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buttflop
08-04-2009, 04:55 PM
Hello everyone

I'm new to IL-2 Sturmovik, since I only just bought the 1946 edition last week. Since then I've been working hard on learning how to take off and land, which hasn't been easy, since I haven't actually played a real flight sim before. Bearcat99's guide and Zeus-cat's training campaign have been immensely helpful, and I'm now able to land the bf-109 almost every time. The joystick that arrived in the mail a few days ago helped as well.

However, being able to land I decided to go ahead and try some dogfighting, using the quick mission feature, and while I did manage to shoot down some bomber (I think it was a B-17, or something along those lines), I'm getting creamed time and again by a single rookie Yak-1 pilot. I guess my two main problems are that:

1) I can't keep track of the position of my enemy. Every time we pass each other, I lose him and find it near impossible to find him again (until he shows up right behind me, that is).

2) I can't hit him. This really sucks obviously. Maybe you can imagine my gloating as I have in my sights and get ready to fire, and maybe you can imagine my embarrassment and dissappointment as I miss (sometimes followed by me ramming into him, in which case I at least take him down with me).

As for the first problem, I've decided to get a trackir. I find using the mouse very cumbersome, and I don't find the hat switch of the joystick all that helpful. Hopefully being better able to look around will help me keep track of enemy planes.

The second problem probably means I need more training. However, I can't help but think that it may also be connected to the fact that I've ignored a number of controls, not being sure what they do and/or when to use them. I've tried looking around at the forum, but a lot of the posts seem to be directed at people who have experience with flight sims (people who knows what prop pitch is, for example). So I hope you'll all be overbearing, as I ask my noobish questions:

1) What is prop pitch? When should I use it?
2) When should I use the trim controls? I haven't really used them yet, but I'm guessing they're good for something.
3) I haven't been using flaps for anything but landing and taking off, but I'm assuming there are other uses, considering they have a combat setting. What's this good for? Are the other settings good for anything but landing/taking off?
4) How does the radiator work? I've noticed that (at least on some planes) there are 6 settings, ranging from closed to open. For instance, what is the difference between radiator setting 4 and 6?
5) One thing I never managed to do in Zeus-cat's campaign, was hitting any of the ships with the SBD-3. My dive bombing skills (like my gunning skills) seem to be wildly inaccurate. Can anybody offer any advice on this?

I've mainly been flying the Bf-109, so any help concerning that plane is very welcome.

Thanks in advance. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

PanzerAce
08-04-2009, 05:05 PM
1) With a 109, don't mess with the prop pitch, unless you decide you hate your engine.
2) the 109 doesn't have rudder trim, so you can pretty much ignore trim for it. Rudder is the most trimmed axis, since *most* planes will not roll either if you have the rudder trim setup right (I don't even have roll trim mapped). elevator trim I personally don't find very useful except for the P-38 and the jets.
3) Flaps can be tricky. Personally, I don't like losing the speed, but in a really tight, slow (sub 300KIAS) turning battle, popping them down to the "combat" setting can help (though I have mine on a slider, so I just deploy them as far as I feel).
4) with the 109, just leave it on the auto setting. For other planes though, what I generally do is cruise with the rads fully open, then when I enter combat, close them. Supposedly they do affect airspeed, but I've never noticed really...
5) There are a couple of ways to do it: go *past* the ship, roll over, and come back over it while you're diving. Advantage is that you see the ship the entire way down till you release as your nose passes the midpoint. Another way is to go into a dive before you are over the ship. The dive won't be as steep, it's easier to initiate, but on the other hand, you won't see part of the ship, and it can be harder to know when to release.

personally, for dive bombing, I find tipping over before I even get to the ship to be the most usefull. Generally dive bombers have a little window in the floor, when the ship passes OUT of that, that's when I initiate my dive.

Freiwillige
08-04-2009, 05:09 PM
On the BF-109 and FW-190 the prop pitch is automatic as it was during the war so no worries there.

Also the 109 has auto radiator settings so your good there

As for keeping tabs on the enemy I recommend that as soon as you lose sight of him hit the F6 key. That will put an outside view of your craft to his and you can use this view to maneuver in his direction. Once you do that hit F1 for cockpit and try again!

Freiwillige
08-04-2009, 05:15 PM
Radiators do slow you drastically, Ive tested it before.

You go faster with them closed or at 2 at 90% throttle then you do with them open at 110!

I always keep mine closed or at 2 and never throttle past 100% and never over heat!

Elevator trim is the most used FYI. Its useful for keeping your plane level so you aren't always fighting the aircraft wanting to climb or wanting to dive at speed changes and in the 109 it likes to be trimmed.

I will also tell you that the 109F thru G2 are the best 109s.

VW-IceFire
08-04-2009, 05:22 PM
I'll see if I can help.

1) Prop pitch is a complex issue when you compare the game versus real life. Its different depending on the plane your are flying. The Bf109 specific response is unless you really want to tweak the engine settings leave it on automatic. The 109 has an automated system that manages the prop pitch for the pilot...this is historical. Essentially its a setting that changes the angle of the propeller blades slightly and changes how the blades interact with the airstream. Thats the simplified answer. But really...just leave it at auto for now. It won't affect your gunnery especially and even the expert 109 pilots online tend to run on auto.

2) Trim controls should be used all the time. Any time its appropriate basically. With some fighters like the Tempest I find myself constantly trimming the plane. If you notice your plane having a strong tendency for the nose to rise and fall depending on your speed and power settings thats where trim comes in. Its critical for gunnery as if you're fighting the plane then its much harder to have smooth aim. Trim you NEED to master if you're going to be any good. In the 109 only elevator trim is important (to keep the nose from rising or falling) as the other two are pre-set before takeoff. In other types the elevator and rudder are important. In most US aircraft elevator, rudder, and ailerons can be trimmed.

3) Flaps in combat situations should be used sparingly. You'll often see some of the newer pilots who have just discovered flaps doing circles around at low altitude with their landing flaps out thinking that its doing them some good. But its not. Use combat flaps in a turn when you need a little bit of extra angle. You pay the price by loosing speed (which is essential) for a bit of extra angle...probably for a shot. My advice is to not get into the habit of using them and learn other techniques.

4) The radiator cools the engine. If its closed then its doing the least amount of good cooling the engine. If you begin to open it the numbers indicate how far you've gone. The more open it is the more cooling for the engine. This is balanced by the fact that a fully open radiator is going to cut your top speed and acceleration somewhat significantly (could be as much as 30kph off the maximum top speed) depending on the plane.

5) Practice is the best way. Basically you can line it up on a 90 degree dive and point the gunsight straight at the target or you can learn how to dive from an angle. If its a Ju-87D-5 Stuka, a Ju-88A-4, or a Ar-234 then there is the Stuvi bombsight which lets you dial in the release altitude and speed traveling for release. Then as you approach that altitude and speed a piper (arrow) appears and you just place the arrow on the bomb drop location and voila.

Dive bombing is a very complicated process to do right. If you're missing the mark don't be too surprised. Its not easy. Even when you are good at it...and I've practised for years...I can maybe put the bomb directly on target 1 in 8 times. Its closer to 1 in 3 times where I get a close proximity hit on a softer target.

I prefer skip bombing personally.

megalopsuche
08-04-2009, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
I will also tell you that the 109F thru G2 are the best 109s.

No way. Easier for a new pilot to fly, yes, but better? Not a chance.

Freiwillige
08-04-2009, 05:44 PM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
I will also tell you that the 109F thru G2 are the best 109s.

No way. Easier for a new pilot to fly, yes, but better? Not a chance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not just my opinion but many German aces historical opinion that the F series was the pinnacle of 109 evolution and the F4 being the best of the best. Anything later ballooned in weight for little gain.

buttflop
08-04-2009, 06:14 PM
Thanks for the help guys. I just managed to bag my first Yak-1. I nearly used up all my ammo, though. I think one of my aiming problems has to do with not giving enough/giving to much lead. Any tips for that?

The elevator trim helped. One question for trimming, though: don't you have re-adjust your trimming every time you change speed or altitude? That seems like a lot of work, if you're in the middle of a dogfight. Do you try to keep the speed constant in those situations, or are you able to multitask on that level? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Another question, which I forgot to ask earlier: Zeus-cat recommends setting the supercharger to level 2 at 8500 feet, using the SBD-3 in his campaign. I believe one of the tutorials in the game mentions 2500 meters, using a stuka. Is there any reason why you shouldn't do it at, say, 500 meters, if you want to climb as fast as possible?

@VW-IceFire: Sorry to sound stupid, but how exactly do you use the stuvi bombsight? Is it just shift+F1? In that case, I must've missed the option for setting drop altitude and speed.

Thanks again guys, this is really helping me out. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

SILVERFISH1992
08-04-2009, 06:18 PM
Wow, only 2 posts since 2007.

danjama
08-04-2009, 06:18 PM
Lead shooting will improve with practice. Soon it will be instinct.

Make sure your only giving short bursts.

And yes trim needs constant attention especially elevators, have them somewhere easy to reach.

With regards to Supercharger stages, a supercharger is a forced induction method. It isn't required to increase the supercharger speed at low altitudes because the engine is getting the right amount of air.

However, it needs to be stepped up at higher altitudes, where the air is thin, and is not introduced to the induction cycle so easily or readily.

VW-IceFire
08-04-2009, 06:30 PM
Originally posted by buttflop:
Thanks for the help guys. I just managed to bag my first Yak-1. I nearly used up all my ammo, though. I think one of my aiming problems has to do with not giving enough/giving to much lead. Any tips for that?

Two things help with gunnery accuracy:

1) Practice. On a good day I can peg a manoeuvring fighter with the first shot and rip him to shreds within the next couple of seconds on your typically armed fighter. On a bad day...its substantially less http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
2) Get really damn close to them. If you think you're close you probably aren't. I used to open fire in excess of 600 meters and try and peg them off at long range...this was stupid but I didn't realize that at the time http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Start firing at 300 meters or less (.30 on the icon).



The elevator trim helped. One question for trimming, though: don't you have re-adjust your trimming every time you change speed or altitude? That seems like a lot of work, if you're in the middle of a dogfight. Do you try to keep the speed constant in those situations, or are you able to multitask on that level? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yes you do have to trim often. In the Tempest I find myself trimming the rudder constantly to keep the plane in optimal configuration.


Another question, which I forgot to ask earlier: Zeus-cat recommends setting the supercharger to level 2 at 8500 feet, using the SBD-3 in his campaign. I believe one of the tutorials in the game mentions 2500 meters, using a stuka. Is there any reason why you shouldn't do it at, say, 500 meters, if you want to climb as fast as possible?

The best way to explain this in simple terms is that its like shifting gears on a car. One gear is good at one speed and another at another speed. With the supercharger the two stages are setup to be optimal at different altitudes. Setting it to stage 2 will be less effective at low altitude than stage 1. Stage 1 will loose effectiveness at high altitude so switch to stage 2 (or 3 if the plane has it).



@VW-IceFire: Sorry to sound stupid, but how exactly do you use the stuvi bombsight? Is it just shift+F1? In that case, I must've missed the option for setting drop altitude and speed.

Thanks again guys, this is really helping me out. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
You need to setup the bombsight controls for adjusting altitude (up and down) and speed (up and down). These apply to level bombers and to the Stuvi bombsight. The readme has some details on this as well.

buttflop
08-04-2009, 06:47 PM
So you do have to trim often. I was hoping there was some trick to make it simpler. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Wow, only 2 posts since 2007.

Yeah, when I tried registering to make this topic, it turned out my email was already registered. I guess I must've needed help with some ubisoft game in 2007 but changed my mind. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


Start firing at 300 meters or less (.30 on the icon).

What icon is this? I've seen it mentioned elsewhere.


Make sure your only giving short bursts.

I've been trying to that, since the plane starts to wobble a lot when firing prolonged bursts. My frustration often gets the better of me, though, and I just fire untill I'm empty. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Edit: When diving, I've noticed the stuka starts shaking violently at about 700 meters, which is usually right when I'm about to release my bomb. What's causing this? Am I doing something wrong, or is it normal?

idonno
08-04-2009, 06:58 PM
You can easily determine for yourself when to change supercharger stages by watching the manifold pressure. Note the manifold pressure when you set your throttle to climb power. When you see it drop, shift up to the next supercharger stage. Note the altitude and when you go below that altitude shift back down.

Freiwillige
08-04-2009, 07:56 PM
In real life if you shift supercharger gears at too low of an alt it will seriously overboost the engine and lead to major catostrophic failure quickly!

In IL2 if you shift to low it will damage the engine eventually and lead to overheating quicker.

Ba5tard5word
08-04-2009, 08:45 PM
Shooting takes practice. If I don't play Il-2 for a week or so and then go back to it, I stink at aiming until I get some practice.

Mainly you should try and get as close as you can and learn where you can and can't shoot your enemy and get damage. 0-300 meters is fine for shooting an enemy fighter, though it's best to be around 150 to 200. [.20 on your icon] Any closer and you risk crashing into him. Any further out and your bullets start to lose accuracy and hitting power.

Also I find the 109 is pretty tough to get a shot in unless you have a lot of practice--guns mounted on a plane's nose are centered in a much narrower area than wing-mounted guns. They're more accurate but it's also tougher to get a shot in.

mortoma
08-04-2009, 09:20 PM
Looks like all advice here has its merit except for someone saying never to throttle past 100%. On some planes this makes a bigger difference than others and you'll find yourself floundering in those planes because 99 to100% is just not enough in many combat situations. Some planes have almost no noticeable boost going past 100% and with some it's a huge difference. With planes that use MW-50 boost ( some of the later 109s ) you won't get any benefit at all from the MW-50 unless in fact you do go over 100%!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It does not kick in until 100%.

Adding a little bit of extra power can be a good thing even in planes where it's not so much of a boost. And if you use the 101 to 110% band judiciously ( in the planes that have it to begin with ) you will hardly have a problem overheating in most maps. On the Pacific maps that extra tropical temperature is modeled in the game so you'll have to be more careful, you'll overheat a bit more quickly. But even on Pacific maps you can use 101 to 110% easily if you know what you're doing. Maybe not everyone knows what they're doing??

na85
08-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
In real life if you shift supercharger gears at too low of an alt it will seriously overboost the engine and lead to major catostrophic failure quickly!

In IL2 if you shift to low it will damage the engine eventually and lead to overheating quicker.

I have never experienced engine damage due to having stage 2 supercharger running at low altitudes.

Waldo.Pepper
08-04-2009, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by na85:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
In real life if you shift supercharger gears at too low of an alt it will seriously overboost the engine and lead to major catostrophic failure quickly!

In IL2 if you shift to low it will damage the engine eventually and lead to overheating quicker.

I have never experienced engine damage due to having stage 2 supercharger running at low altitudes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A youngster called Harris from 1830 Squadron was flying high -about 23,000 feet----Over Brunswick town at noon. He was tearing along at high speed with full supercharger going. (This was a small turbine of bewilderingly high revolutions positioned at the rear of the power unit, which at high altitude forced the petrol/air mixture into the engine under very high pressure.)

Quite suddenly the engine packed in through failure of the ignition system. (Both magnetos were pressurized for high-altitude flying, but at this stage the pressurization system wasn't yet perfected.) Harris glided down to around 16,000 feet, a height at which the magnetos decided to recommence operating and the engine cut in again.

The boy had already committed himself to a searing and explosive death. At this moment he had split seconds to live. When the engine cut out, he had obviously forgotten to withdraw the supercharger. Now, as the engine, from inertia, burst into life again at a high throttle setting, the thrust exerted on the bearings of the supercharger was too much. The rear of the power unit completely destroyed itself, with hardened steel tearing through fuselage, cockpit, wings-and Harris.

Down in Brunswick it was lunchtime and the main street was as busy as a bee. In the centre of the roadway stood a policeman controlling a school crossing. He looked upwards, perplexed by a strange whining. With commendable alacrity he leapt back a couple of paces as a Pratt and Whitney engine, weighing around two tons, hurtled down from a bright blue sky to bury itself in the tarmac in front of him. Nobody was hurt, but the Corsair was scattered far and wide and the young pilot had virtually disappeared.

megalopsuche
08-05-2009, 12:07 AM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
I will also tell you that the 109F thru G2 are the best 109s.

No way. Easier for a new pilot to fly, yes, but better? Not a chance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not just my opinion but many German aces historical opinion that the F series was the pinnacle of 109 evolution and the F4 being the best of the best. Anything later ballooned in weight for little gain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 109F-4 is a ~385mph fighter.
The 109K-4 can attain 440mph at 22k ft.

If that's little gain, then I'd be very happy with it. Part of the reason for the 109F-4's great reputation was that the Spitfire V was the lowpoint of the series.

Freiwillige
08-05-2009, 01:28 AM
Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by megalopsuche:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Freiwillige:
I will also tell you that the 109F thru G2 are the best 109s.

No way. Easier for a new pilot to fly, yes, but better? Not a chance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats not just my opinion but many German aces historical opinion that the F series was the pinnacle of 109 evolution and the F4 being the best of the best. Anything later ballooned in weight for little gain. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The 109F-4 is a ~385mph fighter.
The 109K-4 can attain 440mph at 22k ft.

If that's little gain, then I'd be very happy with it. Part of the reason for the 109F-4's great reputation was that the Spitfire V was the lowpoint of the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

From the Emil series thru to the Freidrick series the 109 got faster, sleeker and more maneuverable. The F-0 had the same DB-601N motor as the E series yet could fly rings around an Emil since it was lighter and more aerodynamic.

The F-3 and F-4 had the DB-601E finally available and had added power. The F-4 had the MG-151 20MM center mounted for more firepower than earlier F models that carried either the MG-151 15mm or the MGFF20mm.

So their is the epitome of BF-109 devolpoment

"G series and the downward slide"
The Reichsluftministrum decided that the higher power output of the new DB-605 was needed in the 109 series. The DB-605 was built on the 601 and shared the same dimensions although the enige was heavier. Starting with an F model to build on Messerschmitt AG installed the heavier DB-605. Due to the weight increase of the Motor the motor mount had to be reinforeced which increased weight further. The wings had to be reinforced further which in turn increased weight and to top it off the landing gear was beefed up to handle the extra pounds. Pilots felt that this was a step backwards as maneuverability suffered from the increased wing loading. But the RLM looking towards the shifting conflict felt the change necessary.

By the time the G6 entered service the guns were upgraded from 7.9mm to 13mm over the cowling which further ballooned the weight on an already overweight 109 series.

Now from that point forward the 109 was put on a diet culminating in the K series. But one must remember that the G6 was the most produced and most used variant right up until the last days of the war far outnumbering the few K series that Germany's war torn industries could produce.

M_Gunz
08-05-2009, 04:47 AM
The 109F-4 was better suited as a late war fighter? I don't think so, it did not have enough speed or armament.

Freiwillige
08-05-2009, 05:20 AM
Now you know that is not at all what I am saying.

After the F series the 109s got faster sure, they got more punch sure, But they lost allot in other terms of performance.

Compare the F-4 to the G-6. Similar top speeds but the G6 has more punch with the 13mm but the F4 can turn tighter since it has a much lower wing loading.

Comparing the F series against its rivals it did well dominating most.

Compare the G Series against its rivals and its worse off.

They made only a few G6\As, G-10 and K series compared to the 12,000 G6's which was over 1,000 lbs heavier than the F4.

obviously late war a K4 or a G10 would be the better choice for the simple power and speed.

Friendly_flyer
08-05-2009, 05:39 AM
Trust an innocent newbies question to end in a heated debate on the relative performance of two well matched fighters...

MD_Titus
08-05-2009, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
Trust an innocent newbies question to end in a heated debate on the relative performance of two well matched fighters...

G-2 is better than F-4. same armament, better engine, better climb rate.
G-6 and onwards was a bloater.

megalopsuche
08-05-2009, 08:56 AM
I'll take the G-6 over the G-2 or F-4 any day. The ability to kill with a short burst outweighs the drawbacks, especially vs the F-4. If you're relying on horizontal turns, you're doing it wrong. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Anecdotes about what pilots prefered are fine, but remember that some didn't want to trade in their I-16 for a Yak, or prefered .30 cals to HS cannon, or thought a closed cockpit was a really bad idea. Pilots become attached to a plane and *anything* else is going to be inferior.

Zeus-cat
08-05-2009, 07:04 PM
For dive-bombing I found that you need to line up on a ship at high altitude. If you are making a lot of correction during your dive you will almost certainly miss the ship. If you are not lined up I recommend very gentle rudder correction spread out over a few seconds to correct your aim. A sudden movement of the rudder will ruin your dive. You should also hold your dive with no course corrections for several seconds before you release your bomb.

buttflop
08-06-2009, 07:26 AM
Originally posted by Zeus-cat:
For dive-bombing I found that you need to line up on a ship at high altitude. If you are making a lot of correction during your dive you will almost certainly miss the ship. If you are not lined up I recommend very gentle rudder correction spread out over a few seconds to correct your aim. A sudden movement of the rudder will ruin your dive. You should also hold your dive with no course corrections for several seconds before you release your bomb.

Alright, thanks. I've been having trouble with keeping the plane steady during dives. Maybe I should start a bit higher, so I have better time for aiming. It seems to be near impossible to keep a stuka steady, once you hit a height of about 700 meters, though. It just starts shaking uncontrollably, just for a second or two, but it's enough to screw up my aim. Is this normal? Should I drop the bomb before I reach 700 meters?

I loved your Back to the Farm campaign, btw, I would have taken a lot longer learning how to land, without it. It should have been included with the original game, instead of the landing tutorials. It would've been nice with a specific dive bombing mission, though, where you started the mission ready to dive, although I realize that the aim of the campaign is learning to take off and land (you did include dive bombing, after all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

I have a few more questions, concerning navigation. When flying missions, I'm always a bit in the dark as to where I'm supposed to go. The guy on the radio seems to just shout vectors out at random. What are these vectors?

When I ask for a vector to my target, I assume that the answer is a vector from my plane to the target, and not from my home base to the target. Would that be correct?

I've noticed that the arrow on the compass seems to point to my target. Would that be correct? What if the plane doesn't have a proper compass, but one of those ball-thingies (like the bf-109e4, for example), do you just do without the arrow?

Urufu_Shinjiro
08-06-2009, 12:18 PM
Originally posted by buttflop:
It seems to be near impossible to keep a stuka steady, once you hit a height of about 700 meters, though. It just starts shaking uncontrollably, just for a second or two, but it's enough to screw up my aim. Is this normal? Should I drop the bomb before I reach 700 meters?

Are you using the dive brakes?

M_Gunz
08-06-2009, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by Freiwillige:
Now you know that is not at all what I am saying.

After the F series the 109s got faster sure, they got more punch sure, But they lost allot in other terms of performance.

Compare the F-4 to the G-6. Similar top speeds but the G6 has more punch with the 13mm but the F4 can turn tighter since it has a much lower wing loading.

Comparing the F series against its rivals it did well dominating most.

Compare the G Series against its rivals and its worse off.

They made only a few G6\As, G-10 and K series compared to the 12,000 G6's which was over 1,000 lbs heavier than the F4.

obviously late war a K4 or a G10 would be the better choice for the simple power and speed.

That's just the thing. By mid to late war what it took to make the 109 suited to the combat environment as it
became did load the airframe down and cut into certain qualities of performance in order to enhance the speed
and firepower necessary to not become obsolete.

It is a relatively small plane. Much of the competition was bigger from the start and had room to put more in.

As for turn and climb at lower speeds (more in turn than climb), even the 109K-4 beats P-51 and P-47 models though
not the Spitfires or P-40 and P-39 but it does beat those at high speeds which is what counted more and more.

What can I say? The airframe was best suited to the speeds and needs of the earlier part of the war and beyond that
the FW and the jets were really the better answers but the jet program was delayed twice early on as it was. The
Heinkel 280 might have been ready for prime time by 1943 otherwise, lucky for the world it was not.

The Nazi leadership was a bunch of short-sighted, greedy lunatics that I might call that lucky because they made
their own failure but really it was a very mixed bag of luck because without them there would have been no war
**until** Stalin, an even bigger and greedier lunatic was ready to roll over Europe some time around 1950 by his plan.
But the Japan had kicked their own war off in 1937, who knows how things would have gone and what state of action
the US, British Commonwealth and Europe would have been ready for either enmeshed or finished with Japan by 1950?

LOT of what-if there, make one heck of a game! What if Germany had never listened to Hitler and his goons? What
if France had not taken Alsace-Lorraine or the crushing repatriation that caused the misery made it possible for
Hitler to come to power? What alliances would have been made first to address Japan taking over the Pacific and
then in the face of the Bear, armed stronger than at the end of WWII?

K_Freddie
08-06-2009, 02:53 PM
Buttflop: Get hold of the 'Cockpit Guide'..(sorry have no link) It's a document on the pit instrumentation on most, if not all, planes.

This will help make it easier to understand what's in front of you.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

K_Freddie
08-06-2009, 03:04 PM
IL2 has a wide variety of options that make it easy for the 'new guy' to adjust the difficulty settings as he becomes more competent. It is more difficult 'flying a computer' than a real aircraft, but a computer is more forgiving http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Start with the easy settings (we all did) then change these as you improve...

The 'Art of the Dogfight' is in your brain.. with practise you will develop a mental picture of what's going on around you. The trick obtaining picture clarity is to stay calm, thinking 2-3 moves ahead of your current position - then bob's your aunty.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

M_Gunz
08-06-2009, 05:20 PM
Disc 2 of the IL2:1946 set has the official "Aircraft Guide.pdf" with much information on every plane.
I would have liked more but it is better than nothing and if you have the DVDs then you have it already.

Tully__
08-06-2009, 05:52 PM
1) What is prop pitch? When should I use it?
In the 109, leave it alone. For more information, see http://www.warmkessel.com/jr/flying/td/jd/16.jsp

2) When should I use the trim controls? I haven't really used them yet, but I'm guessing they're good for something.
Any time you're flying a constant flight condition (cruise, long steady climb, long steady descent...) use trim to reduce how much control input you need to maintain that flight condition. On the 109 you only have elevator trim so you'll only be able to minimise the amount of fore/aft stick movement required to maintain your current flight mode.
Any time you change speed or throttle setting, you'll find it useful to re-trim.
Trim controls take a long time to respond and settle, so apply trim in small doses then wait several seconds to see the effect.

3) I haven't been using flaps for anything but landing and taking off, but I'm assuming there are other uses, considering they have a combat setting. What's this good for? Are the other settings good for anything but landing/taking off?
You don't need flaps for anything else and I don't use them on takeoff either except when taking off from an aircraft carrier. You can use them to tighten a turn some when turning hard at low speed however you pay a penalty in extra drag. If you want to try this it's best to only use them at less than 300km/h (not the 300 knots mentioned above).

4) How does the radiator work? I've noticed that (at least on some planes) there are 6 settings, ranging from closed to open. For instance, what is the difference between radiator setting 4 and 6?
The radiator/cowl flaps control is there to control how much air flows through the radiator or over the engine cooling fins. Higher number is more open, more open is more cooling but at the penalty of more drag and reduced top speed. For the 109, it has an auto setting and that's generally all you need.


5) One thing I never managed to do in Zeus-cat's campaign, was hitting any of the ships with the SBD-3. My dive bombing skills (like my gunning skills) seem to be wildly inaccurate. Can anybody offer any advice on this?
Practice, record the results and play them back. Practice more.

Zeus-cat
08-06-2009, 08:21 PM
Originally posted by buttflop:
Alright, thanks. I've been having trouble with keeping the plane steady during dives. Maybe I should start a bit higher, so I have better time for aiming. It seems to be near impossible to keep a stuka steady, once you hit a height of about 700 meters, though. It just starts shaking uncontrollably, just for a second or two, but it's enough to screw up my aim. Is this normal? Should I drop the bomb before I reach 700 meters?

I loved your Back to the Farm campaign, btw, I would have taken a lot longer learning how to land, without it. It should have been included with the original game, instead of the landing tutorials. It would've been nice with a specific dive bombing mission, though, where you started the mission ready to dive, although I realize that the aim of the campaign is learning to take off and land (you did include dive bombing, after all http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif).

I have a few more questions, concerning navigation. When flying missions, I'm always a bit in the dark as to where I'm supposed to go. The guy on the radio seems to just shout vectors out at random. What are these vectors?

When I ask for a vector to my target, I assume that the answer is a vector from my plane to the target, and not from my home base to the target. Would that be correct?

I've noticed that the arrow on the compass seems to point to my target. Would that be correct? What if the plane doesn't have a proper compass, but one of those ball-thingies (like the bf-109e4, for example), do you just do without the arrow?


As has been previously posted you need to use dive brakes when dive-bombing. Throttle back to zero as well. If you have changed supercharger settings I change them back to the low altitude setting as soon as I throttle back.

I have 2 dive-bombing campaigns you can play - "Straight Down" and "Straight Down Some More". That's why the training campaign doesn't really have a lot of attack missions in it.

I try to get to 11,000 to 12,000 feet if I am dive-bombing. Anything less than that and I have trouble setting up the attack against ships. Attacking ground targets is probably more easily accomplished in a more shallow dive.

You will hear a lot of vectors being called out on a mission. Many of them do not apply to you. You are hearing the leaders for all of the flights calling out instructions to their flights. The best thing to do is ignore them. Use the mini-map, or if you want more realism take notes on where you neeed to go from the briefing screen before the mission starts.

When you ask for a vector to anything in the game it is based on your position and the your destination. If the vector given to you is 090 degres, turn to 090. All vectors on the radio are given in the nearest 30 degree multiple. If the actual direction you need to fly is 193 the radio will give you 180. Therefore, it is advisable to ask for vectors every few minutes if you don't know where the target is. As you get close to the target the vector might change radically as you could actually fly by it and suddenly the target is behind you.