if saitek could build a stick like the FFB2 stick from Microsoft they would have my support. I bought a X52 but the spring tension on it just killed me.

Rebel_Yell_21
05-12-2007, 09:24 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
60 replys... 723 views... c'mon people.

I love FFB and its interesting to me, but I think you can take that as a collective yawn.

SidCheshire
05-12-2007, 09:30 AM
I would buy one - I have never got FFB to work properly and haven't tried a FFB stick for years. I have an MS FFB stick that has a gameport connection, not a 2, and never got it to work on ME or XP so it is sat up in the loft.

I have tried to get a MSFFB 2 on EBAY but got really peed off when my bids got knocked out at the last minute - happened 4 times. Probably one of you hoarders....c'mon guys, share a little will ya.

triad773
05-12-2007, 09:45 AM
I've been watching the way this thread has progressed, and beyond personal preference of the pilot, (and perhaps my viewpoint may be overly-simplistic,) but:
- if one considers the potential market of enthusiasts for flight pedals is one element,
- another element consists of those pilots who either want, have or wish for a more immersive experience (vis-a-vis, HOTAS)
- and yet a third element who may be FFB fans, but YET to purchase HOTAS BECAUSE there is none currently yet produced (I am in this category as well)

And such a company as Saitek takes the chance of producing pedals for such enthusiasts, when clearly up until this time there has been only one player previously for it (Pro Pedals) - yet they roll the dice (from a marketing standpoint) and end up bringing to market a product that has been recognized as superior to the previous status quo,

Then by bringing to market the first, and only (as of yet) FFB HOTAS would:
- Further their image as an innovative company
- Endear them to the flight sim community (more)
- Reinforce the reputation of being responsive to their target market
- Make them the sole player for FFB HOTAS

I've written a business case or two over the years. I might imagine any such venture in a specialized market such as flight simming may be at times a gamble, but there is (IMHO) a need- or at the very least, a desire- to have this type of equipment available. Perhaps what an additional relevant question might be: what would you think would be a reasonable price for such equipment? Saitek's price points have always been competitive in my estimation. If the X-52 goes for anywhere from 99 to 109 USD, would it not be unreasonable to set the price point at say, 150 (or even 200) USD? Would people be willing to shell out for the added experience? The Thrustmaster HOTAS retails at 299 USD, but can be had for 205 USD (source: www.amazon.com) (http://www.amazon.com)). I think that Saitek could easilly offer more value for less were it FFB.

Not meaning to ramble - but the math seems to indicate (to me) that it would be a good opportunity for the company.

Regards,

Triad

Huxley_S
05-12-2007, 10:02 AM
I would say to Saitek that they should be speaking now to Oleg and Co about how Storms of War is going to support FFB. It looks likely that the SoW series is going to be, for several years to come, *the* combat sim engine. It would make a lot of sense to be in direct communication with the developer in order to achieve the best results.

Also, your poll should include those of us who had to resort to buying a second hand MS FFB2 on eBay simply because of the lack of a high quality FFB joystick on the market.

Had there have been a FFB Hotas available I would not have hesitated to buy that instead.

Oh, and another thing. What many of us would like is a USB control panel of some description. Preferably with some sliders and rotary controls for trim, prop-pitch etc etc as well as toggle switches and push buttons at an affordable price, an optional extra perhaps that sits between the throttle and stick.

rnzoli
05-12-2007, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by erco415:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
i voted yes

however, i completely understand that it is difficult to get a business case put together behind it for such high-end products, because only hard-core simmers will buy it, not the average guys

i suggest saitek to consider also the still ongoing MSFFB2 sales on eBay, not bad for a product which was announced officially dead long ago... and still kicking butt in real life

now add the HOTAS set up possibility... and it will be attractive for 20 years to come http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Good points. The business case might not be all that bad, consider that rudder pedals aren't mainstream either, and we've got them. One more reason to hope! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A few more things that came to my mind about the business case (sorry, that's because of too much RL influence on me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )


- it should be possible to buy directly from Saitek - sim fans are a few and scattered around the globe evenly, so the BC might not fly if 200 or 400 unit sale opportunites are discarded just because there are no local distributors available in many countries

- Saitek could save a lot on on shipping costs if the HOTAS is designed as a simple kit, and packed tightly - this stuff is bought by hardcore sim fans, plugging together 4-5 different pieces in 10 minutes to get the experience of a lifetime doesn't matter to them

- also, a kit concept would expand it's reach, because it would be possible to integrated into simpits. i mean builders would appreciate a lot, when they don't have to cut the stuff apart, if they need to put it into a simpit

- the kit concept might be useful for sustained add-on sales -> expansion rod to lengthen the stick, more powerful motors for FFB, various stick and throttle handles to mimic various aircraft types (wouldn't you pay a bit extra to get a handle that represents your fav aircraft? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif)

Another upside of the BC is that the hardcore simmers are loud influencers, so even if the middle range guys can't or won't buy the high-end product, they may stick with the brand which is so praised by the hardcore group. This market segment is small, and whoever makes the first move (re-entry into this area), will capture it segment for years. If not Saitek, then CH, if not CH then you can bet I will raise the capital to do this in a few years time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

rnzoli
05-12-2007, 10:14 AM
Originally posted by Yskonyn23:
If however, game programmers (and of course stick manufacturers) can come up with realistic FFB effects

Of course? This is totally up to the game programmers, nobody else. A multi-axis FFB HOTAS will act as multiple channel for FFB signal, it's only up to the game designers, how they utilize the separate FFB effect channels for the stick, pedals, seat.

