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APHill
03-04-2007, 05:09 PM
Does anyone play this game, Battle of Britain II: Wings of Victory.Is it possible to get it in the US? And if so where?
Thanks

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-04-2007, 05:24 PM
Yes its pretty good after you patch it up. You can purchase it here. http://www.amazon.com/Battle-of-Britain-2-Shockwave/dp/B0007W4LH4

SeaVee
03-04-2007, 07:26 PM
I play it all the time and also have Il2.

Both are great games but BoB2 is far better as far as an OFF-line, single player game.

The AI is truly superb and very challenging plus it has full 6DOF support for Track IR. The sounds overall are also excellent.

There have been alot of updates since first released and the 2.06 patch is going to be released imminently with even more.

You can buy it at www.shockwaveproductions.com (http://www.shockwaveproductions.com)

The forums there have a ton more info about it as well.

Here is a little YOUTUBE video I did that gives you an idea of what its like:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=TCHk9CFgE-U

96th_Nightshifter
03-04-2007, 08:34 PM
I play it too; the sound is superb but the damage model could use some work unless it has been fixed in the last 2 months. I was flying in a Spitfire and took some hits, started to feel a little rough on the controls so i have a quick glance and to my shock see that I have less than 50% of my left wing!!! I can see the major damage etc. but I can somehow still fly it with a lot of aileron work (which I only had one of at this point http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ).

Storm of War needs to have sounds like this though http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

APHill
03-04-2007, 08:49 PM
Thanks for the feedback! I ordered it tonight.

toastfrenzy
03-05-2007, 05:55 AM
http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7069&highlight=

is a link to all the good help I got when I recently bought BoBII:WoV. Only about 20 replies but all the set up info you'd want, need. Very concise and took me to a working set up straight away.

Have fun......

slipBall
03-05-2007, 07:05 AM
I just got it a few days ago, it was 16.00 from NWS. The game seems ok, but I have less than 15 minutes on it. I have been fooling around with key assig. mostly. I'm wondering if it has a "fly by view", I have not found that yet

p-11.cAce
03-05-2007, 08:28 AM
I never did get it to run on my system - even after applying the DEP workaround and patches it would still CTD from the menu screen or after a few minutes of flight. I'm sure it is a great game but I'm not the only one who encountered CTD issues.

Deedsundone
03-05-2007, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
I'm wondering if it has a "fly by view", I have not found that yet

Button F9, but that view is so crappy so you won´t use it more than once or twice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

trumper
03-05-2007, 11:22 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif It's a terrific sim,well worth adding to your h/d.
The chaps at Shockwave are 2nd to non for help and advice.
Don't compare it like for like with F/B,they are both winners http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
B o B 11 and the development team are http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Hartford688
03-05-2007, 11:40 AM
It is indeed a great offline sim.

There is a good forum going over at SimHQ..below is the link to a thread on the 2.06 patch (incoming!):

http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&...age=1&gonew=1#UNREAD (http://www.simhq.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2151111&page=1&gonew=1#UNREAD)

A lot of other good stuff on that forum for BOBII.

slipBall
03-05-2007, 12:13 PM
Originally posted by Deedsundone:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
I'm wondering if it has a "fly by view", I have not found that yet

Button F9, but that view is so crappy so you won´t use it more than once or twice http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I see what you mean, the sound's not in sinc with the grafics either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif...I did read that as they advance with Flying Tigers, they will apply to Bob as well

SeaVee
03-05-2007, 03:43 PM
[/QUOTE]

I see what you mean, the sound's not in sinc with the grafics either http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif...I did read that as they advance with Flying Tigers, they will apply to Bob as well[/QUOTE]

That is correct. There are significant changes and upgrades that will be in FT that in some form or fashion will make there way into Bob2. Included are a different external view changes. That will NOT be for 2.06 though.

p.11.Ace: Sorry you could not get your issues sorted. On the tech forums at either SimHQ or Shockwave there are now virtually no users who have on-going issues that could not be solved. In most cases it was an issue with their PC - a stale driver or incompatible video card or DX9.0C not fully updated. There are still a handful of very isolated CTDs but they are very few and far between and hard to reproduce. One beta tester, ick5393 just completed and won the RAF campaign stability test. Here were his findings:

TOTAL MISSIONS FLOWN =92
Stable =90
CTD =1
Freeze =1

TEST SYSTEM:
OS: Windows XP Home Edition (5.1, Build 2600) Service Pack 2
CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.20GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 1024MB RAM
Graphics: RADEON 9800, 128.0 MB
Monitor: LCD 17", 1280 x 1024 (32 bit) (60Hz)
Sound: SoundMAX Digital Audio
Thrustmaster Top Gun Fox 2 Pro (USB)
TrackIR 3 Pro


For 2.06 due out imminently even more CTDs have been fixed.

Here is a status update of 2.06. It is NOT a complete list as several more things have been added:

2.06 Summary

1. Fixed Collision Avoidance (CA) so that a different closure time can be used for head-on collisions (larger time as the closing is so fast) and a smaller time can be used for head to tail collisions so that the AI will not pull off as fast when shooting at an enemy's tail.
2. Fixed the damage model so that when the left and right fin/elevators, or the left or right outside wings are equal to BS_DEAD (totally damaged from a collision or gun fire) the player's A/C will not be flying home.
3. Fixed buffet sound so it turns off when player bails out or crashes.
4. Implemented different maneuvers when Skill level Novice and Poor is selected in the Instant Action missions. The AI will be less aggressive (Novice less and Poor a bit more) and the maneuvers will be less defensive (Novice less and Poor a bit more).
5. Implemented new more aggressive AI maneuvers for Ace and Hero skill levels when selected in instant Action Missions (about the same level). The goal is so the customer can see a difference in both offence and defense when different skill levels are selected.
a. Novice the lowest easiest level has very little offence mild defense.
b. Poor the offence increases slightly and defense is increased over Novice.
c. Regular and Veteran has less offense than 2.05 level and about the same defense as 2.05 level.
d. Ace and Hero offence was increased significantly with the defense about the same as Regular and Veteran. The new STAYONTAIL and SNAPSHOT maneuvers are used that will lock on to your tail and it is difficult to get away from them. When one thinks of skill many thing come to mind. This implementation considers the flying skill of the pilot to perform maneuvers and the experience/skill to recognize the situation and select the better maneuver. The customer will need to pay more attention to the default skill levels in the Instant Action Missions and select the skill levels wanted according to their personal taste and experience.
6. Implemented the new Bdg.txt parameter for a new skill level option for fighting with the Terminator AI. This level is for experts and who want the highest AI challenge. Just set Do_You_Want_To_Fight_The_Terminator_AI=ON. The terminator AI will not disengage (except when they kill an enemy) and they do not go home. It is a fight to the death for both the wingmen (friendly) and the enemy AI (unless one gets too far out of range, visible range, 8000 meters). The Terminator AI is as aggressive as Hero and Ace and may even ram you as he does not care about being killed. The Terminator has a weakness as his defense is rather normal as his focus is on offence. As the fight continues the more Terminator AI's will be assigned to target the player. The Goal of the Terminator Skill level is to challenge the player to try and survive the 12-on-12 Random Advantage Mission and be the last one standing with your wingmen's help. Good Luck.
7. Fix a Bug in the campaign when using ENGINE_ALWAYS_RUNNING=ON where the engine started then died during takeoff.
8. Fix a CTD in C:\bob\src\movecode\..\MOVECODE\Wpaction.cpp, line 649+18 byte(s). The conditions for the CTD were (1) Longer_IA_Fights=OFF (2) Auto Pilot on (3) must be flying for the LUF. It was rare but it did occur.
9. Made a fix to RequiredDRollSub and AutoCalcPitch to smooth out the Jumpy/shaky wingmen (friendly AI) when flying in formation.
10. Turned the engine sound off after you crash in the water.
11. Fixed a CTD in DetatchVapourStream by adding a check for zero pointer
12. Fix a Bug that caused the heading and pitch error which caused the A/C to not fly correctly to WP's (Thanks to Borton for sorting this one out so we could keep the jumpy wingmen fix and have this error as they were related).
13. Made the AI 110/109 guns work the following way: (1) 100% cannon less than 150 meters for ACE/HERO/Terninator and (2) 75% MG and 25% cannons greater than 150 meters but less than 500 meters (Weapons Range). This keeps the 109/110 from running out of a very limited number of cannon shots as fast for ACE/HERO/Terminator and it is more realistic IMHO.
14. If a JU87 is bounced and he is within about 9 miles of his target WP, the Ju87 will finish his assign mission rather than dumping his bombs and running home as he currently does.
15. Fixed the player's Auto Pilot so that when the left and right fin/elevators, or the left or right outside wings are equal to BS_DEAD (totally damaged from a collision or gun fire), or the player's A/C is "Dead" (label no longer displayed) then the player will be forced out of Auto Pilot and he must fly himself to his death.
16. Implemented a BDG.txt parameter AI_Targets_Player_After_HitOrMiss. When AI_Targets_Player_After_HitOrMiss=ON the AI will target the player (as the game works today) after the player has a hit or near miss on the AI A/C.When this BDG.txt parameter is set to AI_Targets_Player_After_HitOrMiss=OFF the AI will not target the player after a hit or near miss. PLEASE NOTE: with AI_Targets_Player_After_HitOrMiss=OFF the AI A/C will "not" take evasive action when shot at by the player (hit or mear miss) unless already targeted.
17. Increased the dispersion for the hand guns in the bomber to reduce the accuracy for both the AI (50% increase) and the player (200% increase) as the accuracy was considered to be like "Sniper Gunners".
18. Fixed a bug in IA only in the GoHome for move code AUTOFOLLOWWP where the speed was set to 90% max speed instantly. This messed up the speed for the training mission for formation flying. The GoHome (get out of town) speed will only use a slow increase the same as the player and will only for the 109 and 110.
19. Far Tile Generation fixed and implemented.
20. Fixed an old bug where the AI wingmen would not engage close to or over French soil.
21. Osram ask me to implement a new Bdg.txt parameter Render_Sheep_View_Radius for Pat Pattle so he could experiment with changing sheep into trees. The default is 2.
22. Added some new code from Charles for shadows but it needs some work that is planned.
23. Fixed a Winds Effect problem causing jumpy AI wingmen. No Customer change required. The wingmen appear stable to our testing eye now.
24. Fixed a bug when using the "keyboard control" (rather than joystick) that Scott identified where the DeadZones program had a bug that prevented flying.
25. Added the Shove code back for the player only and "not the AI (this had been commented out for the last year because of concerns over AI jumps/warps and odd maneuvers).
26. Added skill level check for shooting accuracy, range, and bullets.
-Novice and Poor Start shooting early 500 meters, 10% loss in accuracy
-Regular and Veteran Start shooting at 400 meters, 5% loss in accuracy
-Ace, Hero, and Terminator Start shooting at 360 meters, no loss of accuracy, and shoot twice the number of bullets.
27. Implemented Bdg.txt parameter Initial_Max_Number_AI_Targeting_Player. This parameter permits the customer to limit the number of enemy AI that can target the player during the initial engage (the PeelOff maneuver) to prevent too many enemy AI from targeting the player when the player is badly outnumbered. This problem has occurred during Beta testing in the campaign on 2.06.
28. Fixed a problem of the bullet sound continuing after the AI ran out of ammo. It was very noticable in Auto pilot when the AI was lock on for a kill. He will now immediately be set to disengaged and then set to AUTOFOLLOWWP to go home.
29.. Added back the "Too Fast" message (which was deleted in 2.05 as annoying) under the follow specific criteria. Speed is less than 200MPH and the throttle is less then 75%.
30. Worked on the PeelOff maneuvre to try and spred out the AI more to assist in preventing friendly fire issues.
31. Implemented BDG_Values.Time_In_IA_Missions_Until_LUF_Returns_H ome. The default is = 0. This permits the customer to set the time in minutes before the LUF fighters (109/110) and JU87 returm home. This was implemented as a option in IA missions so the customer that is concerned about historical RAF losses can tune the mission to his taste. Those that are not concerned about historial accuracy in IA missions can just fight on.
32. Deleted the BDG_Values.Longer_AI_Fights as #31 above replaced it.
33. Fixed a CTD in HighIntercept which was an overflow found by Spitfireace. I changed the varable name from Sword to SLong to prevent the overflow.
34. Replaced MANOEUVRE_LINEABREAST, MANOEUVRE_LINEASTERN, and MANOEUVRE_VICATTACK and replaced them with MANOEUVRE_PEELOFF. This was based on (1) the bad experiences we had in Beta Testing and (2) that the three maneuvers were not used except under very rare conditions in game play.
35. Fixed a CTD in Setengage found by Alex. This was caused by a "target" pointer of NULL. A "target" pointer of NULL is valid only for a weldedwing maneuver but the maneuver was not a weldedwing. I added defensive code to check for NULL pointers for both the "target" and "caller" to prevent the problem.
36. Fixed a bug where if you blow the canopy of the 109/110 (which is really a bad idea) you would get the "red death" effect
37. Fixed CTD in BoB2 playing engine failure mission when doing a bellylanding.
38. Fixed Novice_AI_Airspeed_Fraction Bdg paramenter so that it only takes effect when skill level is Novice or Poor or bdg.parameter AI_Novice = ON.

There may be a few GFX or other surprises that I am not at liberty to divulge further on :-)

leitmotiv
03-06-2007, 05:44 AM
What more needs to be writ?

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_030a.html

trumper
03-06-2007, 06:12 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
What more needs to be writ?

http://www.simhq.com/_commentary/all_030a.html

That seems to be a review of an older pre patched version.
There are several mods available,F/M mods,sound mods including some for the use of the Buttkicker device and some terrain mods as well.
http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6525
http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5830
Makes it even better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

leitmotiv
03-06-2007, 07:11 AM
That was SimHQ awarding BOB2 the <span class="ev_code_RED">BEST "Flight---Air Combat" simulator of 2006</span> , not a review---note: it whipped IL2 46!!!!!!

Chivas
03-06-2007, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
That was SimHQ awarding BOB2 the <span class="ev_code_RED">BEST "Flight---Air Combat" simulator of 2006</span> , not a review---note: it whipped IL2 46!!!!!!

I'm a fan of BOB WOV and think all combat flight simmers should have it on their harddrives but I was surprised that it was named CFS of 2006. It still has a few niggly issues that I find annoying that others might not even notice.
The slight warp of the AI spoils your aim just enough to delay the kill shot. This delay and the way the AI targets your aircraft puts you a very perileous position when you are highly outnumbered(which is a common occurance in BOB). Buddye has his eye http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif on this problem and knowing his tenacity, he should have this sussed in a future if not this upgrade.

The forest, towns, and cardboard cut out hedgerows definitely need addressing.

There are still a few things that need to be improved along with the DM before BOB WOV will be in the same class as FB. I'm not so sure that the Rowan engine can be stablized and improved enough to produce FT and improvements in BOB WOV to compete with BOB SOW. I hope the Shockwave team can deliver because there is nothing wrong with have more than one great combat flight sim.
Its not my intention to diss BOB WOV but just stating things that need improvement for me to really enjoy flying BOB or their future FT project.

~Salute~
Chivas

leitmotiv
03-06-2007, 12:40 PM
I think it got it for (1) 6 DOF, the lack of which makes IL-2 46 look ancient, (2) the livelier, more realistic AI (they can stall, the AI flits out of your sight immediately---no langorous free shots like the IL-2 46 AI gives players), and (3) the tremendous experience it gives players with many aircraft in play using historical formations. IL-2 46's graphics are more artistically pleasing by a wide margin.

Chivas
03-06-2007, 01:08 PM
More realistic AI. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I could list quite a few AI errors in both sims. Its got to be one of the most difficult things to program and impossibe to perfect at this time.

leitmotiv
03-06-2007, 01:33 PM
I find BOB2's AI a significantly more difficult challenge than IL-2 46's which, to me, uses absolutely predictable choreographed tactics.

Chivas
03-06-2007, 02:43 PM
Both sims use "absolutely predictable choreographed tactics" and I can copy and paste BOB WOV AI manuovers if you like. The only reason I have trouble killing WOV AI is they will warp when the AI changes from one choreographed manuover to the next. Its well ducumented at the Shockwave site for example:
FROM Auto_Combat_Manouvre_Transition
TO Auto_Combat_Manouvre_Select TO Auto_Combat_Manouvre_Breakturn etc, etc.

~Salute~
Chivas

leitmotiv
03-06-2007, 06:01 PM
Well, I play each equally, and, perhaps due to the mass battles in BOB2, I do not notice the alleged choreography in it as much as I do in IL-2 offline, but, on a purely statistical level, I can predictably shoot down airplanes in IL-2 46, and I can't say the same for BOB2 whether I'm using RAF or Luftwaffe fighters. In fact, with the latter, I am content to wing an opponent.

ratchet1961
03-06-2007, 07:34 PM
just recieved mine through the post today, downloaded and patched it, then took it for a quick spin. Its really nice to fly over home, reconise the coast line and look down and see the radar towers, and that engine sound has to be the best Merlin engine sound in any flight sim so far. Had a few short flights just to start getting things set up, but still having some stuttering problems, any idea`s ?. Oh well off to put in some more IL2 practice.
Cheers Ratchet.

msalama
03-06-2007, 11:26 PM
Yeah, the AI's pretty good and the cockpits look great, but what's with the FMs? I've noticed there's no real need to use any rudder trim whatsoever, and ditto for corrective rudder during manouvers like loops f.ex. To me at least that points to deficiencies in the engine-related physics modelling... and YES, before anyone asks I'm naturally flying with full realism settings http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

That said I still think it's a nice sim overall, and the general offline gameplay definitely beats anything in IL-2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

scottmal1
03-07-2007, 08:29 AM
I got a new and sealed copy off ebay for 1.70, i've patched it up(v2.05) and although i've only had about 15 mins on it , it works well and the sounds are brilliant, i believe the next patch 2.06 is imminent?

FlatSpinMan
03-07-2007, 08:54 AM
I am getting increasingly interested in this game. Might wait for 2.06 and see if the possible downloadable version materialises as it'll be impossible to find here in Japan I'm guessing.

ratchet1961
03-07-2007, 10:32 AM
FlatSinMan, if you can get your hands on a copy i would do so, yes you will find the odd fault but you`ll get that in any sim, it seems to be the nature of the beast, but every time i take a test flight {got the trackir sorted, now i`ve started creating a joystick file for the couger} i get more and more drawn in, flew along the cliffs of Dover last night and i could hear seaguls!, and like scottmal1 said he only payed 1.70 for his copy thats less than a pint of beer over here !.
Yes i believe the 2.06 patch should be out any day now !
Regards Ratchet

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Well, I play each equally, and, perhaps due to the mass battles in BOB2, I do not notice the alleged choreography in it as much as I do in IL-2 offline, but, on a purely statistical level, I can predictably shoot down airplanes in IL-2 46, and I can't say the same for BOB2 whether I'm using RAF or Luftwaffe fighters. In fact, with the latter, I am content to wing an opponent.

I totally agree. The AI in Bob makes every one V one fight a very interesting experiance. Il-2 doesn't match it. Flew a very interesting one v one dogfight in bob the other day agains't a spit. I wanted to see who in a slow speed turn fight with a spit would win out. I have a discription of this very same actual thing happening between a british test pilot flying a captured 109e and a spit. In the test the 109 beat the spit in a slow speed fight. So did I in Bob. Wasn't an easy battle though because the spit pilots in BOB really act more human then computer controlled. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

leitmotiv
03-07-2007, 10:52 AM
I like the smog over London and sheep in the fields!

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by ratchet1961:
FlatSinMan, if you can get your hands on a copy i would do so, yes you will find the odd fault but you`ll get that in any sim, it seems to be the nature of the beast, but every time i take a test flight {got the trackir sorted, now i`ve started creating a joystick file for the couger} i get more and more drawn in, flew along the cliffs of Dover last night and i could hear seaguls!, and like scottmal1 said he only payed 1.70 for his copy thats less than a pint of beer over here !.
Yes i believe the 2.06 patch should be out any day now !
Regards Ratchet

Ya Bob 2 has is share of faults (what game doesn't?) but the support community and forum at shockwave are second to no one one on working on what needs to be fixed and answering one's questions about any problems one has with the game. The shockwave forum site is the best I have ever seen. People there are genuinely helpful about any question or problem you have.
This site seems to run on with little or feedback or support from the creators of Il-2.

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
I like the smog over London and sheep in the fields!

Now your making me laugh.I will have to put down my coke for a minute.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 11:08 AM
To me BoB2 just keeps getting better and more realistic all the time. Il-2 just seems to get different planes to shoot down.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Chivas
03-07-2007, 11:19 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
To me BoB2 just keeps getting better and more realistic all the time. Il-2 just seems to get different planes to shoot down.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

" just seems to get different planes to shoot down."

Now that is funny! LMFAO

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
To me BoB2 just keeps getting better and more realistic all the time. Il-2 just seems to get different planes to shoot down.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

" just seems to get different planes to shoot down."

Now that is funny! LMFAO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

simple minds.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Chivas
03-07-2007, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
To me BoB2 just keeps getting better and more realistic all the time. Il-2 just seems to get different planes to shoot down.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

" just seems to get different planes to shoot down."

Now that is funny! LMFAO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

simple minds.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stick around its Troll feeding time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 12:04 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by stalkervision:
To me BoB2 just keeps getting better and more realistic all the time. Il-2 just seems to get different planes to shoot down.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

" just seems to get different planes to shoot down."

Now that is funny! LMFAO </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

simple minds.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stick around its Troll feeding time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Then you must be hungry... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 12:17 PM
There are still a few things that need to be improved along with the DM before BOB WOV will be in the same class as FB

I like that quote. What class is that? The cartoonish looking first person combat flight sim shooter class? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Yes Bob isn't perfect with the graphics. No sh-T sally. Much perferable is seeing the same trees repeated over and over and over and in forest in FB. Oh and the clouds and water detail.. Highly realistic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Get up in the air though a bit and Bob's ground scenes look excellent as does it's realistic air scenery graphics in general. Totally enjoyable just flying from cloud to cloud in BOB and watching the scenery go by. Can you say that in FB? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Bob is improving all the time and Il-2 I am sorry just isn't IMO..

well I will leave you to shot down a few more rediculously easy kills of ai planes. Hell I have shot down Erich Hartman more times then I can ever remember.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chivas
03-07-2007, 01:04 PM
Enjoy your meal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Enjoy your meal http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

come on you can do better then to repeat yourself. I already owned you on that remark.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SeaVee
03-07-2007, 04:06 PM
The 2.06 patch is imminently to be released - my estimate 2-3 weeks max. I base that on testing progress as I am just a beta tester, not one of the Devs. I also am pretty active like many others on the forums trying to answer user queries.

This really isn't about which game is better or worse. Both IL2 and BoB2 have their strengths and weaknesses, neither are perfect for everyone, and both have some warts. Every single game out there of any genre has these elements.

I don't quite understand the notion that some apparently have that one can't have both games and actively play both on a regular basis. Finding relative merits in one does not mean the other is valueless in that regard or a POS.

It's like having a Porsche or a Mercedes. Just because I have one and may really like it does not mean the other is a piece of **** - because that is clearly not the case.

Il2's water on Perfect is better and the plane externals might be a smidge sharper but those in BoB2 are not bad at all on high settings. The BoB2 cockpits are quite good even with a few gauge warts. The sounds in BoB2 - across the board are very very good. Il2's sounds are just OK to me - especially the engine sounds seem to "computer" generated, still they are not terrible either. Il2 has 4DOF in TIR and BoB2 has 6DOF, in either case they do TIR well.

I enjoy playing both sims but enjoy the offline play in BoB2 ALOT more. The AI and large scale battles are quite entertaining and there is a big "replayability" factor even without human opponents. There is a sense of enhanced immersion that I get out of BoB2 that is hard to articulate but just "feels" right and more intense than in any other flight sim I've played. I've certainly never felt that intensely when flying against AI planes except in BoB2. Its not that Il2 is not immersive - it is, especially with human opponents - but its just not quite the same, especially off-line.

With all I like about BoB2, there is no multi-player. As good as the AI is in Bob2 it is hard to beat good human opponents who are not immature jerks. Sometimes its hard to find a good group on-line or one doesn't have the time. Some days all I have is 15-20 minutes flying time and doing a 12V12 against the AI in BoB2 is quite rewarding. The ACE, HERO and now for 2.06 "Terminator" AI are a challenge and rival even good human opponents, especially in large scale battles. Also the campaign in BoB2 is absolutely awesome and gets widespread praise.

Look, its no skin off my back for those on the fence. Buy it, don't buy it, whatever.

SOW may be many months away... When its released I'm definitely buying it but I doubt I'll give up on BoB2 even then. If in the meantime you want to try a very good quality alternative sim for little downside risk $$ invested or time just give it a shot. Its not like investing $20-$30 in BoB2 (often found for far less) is gonna break the bank.

Read new user posts at SimHQ or Shockwave - the vast majority of people who try it tend to like it quite a bit and remark how they regret not having given it a try earlier. Many of them are also avid IL2 players.

trumper
03-07-2007, 04:25 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

Well said Seevee.
It is'nt a them V us competition,they are both winners and can only get better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

stalkervision
03-07-2007, 04:31 PM
All very true. I fly Il-2 now and again also. It just isn't the same anymore now that I am spoiled with bob. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I can't wait for the 2.6! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif Hay don't play BoB. Why do we care? It saves all the fun for us guys that do! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

slipBall
03-07-2007, 04:34 PM
(quote)The 2.06 patch is imminently to be released - my estimate 2-3 weeks max


That sounds familiar! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Chivas
03-07-2007, 04:49 PM
I agree SeaVee, that there is a nice immersion level that BOB WOV achieves. In my opinion this applies to alot of us folks who grew up reading about the Battle of Britain. We connect with English voice pack and expressions of the time more than we would with a Russian and German speach pact.

All I need is Vera Lynn singing in the background "We'll Meet Again",or "There'll be Blue Birds over the White Cliffs of Dover", and I'm hooked.

~Salute~
Chivas

stanford-ukded
03-07-2007, 05:05 PM
Can anyone tell me where to find the 2.05 manual? Thanks!

Chivas
03-07-2007, 05:20 PM
Originally posted by stanford-ukded:
Can anyone tell me where to find the 2.05 manual? Thanks!

I think SeaVee is putting together a 2.05/2.06 manual that may be out by the time 2.06 is released.

You can still use the 2.04 manual which is downloadable at the Shockwave site and read the 2.05 update for changes.

http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5628

Chivas

SeaVee
03-07-2007, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by stanford-ukded:
Can anyone tell me where to find the 2.05 manual? Thanks!

The 2.04 manual can be downloaded here: http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5934

There was not an interim 2.05 manual update but there will be one for 2.06. I was going to update 2.05 but some "real life" issues got in the way - sorry guys. With that said the new material in a 2.05 manual revision (if there had been one) would not have been that much and not anything different than what is in the 2.05 release announcements found in Scott's first post in this thread: http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6525

The 2.06 manual update will include alot of that and some info on the 2.06 changes.

Bottom line, the overwhelming majority of what you need is in the 2.04 manual linked above. The shockwave forums are also very well known to have a very high level of responsiveness to questions both from the Devs and the community.

slipBall, I'm not just pulling that estimate out of the air. For the 2.04 and 2.05 patches there were similar estimated release dates announced - both by me and Buddye (one of the main Devs of BoB2) and they ended up being absolutely on target. Barring some major meltdown in the already near-final 2.06 release candidate testing that is already actively being tested, I'd place a fairly high degree of confidence in that 2-3 week estimated time frame. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

stanford-ukded
03-07-2007, 06:45 PM
That was a hardcore response, thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

trumper
03-08-2007, 02:22 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Lets put this into context.As far as i am aware the developers and testers are volunteers who do this in their own time.
They have taken an old game [which from my basic understanding was light years ahead of it's time in alot of respects ] but was flawed.
These guys have dragged this sim up by it's bootlaces to the sim now in use.
I daresay if they had the same time and manpower and equipment as the big guys working full time on other sims it would be a real boon.
I know when SOW comes out i will have all 3 sims on my H/D. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
For anyone still sitting on the fence,come and say hello on the shockwave forums and see how helpful,SeeVee,Buddye and all the others are,all in their own time. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

slipBall
03-08-2007, 02:45 AM
2 weeks is a old standing joke around here...I was trying to be funny, not question the release of 2.06...by the way, I am enjoying WOV

trumper
03-08-2007, 03:02 AM
Originally posted by slipBall:
2 weeks is a old standing joke around here...I was trying to be funny, not question the release of 2.06...by the way, I am enjoying WOV

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif I know LOL, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
I am seeing alot of il2 players on the BoB2 forums now as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Dogfighter1969
03-08-2007, 04:51 AM
Few weeks ago I posted a threat about SOW, asking whether it will also have hundreds of planes in the air at once like it was in the real War and also how it apparently is in WOV. Tully responded saying that those planes lack quality in graphics and that's why WOV could simulate those numbers of planes in the air at the same time. My comment was that if SOW doesn't simulate those numbers of planes it would make the Battle of Britain seem flat, like PF in my opinion (I am talking about off-line games in this instance).
My feeling is that I rather sacrifice graphics to a certain extent and rather have realism built into the game ito damage models, flight modelling, etc. What do you guys think?
I am now more interested in buying WOV after reading all your posts. It sounds good and it is true IMO that IL-2 is just throwing more planes at us and thereby keeping us hooked. But nothing is really new is it? Yes, graphics are better, etc but something is still lacking. Just can't put my finger on it. Maybe there just aren't enough planes in the fights to my liking. Where are the swarms of Jap planes that I always thought was so typical of the Pacific War? Where are the big bomber formations that used to be part of the European theater? True, our hardware can only cope up to a point. But surely it is more than what IL-2 currently requires from us? Doesn't WOV prove this?
Because of all the above, I am actually very wary of what SOW might offer us.

Worf101
03-08-2007, 05:37 AM
Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
I never did get it to run on my system - even after applying the DEP workaround and patches it would still CTD from the menu screen or after a few minutes of flight. I'm sure it is a great game but I'm not the only one who encountered CTD issues.
+1 My experience completely. I tried and tried for a solid 2 weeks. I tried every suggestion I could get my hands on and still "no go". I give the folks here and there credit though Lemotiv and others tried their damndest but my machine wasn't havin it. I just didn't want to be first to bad mouth a product that many here enjoy.

Da Worfster

capt_frank
03-08-2007, 05:41 AM
Originally posted by Dogfighter1969:
Where are the big bomber formations that used to be part of the European theater?

I recently finished a mission for IL2 wherein I had 50-60 B-17s heading deep into France to polish off the airbase at Caen. Additionally, I had 12 A-20's stealing off from the west on a sneak attack. Plus fighter escorts to boot. That's a slew full of planes!

I ended up reverting from the B-17 to the B-29 as they carried higher bomb loads and I could reduce the number of planes - it was geeting a little crowded at the "Bomb Site" with all those B-17s..just a little hard to "thread that needle".

Nonetheless, it's possible to re-create a good schwarm in IL2.

SeaVee
03-08-2007, 05:51 AM
The original Rowan software designers of BoB2 were brilliant in their approach to being able to have huge formations and not have the game be a slide show. Remember that worked even with the much inferior 1999-2000 PC technology compared to what exists today. The evolution of ever more powerful PCs allowed even more refinement and better models and graphics - resulting in BoB2.

It is a mistaken perception (that unfortunately keeps getting perpetuated) to think this is achieved by having stick figure, poor quality models. The A/C externals are very, very detailed and good - at ranges where you can see them. At further distances the lower LOD models become more simplified but the player basically does not notice these the majority of the time.

