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View Full Version : Put VERY politely, things that Oleg's team should fix



XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:17 PM
IL2 FB is the only flightsim on the market at the moment worth having, and that is very high praise.

Unfortunately, and the unfortunatelys are few and far between, there are some SERIOUS game feature flaws which are going to cause me to stop playing the game because they are beginning to annoy me that much.

Last night I repeatedly tested the German Fw190 and Bf109, and a few other planes. I looked at their top speeds given in the 'view objects/aircraft' section, and noted the given top speeds at altitude, usually 5500m.
I was gobsmacked to find that not one single airoplane would go at the given top speed, no matter what complex engine settings were used. The given top speeds (which are also IRL top speeds) were 100s of kph different from the ones of the planes on IL2 FB!

On an online game I also found by flying the Hs129 that it goes 510kph in level flight at sea level. The given speed is 380kph! No wonder Those ground attack planes can overtake me in a Bf109.

Other things that could be changed are...

1. Planes just dissappear off the runway when they land now we have the patch. It was 10 times better when they realistically stayed on the runway so they could be destroyed, and more fun, you could have pitched ground battles between gunners of bombers when planes of different armies were forced to land on the same strips. It was cool.

2. The Me262 can no longer turn. Just accidentally kcocking the stick a little bleeds of all of its speed totally. Theres no point in flying it anymore with the patch. Its cool though that its guns are as powerful as its rockets, no matter how unrealistically pointless it makes carrying rockets.

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 02:17 PM
IL2 FB is the only flightsim on the market at the moment worth having, and that is very high praise.

Unfortunately, and the unfortunatelys are few and far between, there are some SERIOUS game feature flaws which are going to cause me to stop playing the game because they are beginning to annoy me that much.

Last night I repeatedly tested the German Fw190 and Bf109, and a few other planes. I looked at their top speeds given in the 'view objects/aircraft' section, and noted the given top speeds at altitude, usually 5500m.
I was gobsmacked to find that not one single airoplane would go at the given top speed, no matter what complex engine settings were used. The given top speeds (which are also IRL top speeds) were 100s of kph different from the ones of the planes on IL2 FB!

On an online game I also found by flying the Hs129 that it goes 510kph in level flight at sea level. The given speed is 380kph! No wonder Those ground attack planes can overtake me in a Bf109.

Other things that could be changed are...

1. Planes just dissappear off the runway when they land now we have the patch. It was 10 times better when they realistically stayed on the runway so they could be destroyed, and more fun, you could have pitched ground battles between gunners of bombers when planes of different armies were forced to land on the same strips. It was cool.

2. The Me262 can no longer turn. Just accidentally kcocking the stick a little bleeds of all of its speed totally. Theres no point in flying it anymore with the patch. Its cool though that its guns are as powerful as its rockets, no matter how unrealistically pointless it makes carrying rockets.

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 05:12 PM
What did you think of the Hs~129 cockpit? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

I-153 biplane out turns my Me262 jet. I want my money back!


Microsoft_FanBoy::
-- IL2 FB is the only flightsim on the market at the moment worth having,...

-- ...there are some SERIOUS game feature flaws which are
-- going to cause me to stop playing the game
-- because they are beginning to annoy me that much.


Awww, no more flight sims for you then...unless...

here ya go ---> http://www.microsoft.com /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


_________
"S!" is for See ya!

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 06:35 PM
Remember that indicated air speed must be corrected for density altitude to give true airspeed. (simplified)

A chart for this is on the CD.

If you hit CTL F1 you will see a digital readout in TAS.
These are typically very close to published figures. Hope this helps.

The 262 was designed as an interceptor. The R4M rockets were to be used in a salvo against U.S. bomber formations. And yes, the 30mm MK108 are deadly.

To score against fighters in the 262, one extends in the horizontal to acheive turning room. Then begin a shallow climb, becoming progressively steeper as you bleed off airspeed. No sudden stick movements in the Scwalbe!

When you are comfortably above your prey, put your lift vector on him, and GENTLY pull. Don't forget to lead the target. One or 2 well placed rouns will suffice.
S!
Chris

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-13-2003, 09:51 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yzkbg

The thread with some answers for the initiator of this post /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
measure ye mete, it shall be
measured to you again.

http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/templates/subSilver/images/logo_phpBB.gif (http://acompletewasteofspace.com/forum/index.php)

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 03:09 PM
Talking about IAS in this game is a joke! The main factor affecting IAS is the wind, tailwind, headwind or crosswind.
There is no wind in FB, thats why there are no windsocks at airfields, that why take and especially landing is so unrealistic, you lower the flaps- there seems to be some increase in lift but no corresponding increase in drag. Wind is a crucial factor in glide angle, but the aircraft in FB seem to zoom along in a flat glide forever.
Last od all the lack of wind is why you can peer out of your buffeted cockpit in a thunderstorm and see those ridiculous vertical columns of smoke.

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 05:02 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- Talking about IAS in this game is a joke! The main
- factor affecting IAS is the wind, tailwind, headwind
- or crosswind.


I am sorry to say flapbuster, but you are incorrect. IAS is based on the air density corresponding to the change in altitude, not headwinds and tailwinds. IAS won't change, the airplane doesn't know it has a headwind. It will fly, for example, 150kts IAS in a stable, trimmed flight attitude no matter the wind. As altitude increases, air density decreases thus decreasing the airflow through the pitot tube, and this creates an IAS which is less than true airspeed. Headwinds and tailwinds only affect ground speed, not IAS.

Please do some reasearch on this before posting inaccurate information.

XyZspineZyX
09-14-2003, 06:46 PM
Surely you can grasp that if you have a TAS of 300mph into a 20mph HEADwind the IAS will be 320mph.
Similarly if you have a TAS of 300mph into a 20mph TAILwind the IAS will be 280mph.
Oh and TAS is the IAS divided by the squre root of the realtive density - of a flight simmers skull/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 01:38 PM
thank you Chris! Your reply was very helpful. Silly me I should've had more respect for the FB team's abilities. Like I've said before this is still the best game in the world, even though it does have lots of real mistakes in it.

Lexx's comment about the Hs129 didn't answer anything for me though. I understand we are not supposed to fly the Hs129 which is why it doesn't have a cockpit, but it doesn't change the fact it flies too fast making it more deadly to dogfight it than it should be.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:31 PM
hs129 have always been cannon fodder for me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:56 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- Surely you can grasp that if you have a TAS of
- 300mph into a 20mph HEADwind the IAS will be 320mph.
- Similarly if you have a TAS of 300mph into a 20mph
- TAILwind the IAS will be 280mph.
- Oh and TAS is the IAS divided by the squre root of
- the realtive density - of a flight simmers skull/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
-
- Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement
- the pith of which is lost in repetition.

Same engine power settings= same IAS regardless of which direction drift is. That's why they need radar feedback to get ground drift, you can't get wind indications off airspeed driven instruments.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:20 AM
~S!


flapbuster wrote:
- Surely you can grasp that if you have a TAS of
- 300mph into a 20mph HEADwind the IAS will be 320mph.
- Similarly if you have a TAS of 300mph into a 20mph
- TAILwind the IAS will be 280mph.
- Oh and TAS is the IAS divided by the squre root of
- the realtive density - of a flight simmers skull/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
-
-
- Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement
- the pith of which is lost in repetition.

Flapbuster, Waterinthefuel is correct. You are confusing Ground Speed with IAS and TAS, the latter have nothing to do with wind. In order to calc GS you have to first arrive at TAS, and of course know the winds aloft at your altitude.



BPO5_Jinx
C.O. Replacement Air Group
Birds of Prey. 16th GvIAP
http://www.birdsofprey16thgviap.com
http://www.soaridaho.com/Schreder/RS-15/N50GL.html

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:15 AM
Whats the difference between TAS & ground speed?

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:13 AM
S! flapbuster,

I'm no expert, but the gist of the matter is:


TAS = True Air Speed = the speed of the aircraft with respect to the air

GS = Ground Speed = the speed of the aircraft with respect to the ground

If there is zero wind speed then TAS = GS.

IAS = Indicated Air Speed = the reading gained from the pitot tube, which must be corrected for altitude/density/temperature etc to convert to TAS.


Cheers,
IV/JG7_4Shades

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:55 PM
FourShades wrote:
-
- S! flapbuster,
-
- I'm no expert, but the gist of the matter is:
-
-
- TAS = True Air Speed = the speed of the aircraft
- with respect to the air
-
- GS = Ground Speed = the speed of the aircraft with
- respect to the ground
-
- If there is zero wind speed then TAS = GS.
-
- IAS = Indicated Air Speed = the reading gained from
- the pitot tube, which must be corrected for
- altitude/density/temperature etc to convert to TAS.
-
-
- Cheers,
- IV/JG7_4Shades


One more thing, IAS is also affected by the angle of attack. The angle that the air enters the pitot tube will effect the reading inside the cockpit. It gets more pronounced at lower airspeeds.


Flapbuster, you can in theory have a TAS of 100kts and a ground speed of zero. TAS is only the speed through the air. Air is a liquid, it moves. Get caught in the jet stream, and you can have a TAS of 100 and a ground speed of 300.

I'm a full scale pilot, and it still confuses me. Your not alone.


Message Edited on 09/16/0308:06AM by waterinthefuel

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:27 PM
LEXX_Luthor wrote:
- What did you think of the Hs~129 cockpit? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif
-
- I-153 biplane out turns my Me262 jet. I want my
- money back!
-
-
- Microsoft_FanBoy::
--- IL2 FB is the only flightsim on the market at the moment worth having,...
-
--- ...there are some SERIOUS game feature flaws which are
--- going to cause me to stop playing the game
--- because they are beginning to annoy me that much.
-
-
- Awww, no more flight sims for you
- then...unless...
-
- here ya go ---> http://www.microsoft.com /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
-
- _________
- "S!" is for See ya!
-
-
-
-
-



Try Fly B1, fly like a space shuttle

anda me262 its a joke /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-17-2003, 03:21 PM
Thanks for the comments everyone... I used to be an aircraft fitter once and its been a long time since I had to think about this stuff, the analogy I was taught is to imagine a model aeroplane flying up and down inside a railway carriage that is moving along a track. The air inside the carriage is always moving in one direction -the plane moves relative to that air- thus far a glimmer of comprehension. Its the realationship between TAS and ground speed that confuses me, I thought they were the same thing and if I do understand,,, pauses..thinks....then my first assertion still holds????!!!!
Otherwise why would landing and taking off into wind be so important.IAS is all the pilot cares about, but for navigation ground speed must be known and that presumably is when wind comes into the equation.
Actually this has got a bit out of hand I just wanted a vehicle to complain about those terrible verticle columns of smoke which I think look rally naff.
Tomorrow we will discuss dihedral and its' effects on longitudinal stability...coff.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 04:22 PM
how about more obvious things like:

1) The game will occasionally freeze for 10 seconds and then recover.

2) Track replays are still get out of synch on timing and you wind up with planes shooting at empty air.



<center>http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/images/trackwerks400.jpg (http://smack.telecom.ksu.edu/il2/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-18-2003, 09:18 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- Its the realationship between TAS and ground speed that
- confuses me,

No they are not. Indicated speed is gotten by a measuring device (usually a thing like a barometer only a bit different, it's called a pitot) that loses accuracy as the air that the plane moves through gets thinner. The loss is precise enough to chart though, an old pilots' formula from WWII is 2% less for every 1000 ft. In reality it is not linear but still close to that, IIRC from long ago.

IAS is best to have when flying anyway. You wings are running in the same thinner air that the airspeed guage is so IAS at different altitudes will get you closer to the same relative flight performance than any other guage you've got.

IAS - Indicated Air Speed
TAS - True Air Speed

Both are air speed, relative to the wind not the ground.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 04:42 AM
OK.
I spent 10 minutes looking this up and it seems that:

IAS is pressure felt at the pitot head ( balanced by static vent presure)

TAS is IAS corrected for altitude ( 2% per thousand feet)

Ground speed is TAS corrected for wind speed ( subtract headwind speed - add tailwind speed)

Does anyone know if the atmosphere modelled in FB conforms to the International Standard Atmosphere?

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:46 PM
Hmmh. How is this too difficult to understand? "wind" is only air movement in relation to ground. Airspeed and Indicated Airspeed are movement in relation to AIR. It really doesnt matter how fast the wind blows since all it does to an aeroplane is change its speed in relation to ground, not air.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 01:53 PM
go boil your head

Tedious unoriginal philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-19-2003, 02:05 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- go boil your head
-

Nice attitude. Is it because you failed to understand a basic grade-school-level issue? Just joking, going to "boil my head" now. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif