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View Full Version : Cesare Borgia - The Personal Touch?



LordWolv
02-02-2011, 12:13 AM
This is my complaint thread about Cesare Borgia being Ezio's main enemy through the whole of Brotherhood. Some people might not get what I'm trying to say so I'll try and explain as much as I can.

Ezio studies Cesare Borgia throughout the game. He knows his power, position in power, amount of guards, family threat, where he lives, mainly where he visits... The list goes on forever.

Cesare, however, endlessly addresses his threat as the 'Assassins' and not directly Ezio Auditore. It also seems that the Assassins are a ***** in the side, which I think he said at some point.

This is only a small part of my problem. The thing I find annoying is that Ezio and Cesare don't have a relationship (Old friends, work mates, heavily trusted) that was at some point broke. I feel that if this was the case, they'd be complete hard on enemies instead of the '***** in the side' in Cesare's point of view and dangerous political person in Ezio's point of view. It's all very.. I really don't know how to explain it.

Thanks for reading, I'd like to hear your ideas on this subject. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

dorido
02-02-2011, 12:35 AM
im guessing Cesare just wants to undermine ezio as a threat even though he is fully aware of who ezio is and what he can do as a way to cope with the drawbacks this "lone" assassin is causing him. i think we can also assume that the "canon" of the story has the player, ezio, fully utilizing the BAM button, which means that ezio's sabotages werent done alone and was performed with the assassins as a whole (ex. the guildmaster sending grunts to perform the menial tasks). just my thoughts lol

LordWolv
02-02-2011, 12:38 AM
Originally posted by dorido:
im guessing Cesare just wants to undermine ezio as a threat even though he is fully aware of who ezio is and what he can do as a way to cope with the drawbacks this "lone" assassin is causing him. i think we can also assume that the "canon" of the story has the player, ezio, fully utilizing the BAM button, which means that ezio's sabotages werent done alone and was performed with the assassins as a whole (ex. the guildmaster sending grunts to perform the menial tasks). just my thoughts lol
That is true - I would have prefered it if Cesare didn't play the usual enemy and not respect Ezio's power through speach as well as thought.

dorido
02-02-2011, 01:09 AM
agreed. thats what always bothered me about the assassins creed series in that there was no lovable bad guy. someone who haunt you throughout the game and remind you what you were doing any of it for.

sure u had rodrigo in ac2 but he seemed too weak in the respect that he would always run and in that if u were alone with him u would just trounce him (which sems to apply to all the oher baddies, even cesare, which is sad). plus it wasnt really the main motivation of the story. ezio was suppose to be above revenge so he ended up doing wat he did for the greater good. even though killing rodrigo was always in his mind, i never felt that ezio would go out of his way to do this along with any emotional depth. it was just something the player had to do to progress the story and wasnt very satisfying (compared to everytime luke met darth vader on screen which was full of tension)

al mualim would have been a good bad guy if his run at it wasnt so brief. and since it felt like altair was above all the drama after he was entrusted the mantle to preserve humanity's freedom al mualim just seemed like an annoyance (like a confederate "after" the civil war).

*end rant* lol

LordWolv
02-02-2011, 01:12 AM
Exactly. I really hope they don't do the same in ACIII, even though it looks like there might be another spin-off before it.

dorido
02-02-2011, 01:52 AM
im just hoping that the one coming this year is just a spinoff (hopefully coop lol) cause i want ac3 to do what ac2 did to the original. a year simply isnt enough to make the game that ends the trilogy. hoping its true that its set in revolutionary france and the secret locations involve the templar home bases in france and explore the mysteries sorrunding Jacques de Molay and their "templar treasures"

Ru1986
02-02-2011, 02:06 AM
I see you point. However it would not tie into the story very well we have known Ezio since he was 18 so we would have see Cesere before. Plus he did not spend much time in Florence so while i see your point i dont think it would work if they had more of a connection tbh.

LordWolv
02-02-2011, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by Ru1986:
I see you point. However it would not tie into the story very well we have known Ezio since he was 18 so we would have see Cesere before. Plus he did not spend much time in Florence so while i see your point i dont think it would work if they had more of a connection tbh.
I know, it's a missed opotunity. Imagine if someone like Machevelli was a traitor, or Caterena Sforza. Now that would be an interesting Brotherhood enemy.

ILIKESOUP94
02-02-2011, 08:50 AM
*SPOILERS* I always thought Ezio wanted to avenge Uncle Mario's death and get the apple. That's why he stalked Cesare.

Evan52395
02-02-2011, 06:23 PM
I thought I saw some history between the two of them. When Cesare *spoiler* kills Mario he invites Ezio into his family. At that moment in the cutscene I felt like they had a past that was unspoken and hidden, which I thought ADDED a bit of tension.

dorido
02-03-2011, 02:31 AM
cesare probably grew up hearing about ezio's exploits from his templar cohorts because he was born around the time ezio began his life as an assassin so i could see how there might have been an unspoken tension between the two but only to cesare's perspective. ezio could care less if he ****ed off a little brat who's daddy ezio always seems to one up lol.

maybe ezio bullied cesare as a kid just to get on rodrigo's nerves and from then on cesare was vowing vengeance upon the assassins http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HiddenBlaDe00
02-03-2011, 02:56 AM
Originally posted by Isaac500:
Ezio studies Cesare Borgia throughout the game...
...Cesare, however, endlessly addresses his threat as the 'Assassins' and not directly Ezio Auditore...
The thing I find annoying is that Ezio and Cesare don't have a relationship that was at some point broke...

So you're saying that you aren't happy with Cesare being the main antagonist of ACB because there wasn't a history between he and Ezio? I don't understand. Ezio's father and brothers were killed by Rodrigo Borgia in an attempt to gain political power in his favor. If that weren't enough, as soon as Ezio makes peace with his past and the Borgia, Cesare destroys Monteriggioni in an attempt to gain the Apple and rule all of Italy (or possibly the world). Furthermore, during said invasion, Cesare personally kills Mario Auditore, Ezio's uncle and possibly one of the last people he cared for.

If that's not enough to **** you off and initiate a retaliation, what is?

LordWolv
02-03-2011, 08:41 AM
I'm not saying Cesare was a bad main target - I'm just saying he could be better.

HiddenBlaDe00
02-03-2011, 09:54 AM
Alright, so how do you think Cesare could have been improved?

LordWolv
02-03-2011, 10:09 AM
The fact that Ubisoft constantly said Cesare would be Ezio's ultimate enemy, when actually every time they saw each other Cesare would shout 'GUARDS! GUARDS!' and run off like a fool. Even in the final battle he has his Borgia maggots breathing down Ezio's back. I really think Ubisoft messed that up.

HiddenBlaDe00
02-03-2011, 10:26 AM
I can agree with that. But I think that has less to do with who the antagonist was and more to do with how we play the game. I mean, we could have had Ronald McDonald as our greatest foe, but so long as the similar "GUARDS, GUARDS" tactic continued to be implemented, we wouldn't see any difference in gameplay.

I think Cesare was a cop out for a real antagonist. In other words, I think that he's merely a substitute because he has some sort of historical significance and relation to AC II's antagonist, and not because he was the best choice as far as gameplay goes.

The question here is (as far as I can tell), "What could the game developers do to change the mechanics of the combat system so that players can experience an actual boss battle that didn't consist of one seemingly superior enemy who isn't at all any more challenging than the lowliest grunt that the game offers from the very start?"

Wrap your head around that, and maybe we'll start to see a clash of "good" and "evil" increase to epic proportions.

NewBlade200
02-03-2011, 05:52 PM
I was seriously expecting Cesare to hate Ezio for getting so much more attention from Rodrigo, and in a fit of almost childish rage, *SPOILER* kills his dad *END SPOILER*. Perhaps there could be a sceane with Cesare at the end where he admmits his anger and regrets. I was personaly dissapointed with Cesare, as I never considered him a real enemy. And the boss fight at the end was incredibly underwhelming. Better effort next time AC Team.

LordWolv
02-04-2011, 12:35 AM
I do feel Sequence 9 was pure epicness though. The very atmosphere was mind blowing.