It is not just LOD models though that allow BoB2 to effectively achieve these large scale battles while still retaining the ability of individual plane "identities" when in combat. BoB2 uses a combination of brilliant code schemes including the "SAG" (Super Air Group) so that large formations - at a distance from the player will be treated by the game as one or a small group of planes. This efficiently uses the PC resources and puts them where they are most needed. As the player gets closer, the SAG hierarchy "retracts" and the planes can break into individual planes with unique maneouvers and pilot actions.

It works quite well and the overall effect with the excellent clouds, sounds, environment and large numbers of planes provides great immersiveness. Many, many users comment on how good the overall effect is. It is hard to articulate this as it is so subjective - the best description I've read is that the game has a "soul" that makes them "feel" what they imagine being in the real BoB must have been like.

A very very short account of how BoB2 came to be:

The original Battle of Britain was designed by Rowan Software. Rowan was a major flight gaming studio with a very talented group and they had released several successful and critically acclaimed air combat games in the '90s - including Mig Alley. BoB was their crown jewel with literally hundreds of thousands of man hours put into it. Unfortunately towards the latter part of its development the financial death knell of the company was tolling and they had to rush some aspects or not finish them as well as they could.

Rowan Software died soon after the original BoB original release in late 1999/2000. In its death throes, the ownership decided that it did not wan't the amazing effort put into BoB to die with it. So they released the source code to the BDG group volunteers (a small, technically talented group of dedicated fans of the game). The BDG continued to refine and improve the game with a lot of talent but few numbers and limited resources and "real life" to contend with. The core BDG group eventually hooked up with Shockwave which has now taken the lead in continuing to develop the game. Shockwave remains a pretty small company with limited resources (it is NOT EA games) and what has been done by that dedicated group is simply amazing.

PS: slipBall - I kinda figured you were referring to other games but just in case. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Deedsundone
03-08-2007, 06:09 AM
But doesn´t the 110 pilot got a little bit stiff neck in BOB2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

slipBall
03-08-2007, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by Worf101:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by p-11.cAce:
I never did get it to run on my system - even after applying the DEP workaround and patches it would still CTD from the menu screen or after a few minutes of flight. I'm sure it is a great game but I'm not the only one who encountered CTD issues.
+1 My experience completely. I tried and tried for a solid 2 weeks. I tried every suggestion I could get my hands on and still "no go". I give the folks here and there credit though Lemotiv and others tried their damndest but my machine wasn't havin it. I just didn't want to be first to bad mouth a product that many here enjoy.

Da Worfster </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a shame, it really is a cool sim http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif...maybe after 2.06 release you will give it another go...I am too new to it, to offer you any advice that might help you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Dogfighter1969
03-08-2007, 08:14 AM
Originally posted by capt_frank:
I recently finished a mission for IL2 wherein I had 50-60 B-17s heading deep into France to polish off the airbase at Caen. Additionally, I had 12 A-20's stealing off from the west on a sneak attack. Plus fighter escorts to boot. That's a slew full of planes!


That sounds like what I would like to have. Must admit that I currently only own PF stand-alone. Used to have FB but by the sounds of it, you must have AEP? And then you are referring to a mission that isn't a stock mission?
My comments were based on what I had in FB only and what I currently see in my PF and also I only play offline, stock missions/campaigns. Maybe that explains why you experience it so differently to what I do.
But I am now waiting for '46 to come out over here. So maybe when I get it I can enjoy the type of fights that you are referring to.

capt_frank
03-08-2007, 08:32 AM
Originally posted by Dogfighter1969:
That sounds like what I would like to have. Must admit that I currently only own PF stand-alone. Used to have FB but by the sounds of it, you must have AEP? And then you are referring to a mission that isn't a stock mission?
My comments were based on what I had in FB only and what I currently see in my PF and also I only play offline, stock missions/campaigns. Maybe that explains why you experience it so differently to what I do.
But I am now waiting for '46 to come out over here. So maybe when I get it I can enjoy the type of fights that you are referring to.


I have 1946 (along with everything else to date) and used the Full Mission Builder ("FMB") which is included with the game to create the mission I mentioned. I used to dabble with the FMB but always seemed sorta LOST, until I got me feet wet using CrazySchmidt's wonderful Mission Mate program. From there, I started analysing what the missions looked like in the FMB and away I went. My missions are rather primitive compared to most others, but I do have fun, and that's what it's all about.

Get Mission Mate at http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=8

Oh and btw, the FMB should be in your copy of PF, give 'er a looksee!

scottmal1
03-08-2007, 08:53 AM
My only critism of the il-2 series is the sound (except the original il-2)Now i dont have a top notch soundcard, just onboard AC97 on my humble PC, In the short time i've played BOB2 i would say if you like il-2 you will like BOB2 and the sound is really good, the engines havent got that annoying 'buzzing' like an angry wasp that il-2 has! but as i stated i have not heard il-2 through a quality soundcard.

stalkervision
03-08-2007, 10:49 AM
Originally posted by capt_frank:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dogfighter1969:
Where are the big bomber formations that used to be part of the European theater?

I recently finished a mission for IL2 wherein I had 50-60 B-17s heading deep into France to polish off the airbase at Caen. Additionally, I had 12 A-20's stealing off from the west on a sneak attack. Plus fighter escorts to boot. That's a slew full of planes!

I ended up reverting from the B-17 to the B-29 as they carried higher bomb loads and I could reduce the number of planes - it was geeting a little crowded at the "Bomb Site" with all those B-17s..just a little hard to "thread that needle".

Nonetheless, it's possible to re-create a good schwarm in IL2. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's all the planes in the mission? In BoB 2 that would be a tiny probing raid.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

and in Il-2 the ai is so damn predictable. I can line up shots on bombers all the time without the least interference from enemy fighters noticing what I am doing..

joeap
03-08-2007, 11:02 AM
You know mate, BoB is a quality sim, but there is no need to put down the competition all the time, and you are really underestimating what 3rd party have done for the sim. In particular, offline 3rd party static campaigns, if well crafted can work around AI shortcomings and create a sense of immersion the default dynamic generator is sadly lacking. Even here we have DCG and also some folks have reworked Dgen to improve it.

Online as was said, while in principle better still lacks the type of teamwork so necessary in real air combat.

stalkervision
03-08-2007, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by joeap:
You know mate, BoB is a quality sim, but there is no need to put down the competition all the time, and you are really underestimating what 3rd party have done for the sim. In particular, offline 3rd party static campaigns, if well crafted can work around AI shortcomings and create a sense of immersion the default dynamic generator is sadly lacking. Even here we have DCG and also some folks have reworked Dgen to improve it.

Online as was said, while in principle better still lacks the type of teamwork so necessary in real air combat.

Each has it's virtues. I haven't tried "reworked versions" of BoB Il-2 so you may be right about that. When someone makes Il-2 AI perform like BoB2 WOV I will have a much improved outlook on the game all around.

blakduk
03-08-2007, 05:19 PM
Is it just me or do the graphics in BOB2:WOV look 'muddy'?
I thought it was just my display settings but i've checked out a couple of videos from the game in Youtube and they seem the same. I find it really hard to see other planes unless i cheat by using the peripheral vision icons to help locate them.
I also find the flight model to be a bit too wooden- it feels much the same as a Microsoft flightsim.
As far as the sounds go- i'm not overly impressed with them however my soundcard isn't the best. I find i get more information from the IL2 sounds (engine revs, damage etc) than from the ones in BOB.
I do find the AI harder to predict but i suspect that's from me becoming very familiar with the IL2 game.
I have grown to appreciate the 6DOF- i had trouble with my setup originally.
One thing i do find odd though is that the BOB:WOV game feels more basic, however it makes much more demands on my system. I have to dial back the graphics quite a lot to get a reasonable framerate compared with IL2.
I do notice though that in IL2 when there a large numbers of planes and flak etc the framerate takes a much more noticeable hit. The framerates in BOB:WOV seem more independant of the number of planes in the air.

Chivas
03-08-2007, 11:10 PM
Originally posted by blakduk:
Is it just me or do the graphics in BOB2:WOV look 'muddy'?
I thought it was just my display settings but i've checked out a couple of videos from the game in Youtube and they seem the same. I find it really hard to see other planes unless i cheat by using the peripheral vision icons to help locate them.
I also find the flight model to be a bit too wooden- it feels much the same as a Microsoft flightsim.
As far as the sounds go- i'm not overly impressed with them however my soundcard isn't the best. I find i get more information from the IL2 sounds (engine revs, damage etc) than from the ones in BOB.
I do find the AI harder to predict but i suspect that's from me becoming very familiar with the IL2 game.
I have grown to appreciate the 6DOF- i had trouble with my setup originally.
One thing i do find odd though is that the BOB:WOV game feels more basic, however it makes much more demands on my system. I have to dial back the graphics quite a lot to get a reasonable framerate compared with IL2.
I do notice though that in IL2 when there a large numbers of planes and flak etc the framerate takes a much more noticeable hit. The framerates in BOB:WOV seem more independant of the number of planes in the air.

I also find the default cockpit view dull. There is a clear glass mod that gives you a much brighter outlook, that still has the reflections. I think I downloaded at Stickmans site but not sure if the one there is the same. Anyway heres a link to Stickmans sight.
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/stickman1/Cockpits.html

~Salute~
Chivas

SeaVee
03-08-2007, 11:44 PM
Many people find the stock cockpit glass too "hazy" and use a clearer glass mod like Chivas is describing.

The "clearer glass mod" is not totally transparent - you can see the difference between CP open and closed - but it far less hazy than the stock glass. It is cool in that for the spit it has the "knock-out" panel on the left side too. This mod, along with some awesome alternate RAF flybys and an alternate .303 browning sound can be found here:

http://www.electronicfiles.net/files/1902/BoB%20II%20Ra...0Cockpit%20Glass.zip (http://www.electronicfiles.net/files/1902/BoB%20II%20Radio%20Mods/Sounds%20and%20Cockpit%20Glass.zip)

You can SEE the clearer glass mod in-game in this 1 minute BoB2 6DOF TIR video clip: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2051208934938168866&hl=en

Remember this is a significantly compressed, much lower res video than the actual in-game view.



Link where these are discussed in more detail here:
http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6451

Dogfighter1969
03-09-2007, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by capt_frank:
I have 1946 (along with everything else to date) and used the Full Mission Builder ("FMB") which is included with the game to create the mission I mentioned. I used to dabble with the FMB but always seemed sorta LOST, until I got me feet wet using CrazySchmidt's wonderful Mission Mate program. From there, I started analysing what the missions looked like in the FMB and away I went. My missions are rather primitive compared to most others, but I do have fun, and that's what it's all about.

Get Mission Mate at http://www.mission4today.com/index.php?name=Downloads&file=details&id=8

Oh and btw, the FMB should be in your copy of PF, give 'er a looksee!

Yes, I have the FMB in my copy. Stuffed around on it a bit. But like you said originally, I also get a bit LOST on it. Have to bow my head in shame to say that I haven't read the manual though. Not the part about the FMB that is. Maybe if I do that I will get around the FMB more easily. But at the moment I just don't seem to get around to do that. I also have the manual for Falcon 4 Allied Force to work through. The whole 700+ pages of it. Also don't find time to do that.
Will try Mission Mate once I have '46. Believe it will be much more user friendly from the sounds of it. Thanks for the tip.

capt_frank
03-09-2007, 07:59 AM
Dogfighter,

While your waiting on '46's arrival, take a look at this FMB tutorial. It walks you through each step of setting up missions, etc. It really is easier than it looks!

http://www.il2-fullmissionbuilder.com/index.html

Insuber
03-10-2007, 10:59 AM
I purchased and enjoyed all of the 1C:Maddox releases since the very first one in 2001 (if I'm not wrong), and stressed my DSL with all of the tens of patches.

I boughtBWB WOV as soon as it was released but soon abandoned it 'cause of its stability issues.

I retained however a strange feeling of immersiveness, a real sense of danger when streams of 109's and bombers popped out from the clouds, and my squadron revved the engines and the fight began. It was something awakening in my memeory the pilot books readings of my childhood.
After reading this thread however I decided to give it a try with the latest 2.05 patch.

The first impression is excellent, it looks they did quantum leaps at Shockwave. it deserves a more thorough test ...


Rgrds,
Insuber

stalkervision
03-10-2007, 11:35 AM
Originally posted by Insuber:
I purchased and enjoyed all of the 1C:Maddox releases since the very first one in 2001 (if I'm not wrong), and stressed my DSL with all of the tens of patches.

I boughtBWB WOV as soon as it was released but soon abandoned it 'cause of its stability issues.

I retained however a strange feeling of immersiveness, a real sense of danger when streams of 109's and bombers popped out from the clouds, and my squadron revved the engines and the fight began. It was something awakening in my memeory the pilot books readings of my childhood.
After reading this thread however I decided to give it a try with the latest 2.05 patch.

The first impression is excellent, it looks they did quantum leaps at Shockwave. it deserves a more thorough test ...


Rgrds,
Insuber

A better processor and the new patch and things are SWEET right now with BOBWOV.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

a even better patch to make further great improvments is coming out in a week..! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

Dogfighter1969
03-11-2007, 04:43 AM
Originally posted by capt_frank:
Dogfighter,

While your waiting on '46's arrival, take a look at this FMB tutorial. It walks you through each step of setting up missions, etc. It really is easier than it looks!

http://www.il2-fullmissionbuilder.com/index.html


Thanks Capt Frank. Will give it a try.
Much appreciated.

Huxley_S
03-14-2007, 09:50 AM
Wings of Victory is a nice attempt but it is too buggy and incomplete to be a serious competitor to the IL2 series.

One of the main reasons I decided to try WoV was for the sounds, one of IL2s weakest points. I now realize just how good the IL2 sounds really are. WoV sounds are cheesy samples that sound impressive for a minute or two and then rapidly become annoying, especially the fly-by sound.

The clouds were another reason to investigate. Yes, WoV has huge clouds but graphics problems let them down. Exiting a cloud can be unnaturally abrupt.

Also, people have mentioned the challenging AI. Rather, all my opponents tend to crash into the ground pretty quickly in a low altitude turn fight. The aircraft themselves seem to be practically weightless and able to roll and turn like something out of a science-fiction movie. Damage is not presented very well visually and all in all, combat is a confusing, arcade-like and unsatisfactory experience.

The best thing about WoV is how fast and smooth it runs even with lots of aircraft in the air, but the landscape textures are so much lower in quality than IL2 it is not entirely surprising.

Some people really like this game, but I was disappointed.

ploughman
03-14-2007, 11:08 AM
I purchased it, installed it and and patched it up to 2.05.

I had to turn off the FFB to turn it on.

I haven't a clue what's going on 98% of the time, occaisionally something whizzes by sounding like a lawnmower which I assume to be a 109. I also seem to be unable to do under 300mph and my crate yo-yos like a nodding donkey. I had to have a quick QMB on '46 to remind myself I wasn't a total n00b.

Anyway, early, early days yet. The campagin aspect looks fantastic though, I have no idea what all the menus and stuff does, but it really does look very good.

SeaVee
03-14-2007, 05:03 PM
Huxley_S,

Sorry it seems the game experience was not positive for you. A few questions if I may:

When you played at what settings did you have the flight models and engine management options? Hopefully they were at the realistic settings. At novice it is significantly more arcade like. Also, what did you set the AI's skill levels at in the individual missions? Ace and Hero Ai should be alot harder than the lower skill levels. Not trying to be judgemental but your description of "all in all combat is a confusing, arcade-like and unsatisfactory experience" is so substantially different what the majority of new users at both Shockwave and SimHQ have posted (many of whom are regular IL2 players) that I am wondering if its something in the settings you have in the game.....

As far as visuals, what types of GFX options did you select? If your PC can handle it try most settings on the higher levels except for Particle Density which should not be set above Medium. Clouds and water in particular look substantially better with Weather and Water on HIGH. Also the clouds in Poor and Inclement are MUCH thicker. While there are a few sky anomalies (ocassional lines mostly), the clouds are something that have been almost universally praised....

At the end BoB2 just may not be for you. As you say, some people really like this game but you were disappointed. I guess I'm just trying to make sure that conclusion wasn't due to things that a few options settings could have changed dramatically for you...

@ Ploughman: - Can you clarify what you mean you have to turn off FFB to turn it on? This is the first I hear of this issue. Some older MSFFB Pro (gameport style, not USB) sticks don't work with FFB in WinXP but that is a WinXP issue, not one of Bob2. What type of joystick are you using? If you have issues with setup post over at SW and I'm almost certain others will have your controller(s) and can offer tips. Did you do the "DEP Exclusion"?

Huxley_S
03-14-2007, 06:19 PM
Hey SeaVee,

I ramped up all the settings to as you suggested and maxed out ground object denisty and it definitely looks much better now as well as remaining silky smooth with no stutters.

Maybe I'm just too used to IL2, and my experience of flight sims too limited to be objective enough about your sim.

I have flown 1 vs 1 against a Hero AI but I just didn't find him very believable, too twitchy to be obeying the laws of physics. It looked like my bullets were ricocheting off the 109. Are ricochets actually being modelled?

We ended up flying low over the sea and he just ditched into it and exploded. Now, either this is an AI problem, or I had managed to do him enough damage for the pilot to 'lose control' so to speak, which is fine. But there was no visual clue that I had done, other than what had seemed to be a couple of ricochets. No smoke, flames, fuel vapours, bits missing or anything like that. That's kind of what I meant when I said I felt it was unsatisfying and confusing.

I'm going to keep playing with it and maybe it'll click with me later on. The majority of posters on this thread obviously really like it.

Insuber
03-15-2007, 04:28 AM
Taken from BOB II: WOV SimHQ review:

"It is hard sometimes to put a finger on why something like this just makes you feel like you are in the past. The almost pastel feel that I get from the game almost makes it feel dreamlike"

Nice description, isnt'it? I was trying to say a similar thing.

Rgds,
Insuber

ploughman
03-15-2007, 04:42 AM
@ Ploughman: - Can you clarify what you mean you have to turn off FFB to turn it on? This is the first I hear of this issue. Some older MSFFB Pro (gameport style, not USB) sticks don't work with FFB in WinXP but that is a WinXP issue, not one of Bob2. What type of joystick are you using? If you have issues with setup post over at SW and I'm almost certain others will have your controller(s) and can offer tips. Did you do the "DEP Exclusion"?

I've go a MS Sidewinder FFB pro. It's not USB ported but plugs into one of the serial ports in the back of my machine which I assume is a game port. I have XP. It works fine with Il2 and I was a little baffled by why it wasn't working when in flight in WoV. I say this because during configuration in WoV the stick was working, resisting my inputs etc, I had a stiffie so to speak, but whenever the game began it would just go limp, it would still accept inputs but no FFB. After a while, for no good reason other than I'd tried everything else, I unchecked the FFB tick box and the stick then worked fine in flight with FFB, airflow shake, gun shudder and all that stuff. Odd but not a problem.

SeaVee
03-15-2007, 06:36 AM
Thanks for that info ploughman, I hope you don't mind but I posted your findings in a thread at shockwave. This may be useful for others with the same stick. Odd that if worked after you UNchecked the FFB tick box in the controller set up.... The plane you killed probably had a wounded pilot who finally bled out or the plane had suffered enough damage it finally crashed. I agree it would be nice if the external visual damage was more obvious in BoB2.

Huxley_S - thanks for the feedback. With respect to observations of the AI behavior, intrestingly, there was a similar discussion just in the last day or so over at SW about this. A user in that thread posted: "The game seems to just run too fast. I mean the a/c just seem too manuverable and buzz around the sky like UFO's compared to IL2"

You and others may be intersted to know that this very issue is being analyzed for a pending 2.06 patch or subsequent, including continued refinement of the overall FMs. Here were a couple of my replies to him in that thread:

"This is a big difference in BoB2 versus iL2. Over time you may or may not like it more. With that said, there are some code changes already in 2.06 that may impact this. Also there are some FM changes being tested that MAY get into 2.06 which may "slow" the planes some - in particular roll rates and to a lesser extent drag. With that said though, IMHO the AI-controlled planes in Il2 are on the other extreme and are simply too sluggish (but fly away too fast and human planes seem to have severe difficulty catching them - even against inferior - slower - adversaries). The AI-controlled planes also seem to have far fewer available manouvres at their disposal or if not don't seem to use many.

...Again, it is not yet clear if these will make it into 2.06 but if not it is HIGHLY likely some variant along these lines will end up in BoB2 soon. The FMs across the board are under a comprehensive review."

Here is one experienced beta tester's comments on testing the latest FM changes:

"After a few 1v1 IA dogfights I find that BoBII has become quite a different animal. Before these changes the dogfights were rapid pitching/rolling affairs with an IMHO much overdone agility. In a split second we could change direction and it always felt wrong. It was fun and by far the best fights v's AI I have ever experienced but the flying feel wasn't quite right.

With these changes it is quite a different experience overall. It feels slower, more graceful and dare I say it more realistic but no less exhilarating. The fights are still frantic but the flying is more fluid and you have to be more on your toes due to the slower and more realistic FM's. A definite improvement IMHO. The AI looks much more fluid and realistic with the reduced rollling agility.

Great work Blue Six."

major_setback
03-15-2007, 09:08 AM
When will patch 2.06 be ready?

SeaVee
03-15-2007, 04:22 PM
My best guesstimate is 2-3 weeks max - barring some major problems. It could even be sooner.

We are about to start testing a 2.06 release candidate, like literally tomorrow or the next day. They are just trying to decide what gets into 2.06 or is going to be delayed for 2.07.

buddye1
03-17-2007, 09:40 PM
Hi Worf101,and/or P-11.cAce

I am sorry for your BOBII experience. I am just a modest AI coder for BOBII but I think I have had some sucess figuring out specific problems on BOBII and getting customers running.

What was your ID on the Shockwave forum so I can review you case? I tried "Worf101" and "P-11.cAce" but no hits.

wingmanno1
03-19-2007, 05:45 AM
I totally agree with Seavee.(@ Seavee: btw. I'm the guy who commented on all of your YouTube clips as ZerokillerOppel) I bought BoB2 off eBay at a bargain price expecting it to be a lemon (read too many negative reviews but wanted to try it) but I was pleasantly surprised. Although
I'm kind of an eye candy junkie (referring to il2 1946)but the gameplay and overall atmosphere of the game makes me a believer now.Besides, the aircraft/cockpits/tracers and skins look very good!! So much for eye-candy.
I too play both sims now on a regular basis and the lack of multiplay does not bother me too much because I'm more into single play myself.
Yes, the 1C Maddox range of products could do with a sound upgrade.
From the 1st Il-2 to 1946 now it has always bothered me that almost all radial and in-line engines sound alike, no matter what nationality.
Hearing those whistling and coughing engines in BoB2 and the thundering fly-bys makes me realize that there is room for improvement.
I have a pretty good pc but when using the Ueberquick Mission Generator for Il-2 (great tool)and trying to make a BoB scenario (meaning: lots of planes!!)I have to sacrifise a bit on the graphics and such if I don't want to end up with a Il-2 1946 slideshow http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
This speaks for BoB2 where there are no troubles whatsoever reproducing 100's of planes in the air with all settings set to "High".
But I must agree as well with Chivas on page 1 where he describes the cardboard cut-out hedges and forests and the game engine which need to be addressed to by the Shockwave team.
And my personal issue about BoB2 is the AI:maybe it's just me but my squadronmates seem to be twitching and jittering when I look at them out of my cockpit.
Another thing: it looks a bit strange seeing 30/40 planes or so all changing direction at excactly the same moment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif , like a flight of birds.
Nevertheless,I still find this a outstanding sim. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif Hail the Shockwave crew!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif Yes,I too will buy BoB- SOW when it hits the shelves but there will be no reason for me disregard BoB2 then.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif Here's a silly thought:
Wouldn't it be just great if all those sim developers joined hands and came up with some super sim? I'm referring to Microsoft,Shockwave,1C Maddox and alot of other smaller developers.-----yeah..right I must be joking... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif a guy can still dream right?

I know this is off-topic but I have another question http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1241.gif :
with all previous installments of Il-2 St./" " FB/PF I had, I always got a copy of the "play it on Ubi-com" tool but it did not come with my copy of 1946. Does anybody has the same issue?
And is there a way to obtain this tool then?

SeaVee
03-19-2007, 06:40 AM
Originally posted by wingmanno1:
I'm kind of an eye candy junkie (referring to il2 1946)but the gameplay and overall atmosphere of the game makes me a believer now.Besides, the aircraft/cockpits/tracers and skins look very good!! So much for eye-candy.

Make sure you have BoB2 maxed out to whatever your PC is capable of, all except particle density which you should not set above medium. There are also some driver settings outside the game menus which can make a big difference on visual quality. Take a look at this thread: http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7344



But I must agree as well with Chivas on page 1 where he describes the cardboard cut-out hedges and forests and the game engine which need to be addressed to by the Shockwave team.

Yes, the treelines are not good at 2D as with the blocky forest raises. It is highly likely these will be entirely replaced eventually but not for 2.06 patch.


And my personal issue about BoB2 is the AI:maybe it's just me but my squadronmates seem to be twitching and jittering when I look at them out of my cockpit. ... Another thing: it looks a bit strange seeing 30/40 planes or so all changing direction at excactly the same moment http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif , like a flight of birds.

In the next 2.06 patch you should see a very big improvement on these issues. The planes will no longer appear to be so synchronized and when in cockpit looking at your wingies you will see individual planes undulating randomly. Looks very much more real now.

Oh, the AI agility and twitchiness which was a bit overdone IMO has been toned down but the battles are just as immersive and frenetic. See the thread below where you can preview just a small part of the new 2.06 patch - the new flight models. So far 100% of the Beta testers have reported liking these more than the existing FM. The FMs will continue to be refined going forward with the objective of continuing to move as close as possible to the "real life" specs of these planes. You should see a BIG improvement now even just with these.

Preview the new FM (you can use these now with 2.05): http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7...a3a78df8ceb56f1a10aa (http://shockwaveproductions.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7341&sid=1da5955cb557a3a78df8ceb56f1a10aa)

Note: The FM preview in the link above is limited ONLY to the new FM, you will NOT see the improvements to the views of AI and all the new and improved things in 2.06. For example in the FM preview you do NOT have additional code changes which impact AI maneuver selection based on energy state. The full 2.06 patch will give a much better uderstanding/appreciation of these inter-related things.

2.06 is a week or two away at most now I think. This is my own personal estimate as a Beta tester based on progress and I think is 85% accurate on time line barring a major setback in final testing.

wingmanno1
03-19-2007, 07:05 AM
Hmmmm...can't wait for that 2.06 patch to come out!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
I will look in to that tip of the particle density settings.
Thx Seavee! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Chivas
03-19-2007, 12:57 PM
SeaVee presents a balance view of BOB WOV and not blinded by fanboyism. BOB WOV is a work in progress with many issues that need to be addressed. Thats why there are people like Buddye,Bader,Osram,Scott,Stickman,Musk,Irk,SeaVee, etc working countless hours to keep WOV one of the top two combat flight sims on the market.
~Salue~
Chivas

wingmanno1
03-27-2007, 01:34 PM
Yes Chivas,

I understand this and appreciate these people very much. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif
I'm no Il-2 fanboy but since it was outthere before Bob2 I tend to compare everything to that standard. No offence ment though to the Bob2 developers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

leitmotiv
03-27-2007, 04:06 PM
I had no trouble with version 2.04, but 2.05 freezes when trying to load a scenario. This creates some trouble because I'm a tester!

ICAG_Snip
03-27-2007, 05:51 PM
Hi leitmotiv,

sorry to hear, the WOV community lost a tester in the process. To my best knowledge, the support forum leaves very few users out in the dark at present.
Please consider to (re-)file your problems over there, and a lot of supporters/betas/developers will be more than willing to come to your aid.

Cheers
Snip

Worf101
03-27-2007, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by buddye1:
Hi Worf101,and/or P-11.cAce

I am sorry for your BOBII experience. I am just a modest AI coder for BOBII but I think I have had some sucess figuring out specific problems on BOBII and getting customers running.

What was your ID on the Shockwave forum so I can review you case? I tried "Worf101" and "P-11.cAce" but no hits.
Sorry man, I've been down with system troubles, just saw your kind offer. When I get up and running again I'll try and re-install the game...

Da Worfster

BrotherVoodoo
03-29-2007, 02:08 PM
I knew if I waited long enough a patch would come out to make the game more playable. I'll giver her a shot this weekend....Here's hoping! 6d0f is good times man with the TIR.

p-11.cAce
03-29-2007, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by buddye1:
Hi Worf101,and/or P-11.cAce

I am sorry for your BOBII experience. I am just a modest AI coder for BOBII but I think I have had some sucess figuring out specific problems on BOBII and getting customers running.

What was your ID on the Shockwave forum so I can review you case? I tried "Worf101" and "P-11.cAce" but no hits.

Scott set me up with a Shockwave account and I got everything loaded and patched. I've been pretty busy with the squad training for some matches and have not really had a chance to get much past settting up my options. When I'm in the mood to play offline I'll give it another go.

SeaVee
03-29-2007, 02:40 PM
BrotherVoodoo and p-11.cAce,

You may want to hold off running it in version 2.05.

The 2.06 patch will be out imminently (I think late next week likely - a few snags came up in testing the release candidates but almost done now) and the changes and improvements, especially to the Flight Models and AI behavior generally are quite significant compared to 2.05. Its good as is now but 2.06 is vastly superior IMHO.

leitmotiv
03-29-2007, 02:54 PM
Will 2.06 cure the freeze glitch which I am gettng with 2.05?

Chivas
03-29-2007, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by leitmotiv:
Will 2.06 cure the freeze glitch which I am gettng with 2.05?

Interesting because the 2.05 is quite stable. I guess you've already reinstalled and redownload the patch incase there was a glitch in the install or patch.

~Salute~
Chivas

Buster_Dee
03-29-2007, 05:24 PM
Well, there seem to be alot of fairly knowedgable folks in here, so I'll ask. Is FFB meant to be fully supported, or is just "spring tension" supported? I have an old Microsoft FFB gameport and just can't seem to give it up. I kept hearing FFB was supported, but it never really felt like feedback to me. I'm terrible at the "strategy" aspect of the game, so I've never figured out what it wanted me to set up enough to do a campaign.

Love the sounds though--and the 6DOF.

SeaVee
03-29-2007, 09:37 PM
Buster_Dee, FFB is fully supported in BoB2 but I don't think they will work correctly with your gameport version of the MSFFB stick. No one with your stick seems to get it to work fully at any rate. I know for sure the FFB effects work with the newer MSFFB2 (USB) sticks in BoB2. The FFB effects are very, very good in BoB2, especially wind buffet, approaching stall, etc. Go over to Shockwave's BoB2 forums for much more info on this issue.

leitmotiv
03-29-2007, 10:39 PM
Two reinstalls=freeze whenever I try to load. Never happened with 2.04 (I have the BOB2 disk that came patched up to 2.04). Can't understand it.

SeaVee
03-30-2007, 06:04 AM
Leitmotiv - sent you a PM on this.

buddye1
03-30-2007, 04:45 PM
Hi leitmotiv,

We have not had a hang/freeze problem with BOBII version 2.05 to my knowledge.

We have work through almost all freeze or hang issues with the following issues:
1. Bad Mod data that hangs the software (we fix all these as we find them).
2. Hardware problems (memory, and HD).
3. Virus Software the last example was Bit Defender (prevented files from loading)
4. A bad save game file caused by 1,2,3 above and the customer leaves files in the BoBII folder after a reinstall. The game then keeps hanging on the bad save game.

As you can see each case is specific to a customers PC environment. We would need to find your specific problem. If you ran fine on 2.04, I would bet (only a guess)based on my experience that something changed in your PC environment.