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View Full Version : Il2 keeping combat flight sim genre alive?



greek_fire19
05-20-2005, 09:32 AM
I had a look at Battle of Britain II: wings of victory today, and the ground textures are pretty appalling. I like the clouds, but apart from that it looks ugly and clunky and awkward. I can't imagine buying it.

Il2 on the other hand is sleek and pretty and fun, and I can't imagine playing any other flight sim if it didn't exist.

How about you? Would you find another flight sim or not?

greek_fire19
05-20-2005, 09:32 AM
I had a look at Battle of Britain II: wings of victory today, and the ground textures are pretty appalling. I like the clouds, but apart from that it looks ugly and clunky and awkward. I can't imagine buying it.

Il2 on the other hand is sleek and pretty and fun, and I can't imagine playing any other flight sim if it didn't exist.

How about you? Would you find another flight sim or not?

SeaFireLIV
05-20-2005, 10:15 AM
Oleg`s reputation means that`ll be looking at getting BOB (if I can run it!) more than any other sim. The last time I made an uninformed choice of a flight sim was with CFS3 - boy did I get burned bad!

Maple_Tiger
05-20-2005, 10:17 AM
I'm not thinking of buying another simulation. I first bought IL2 Forgotten Battles a couple of years ago, and I have been hooked ever since. There always seems to be an addon or expanion that just keeps me hooked lol.

Chivas
05-20-2005, 10:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by greek_fire19:

I had a look at Battle of Britain II: wings of victory today, and the ground textures are pretty appalling. I like the clouds, but apart from that it looks ugly and clunky and awkward. I can't imagine buying it.

Il2 on the other hand is sleek and pretty and fun, and I can't imagine playing any other flight sim if it didn't exist.

How about you? Would you find another flight sim or not? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Did you see BOB11 at E3, or at the various websites. I agree the original BOB terrain needed alot of work, some of it improved by the BDG group.

Shockwave has improved everything quite substantially from the original game with the help of the BDG group. SimHq has had a look at the new BOB11 at E3 and were quite impressed. Its hard to get a handle on how good the total game will be, judgeing from the few screenshots Shockwave has bothered to show so far, but the aircraft, clouds, and water are excellent.

Simhq mentioned that the cockpits are as good or better than any flight sim on the market today.

I would like to see a screenshot of the in flight map and the Cliff's of Dover ( whats BOB without them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif )

major_setback
05-20-2005, 01:36 PM
IMHO!!!! :The flight sim community is a VERY small one. Just go into your local gaming shop and ask when BoB will be released and note their reaction (blank stares).

If we don't support the few half-decent sims that are coming out (for a negligable price compared to what we've splashed out on our systems) THEN WHO WILL!

If we exclude all other sims because they don't come near FB/PF nothing else will ever develop. Full credit to those enthusiasts at the BDG that worked hard to help get Wings of Victory to the state it is in now. I will probably buy it when it's released. I don't expect it to be anywhere near as good as the IL2 series, but I'm sure that there will be enough in it to make the purchase worthwhile. What will be most worthwhile however will be the knowledge that, (if Wings of Victory is a success) this MAY lead to further improvements, add-ons, other sims, and so on... in the future.

I am not saying that we owe something to the producers of flight 'sims'. But it seems hypocritical to: on one hand complain that there isn't enough quality competition, and on the other hand dismiss the best efforts of potential future developers.

This is not a personal attack on anybody, nor meant as a specific reply to any post. It's just me stating my opinion.

Enthor1
05-20-2005, 02:57 PM
The IL2 series may be keeping WWII PC flightsims alive for now but, outside of Olegs Battle of Britain, what is in the future for WWII PC flightsimmers?

I think the combination of small market, a market full of self proclaimed experts that unmercifully rip developers on every real or perceived flaw, the cost of computer upgrades to keep current and probably most important, the console explosion will keep new developers away from WWII PC flightsims.

Oh, Microsoft will probably trot out another modders wet dream sooner or later but when Oleg gets smart and goes into console only stuff to actually make some real money, I think we will see the end of serious WWII PC flightsim games.

But, if we can keep Oleg interested long enough for BOB to evolve into something akin to what IL2 has become, all will be well for a few more years.

And by then the consoles will probably have caught up with our little hobby.

I could be really wrong, the PC flightsim market has been repeatedly declared dead over the last decade but it is still alive, even if it is in the ICU

Oops, forgot to answer the question, sure I would find another flightsim if IL2 did not exist, in fact, I may find one even though it does, Shockwaves BOB might just fill a gap in the IL2 series while we wait for the next couple of years for Olegs BOB.

Two good sim/games are better than one.

Waldo.Pepper
05-20-2005, 08:22 PM
I think that we will never again see a game as comprehensive as Il2. I don't count cfs series as I don't think of it as a serious game. Like the previous poster said it is a modders wet dream.

Think about the quality and attention to detail we have. If as I understand it Oleg's BOB will have a smaller plane set - I think that this is it then. Il2 will be the all time high water mark.

Kind of sad really. Still I am eternally grateful for what we have been given. Thanks once again Oleg.

Chivas
05-20-2005, 08:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I think that we will never again see a game as comprehensive as Il2. I don't count cfs series as I don't think of it as a serious game. Like the previous poster said it is a modders wet dream.

Think about the quality and attention to detail we have. If as I understand it Oleg's BOB will have a smaller plane set - I think that this is it then. Il2 will be the all time high water mark.

Kind of sad really. Still I am eternally grateful for what we have been given. Thanks once again Oleg. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the BOB engine will actually be more comprehensive than the IL-2 engine. The Bob engine will encompass BOB, MAW, Pacific, Western and Eastern fronts etc. before its finished.

lkemling
05-20-2005, 10:46 PM
We'er number one we'er number one....90 % of you people make my *** tired with your constant yapping.Jeez' believe it or not,Despite what you clowns think.......the guy can'yt walk on f**king water!!

And I hereby happily bid you adiu!!

Chivas
05-20-2005, 11:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by lkemling:
We'er number one we'er number one....90 % of you people make my *** tired with your constant yapping.Jeez' believe it or not,Despite what you clowns think.......the guy can'yt walk on f**king water!!

And I hereby happily bid you adiu!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

don't let the door hit you in the @ss, on the way out

heywooood
05-20-2005, 11:35 PM
buying BoBII will help maintain the combat flight sim genre...for that reason alone. I will buy it.

Whats $30.00 give or take to someone that has spent what I have in hdwe/software on 1c.

If BobII is any good at all - I am that much better off...and if it is unplayable crizapp - well - at least I contributed to another flight sim developer.

Atomic_Marten
05-20-2005, 11:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by heywooood:
buying BoBII will help maintain the combat flight sim genre...for that reason alone. I will buy it.

Whats $30.00 give or take to someone that has spent what I have in hdwe/software on 1c.

If BobII is any good at all - I am that much better off...and if it is unplayable crizapp - well - at least I contributed to another flight sim developer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My thoughts exactly. While IL-2 http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Atomic_Marten/Smileys/biggrinlove.gif will be No#1 untill MaddoxBoB arrives, it is still good to support other projects as much as we can. You know being a HC flight simmer and stuff.

And in spite the fact that I will probably play BoB2 for a few days and then back to FB/PF.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v442/Atomic_Marten/Smileys/windows.gif

John_Stag
05-21-2005, 03:18 AM
I played Rowan's original on which WoV is based. Yes, the aircraft look deinitely primitive compared to 1c's offerings, but you have to bear in mind that a typical BoB mission could have, literally, hundreds of aircraft in the air at the same time. Sacrifices had to be made somewhere, and that was it.

Unfortunately Rowan's BoB was also as buggy as hell. BDG went a long way in rectifying some issues, but others which I consider important were sadly lacking. R-BoB had so much potential though. I expect greater things from WoV. BTW, the White cliffs were in the original, so I'd expect to see them in the sequel/finished product.

But one serious bummer though; I've heard rumours that the multiplay is incomplete; and that to me defeats the whole object of such a sim.

But I'll shell the money out to see what they got while I'm waiting for 1c's BoB. I may be missing something good if I don't.

Enthor1
05-21-2005, 07:51 AM
Ikemling, just in case you did not really go away, Yes he can if it is frozen.

lkemling
05-21-2005, 10:53 AM
If its frozen its not water,it ice.

nearmiss
05-21-2005, 11:40 AM
I think there is just a lull in the production of Combat Flight Simulator software now. Afterall, when the biggest player in the business pulls out(M$FT) the flags go up for anyone thinking of producing a CFS. IMO, M$FT made a huge blunder not just by improving the CFS2. Think about it, if you were thinking of producing a sim that might cost $500,000 in the US for development you'd probably look at other projects. If I were putting down the big bucks I'd probably look at hotter prospects for getting a return on my investment. I'd say most business people wouldn't be arrogant enough to say..."M$FT couldn't make it, but I sure can".

The future is bright. Think about it...New physics engines, graphics and other high quality, yet efficient development tools are becoming available now, which will make building a CFS simpler and better than anything we've known.

You couple those benefits for developers with the presentation of their products...3D type monitors in the works now. Wow! the prospects are great.

Let's not get down about this. If you're reluctant to accept what I mentioned just start some Google searches "Game Development", if you know what you're reading you'll be blown outta your socks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

An aside note --&gt; Oleg has already started to produce or otherwise sell his virtual aircraft to other developers. The ability to purchase completed ones and zeros of competent FM and DM for aircraft is a big plus. Considering terrains, mesh and maps are currently available via GPS type sources. Recently, on these boards I saw links for a physics engine just for fires.

All these things take a lot of time consuming redundant work out of producing a CFS.

Again, I say the future prospects are bright for CFS. I'm excited about the future. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

DuxCorvan
05-21-2005, 12:26 PM
http://photo.jamyewaxman.com/albums/GayDaveandChaunce/Dsc02673.sized.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
05-22-2005, 01:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I think that we will never again see a game as comprehensive as Il2. I don't count cfs series as I don't think of it as a serious game. Like the previous poster said it is a modders wet dream.

Think about the quality and attention to detail we have. If as I understand it Oleg's BOB will have a smaller plane set - I think that this is it then. Il2 will be the all time high water mark.

Kind of sad really. Still I am eternally grateful for what we have been given. Thanks once again Oleg. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the BOB engine will actually be more comprehensive than the IL-2 engine. The Bob engine will encompass BOB, MAW, Pacific, Western and Eastern fronts etc. before its finished. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I too am certain that the BOB engine will allow all sorts of wonderful things... but if what Oleg has said is true... namely that BOB will have less cockpits of greater detail.... then I don't think anyone (unless they are living in a fantasy world) can even hope for as large a planeset that we curently enjoy. Therefore Il2 was the highpoint. (please note all the if's in my statement). we'll see... but I am pessimistic. I have no interest in BOB if it has a limited flyable planeset. I like the large planeset.

Akwar
05-22-2005, 03:28 PM
Being a fan of the first BOB and still playing it I might add I will definately be buying BOB Wings of Victory when its released.

At the end of the day I dont buy a game or sim for its looks,I buy it for its playabilty.I could also care less about online play.

Chivas
05-22-2005, 04:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Chivas:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
I think that we will never again see a game as comprehensive as Il2. I don't count cfs series as I don't think of it as a serious game. Like the previous poster said it is a modders wet dream.

Think about the quality and attention to detail we have. If as I understand it Oleg's BOB will have a smaller plane set - I think that this is it then. Il2 will be the all time high water mark.

Kind of sad really. Still I am eternally grateful for what we have been given. Thanks once again Oleg. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the BOB engine will actually be more comprehensive than the IL-2 engine. The Bob engine will encompass BOB, MAW, Pacific, Western and Eastern fronts etc. before its finished. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I too am certain that the BOB engine will allow all sorts of wonderful things... but if what Oleg has said is true... namely that BOB will have less cockpits of greater detail.... then I don't think anyone (unless they are living in a fantasy world) can even hope for as large a planeset that we curently enjoy. Therefore Il2 was the highpoint. (please note all the if's in my statement). we'll see... but I am pessimistic. I have no interest in BOB if it has a limited flyable planeset. I like the large planeset. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Il-2 orginally was only going to have one aircraft and developed into IL-2/FB/PF. If there is enough interest Oleg suggested that the sim will evolve into BOB/MAW/PF/EF/WF which in the end will probably have more and better aircraft than the orginal series. Also BOB will come with aircraft from the 1939 Fall of France and Poland.

LEXX_Luthor
05-22-2005, 07:05 PM
nearmiss:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The future is bright. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I always said, Microsoft bounced from the combat flight sim market signals the Re~Birth of the combat flight sim genre.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The bitter Old Timer flight simmers seem Proud to be part of a "dying genre" or "small genre" as they proudly call it.

Charlie901
05-22-2005, 07:15 PM
Personally, I'm really looking forward to Falcon 4.0 AF.

This alone will hold me over for quite a while:

http://www.lead-pursuit.com/index.htm

DuxCorvan
05-23-2005, 05:07 PM
I buy everything with a WW2 plane in the box, since ever. That has made me very popular at home. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif