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texhill88
07-28-2006, 02:24 PM
In early 1941 russia and germany sealed a pact of economic agreement in the aggrement russia would send germany oil products,grain,rubber,manganese,chromium, and other industrial raw materials. In return germany would send german machine tools to re- equip the soviet unions out of date factories. So why would germany attack russia when russia was helping them so much?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

texhill88
07-28-2006, 02:24 PM
In early 1941 russia and germany sealed a pact of economic agreement in the aggrement russia would send germany oil products,grain,rubber,manganese,chromium, and other industrial raw materials. In return germany would send german machine tools to re- equip the soviet unions out of date factories. So why would germany attack russia when russia was helping them so much?? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

WB_Outlaw
07-28-2006, 02:32 PM
I haven't spent a lot of time researching the subject but I believe it was mostly for the Russian oil fields. Why be dependent on someone else selling you oil when you can just take it and control the supply yourself? Also, the fascists hated and feared communism.

--Outlaw.

mandrill7
07-28-2006, 02:48 PM
Geez, why did the Germans do ANY of the crazy stuff that they did in WW2??!! Basically they were following Hitler's pseudo-scientific ideas for establishing racial and cultural world hegemony. These ideas maintained that the Slavs were somewhat sub-human and that the Aryan races needed expansion space which could only be obtained by exterminating the Russians and Ukrainians and seizing their land and resources.

Hitler's ideas are thought today to have been a little off-base and erratic.

StG2_Schlachter
07-28-2006, 03:11 PM
I guess everybody had his own reason, for joining the military at that time if the were not forced to do so.

Not everybody was a Nazi at heart at that time.

Read "Mein Kampf". Hitler always wanted war in the "East". It was a personal demon for him.
And if you didn't know: Communism was the nemesis of fachism.

crazyivan1970
07-28-2006, 03:18 PM
You mean Molotov Ribbentrop`s pact from August of 1939? Big games, big politics. War would happened anyways, if Hitler did not start invasion, Stalin would.

leitmotiv
07-28-2006, 03:32 PM
Hitler was well aware that Stalin's cooperation was based on weakness. The Soviet armed forces were in a period of transition. First and foremost they were trying to repair the damage of losing thousands of capable and experienced officers to executions and imprisonment thanks to Stalin's manner of enforcing his will on the military. Next, the army and the air force were replacing 1930's technology with advanced equipment such as the T-34 and KV tanks. They were involved in a huge training program, and the new equipment was just starting to be stockpiled. Stalin did not want war in 1941 at any cost. He fervently believed he could sate Hitler's appetite for oil and raw materials by cooperating with him in the meantime. The evidence points to Stalin believing he could have his reckoning in 1942 or later when he would attack the Nazi empire with overwhelming strength.

Hitler wanted to enslave and murder the people of the Soviet empire and repopululate the land with Germans. This was his declared and published intention since the 1920's. Hitler saw Communism as a threat to the West, and he fervently believed the people of the Soviet lands were sub-humans only fit for slave labor and eventual execution. This was Hitler's great plan for enlarging the Nazi empire and giving it the oil and raw materials it needed to be strong.

Stalin was no fool. He knew the Nazis and the Soviet empire could not coexist. Each planned to destroy the other. Hitler, who believed correctly the Soviet armed forces were in disarray after their pathetic showing against Finland in 1939, wanted to hit while the Soviets were weak. His plans were upset by the German General Staff underestimating the strength of the Red Army by millions, by Stalin's new equipment, by the expertise of Soviet commanders, and by his own dreadful policies which made it clear to all who came under the German heel in the East their lives were worthless to the Nazis.

For books on this topic see David Glantz' enormous contribution to the West's understanding of the German-Soviet War.

carguy_
07-28-2006, 03:34 PM
^Thus he bought himself at least 18months before reds reached Berlin.

p1ngu666
07-28-2006, 03:50 PM
i dont think the russians would of attacked so soon.

leitmotiv, u underestimate the colosal effort of the soviet people http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

it was a war of annaliation, the damage to the russia and the east was huge. and hitler planned to turn moscow into a huge lake http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

slipBall
07-28-2006, 03:55 PM
It was all about land, and the natural resourses found there. Room to grow, and prosper

leitmotiv
07-28-2006, 04:14 PM
Much of that colossal effort was due to love of Mother Russia and much of it was due to the threat of a bullet from the NKVD, p1ngu666. In the case of Stalin's Soviet Union it is very hard to separate one from the other. See Simonov's great novel THE LIVING AND THE DEAD.

p1ngu666
07-28-2006, 04:19 PM
i know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

but what they achived, is amazing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif, especialy when u consider the conditions, both politicaly, and also the weather, the destruction etc..

alot of roman stuff was made by slaves, still amazing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

leitmotiv
07-28-2006, 05:10 PM
As Simonov shows, the monumental triumph of the people of the Soviet Union was against Hitler and often despite the policies of Stalin. Like the great ace, Khan, who was fighting at the front while his family was deported from their ancestral land to the interior by a Stalin edict. Truly one of the greatest triumphs against adversity of any people in the history of mankind!