So I totally agree, a prospecive manufacturer must ensure the SoW:BoW will support multiple FFB channels to separate stick and pedal forces (due to aerodinamic forces on control surfaces) and explosion, gun and turbulence effects on the seat (buttkicker). Possible customizable to a certain extent.

Sama51
05-12-2007, 10:17 AM
Count me in! The idea has always been a distant wish of mine, but now that it appears as if it could be reality, it excites me to no end!

If this standard of stick was achieved, then flight siming would likely have to sturdiest foundation of immersion of what is currently avaliable on a home pc IMHO.

Yskonyn23
05-12-2007, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yskonyn23:
If however, game programmers (and of course stick manufacturers) can come up with realistic FFB effects

Of course? This is totally up to the game programmers, nobody else. A multi-axis FFB HOTAS will act as multiple channel for FFB signal, it's only up to the game designers, how they utilize the separate FFB effect channels for the stick, pedals, seat.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, but I meant that even if the game devs have made some cool code for FFB effects, you still need a stick with (enough) FFB-motors to translate that to realistic feeling. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Bearcat99
05-12-2007, 11:49 AM
Over 1000 views..... 44 replies.... 83 hits.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

T_O_A_D
05-12-2007, 01:45 PM
Well putting it up here as a Sticky will only get it over looked to be honest.

I only found it due to someone sending it to me via MSN.

I still use my X-45 and MFFB combo and will till some other system comes along better, or I can't get this combo to work with OS or Games available.

nellip
05-12-2007, 02:51 PM
I also use the X45 for throttle and MSFFB2 for stick. I had to buy a used stick of ebay a couple of months ago when my previous one died - and it cost me £85.

If I had the option of a new Saitek FFB Hotas I would certainly have taken it!

Not sure if the market is big enough to justify the investment in software and tooling of course, but Saitek should know that themselves?

erco415
05-12-2007, 03:31 PM
About the cost, if a FFB HOTAS was anything less than $200 it would represent a tremendous value. That said, were such a stick available for purchase, I suppose that $250 wouldn't be much of a deterrant to me. After all, buying an old, used, MS FFB for $150 and up is going on all the time. Saitek ought to find out just how many used sticks have changed hands and for what as part of their research (I understand ebay will give you this info for a small fee).

Rnzoli's idea of having a 'core' ffb module that can be customised is quite good, imo. Part of why we get space age looking hardware out of Saitek must have to do with broadening the market for their products - the space sims and combat robot guys use this sort of stuff too. This would also make it easy for lefties to have their fun too. AND, it would provide a cost tier structure that might net sales and repeat sales. Don't have $250 to spend on the hotas? Buy the basic set for $150, and upgrade as finance allows - how many of us build our rigs this way?

I thought of a feature that the Aviator has that would be great for a hotas - TWO throttle levers. Picture that big wide handle on the x-52 with a split about 1/3 of the way in on the left. On twins, you could use each as a throttle (differential power!) and in the singles you could hold the throttles together or hold down a button and use the other part as mixture or whatever.

SithSpeeder
05-12-2007, 04:17 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Over 1000 views..... 44 replies.... 83 hits.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Huh? 20-to-1 views-to-replies is pretty standard for this board. Look at nearly any other thread, even popular ones. I think it's going just fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

* _54th_Speeder *

WhtBoy
05-12-2007, 04:40 PM
I would absolutely buy it. In the past few years I have purchased two sets of Saitek rigs plus pedals and convinced my old man to get one for himself. Bang for the buck it's the best thing out there. I don't like the look that much but I'm after function, not looks. As with every rig there are pros and cons but overall, it's an excellent product.

--Outlaw.

Taylortony
05-12-2007, 05:04 PM
OOOOOOOh no what have i started http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


yes i would

AFSG_Rhino
05-12-2007, 07:09 PM
I would be very interested in a FFB HOTAS. I have had no issues with the Saitek controllers I currently have(X45,X52, rudder pedals) and I would purchase again from Saitek. I suspect that a few of my squad mates would also.

Bearcat99
05-12-2007, 07:17 PM
Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Well putting it up here as a Sticky will only get it over looked to be honest.
I only found it due to someone sending it to me via MSN.
I still use my X-45 and MFFB combo and will till some other system comes along better, or I can't get this combo to work with OS or Games available.

Rgr.. Like I do.... and under the same situation... how would you recomend that I havbe posted this if not a sticky? Just curious...



Originally posted by SithSpeeder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Over 1000 views..... 44 replies.... 83 hits.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Huh? 20-to-1 views-to-replies is pretty standard for this board. Look at nearly any other thread, even popular ones. I think it's going just fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

* _54th_Speeder * </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK..., so Ill be quiet.... it still looks odd to me though considering the subject and title of the thread....


Ooops BC I tried to edit instead of quote http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

striker-85
05-12-2007, 07:39 PM
Count me in. I use a MS FFB2 so the stick would have to perform as well if not better. I had a Logitech FFB stick for awhile, the FFB was OK but the stick was very sloppy. I like that the MS stick is very fluid, no detents, and doesn't have alot of slop.

If Saitek can meet or exceed this I would be first in line to buy!

DmdSeeker
05-12-2007, 07:40 PM
How does FF feel on a twisty stick?

striker-85
05-12-2007, 07:42 PM
Originally posted by DmdSeeker:
How does FF feel on a twisty stick?

With my MS FFB2 I don't think the FFB works on the twisty portion of the stick.

I personally don't use the twisty rudder action, I prefer rudder pedals and use the Saitek pedals.

EiZ0N
05-12-2007, 08:31 PM
I'm a leftie, so it may not be suitable for me.

However, an ambidextrous FFB HOTAS (not gonna happen, I know) I would snap up in the blink of an eye.

ddpairborne59
05-12-2007, 09:54 PM
For sure I would buy as my x45 was a great buy.Good quality for the money.

BillyTheKid_22
05-12-2007, 11:24 PM
Originally posted by Buzzsaw-:
Salute

I would not be interested in buying a FFB joystick.

Why not?

It's not because I dislike FFB joysticks, I have owned several.

It's because there is a better system to portray the effects of vibration etc. in an aircraft.

That is the BUTTKICKER system. (no, I do not work for the company)

http://www.thebuttkicker.com/ButtKicker%20Gamer_home.html

Here is a review of the system by SIMHQ:

http://www.simhq.com/_technology2/technology_107a.html

Instead of feeling the forcefeedback effects just through your hand, and in a very minor way, you feel it through the seat of your pants, as a real pilot would. If you mount your joystick on your seat, you feel it through your hand as well.

Sim Designers should be modelling future sims to take advantage of systems like BUTTKICKER.

Pre-stall shudders, buffeting, vibration from damaged parts, guns firing, and hits on the aircraft, all should be modelled.

Its time for Designers to take the whole simulation experience beyond what it is now.



http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I am deaf, I have Buttkicker gamer!! I can feel and loud!! Cool!! Good work!!



http://www.letrappeur.com/chien_444.gif

Stackhouse25th
05-13-2007, 12:24 AM
wouldnt want it, throws off the aiming. best defense is the situational awareness. if i wanted a rumble pad id prefer to have one to sit on rather than vibrate my hands.

notamuppet
05-13-2007, 07:57 AM
I would buy one tomorrow if it was available http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

rnzoli
05-13-2007, 08:54 AM
Originally posted by Yskonyn23:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rnzoli:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yskonyn23:
If however, game programmers (and of course stick manufacturers) can come up with realistic FFB effects

Of course? This is totally up to the game programmers, nobody else. A multi-axis FFB HOTAS will act as multiple channel for FFB signal, it's only up to the game designers, how they utilize the separate FFB effect channels for the stick, pedals, seat.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sure, but I meant that even if the game devs have made some cool code for FFB effects, you still need a stick with (enough) FFB-motors to translate that to realistic feeling. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right about that one, but even today, you can connect 2 or 3 FFB-capable HIDs to your PC easily (imagine 1 FFB stick, 1 home-made FFB pedal, 1 Buttkicker), but it is impossible to tell IL-2 to send the speed dependent stick forces to your FFB stick and pedals, and send the turbulence and vibration to your buttkicker seat). So these days the action point is clearly on the game developers to design their software with this multi-channel FFB setup in mind...! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The multi-channel FFB HW is reality already http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mr_Blastman
05-13-2007, 08:55 AM
I honestly wouldn't buy it - I have a UBER II NXT modded Cougar and pedals and have no interest in anything less than that (that Spitfire hotas looks pretty darned cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )...

Now

If Saitek could raise the bar - and quality of their HOTAS in the FFB model AND get rid of the plasticky feel... i.e. no creaks, wiggles etc., and felt SOLID, plus incredible gimbals (to be fair, I've felt the x52 PRO and it is a step up, I thought it felt far better than the X52 stock), I would consider it.

They'd just need to raise the bar - but this would really narrow the market to the gamer with a big budget, which I know most of ya'll don't have.

rnzoli
05-13-2007, 09:03 AM
Originally posted by Stackhouse25th:
wouldnt want it, throws off the aiming. best defense is the situational awareness. if i wanted a rumble pad id prefer to have one to sit on rather than vibrate my hands.

You disgusting? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Anyway, this is a myth. FFB doesn't throw your aim from the ranges you need to fire efficiently anyway (<500m). Sure you have to grab the hold the stick steady though, but this is kinda obvious also when you make a 750 km/h dive and the stick stiffens up.

I agree though that airframe vibration should be channelled to a buttkicker, not the flight stick. But something tells me that people like you would come back and complain even in that case saying "my vibrating seat is throwing off my aim, because i can't see the steady screen sharp enough and moves my body too, so i can't hold steady on my non-FFB stick either" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If FFB is not your cup of tea, fine, we're still friends. But please refrain from trying to pee into other people's tea.

johnbn
05-13-2007, 12:04 PM
If they made a hotas to the same quality as the Sidewinder FFB then they would be onto a winner.

I would not be able to resist buying it.

MOH_MADMAN
05-13-2007, 12:51 PM
Have 5 MSFFB sticks, two w box seals still unbroken, stocked up because of you know what.

Two have already gone thru repairs to keep the life in them.

Be a while before I need new ffb sticks.

MAD

mean_mango
05-13-2007, 03:24 PM
Funny, I was just thinking this morning how nice it would be to have FFB in my CH gear! I would be interested, except that I'm fiercely loyal to CH and have seen no reason to switch. However, if Saitek were the only ones to offer FFB HOTAS, I would be desperately torn. Thing is CH is showing no sign of updating their product offering.

Beckh_3.JG51
05-13-2007, 08:48 PM
Great idea Bearcat!

Check this http://www.twitchguru.com/2007/05/10/the_death_of_the_joystick/

DDastardlySID
05-14-2007, 12:19 PM
The lack of FFB is the only reason I haven't bought an X52 Pro. Like Bearcat I currently use a combination of an X45 throttle with an MS FFB Sidewinder, although I use the older model as I prefer the layout of the buttons on the top.

When the MS stick finally kicks the bucket, I'll be buying a duplicate from ebay (unless some forward thinking company comes up with a new FFB HOTAS in the meantime).
Cheers,
DD

M_Gunz
05-14-2007, 01:08 PM
+1 to the thread

HitchHikerHSDWG
05-14-2007, 02:26 PM
Yes as I had mentioned on SimHQ I would definitely buy something like this. So long its a quality product that is'nt gimmicky.

HitchHikingFlatlander

T_O_A_D
05-14-2007, 02:47 PM
Simple Bear

You give it a Bump every time you see it getting ready to fall off the front page.

Once someone makes a reply, You as an interested, Thread propogater , and Moderator.

Goes back into thread and deletes the Bump you made, so it looks like it is staying up front due to overwhelming Interest, rather than your salemenship. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

People will see it and notice it better than a stiky, Look at how much good stuff is already stikied and how often it is answered down below, or directed too from below.

Other than that I think it's a great thread.


Originally posted by T_O_A_D:
Well putting it up here as a Sticky will only get it over looked to be honest.
I only found it due to someone sending it to me via MSN.
I still use my X-45 and MFFB combo and will till some other system comes along better, or I can't get this combo to work with OS or Games available.

Rgr.. Like I do.... and under the same situation... how would you recomend that I havbe posted this if not a sticky? Just curious...



Originally posted by SithSpeeder:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Over 1000 views..... 44 replies.... 83 hits.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif Huh? 20-to-1 views-to-replies is pretty standard for this board. Look at nearly any other thread, even popular ones. I think it's going just fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

* _54th_Speeder * </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK..., so Ill be quiet.... it still looks odd to me though considering the subject and title of the thread....

Taylortony
05-14-2007, 04:02 PM
x 45 here 3 x52's and two cougars, but one cougar should be going preeeety soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ernst_Rohr
05-14-2007, 06:45 PM
Been a Saitek customer since the X52, and I have liked the sticks and the customer service. If I had a shot at a FFB X52, I would buy it as soon as availible.

BaldieJr
05-15-2007, 05:34 AM
Tell dude I said:

Don't screw up and make a gimmicky stick. If you're going to do something, DO IT RIGHT. Make it strong. Make it sturdy. Build it like a tank and make it accurate. Make the best damned stick ever and leave out all the stupid whiz-bangs. The Saitek product offering already has plenty of newb-attractant.

Everyone understands it: when you can afford better, you buy CH. Saitek should take the leap into the high-end.

BUT....

They damned well better cut their FFB teeth on something cheap first.

JarheadEd
05-15-2007, 08:43 AM
The wife would be "WTF are you doing? You already have that monstrosity on the desk now,..whats wrong with it?" (I have an X52 now)

"Nothing,..but this one ,..vibrates"

In other words,.I would be in a lot of trouble if saitek made a FFB.

guitarman1968
05-15-2007, 11:44 AM
There is a big gap in the market that Saitek could fill with abit of thought,their x52 range is great and with the x52 pro just out they have shown they are more than capable of making top quality joysticks.Just need to make the next step to a sure fire winner.

triad773
05-16-2007, 10:58 AM
And also considering that in addition to SoW, enthusiasts who are looking forward to KotS may be willing to part with some cash to enhance their flying realism, FFB HOTAS would be the ideal.

No one as of yet has ventured into this ideal (for some). I had seen where one company had developed a driver's wheel and pedals that include a clutch pedal. Tho I like driving sims, my real enthusiasm is toward flying simulations.

It would be great at some point to have the gentleman from Saitek weigh in on this here (or at least to Bearcat privately,) and let us know how this topic is being received at Corporate.

BUG3222
05-16-2007, 02:23 PM
I also had 2 MS FFB's and now doing with a X45 my aim and control has worsened since than.

I realy wish a company could mix the good things in a worthy HOTAS.

cheers

Huxley_S
05-16-2007, 05:14 PM
They damned well better cut their FFB teeth on something cheap first.

The Microsoft FFB2 and current Logitech FFB sticks use the Touchsense technology from Immersion Corporation (not sure if Saitek do)

http://www.immersion.com/

So it isn't even necessary to develop these technologies, they already exist and can be licensed to use in new products. It's simply a question of the will to do it.

However, it is possible that Saitek may wish to go their own FFB route, using their own technologies.

Bearcat99
05-17-2007, 05:03 AM
One thing I must say about this thread... it has been pretty consistent. Basically thus far 89% of the community says they would indeed be interested while 11 says that they wouldnt...

DeerHunterUK
05-17-2007, 07:53 AM
I'd definitely be interested in a FFB HOTAS if Saitek weaved their magic and made it ambidextrous like so many of their other joysticks. I think it'd be possible to make as well. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

WilhelmVonPrang
05-17-2007, 11:11 AM
And please - an optional floor mounted version for those of us who like to get closer to the experience of virtual flight?

I'm fed up with modding sticks, although my present extended thrustmaster handles it pretty well.

Also, FFB rudder pedals?

So, three units? Stick, Throttle/Flaps/lots of uncommitted knobs und switches, Pedals.

All in time for KoTS and SoW...? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

WilliPranger

steve_v
05-17-2007, 03:47 PM
If it were a quality product, I would set aside my CH and get one.

Engadin
05-17-2007, 03:51 PM
Should it be a FFB2 'logical and updated development', count on me, of course. Ah! I want it a bit sturdy, like oldie FFB2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

erco415
05-17-2007, 04:08 PM
Originally posted by steve_v:
If it were a quality product, I would set aside my CH and get one.
Good to see you Steve, been awhile...

slipBall
05-18-2007, 04:57 AM
Count me in! it must be of high quality for me to buy it though....I was wondering about this recently, do you think SOW will introduce new feeling's in the stick, more than we feel now with IL2?

BSS_AIJO
05-18-2007, 12:16 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Saitek should do this.. No questions asked, it could be pretty dammm cool... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Of course then my brother would inherit another handme down x52 series stick..

Not that I dont like the pro, I would like it even better if it was ffb


BSS_AIJO

Urufu_Shinjiro
05-18-2007, 05:00 PM
I'll take TWO please.....

Bearcat99
05-19-2007, 07:49 AM
A tie in (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/3881017755/p/1)

MEGILE
05-19-2007, 08:00 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
388 views...
18 replies....
38 posts in the poll....

Surely we can do better than that. Everyone who looked at this thread should have posted in it.

Ok Boss.

No for me.

Had force feedback on my wheel in GTR, and switched it off http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
05-20-2007, 03:49 PM
Umm hell ya I would be interested. Did you spam this thread on everything forum imaginable BC?

sukebeboy
05-20-2007, 04:47 PM
I'd certainly be interested. I was lucky enough to win a CH HOTAS setup from the War-Clouds forum, but after playing around with it for a few weeks, I went back to my MS FFB stick. Before I'd ever used an FFB stick, I just thought it was a gimmick. Now, I can't go back. Flying without FFB feels like I'm missing a limb. The CH setup just doesn't do it for me at all.

NSAdonis85
05-20-2007, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by sukebeboy:
I'd certainly be interested. I was lucky enough to win a CH HOTAS setup from the War-Clouds forum, but after playing around with it for a few weeks, I went back to my MS FFB stick. Before I'd ever used an FFB stick, I just thought it was a gimmick. Now, I can't go back. Flying without FFB feels like I'm missing a limb. The CH setup just doesn't do it for me at all.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
I'm the same...I tried to play IL2 at a friend of mines, he's stick don't have FFB...just like sukekeboy said...like I was missing a limb.

BC, I'm all for this. I've changed/played with a dozen Saitek sticks, and absolutely love'em.

zardozid
05-21-2007, 12:01 AM
I might check it out...I have been looking for a new joystick (Hotas). The only thing that bothers me is the look of the saitek hotas... its just so "gee whiz". Now, I know some people are going to say that they use a joystick to play with and NOT look at...but every time I see one I feel my gaming enthusiasm dry up. I hear a little (nerd) voice in my head "look at all the buttons"..."look at all the LED"..."look at the future cyborg look". I want a HOTAS that looks mean or functional...or military. Something that will help me get into the game...

One question about the feel of the saitek (HOTAS) joystick... it feels very light. Is it jumpy when your on someones six trying to blast away? It seems like it might be twitchy.
P

notamuppet
05-21-2007, 09:16 AM
Any news Bearcat??

Bearcat99
05-21-2007, 10:22 PM
This is not something that is even on the boards yet.. I am just trying to let Saitek know that there is market.. however this poll didnt go so well... so we may never see it... I still think it would bean excellent idea and that Saitek has the chance to corner the JS market.. or at least raise the bar a bit...

DeerHunterUK
05-22-2007, 03:52 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
This is not something that is even on the boards yet.. I am just trying to let Saitek know that there is market.. however this poll didnt go so well... so we may never see it... I still think it would bean excellent idea and that Saitek has the chance to corner the JS market.. or at least raise the bar a bit...

Saitek (or any other joystick manufacturer for that matter) could easily tap into a previously untapped area of the HOTAS market by producing an ambidextrous HOTAS setup. The more I think about this, the easier I believe it would be to make the setup.

mbfRoy
05-22-2007, 05:21 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
388 views...
18 replies....
38 posts in the poll....

Surely we can do better than that. Everyone who looked at this thread should have posted in it.
Wops, I didn't know we had to post too.

I've been using Saitek joysticks for some time now, after being spoiled by the bad quality of the Logitech sticks. First the ST290 (never game me problems other than the dead zone increasing "slightly"), then upgraded to the Cyborg EVO for the twist grip + trottle, which has been working perfectly so far.

I'd definitely be interesting in more Saitek stuff

PS: No, unfortunately they don't pay me to write this http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Therion_Prime
05-23-2007, 05:00 AM
Yes, I'd definitely buy one IF:

- it uses Hall-effect sensors wherever possible (not just for X and Y axis like in the X52). I'm sick of Pots spiking and wearing out.
- it's sturdy/ made of heavy duty material (metal ?)
- it looks like from this world and not from outer space.
- it does not wobble like the X52/X52Pro
- it finally had an adjustable centering spring! (for non FFB use)

I own the regular X52 and now the Pro version. On the X52 the two rotaries in the throttle are already worn out (after only three months!) and suffer from heavy spiking and the throttle and the slider axis don't reach 100% anymore. Also the stick itself feels very wobbly around the deadzone.

Now I bought myself a X52Pro and I'm not very happy with it, too. The stick wobbles even more in center position, the throttle feels somehow fragile and I dare to bet that Saitek used the same crappy pots in the rotaries/trottle/slider again.

PLEASE Saitek, get rid of the pot technology from the stoneage! Hall-effect sensors are cheaper than quality pots, contact free and more precise and require no additional electronics.

With these conditions met, I'd be willing to spend quite some money on a quality product that will last MANY years.

Therion_Prime
- a not very satisfied Saitek customer

igitur70
05-23-2007, 07:52 AM
I recently bought the Saitek Evo Force BECAUSE I found no X52 with ffb. The Evo is a good stick, but I'd prefer by far to have a separate throttle with a separate trimming system. It would be nice to have the ffb on the rudder pedals and on the throttle as well, btw. Make it ambidextrous, and you've got the best affordable stick on the market.
Didn't know about the buttkicker system, but i'm interested in. Do you really feel your engine better with it?

Yellonet
05-23-2007, 01:56 PM
I like Saitek, I've got a Cyborg 3D Gold and an old Saitek gamepad.
I want an FFB stick and I want a HOTAS.
So Saitek, what are you waiting for? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bearcat99
05-24-2007, 08:39 PM
I have unstickied this thread..... so if you havent hit it..

BoCfuss
05-24-2007, 09:38 PM
I just built myself a new system(vista XP dual boot), and it does not have an gameport option, which all my other motherboards did. The point is I have been using an X45/MS FFB Pro combo for ever!!! I now only have the X45 and I can not stand it, throttle great, stick is awfull. I really need a FFB stick.

People Are Paying 120 to 350 dollars for USED MS FFB Sticks!!!!

Please Saitek make a copy of the MS FFB sticks, PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A good hotas would be tits.

Bewolf
05-24-2007, 10:53 PM
I'd give it a go at once. I have my X52 for over a year now and hardly have any age problems. Only the cables tend to be sensitive. My old Microsoft FFB2 made it to the company as secondary joystick (I love FFB, but I love all the mapable buttons on the X52 even more).

If there was a quality Saitek FFB HOTAS system under 200 bucks, a dream came true.

badatflyski
05-25-2007, 04:13 AM
count me in! love the saitek stuff! own a X45 that has the primaly fire button gone after2 years, a cyborg evo that was lenghtened for working between the legs and it worked for 2 years even if this stick was buyed as second hand on ebay(now the potos are out of calibration,center is gone, so i toke the fire button for the X45 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif) and the rudder pedals that are so much better than the CH(just because you can put the stick between your legs) and was praparing to buy a cyborg evo force for again...putting it between my legs! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif (flyng like that is so much more immersive)and a X36f(usb) ready to be modded for helicopters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

So if Saitek makes a FFB hotas and there will be a possibility to put the stick between the legs,yes!,that looks also more like a plane stick instead of a T-fighter stick and without this stupid central spring(or something simmilar but where you can control the sensibity of the spring)and a FFB rudder afterwards (otherwise too much expensive at once), yes, i'll buy it without hesitation.

notamuppet
05-25-2007, 10:21 AM
9 to 1 in favour. Bump

badatit
05-26-2007, 09:13 AM
I use an original ms sidewinder ffb (gameport version), with an x-45, ch pro pedals, and an original TIR.

I fly with ffb unticked, all I feel in flight is forces on the control surfaces. The faster I fly, the stronger the forces.

I've been entertaining the thought of purchasing all of the above from ebay, as a backup. I would definitely be intrested.
Good work Bear, and thanks. I appreciate your time, effort, and expertise.

Daiichidoku
05-26-2007, 09:35 AM
sorry if its been mentioned already, i ahvent read the thread

but if they reverse engineer the MSPP2FF, IM THERE!

fuzzychickens
05-26-2007, 11:38 AM
I'll add this. I would be interested in buying the stick if they remove the silly hand guard plastic.

Also, I prefer distinct axis on the stick a la ch fighterstick. The saitek gimbal system I find annoying. The lack of detectable centering throws me off. I guess they could address that with force feedback.

Copperhead310th
05-26-2007, 05:52 PM
i like saitek. i'd by an X-52 but they wont remove that bar from across the front. damn it, I HAVE BIG F*CKING HANDS! it's un comfortable for me. and the x-52/45 are the only afforadable otins for a hotas set up.
but with FBB i would buy one regardless.

Copperhead310th
05-26-2007, 05:53 PM
Originally posted by fuzzychickens:
I'll add this. I would be interested in buying the stick if they remove the silly hand guard plastic.

Also, I prefer distinct axis on the stick a la ch fighterstick. The saitek gimbal system I find annoying. The lack of detectable centering throws me off. I guess they could address that with force feedback.

yup see i'm not the only one. HANDGUARD HAS TO GO DAMN IT>

VMF-214_HaVoK
05-26-2007, 07:07 PM
I would love to see FFB Hotas for all the reasons already mentioned. It would be a must buy upgrade for me if Saitek were to come out with a Hotas setup like the X-52 in FFB. Also if it could some way be implemented into the pedals as well that would be terrific. Heres to a healthy future for our beloved hobby! S!

BrotherVoodoo
05-27-2007, 06:10 PM
bump, let's vote people!

hshmulik
05-29-2007, 09:05 AM
I now use both the X-52 throttle with the Pro pedals - the X-52 stick didn't even come out of the box.
If the 2 sets of FFB2 I now have both decide to pass away, I would absolutely kill to get a Saitek FFB - I can't even think about flying without FFB.

Lurch1962
05-29-2007, 05:59 PM
(YES!)

I've never tried FFB, but I currently have the full CH USB HOTAS set-up. What I desire in a simulation is immersion, which from the user interface standpoint means:

1) Not having to poke at a keyboard,
2) Life-like controls,
3) Enveloping sound,
4) Field-of-view-filling visuals.

In my quest for the fullest experience, a well thought out FFB HOTAS kit would be a must-have! And if it was to at least a certain extent modular (simpit integration, with optional switch/rotary panels), so much the better!

--Lurch--

Spinnetti
05-29-2007, 07:06 PM
I'd rather have a more professional stick with better gimbals, with a longer stick length (for use OFF the desktop).. I get tired of making my own sticks and gutting the saitek stuff for the parts!

Zoom2136
05-30-2007, 08:00 AM
I have a X52 and love it...

I'm going to buy a X52-Pro when I completly rebuild my rig for BOB later this year...

If Seitek markets a FFB HOTAS I'm buying one as soom as it hits the shelves...

Yep I would love to have developpers model the following force feedback effects :

- Dynamic forces on the control surfaces during flyght... (stick and rudder pedals)
- Gun shake
- Ordinance drop
- Atmosphiric effects

BUT I would like to be able to assigh them to different controller like we can do in the conf.ini file with multiple sticks and rudder pedals...

So we could have flight dynamic forces influencing the stick... a say gun shake, ordinance drop and atmospheric effects influence a rumble pad (on steroids) under our seat..... kind of a high end "buttkicker" but driven by FFB and not sound...

Regards

Bearcat99
05-30-2007, 04:06 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Flying_Nutcase
06-01-2007, 07:25 AM
I use a CH throttle with a MS FFB2 stick. Luv the FFB. I'd buy a good FFB HOTAS setup.

Do it Saitek, do it.

Pleeeeeazzzeeee.

Good luck in your quest Bearcat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

msalama
06-01-2007, 07:33 AM
Ahem... and where's the choice for "I'd buy it if it wasn't too expensive" if you don't mind my asking?

Yellonet
06-01-2007, 07:36 AM
mHey Saitek, you done with the new flight simmer favourite yet?

First ever FFB HOTAS.. sounds like reason enough to me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Yellonet
06-01-2007, 07:47 AM
Originally posted by msalama:
Ahem... and where's the choice for "I'd buy it if it wasn't too expensive" if you don't mind my asking? Saitek hasen't been into the ultry expensive market yet, and I don't think they plan on going there quite yet.

Anyway, this rig would likely be aimed at the enthusiast who can afford that little extra, so while it won't be extremely pricy it may very well be more than most casual gamers are willing/able to spend on a joystick+throttle.
We do want quality don't we?

notamuppet
06-01-2007, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fuzzychickens:
I'll add this. I would be interested in buying the stick if they remove the silly hand guard plastic.

Also, I prefer distinct axis on the stick a la ch fighterstick. The saitek gimbal system I find annoying. The lack of detectable centering throws me off. I guess they could address that with force feedback.

yup see i'm not the only one. HANDGUARD HAS TO GO DAMN IT> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have had a look at mine and it looks like 4 screws hold it on.

HitchHikerHSDWG
06-04-2007, 01:02 PM
You have to start somewhere. To be honest I can care less who makes it. CH?...............

Copperhead310th
06-04-2007, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by notamuppet:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fuzzychickens:
I'll add this. I would be interested in buying the stick if they remove the silly hand guard plastic.

Also, I prefer distinct axis on the stick a la ch fighterstick. The saitek gimbal system I find annoying. The lack of detectable centering throws me off. I guess they could address that with force feedback.

yup see i'm not the only one. HANDGUARD HAS TO GO DAMN IT> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have had a look at mine and it looks like 4 screws hold it on. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What X-52 or X-45?

Bearcat99
06-08-2007, 07:29 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif

GoGamer-Jason
06-08-2007, 05:24 PM
I know what Saitek has up their sleeves and I think you guys are going to like it.

Jason

BrotherVoodoo
06-08-2007, 05:44 PM
I know what Saitek has up their sleeves and I think you guys are going to like it.
Are you bound by non-disclosure or can you give us some hints? My mouth is already watering...

Aeronautico
06-09-2007, 07:51 PM
Since it would be aimed to "senior simmers" mostly, please leave out "Top Gun BS" and keep it sober, sturdy and functional! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Arms1
06-09-2007, 08:02 PM
never used the forces on my msffb2 when i had it, but absolutely loved the feel of the return to centre tension, so if it is comparable that way i would upgrade from the x52 i am currently using. would be a bad investment though considering the flight time i currently get, but still id probably pick one up.

Te_Vigo
06-09-2007, 09:45 PM
If the stick was made properly... along the lines of the (more than) excellent MS FFB2, it could well be a go'er.
I don't think anyone would want something that was half*ssed, cheap feeling and plastic looking.
It wouldn't be too hard to develop a belt/ link drive 4x motor push/ pull feedback system, that had some stamina, based into a hall effect control housing. The tricky part is in the game's relation to feedback and how it is implemented.

Codex1971
04-29-2008, 06:13 AM
Dare I think of what might be.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

I'm sorry to have to bring this OLD thread up but...


Codex1971
.....I have had many years of great flying with the X52 and I'm now looking for a FFB stick.

I know there is the Cyborg Evo FFB, but I would like to see a FFB version of the X52Pro and Rudder pro.

I recall "Bearcat99" from the IL-2 forums contacted Saitek last year about this issue and got a positive response, any news on this?



UKSupport Administrator
Hi,

Positive response? I seem to remember more that the response was that we'd taken that feedback on board and that something may come of it in future.

We're still several months away from any new product announcements for this year, but I've said several times in the past (especially around the time of Mad Catz acquiring us, when people were thinking that Saitek would disappear) that we remain completely committed to supporting flight simulation. Take from that what you will


Edit: Sorry for the double post, my fat fingers again.

Urufu_Shinjiro
04-29-2008, 01:30 PM
Well, that sounds....positive, lol. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Billy_BigBoy
05-22-2008, 04:22 AM
Alright, better late than never, but I would be interested for such a device for sure. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-22-2008, 11:23 AM
Only if they made it from better materials at higher quality standards than they use for their X52. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

WTE_Ibis
05-23-2008, 03:35 AM
Yes

Bearcat99
06-02-2009, 09:25 PM
Looks like Logitech beat them to the punch (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/gaming/pc_gaming/joysticks/devices/5855&cl=us,en?WT.ac=mb%7C5909%7C%7Chp&creative=14897%7CFlight_System_G940)

I wonder if some pencil pusher is going to be kicking himself in 6 months.. from the writeup this thing is the bee's knees...

Jabout
06-03-2009, 01:02 AM
Looks like a new classic.

GBrutus
06-03-2009, 06:11 AM
Looks like an excellent setup. Only thing is those pedals look a little too close together and I'm just in the process of modding my CH pedals for that reason. Will be interesting to see how much this costs here in the UK though I suspect I'll most likely have to get it shipped over.

Thanks for the heads up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

orville07
06-03-2009, 06:31 AM
Do Englishmen drink tea??? YE GODS, of course I'd buy it!!!! Excellent work Bear, I applaud your efforts at trying to find out where Saitek stand on this, and the signs are encouraging. Of course, from their side it must be profitable, but barring a "ridiculous" price tag, and assuming development/production costs are not exhorbitant (no reason why they should be?) I have every confidence it would be a commercial success.....no doubt.

Once again, good stuff Bear http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif , and please people, if you have any thoughts on this make them known! You are invisible otherwise, and no doubt they will be taking a look to see how their market feels about the idea.

POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

orville07
06-03-2009, 06:43 AM
Woah, just read about the G940, looks very promising....News to me! Hmmmm.....The plot thickens. Would have to find out more about it first though. I agree with GBrutus about the Rudders however, I prefer more width like the Saitek setup, and hopefully adjustable tension.

EDIT: Apparently the pedals do have adjustable tension. Its just the width I'm not keen on. Would hope there is an option to buy just the stick and throttle......Otherwise I wouldn't bother.

Urufu_Shinjiro
06-03-2009, 11:52 AM
Please note this is an old thread, several years old.

orville07
06-03-2009, 12:39 PM
Haha, yeah just noticed 2007 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif 10,000+ views is a bit of a giveaway too lol....I don't remember it though, early dementia here I come! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

Bearcat99
06-03-2009, 08:54 PM
Yeah the only reason I hit it was because of the Logitech thing... although.. Saitek has come up with some new stuff that looks pretty interesting (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/fip.htm#../images/Product/flight_fip_turnjpg.jpg).

http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/Product/flight_fip_turnjpg.jpg


Featuring a stunning 5” colour LCD screen, the Instrument Panel can display 6 of the main cockpit instrument panels from Microsoft’s Flight Simulator X. Reacting and updating in real time with events from the game, the Instrument Panel brings an extra level of realism to your flight simulation setup.

Choose between 6 different flight instruments at the touch of a button
* Altimeter
* Attitude Indicator
* Airspeed Indicator
* Compass
* Turn and Slip indicator
* Vertical Speed


I still think they blew it though with the FFB HOTAS.

CloCloZ
06-04-2009, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
Yeah the only reason I hit it was because of the Logitech thing

I hope that Logitech's newborns suggest Saitek to give us an X52 FFB version or the like, otherwise I'll really be tempted by Logitech offer when my Saitek Evo Force will die ... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif
Saitek decisions apart, it's a joy that *NEW* FFB devices are marketed.

Saburo_0
06-04-2009, 10:44 AM
I would kill for a FFB stick with plenty of buttons!!! I miss the feel of riding the stall that my old Logitech FFB gave me. I have a refurbished X-45 but use an Aviator now as I prefer the feel of it.
In a dream world the wide spaced Saitek peddles with FFB would be...well, heaven!

ElAurens
06-04-2009, 04:20 PM
A Logitech FFB HOTAS?

It will shake itself to bits in 3 months.

When I first started flying the sim I had a Saitek FFB 3D something or other. It's still around somewhere collecting dust.

I find FFB to be a hokey effect at best as it is currently implemented.

YMMV of course.

slipBall
06-04-2009, 04:39 PM
In my experience's, you don't feel much sign of trouble in the controller's...it's more a feeling in your environment or seat of your pants. I had a new red edition MSFFB that I tried and was unhappy with, fabian fred bought it from me http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Bearcat99
06-05-2009, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
I find FFB to be a hokey effect at best as it is currently implemented.


For me it is not the gun shake & stall effects.. but the stick tension where FFB shines.. No spring can do what a good FFB stick can. The spring tension will be the same if you are damaged or not.. Not so with FFB... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif