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HotelBushranger
06-24-2006, 08:32 AM
http://www.archive.org/details/Dividean1943_3 15 minutes, 424 MB max.

A movie about the German invansion of the Low Countries. Very fascinating, depressing sometimes (the Germans bombed Rotterdam after they surrended unconditionally and killed 30,000 in 90 minutes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif). Very insightful.

jensenpark
06-24-2006, 10:30 AM
I was reading in a (rather dry but intersesting) book called "war diaries of the luftwaffe" where it claims the bombing was an error - a result of screwed up communication between ground and aircrew.

something along the lines of a signal of purple smoke from the ground meant to call off the attack, but the lead He111 missed the signal, and so on.

In no way should such a screw up excuse the barbaric action - but I found it interesting one of the first major mass civilian bombings was (possibly) an error.

I'd dig it out, but I leant the book to Dubbo - who reads rather slow so I don't expect to get the book back for a long time.

Although a dry read - it is interesting for contradicting some conventional wisdom - especially during the Polish invasion.

russ.nl
06-24-2006, 03:27 PM
Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I'm downloading it now.
They even have IL2 movies on that site http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=ww2

carguy_
06-24-2006, 06:07 PM
Wow something I always wanted.

Any more sites with WWII archives?I`m interested in German propaganda the most.

StG2_Schlachter
06-24-2006, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by jensenpark:
I was reading in a (rather dry but intersesting) book called "war diaries of the luftwaffe" where it claims the bombing was an error - a result of screwed up communication between ground and aircrew.

something along the lines of a signal of purple smoke from the ground meant to call off the attack, but the lead He111 missed the signal, and so on.

In no way should such a screw up excuse the barbaric action - but I found it interesting one of the first major mass civilian bombings was (possibly) an error.

I'd dig it out, but I leant the book to Dubbo - who reads rather slow so I don't expect to get the book back for a long time.

Although a dry read - it is interesting for contradicting some conventional wisdom - especially during the Polish invasion.

it WAS an error/screw up of communications. Rotterdam was a fortified city and was a legal target. It's cruel indeed, but they could have surrendered the city much earlier.

carguy_
06-24-2006, 08:27 PM
Aaah,the international law expert speaks again!
Why don`t you just copy/paste the fragment of the document you base your "legal" words on,huh?

brimigus
06-24-2006, 08:55 PM
Thats a text book whopping.they may have been nazis but thats how it should be done i guess.unrepentant and unmercifull, wonder if we took that kind of fight to terroists there still would be any left.

Waldo.Pepper
06-24-2006, 10:26 PM
I was reading in a (rather dry but intersesting) book called "war diaries of the luftwaffe"


That's an excellent book!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0306806045/qid=1151209...ks&v=glance&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0306806045/qid=1151209565/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6455446-7015944?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)


As for the documentary it is Allied wartime propaganda, using footage captured from the Germans. If you are looking for German footage in its original format search the internet (the p2p part of the internet) for Die Deutsche Wochenschau.

I am not trying to minimize the civilian suffering, but can anyone confirm the figure of 30000 death in 90 minutes? I think that this is inflated. I don't remember the Luftwaffe being able to cause that high a level of casualties against Britain, not even on a raid like Coventry. I do remember reading that the RAF attack on Hamburg caused the same amount of deaths as during the entire Blitz. I shall find a reference for that.

zugfuhrer
06-25-2006, 02:58 AM
Here comes some additional information about the air attack on Rotterdam.

On the evening of 13:th of may German ground forces had reached the outskirts of Rotterdam but hasn€t established contact with the paratroopers that held the Willembridge over the Maas since the 10:th of may. An attack with armour and infantry was planned to establish contact with the paratroopers.
The attack included air-attacks at 15.00 made by KG 54.

At the same time there was negotiations about capitulation with the commander in Rotterdam.

The attack should be aborted with red flares from the ground forces.

At 14.15 Luftwaffe was contacted and ordered to postpone the attack because the negotiators thought that the Dutch was about to surrender.
But the bombers were already airborne.
Colonel Lackner, the CO never got the message, according to the court hearings about war crimes.
The air attack was planned to be done in two phases on from east and the other from south.
During the in-flight the crews where ordered to look for red flares.
If red flares were to be seen they should attack their secondary targets at Antwerpen.

Several attempts where made to contact the bombers.
The ninth armoured division under the command of general Schmidt and the airborne forces under the command of general Kurt Student ordered their units to fire red flares.
The bombers was concentrated to the preparations of bombing and the air was hazy and filled with smoke from several fires, and the Dutch AAA fired at them so they didn€t saw the red flares.
The eastern attack came first. During the last phase of the bombing run Lackner ordered his bombardier to bomb.
After a short moment he saw red flares and gave the order to abort the attack, but 50% of the bombers of the first wave dropped their bombs and following wave got the order and attacked their secondary target. It wasn€t any firebombs Used at Rotterdam but some bombs hit a supply for vegetable oil, which caused a very big fire.
1000 Dutch citizens were killed and 78000 lost their homes.
Sources
Tamelander Michael Battle of Western Europe. Historical Media Lund 2002
Bekker, Cajus The luftwaffe war diaries.Air forces in World war II, Da Capo press Inc 1994.

JG52Karaya-X
06-25-2006, 03:07 AM
Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I was reading in a (rather dry but intersesting) book called "war diaries of the luftwaffe"


That's an excellent book!

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0306806045/qid=1151209...ks&v=glance&n=283155 (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0306806045/qid=1151209565/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/104-6455446-7015944?s=books&v=glance&n=283155)


As for the documentary it is Allied wartime propaganda, using footage captured from the Germans. If you are looking for German footage in its original format search the internet (the p2p part of the internet) for Die Deutsche Wochenschau.

I am not trying to minimize the civilian suffering, but can anyone confirm the figure of 30000 death in 90 minutes? I think that this is inflated. I don't remember the Luftwaffe being able to cause that high a level of casualties against Britain, not even on a raid like Coventry. I do remember reading that the RAF attack on Hamburg caused the same amount of deaths as during the entire Blitz. I shall find a reference for that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Strike out 2 zeros and I guess your closer to the real figures.

HotelBushranger
06-25-2006, 04:13 AM
Cheers for clearing that up zugfuther http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

The saddest scene for me is seeing the injured children.