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View Full Version : They didn't call them "Butcher Birds" for nothing



chris455
12-08-2005, 08:11 PM
I recently purchased a book entitled "Encylopedia of Aircraft of World War II". Has some very interesting articles on nearly every combat AC of the war. Of particular note is an article describing how the Fw-190 came to replace the Stuka in the air to ground role, the evolution of the F model and the techniques used by the Luftwaffe for ground attack employing the Wurger.

For attacks against armor, the SC250 was used (when available) in the following manner:
Approach @ 300mph, descend to 30' (that's 30 FEET) and release when the T-34 disappeared under the nose of the plane. A 1 second delayed fuse allowed the Focke Wulf to escape intact, provided the pilot stayed low.

I was so intrigued after I read this that I jumped right into an F8 model 190 laden with an SC250 in the sim and went tank hunting over Smolensk. I followed the described technique exactly, and in 1 or 2 QMBs I was destroying T-34s with direct hits with almost boring regularity. I even rippled a pair of SC50s into two Soviet light tanks and torched them both!

Gotta hand it to those Luftwaffe types, this cannot have been for the faint of heart in RL.

Also kinda neat is the fact that the sim is modelled closely enough to RL to allow us to replicate an authentic WWII Tactic.

Again, great job Oleg and Co! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

waffen-79
12-09-2005, 03:03 AM
ditto http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

chris455
12-09-2005, 08:27 AM
Waffen_79, what movie is your Stahlhelm babe from ??? Me likey. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Philipscdrw
12-09-2005, 09:10 AM
This is why FB is the best.

TC_Stele
12-09-2005, 09:49 AM
Awesome find. I'll try that out myself. Sounds very essential for those wanting to get the last few ground tank targets in online maps.

Fartiepants
12-09-2005, 01:25 PM
chris455.
The name of the movie if I'm not mistaken is Downfall.

Best regards,
Fartiepants

uberchuckie
12-09-2005, 02:28 PM
How accurate is the ground vehicle damage model? I seem to recall setting japanese tanks on fire with just the 0.50cal guns on the A-20. I suppose 0.50cal AP rounds should penetrate lightly armoured vehicles.

berg417448
12-09-2005, 02:31 PM
Many people would say that Japanese tanks do qualify as lightly armored vehicles.

Rattler68
12-09-2005, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by berg417448:
Many people would say that Japanese tanks do qualify as lightly armored vehicles.
Rgr that! A Japanese tank is more akin to a heavily armoured tin can!

GR142_Astro
12-09-2005, 02:51 PM
Wow, in 8 easy steps we arrive at the doorstep of the .50 cal vs armor debate.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

chris455
12-09-2005, 04:12 PM
@ GR_142 Astro: Let's hope nobody mentions the word "Tiger" !

@ Fartiepants: Yes, I remember now. I saw the movie with English subtitles. Thanks!

Sintubin
12-09-2005, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by chris455:
Waffen_79, what movie is your Stahlhelm babe from ??? Me likey. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


Der untergang

actionhank1786
12-09-2005, 05:21 PM
Did you guys know that in WWII Allied pilots would bounce their rounds off the asphault up into the bottom of tiger tanks
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

p1ngu666
12-09-2005, 06:46 PM
think it was similer method of attack for other aircraft, problem is tanks seem so small ingame..

chris455
12-09-2005, 07:07 PM
Originally posted by actionhank1786:
Did you guys know that in WWII Allied pilots would bounce their rounds off the asphault up into the bottom of tiger tanks
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

FORUM FOUL! !!! 40 YARD LINE !!!! NUMBER 1786 ACTION HANK !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

darkhorizon11
12-11-2005, 10:12 PM
Thanks for the advice I'll try that!

As for the chick what she has in beauty is lost in pretty much everything else (at least her character in the movie)...

LEBillfish
12-11-2005, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by actionhank1786:
Did you guys know that in WWII Allied pilots would bounce their rounds off the asphault up into the bottom of tiger tanks
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I heard it was actually not the .50 calibers yet .177 cal. pellet rifles and BB guns they used to accomplish that......The Daisy Red Rider was KING!!!!............pity it put so many peoples eyes out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

chris455
12-11-2005, 11:14 PM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:

I heard it was actually not the .50 calibers yet .177 cal. pellet rifles and BB guns they used to accomplish that......The Daisy Red Rider was KING!!!!............pity it put so many peoples eyes out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

May be, but it was the .50s they were really scared of. Here's proof:

http://members.cox.net/miataman1/Tiger123_03%20copy.bmp

Now, the Red Rider BB gun, when mounted on the P-38, was truly a war-winning weapon. I've met many an Axis veteran with a glass eye who still shudder at the mere mention of the "Augen zerstorer". http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritzofn
12-12-2005, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by actionhank1786:
Did you guys know that in WWII Allied pilots would bounce their rounds off the asphault up into the bottom of tiger tanks
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


u DO know that the famous pic of a turned over Tiger is actually a Tiger, but tipped over by the 15" guns of a battleship...
no info here about tipping/killing crew by shooting .50 in the ground...


BUT, the US and British called most german tanks Tigers, espesially the PZ IVF2 and later, as it's sillouete can resemble a Tiger, so there "MIGHT" have been some cases of PZ IV's beeing flipped or crew's killed, but i highly doubt it.


40-60% of german tanks kiled by planes did so due to rockets...as is the case of Wittman's tiger, 007, witch recived a Typhoon's rocket, direct hit in the engine room....

Fritzofn
12-12-2005, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Fritzofn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by actionhank1786:
Did you guys know that in WWII Allied pilots would bounce their rounds off the asphault up into the bottom of tiger tanks
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


u DO know that the famous pic of a turned over Tiger is actually a Tiger, but tipped over by the 15" guns of a battleship...
no info here about tipping/killing crew by shooting .50 in the ground...

http://pedg.org/panzer/public/website/tiger.htm



BUT, the US and British called most german tanks Tigers, espesially the PZ IVF2 and later, as it's sillouete can resemble a Tiger, so there "MIGHT" have been some cases of PZ IV's beeing flipped or crew's killed, but i highly doubt it.


40-60% of german tanks kiled by planes did so due to rockets...as is the case of Wittman's tiger, 007, witch recived a Typhoon's rocket, direct hit in the engine room.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Vipez-
12-13-2005, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by Fritzofn:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by actionhank1786:
Did you guys know that in WWII Allied pilots would bounce their rounds off the asphault up into the bottom of tiger tanks
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


u DO know that the famous pic of a turned over Tiger is actually a Tiger, but tipped over by the 15" guns of a battleship...
no info here about tipping/killing crew by shooting .50 in the ground...


BUT, the US and British called most german tanks Tigers, espesially the PZ IVF2 and later, as it's sillouete can resemble a Tiger, so there "MIGHT" have been some cases of PZ IV's beeing flipped or crew's killed, but i highly doubt it.


40-60% of german tanks kiled by planes did so due to rockets...as is the case of Wittman's tiger, 007, witch recived a Typhoon's rocket, direct hit in the engine room.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

actually even at this day nobody knows for sure, what eventually killed Witman's tiger.. some say it was Canadian' Sherman Fireflys, some say it was Typhoon' rockets of the RAF, some say it was American P47 dropping bombs.. Guess we will never know for sure http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif