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Flying_Buddha
02-21-2006, 05:32 PM

Flying_Buddha
02-21-2006, 05:32 PM

Wilburnator
02-21-2006, 11:37 PM
I have a Westinghouse 30in wide screen LCD HDTV that has a 16 ms response time. Oddly enough, I have no ghosting problems, with one exception. Red target info from other nearby aircraft and against a very dark background, such as water at dusk, or a night sky will occasionally have a slight green shadow. It's not consistent, and it happens rarely and only for a moment or two and it's gone. This a non issue for me. I also play GT Legends, Counter-Strike Source and Quake 4 with zero ghosting.

Obviously lower is better, but I have no problems with a 16 ms monitor. My friend's wife is a long time gamer and she decide to go out and get what she thought would be a great flat panel for gaming, a 19in 4 ms Samsung, and it ghosted like crazy. I was at their house watching her try some of the very same games I play and it looked horrible. Every moving figure on screen had a little green double following it around, until that figure stopped, and the two images would merge until the figure moved again. It was very distracting and it rendered the game pretty much unplayable for her. She took it back and got a 23in widescreen 15 ms LCD HDTV (also a Samsung) and it worked perfectly. The difference really was like night and day.

I don't know why a monitor with a 4ms response time would have bad ghosting issues when two monitors rated at 4 times the resonse time would not, but that was the case in this instance.

HotelBushranger
02-22-2006, 01:53 AM
What's ms? I have an LCD but no idea was ms is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Krizz1972
02-22-2006, 02:05 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HotelBushranger:
What's ms? I have an LCD but no idea was ms is http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

response time in ms. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

JG54_Arnie
02-22-2006, 02:15 AM
milli seconds.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif So, the theoretical time in between the pixels refresh on the screen, as far as I know. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I have a samsung SyncMaster 171s with 20ms response time. It ghosts a little bit, but I took it over from a friend for little money. So I'm quite happy with it. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WOLFMondo
02-22-2006, 02:33 AM
Remember, when you look at response time of an LCD/TFT, thats its best response time it can do, it doesn't always work at that stated lowest response time, its like a CRT saying it can do 120hz refresh rate when in reality at an acceptable resolution its probably doing 100hz at best.

An 8ms response time LCD/TFT will go up to 16 or so but you won't experiance ghosting with that sort of spec TFT.

If you want a good 19" TFT, After allot of research and reading allot of reviews I bought a Hyundai L90D+. It has an 8ms response time but does colour very nicely but also does black remarkably well, better than the 3 Iiyama workstation CRT's I have at home.

My only advice is read allot of reviews and read up on LCD/TFT technology to understand it some more so when you do buy one your know what your looking at, ignore CRT die hards, I used to be one, we don'tknow what were talking about and are living in the pasthttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.

HotelBushranger
02-22-2006, 03:45 AM
I dunno what ms I have, but I have quite annoying ghosting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif so I'd put the response time quite low.

Vacillator
02-22-2006, 04:42 AM
I didn't know the value for my AOC720 so I Googled it. I was kinda shocked to read a review which says it's 30ms! The odd thing is, I have never noticed any ghosting in FB/PF. Perhaps it's just me, or would something else prevent it (like the graphics card, although it's 'only' a 9800XT)?

WOLFMondo
02-22-2006, 05:14 AM
Your GFX card won't speed up the response time on a TFT/LCD. Its a limitation, like CRT refresh rates.

diablo_1917
02-22-2006, 05:24 AM
I have an Acer AL1912 with response time between 6ms and 10ms. I get ghosting with movement of mouse pointer, but in game cant notice it really, except for when its snowing and I'm using free view with the mouse. I'm still using MX440 graphics card lol don't know if that has any impact on ghosting.

-HH- Beebop
02-22-2006, 05:53 AM
I've been looking into getting a TFT after being a "CRT diehard". True, TFT's used to be famous for ghosting in games but it is becoming less frequent.
When considering a TFT and it's response time, ask if the response time is based on white to black or grey to grey. Many TFT's report ultra fast response times by only revealing the Grey to Grey response. That is only a variation in brightness. white to black is the pixel going from full on to full off. 16ms white to black is quite good and you shouldn't have any major ghosting issues. If the response time is based on grey to grey ghosting can be anywhere from annoying to unwatchable.
At this time I shy away from anything that reports less than 8 ms as they have been, in my experience, been based on grey to grey timings.

SweetMonkeyLuv
02-22-2006, 08:32 AM
Bought myself a 20" widescreen Dell UltraSharp (2005fpw was the model #, I think). I believe its rated at 8 or 12ms.

In any case, its been great. No ghosting at all in IL2, or any other game I've played.

TgD Thunderbolt56
02-22-2006, 10:44 AM
I bought a Samsung 192N 19" LCD when they were first introduced almost 2 years ago. It had a 25ms response time and my images are quite good. Undoubtedly, a lower response time is better, but even the 20ms option in the poll should be fine for the average gamer.

I think native resolution is more relevant than response time what with all the new wide-screens and such, but that's just me.

TB

MagnumHK
02-22-2006, 02:44 PM
Wilburnator, it appears your friend's Samsung 19" 4ms monitor was defective in some way. Mabey rough handling during shipping etc.

HDTV's should be much worse for response time than 4ms 19" LCD computer monitors. All reviews I've read support this.

I was seriously thinking about a 32" HDTV widescreen until I found this out. Also the the high price eventually slapped me back to reality. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

Flying_Buddha
02-22-2006, 09:17 PM
Thanks everyone who has voted and posted, this thread has been very helpfull to me so far.

I'm really liking the look of the Dell UltraSharp 2405FPW 24" Widescreen LCD.

It has a response time of 12ms (grey to grey) And every review I've read says great things about this monitor.

Anyone got one of these? If so, what's it like for playing PF and other games with?

VW-IceFire
02-22-2006, 09:21 PM
Its gotta be 8ms or less if you want it to look reasonably close to what a CRT can do. Although there is no straight comparison, a CRT is going to "sort of" be in the 1/2ms range effectively (in terms of the human eye, technology wise...well forget that).

Also, be looking for a contrast ratio better than 1000:1. Most of the new LCD's just hitting the market now are above that range...not for the cheapies...but for the decent to excellent LCD monitors and the sort that you'd play games on.

ATLAS_DEATH
02-22-2006, 09:24 PM
I used to notice a green shadow when playing certain games in 16bit mode.. switching to 32bit got rid of this..

Also.. I believe 12 has no ghosting noticable to the eye... atleast 99% ... while 16ms may be more like 93% ...

My current Westinghouse 19in LCD trash has a 21ms ... the ghosting can sometimes be hard during long distance IDing and/or when the plane is traveling fast and you are trying to track it quickly... however.. my old Samsung 17in said it had a 23-24ms repsonse time and it had less ghosting than this 21ms... go figure.. I needs to upgrade...

Basicaly I would say.. get 12ms.. anything faster only get if there's a nice deal going on...

ATLAS_DEATH
02-22-2006, 09:26 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MagnumHK:
Wilburnator, it appears your friend's Samsung 19" 4ms monitor was defective in some way. Mabey rough handling during shipping etc.

HDTV's should be much worse for response time than 4ms 19" LCD computer monitors. All reviews I've read support this.


I was seriously thinking about a 32" HDTV widescreen until I found this out. Also the the high price eventually slapped me back to reality. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought all the HDTV LCD's had a repsonse time of 8ms or lower... atleast that's what I read.. it said they were in most cases always lower than monitors... well comparing and average tv to an average monitor that is.

TAW_Oilburner
02-22-2006, 10:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -HH- Beebop:
I've been looking into getting a TFT after being a "CRT diehard". True, TFT's used to be famous for ghosting in games but it is becoming less frequent.
When considering a TFT and it's response time, ask if the response time is based on white to black or grey to grey. Many TFT's report ultra fast response times by only revealing the Grey to Grey response. That is only a variation in brightness. white to black is the pixel going from full on to full off. 16ms white to black is quite good and you shouldn't have any major ghosting issues. If the response time is based on grey to grey ghosting can be anywhere from annoying to unwatchable.
At this time I shy away from anything that reports less than 8 ms as they have been, in my experience, been based on grey to grey timings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. There is no "industry standard" measurement for response times, every manufacturer does their own thing. The initial measurement was white to black, but some manufacturers measured grey to grey, while others have less "brightness" so it's easier to go black to white.

Here's what I do:

Go to a store where you can play with the monitor, then change the screen background to black. Open up notepad and drag it around the screen real fast..this will show you the level of ghosting you'll get. Since almost no game has white streaking across black, it will never be as bad as it is when dragging notepad around.

-HH- Beebop
02-22-2006, 10:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAW_Oilburner:
...Here's what I do:

Go to a store where you can play with the monitor, then change the screen background to black. Open up notepad and drag it around the screen real fast..this will show you the level of ghosting you'll get. Since almost no game has white streaking across black, it will never be as bad as it is when dragging notepad around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Oilburner. Since very few (read none) stores have IL-2 set up on a computer I was wondering how to test for ghosting. A plain, straightforward method that makes sense. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif