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dingsi
09-24-2007, 08:30 PM
Hi all,

I assume people have all seen this video?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffIuFecRHSk

Kinda scary, and it opens up alot of new possibilities.

Skycat_2
09-24-2007, 08:37 PM
Interesting. I suppose that if the pilots could be armed this could turn into an improvised infantry game.

My guy would be armed with cannons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

slo_1_2_3
09-24-2007, 08:52 PM
uh-oh

flox
09-24-2007, 09:17 PM
Woah, wth? Can anyone verify the legitimacy of this? Is that pilot actually controlled by the player or is it just a clever edit/manipulation of the game?

Lead-Brick
09-24-2007, 09:45 PM
Also, check out the aircraft, a MS 406 with fully detailed cockpit?!?!

Could this be some test stuff from an early Theatre of War engine? or maybe even an abandoned project?

Odd but interesting

FritzGryphon
09-24-2007, 09:54 PM
This is an old thing from that hacker guy. The cockpit is from the B-239.

F&*(er should be arrested. Every time this happens MG and crew have to change the encryption for the game.

dingsi
09-24-2007, 10:05 PM
Yeah, as I said, really scary. I just stumbled upon by accident. I'm just really hoping that Oleg introduces some extra encryption to stop this stuff from happening. Even if it delays 4.09

heywooood
09-24-2007, 10:25 PM
hahaha another haxor thread....


we're waiting who knows how long for a word on the SoW project and peeps are coming in here and spearing UBI with hax, no wonder they have a gag on the new sim

old or not its in bad form to link it here.

No doubt any new press info on BoB will not be found on this board...like most of the last new info we got regarding '46 or 4.08

sweet

slo_1_2_3
09-24-2007, 10:33 PM
That's why I said uh-oh.

heywooood
09-24-2007, 10:38 PM
uh-huh http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

dingsi
09-24-2007, 10:47 PM
Poofter

heywooood
09-24-2007, 10:52 PM
y'know with your pants down like that - you look like a girl.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

dingsi
09-24-2007, 11:29 PM
All i did was post a link to a youtube video. If MG / Ubi are that skittish about seeing something like that they should not be in business

rnzoli
09-25-2007, 03:05 AM
well, people like those hackers can actually drive MG out of business with stuff like that, very simply

and I bet a lot of people support all those mods without thinking about this aspect

SeaFireLIV
09-25-2007, 03:52 AM
I posted once (about a year or 2 ago)about how neat it would be to be able to direct your pilot once he leaves his aircraft so that he can avoid running into things or perhaps just cross the border to friendly lines if close enough. It would be a real nice little touch to the pilot. I got no response. It would also be great to run to the aircraft on startup Battle of Britain style and you`d get a general view of the airfield and aircraft with you.

It`s a pity that it takes a hacker to do what Oleg could so easily do with perhaps a day spare.

Philipscdrw
09-25-2007, 04:22 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
I posted once (about a year or 2 ago)about how neat it would be to be able to direct your pilot once he leaves his aircraft so that he can avoid running into things or perhaps just cross the border to friendly lines if close enough. It would be a real nice little touch to the pilot. I got no response. It would also be great to run to the aircraft on startup Battle of Britain style and you`d get a general view of the airfield and aircraft with you.

It`s a pity that it takes a hacker to do what Oleg could so easily do with perhaps a day spare.

'So easily do'??

JG53Frankyboy
09-25-2007, 04:29 AM
remembering times when the pilots could explode planes when they run in them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

we had some fantastic explosion lines online in these days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

SeaFireLIV
09-25-2007, 09:33 AM
Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:


It`s a pity that it takes a hacker to do what Oleg could so easily do with perhaps a day spare.

'So easily do'?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, if a hacker can do it, then it seems pretty obvious to me that Oleg, owner of the actual program with the keys could quite easily make the necessary alteraction allowing the limited ability to leave/enter/walk around your aircraft with say a 50-foot radius of movement.

MEGILE
09-25-2007, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
remembering times when the pilots could explode planes when they run in them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

we had some fantastic explosion lines online in these days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Could sabotage a whole airfield with one pilot online. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Divine-Wind
09-25-2007, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by JG53Frankyboy:
remembering times when the pilots could explode planes when they run in them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

we had some fantastic explosion lines online in these days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Oh yeah. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

general_kalle
09-25-2007, 01:38 PM
Whoah http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

evrybody keeps telling the newcomers that stuff is hard coded and that there's no hope etc.

and then i see this.

1. Controlable pilot
2. Ability to get back into the plane after leaving it

3. cocpit for a plane otherwise unflyable.
stolen cocpit whatever i dont care.

you could easily find some cocpits that would go with other planes.

Like the brewster cocpit for MS.

or a me110 cocpit for the HS127
pe2 - Tu4
me110 - 210
Betty - Ki21
Ki27 - A4M or whatever its called, the small Japanese Carrier plane

could probably also easily find something for the Kate and the Jill

and so on,

Korolov1986
09-25-2007, 03:15 PM
Went to all that trouble to hack the pilot and didn't give him a thermonuclear rocket launcher with laser sighting?

What a lamer!

rnzoli
09-25-2007, 04:49 PM
What a lamer!
I know why. Did you notice the lack of self-esteem of that little pilot guy when standing still? He really looks like a loser! Probably thinks "oh, what am I doing here, running around this airplane I am supposed to pilot, while this fu$##$% hacker dude is trying to play Doom3 with me... this sux big time, i will start crying in any moment now, i wanted to be in the #1 combat flightsim and ended up in the #2456th first-person-shooter gamey instead???!!!"

It wouldn't be wise to give thermonuclear weapons to a guy like that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

bigbossmalone
09-25-2007, 06:33 PM
I just played a quick mission where I'm attacking a flight of 3 He-111's - I shot the lead Heinkel, he started veering off, crew bailing, one of the bailed crew fell onto the second Heinkel's port wing and neatly sheared it off, sending the second bomber to its doom. The bloke who hit the wing still opened his chute and parachuted to safety.
Ridiculous.
I support modding and I support IL2. I have an original copy of IL2 Sturmovik, Forgotten Battles, Ace Expansion Pack, Pacific Fighters, IL2 Complete Edition and 1946. Oh, I just bought a second copy of Forgotten Battles, just for good measure. The second disc of the first copy was acting up.I haven't even bothered Ubi looking for a replacement, I just went and bought it. I will buy SOW and all it's future expansions without blinking an eye.
I reckon this qualifies me as a pretty good customer. So if I'm not opposed to modding the darn thing, does that now make me a bad customer? I got the freakin sound mod that everyone's been making noises about, tried it out, it's cool, but no great shakes. I can't see what all the fuss is about, really.
Sorry, this post might not be too relevant to this thread, but here I was, and I just started typing...
Happy flying!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/1072.gif

heywooood
09-25-2007, 07:00 PM
its not an open source game so thats the difference.

If I buy FSX and want to mod the planes, the FM's the what have you its ok because that is M/S intent...they left that open and you are not breaking a trust.

on the other hand Il2 is not open source for the purpose of protecting its online competitive design...so even though you bought and paid for the game - you did not buy the rights to the code...and you broke the trust.

thats all there is - the trust - and a few simple tricks in the code to keep the accidental meddlers out...a determined hacker will bypass that stuff with some effort and break that trust without qualms because they don't understand what that trust is worth or what it means to the community as a whole.

You may not have broken the code - but you took the hack and then flaunted it here on the developers own boards....nice.

If you are standing on the street corner next to an old man and the traffic signal is red...do you shove him into oncoming traffic?

hopefully not....you could though, because there is only the rule of morality that says you should not (and the possibility of a lengthy jail sentence if you are caught)...but there is no fence or railing - just the trust that the rule is enough.

Breaking a trust is wrong no matter what the trust is...but most people don't even know what I'm talking about.

bigbossmalone
09-26-2007, 02:23 AM
YOur points all taken, heywoood, and you're right, maybe I broke 'the trust', but the 'trust' you mention feels a bit like 'the force' from Star Wars at the moment to me...
I'm just trying to get across my frustration with Ubi's continued silence here...
I've also NOT done anyone any harm, I don't even go online with the setup I mentioned, just tried it out of sheer frustration. When I go online, it's with my stock unadulterated version of the game, I'm not spreading anything bad around...I too, would hate to see this fine sim fall by the wayside due to inumerable hacks, or whatever, but we are discussing one side of a coin here. Do we not, as daily users of Ubi's forums, also contribute to their ongoing popularity? I mean, sure they're busy, but when lasat did you hear anything official from them? How much effort can it be to take a minute tell your customers whats going on?
Another point: Besides being a paying customer myself, I have personally convinced at least 5 other people to go out and buy 1946. So, I'm doing their sales work for them, as well.....hmmm, maybe I should ask them for a job, come to think of it.
I am constantly promoting their stuff - not just iL2, let's see, I also have Silent Hunter 3, 4, Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter, Far Cry, and Lord knows how many other Ubi titles (all originals,btw). I don't consider myself a hacker, but if the file I got contained some hack, and this IMPROVED my game experience, and although I'm talking about it, I'm not actually PROMOTING it, and I'm doing it for my own personal satisfaction, I still don't see the harm. Trust? Trust is a two-way street in my book, and Ubi must realise that their ongoing silence is bound to make people start losing that 'trust'. Another point I feel I need to make; a LONG time ago it was mentioned, I think, by none other than Oleg himself, that he would consider opening the code once they were done with iL2 - it seems that that day is not too far off now, and SOW will be their main focus. It has been 7 years now, and thats pretty long by PC game standards...the reason it might not be open yet is probably due to the ongoing, increasing popularity of iL2. Note how many threads have been popping up of late with people starting to contemplate the 'Dark Side'. To my mind, if Ubi were bringing something to the table, this kind of thing would not be happening, or at least it would still be contained to those dark recesses of one or two hack freaks who would hack anything and everything in sight, regardless. I have no doubt that the code will eventually be opened, hopefully in a limited degree, so as to retain the integrity of the game as much as possible.
Rant over. (takes a deep breath)
Ok, before this thread has to be locked, let's move on......
------
Back to my first point of my original post, any comments on the bailing pilot who plows off a Heinkel's wing and lives to open his chute, land, and run for cover?

bigbossmalone
09-26-2007, 02:58 AM
Originally posted by heywooood:


If you are standing on the street corner next to an old man and the traffic signal is red...do you shove him into oncoming traffic?



Actually, I'm the kind of guy who would help the old man safely across the street...
I have respect for my seniors.
At the moment, I worry that the owners of this forum are the 'old man', and that they might like to push ME into the street!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
Thats it for me on this thread, I'm not prepared to stir things anymore...think I'll go and play some iL2..

VonGrantoven
09-26-2007, 04:24 AM
Heywooood, while I can certainly understand your love of the game and appreciate your stalwart adherence to the ˜Trust', I can't help but find it a bit naïve.
Trust implies a sort of reciprocal partnership or shared responsibility, which as BigBossMalone points out, UBI is clearly not living up to with their lack of information.

You also lost me with your analogy of pushing the old man out in the traffic. I find that a bit silly. As far as I can see, nothing of what BigBoss was describing is either morally reprehensible, or legally actionable based upon the EULA.
Frankly, what you are berating him for is closer to him buying a blue Chevy and painting it candy-apple red.

The issue of hacker's messing with the code and possibly using it to cheat online is a totally different issue though. That definitely has implications that affect everyone who loves the game.
As to this, I think your solution that we should all put our heads in the sand, not talk about the issue and hope is goes away, is not only naïve, it is also counterproductive.
This vid proves that hackers do have access to the code.
From what I have read the programmer in question seems to be fairly scrupulous and has refused to disseminate it. However, you can be sure there are hordes of far less ethical folk who would have no qualms about cheating their tails off. Heck, they may even be doing it right now!
I believe putting up this type of thing draws attention to potential holes so that they may be dealt with.
Ignoring the symtoms of cancer will not protect you from the disease!

bigbossmalone
09-26-2007, 04:34 AM
Thanks for the support, VonG!!
Thought I was alone in my thinking there for awhile...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

VonGrantoven
09-26-2007, 04:37 AM
Np BigBoss!
I calls em as I sees em.

But aren't you supposed to be off shooting down 190's instead of skulking around here?

bigbossmalone
09-26-2007, 04:40 AM
Yes, indeed... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Popped back in quickly 'just to see..'
I have a weird fascination with these forums sometimes, but lo!
I'm definitely off for some QMB action now!
Catch ya later m8's!!
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

MEGILE
09-26-2007, 04:45 AM
If I can't wingwalk, I don't want it.

You can tempt me back with cheerleader skins however.

heywooood
09-26-2007, 06:50 PM
Originally posted by VonGrantoven:
Heywooood, while I can certainly understand your love of the game and appreciate your stalwart adherence to the ˜Trust', I can't help but find it a bit naïve.
Trust implies a sort of reciprocal partnership or shared responsibility, which as BigBossMalone points out, UBI is clearly not living up to with their lack of information.

You also lost me with your analogy of pushing the old man out in the traffic. I find that a bit silly. As far as I can see, nothing of what BigBoss was describing is either morally reprehensible, or legally actionable based upon the EULA.
Frankly, what you are berating him for is closer to him buying a blue Chevy and painting it candy-apple red.

The issue of hacker's messing with the code and possibly using it to cheat online is a totally different issue though. That definitely has implications that affect everyone who loves the game.
As to this, I think your solution that we should all put our heads in the sand, not talk about the issue and hope is goes away, is not only naïve, it is also counterproductive.
This vid proves that hackers do have access to the code.
From what I have read the programmer in question seems to be fairly scrupulous and has refused to disseminate it. However, you can be sure there are hordes of far less ethical folk who would have no qualms about cheating their tails off. Heck, they may even be doing it right now!
I believe putting up this type of thing draws attention to potential holes so that they may be dealt with.
Ignoring the symtoms of cancer will not protect you from the disease!


see - thats what I mean when I say you don't get it...

the Chevy analogy...see when you buy a Chevy - GM doesn't say or even imply that you can't paint it - it is yours when you buy it all the way.
Intellectual property is different, and this developer and this distributor have indicated that the software is copyrighted and protected...you buy the game - not the code.

Sure you can mod it for yourself - just don't go reselling (or distributing) the modified software - those rights are reserved for the developer (the artists who made it and their partners) and are not negotiable.

'Teaching them a lesson' is a rationalisation for hackers that break these laws...or the people that flaunt their work to make them feel 'justified' - 1c doesn't owe you anything and neither does UBI - you just don't like having to wait for information or patches or whatever you don't like waiting for.

I am glad that you seperate bodily harm from trafficking stolen or hijacked intellectual property but if a company can't float financially because so many people ignore these rights then you cause loss of employment and other kinds of harm to the good people doing honest work with your mislaid support of cheezy batages that suck the life out of them for personal agrandisemnet (or ill-gotten financial gain) with their abuse of this 'naive trust'

bigbossmalone
09-26-2007, 07:27 PM
I'm gonna butt in again here, heywoood -
Your points are all (basically) valid, but I'm standing with VonG on this one - you say he doesn't get it, then you go on about things which he never even mentioned! It appears to me, as much as you think he doesn't get it (and I think he does, although the Chevy analogy might not be 100% fitting, it's certainly more apt than your 'old man at the lights' analogy), neither do you 'get' what he's saying.
I'm not wanting to flame you here dude, I think I gave my standpoint pretty clearly, and you yours. Some earlier threads I was involved in were a lot more blatant, and have since disappeared - its a fine line I'm walking here, but I'll agree to disagree with you on this one, okay?
As a final note: A very important facet of any business is CUSTOMER SUPPORT. Ever heard of it? I'm sure you have - not too sure about the big UBI, though! The only people helping others on these forums, for example, are fellow users.
I say again, when last have you heard anything from them? Isn't this 'their' forum? I don't see them answering any of their customers queries here....bad business etiquette, in my book. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

heywooood
09-26-2007, 07:50 PM
and then you go on to blame UBI for some 'injustice' which is actually only a pure business decision on their part...I'm not crazy about it either, but its their business.

The real injustice is the illegal manipulation of their software and then bringing your dissatisfaction here in the form of a facewash for UBI ala Claude Lemieux

You don't like their information lockdown and neither do I - but thats where we go our seperate ways...you want to discuss or trade information on these hacks and you want to do it right here in their house.

It just isn't cool no matter what you think they 'owe' you...who the -f- are you?

VonGrantoven
09-27-2007, 02:49 AM
Hi Heywooood,
I appreciate that you feel very strongly about this issue, but I think that on some issues you may be slightly misinformed and on others you seem be misinterpreting things from my earlier post.
The Chevy example exactly mirrors what we are discussing here. You admit yourself that, "Sure you can mod it for yourself..." which is exactly what I was talking about. I am not talking about buying Chevys, reverse engineering them and painting them red then setting up my own factory and selling them as "VongG Specials".
Even GM doesnt give you this right. Modding a game you purchased for your own personal use, is exactly the same as painting your car in terms of copyright law.

As it happens, I have more than a passing familiarity with copyright law, and a considerable portion of my income is derived from royalties, so I am in no way advocating depriving developers/publishers of their due.

As to the next bit about "teaching them a lesson", I'm sorry, but you lost me there. I never mentioned this and I can't seem to see anything in other previous posts to which you could be referring.
If you were somehow referring to my earlier assertion that frank discussion of possible hacked code is better than just trying to cover it up and pretend in never happened, then I am afraid I must reiterate my support for this. Sticking ones head in the ground doesn't save ostriches, nor will it help stop hackers and cheating "bastages".

If you somehow interpreted that I was in support of people hacking the code, then I am afraid you are mistaken.

I do however, completely agree with you that neither Ubi, Oleg or 1C owe me, or any others on this forum anything beyond the game we purchased. I am more than happy with the deal, in fact.
While it would be nice (and probably sound customer relations) to get weakly updates on whats going on, I certainly don't see this as any sort of right.
Hope that clarifies my position.
Best,

bigbossmalone
09-27-2007, 03:47 AM
Originally posted by heywooood:
"and then you go on to blame UBI for some 'injustice' which is actually only a pure business decision on their part...I'm not crazy about it either, but its their business.

The real injustice is the illegal manipulation of their software and then bringing your dissatisfaction here in the form of a facewash for UBI ala Claude Lemieux

You don't like their information lockdown and neither do I - but thats where we go our seperate ways...you want to discuss or trade information on these hacks and you want to do it right here in their house.

It just isn't cool no matter what you think they 'owe' you...who the -f- are you?"
----------------------------------------------

...and my final 2 cents on this thread:
At what point, exactly, did I blame UBI for any injustice? - I'll quote from a previous post which has since been deleted: 'UBI don't owe us anything, but as a simple courtesy, not obligation - COURTESY - they could inform their potential customer base what's happening'
Whether they do this or not, as you say, is entirely their problem - one thing's for sure, in business, as long as you stay within the your own self-created laws, you can be as rude as you like. I see this in many businesses, UBI being but a drop in the ocean on this one.
I also don't feel I've bought any dissatisfaction here - I've stated that I'm unhappy about it, which I am perfectly entitled to do. Nobody, not even a supreme court judge, can tell me otherwise. Seeing as its their forum, they could theoretically tell me to shut up, which I am planning to do on completion of this post.
I also said I support modding -in general! Most developers actually don't mind this kind of thing, as it brings an added longevity to their product. I can totally see why UBI wouldn't want iL2 to be modded, and I agree with their thinking - for now!
I have at no point discussed the modding of, or traded any information of such mods, in this forum. Where did you get that idea?
What I said was, I found a sound mod on the NET (aka public domain), I tried it, and after using it for a day I'd almost forgotten about it, thats how big a deal it was...
I've never said, hey, everybody, do yourself a favor and rush out and look for mods!
If I broke any rules, I expect to be banned, simple as that!
The mere fact that I'm still here should tell you that I haven't done so - and the reason I'm discussing this here, is that I think UBI needs to know about this kind of sentiment, to give them a better idea of whats going on out here.
Cue VonG's ostrich analogy - they should be happy about it, they're big boys, and should be able to take criticism where due.
http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa226/bigbossmalone/myths_NGK0607_ostrich_lg.jpg
I like to keep things out in the open, rather than some form of subservise element prowling the net, making trouble.
So, as my contribution comes to an end, I see we've managed to keep it civil up until the end,where you suddenly reverted to a teenager with your final comment.
So, in my 3 years on this forum I have never insulted anyone in the slightest, even when disagreeing with them. All I can add to your final comment, then, is...who the -f- are YOU? to start shouting others down. We've all been more than civil up to this point, then you let your side down by going all teenager on us.
And, no, I'm not even going to reply to anything further you have to say on this subject, it seems like you don't get it either, hence the need to star getting abusive?
Have a nice day!
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ViktorViktor
09-27-2007, 03:48 AM
I would just like to remind everyone that we have gotten a ton of fixes and free add-ons (new planes, maps, etc.) from Oleg over the years.

Isn't that rather outstanding customer support ?

bigbossmalone
09-27-2007, 04:47 AM
You're quite right there, Viktor...
let me rephrase my part in that to 'public relations'...
and now, I bid this thread adieu!