PDA

View Full Version : IL2 harder than PF?



tljack.71
06-13-2006, 10:14 AM
Well, maybe this don't apply to all of you with the merged sim, but as of yet I still have PF and IL2 as separate sims. It seems IL2 is considerable harder to play with all the settings very close to the same on each.

I am a super-rookie so both are challenging to say the least, but in IL2 I can barely shoot down a bomber from 20 paces... at least in PF I can knock down a fighter or two sometimes. Also the planes seems harder to control. Am I crazy?

Also, I noticed in IL2 the enemy planes will come straight at me guns a blazin'. Quite often they will do this. I don't think that's happened once in PF... they will zoom past me and very quickly get on my six and shoot me down, but I've yet to see them come straight at me shooting.

Are these observations correct? If so, what happens when the game is merged?

tljack.71
06-13-2006, 10:14 AM
Well, maybe this don't apply to all of you with the merged sim, but as of yet I still have PF and IL2 as separate sims. It seems IL2 is considerable harder to play with all the settings very close to the same on each.

I am a super-rookie so both are challenging to say the least, but in IL2 I can barely shoot down a bomber from 20 paces... at least in PF I can knock down a fighter or two sometimes. Also the planes seems harder to control. Am I crazy?

Also, I noticed in IL2 the enemy planes will come straight at me guns a blazin'. Quite often they will do this. I don't think that's happened once in PF... they will zoom past me and very quickly get on my six and shoot me down, but I've yet to see them come straight at me shooting.

Are these observations correct? If so, what happens when the game is merged?

TgD Thunderbolt56
06-13-2006, 10:49 AM
This was a common issue in the earlier iterations of this sim. The AI pilots also has the ability to ding your engine or some other crucial system in those 'chicken' attacks. It was changed in later versions.

Also, are you talking about IL2 'original'? or FB?


TB

Sillius_Sodus
06-13-2006, 11:10 AM
What version of the sim are you flying?

The AI in the original stand alone only IL2 is able to perform outrageous aerobatics, much more annoying than in PF. Some of the flight models were also problematic. Also, the damage model in the older series was somewhat undermodelled, something about the hit boxes. You could be hitting with every round but if you weren't hitting the boxes just right, nothing would happen. Maybe one of the more experienced pilots on the forum could confirm or correct this.

Having said that, I still like to fly the old IL2, you just have to fly a little differently than in the later versions. Less prop sim, more space sim, at least when it comes to the AI aircraft. If you can learn to fire accurately out to ~400m you'll have far fewer problems.

Good Hunting,
Sillius_Sodus

P.S. Don't give up, it takes a while to get the hang of this sim.

tljack.71
06-13-2006, 02:34 PM
It's the version that comes in that "Complete Flight Collection" 3-pack, with LOMAC and PF. Probably the original I suspect.

MudMarine3
06-13-2006, 04:23 PM
tljack.71 and others,

I have the same flight collection 3 pack. I have no idea what versions they are. Anyone here tell us? The collection contains Pacific Fighter, Lock-On, and IL2 Sturmovik. Before playing need to know what patches to install.

caserock138
06-13-2006, 04:36 PM
that version of Il-2 is the oldest one, not relly flown anymore.

that version of PF is 4.01 i believe. when you start the game, look in the lower lefthand corner at the red numbers..it should say the version you're running right there!

horseback
06-13-2006, 04:40 PM
Il-2 Sturmovik is the original version of Oleg's flight sim. It cannot be merged with PF -it takes Forgotten Battles and Aces Expansion Pack to get mergable with pacific Fighters.

Il-2 was harder to fly than the patched versions of FB/AEP/PF, the sound was terrific, and the ai were fairly consistant and aggressive. They were, however, capable of mindnumbing performance if they were rated as Veterans or Aces. I was convinced that the presence of an Ace of either side in my vicinity somehow sapped MY engine's performance as well as allowing him to do some things the player wasn't capable of.

The initial versions of FB featured AI that would blow your engine away on every headon pass, among other things. These were worse than the AI in the original version, and it was a year before the FB ai were 'fixed' to what I thought was a playable level.

cheers

horseback

WTE_Galway
06-13-2006, 06:24 PM
The sound was way better.

Also the original Il2 was far more challenging to fly than the FB version .. just getting a 109 off the ground at all was an achievement for newer players and the P39 would spin if you sneezed

There were allegations at the time FB came out that Oleg had "dumbed down" the sim to make it appeal more to a mass market (a lot of people liked the challenge of the original game) basically to compete with the arcady MSCFS (no 1% MS addons back then) but there is no evidence for that and in reality the original Il2 had a couple of FM glitches that were causing most of the troubles

james_ander
06-13-2006, 08:11 PM
The sound is way better in the original IL2. Many of them were removed apparently because they were unrealistic (whizzing bullets, doppler effect gunfire,crappy muffled IL2 radio) etc.) People also complained a lot about the muzzle flashes. I think they were great. I think it was a huge mistake to remove these elements because these added a lot of atmosphere. In a game, I think atmosphere is more important than realism.

The original AI had lots of craziness. I fly the original sometimes, even the demo, because it is a lot of fun to fight the AI pilots with their ufo moves. BTW, I find the current AI quite challenging.

I love this sim, but there was something in the original that got lost as the game developed.

tljack.71
06-13-2006, 09:06 PM
Another thing I noticed in the Original is the flak is more defined... easier to see. I like seeing the bursts around me. Very cool. In the Stand-alone PF all I mainly see are the tracer paths, and the occational whitish burst... not the black bursts I see in IL2.

I guess you take the good with the bad. I'll still be getting the all-in-one DVD(don't wanna be behind the times), but maybe I'll keep the old IL2 around just to goof around with if I ever feel like it.

tagTaken2
06-14-2006, 01:36 AM
Also depends on whether you're using a german plane. The 2cm cannon was weaker back then.
I agree, the original game had a better vibe. Maybe we'll get that back with BoB.

lowfighter
06-14-2006, 02:03 AM
I remember, it was something like 2002 and I was already playing original il2 for 5-6 months. I bought then Forgotten Battles installed it and noticed imediately that it is much easier to fly, the most evident was the P39 handling, spins and stalls went down, the beast became suddenly a princess.
Now even funnier, when the new flight model was introduced in FB 4.01 I had the feeling that something from the original il2 FM returned back...Nonsense http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Platypus_1.JaVA
06-14-2006, 08:20 AM
Il-2 Version 1.0 was the hardest version IMHO. With each new update, the FM's and DM's got easier, generally speaking.

Or I got better http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
06-14-2006, 06:42 PM
Remember...there is no hard and fast rule that harder or more difficult FM's equals more realistic. Some of what was hard before was wrong and some of what is easy now is correct.

I remember in IL-2 having to hit planes with a TON of bullets to make anything happen. That never seemed right to me and now things seem more authentic.

lowfighter
06-15-2006, 02:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Remember...there is no hard and fast rule that harder or more difficult FM's equals more realistic. Some of what was hard before was wrong and some of what is easy now is correct.

I remember in IL-2 having to hit planes with a TON of bullets to make anything happen. That never seemed right to me and now things seem more authentic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, this is a good point.

akicker
06-19-2006, 04:11 PM
I have to agree with everybody saying the original IL-2 had something we seem to have lost along the way of 'progress'. The AI pilots at ace level were assasins, and some planes brutally unforgiving if spun. I flew countless instant mission builder encounters pitting everything against anything, and if you set up a flight of 4 ace I-16's or I-153's they would wipe anything else off the map because it always deteriorated into a close in knife fight in the end, which they ruled. The AI pilots would also fire their rockets at you if they had them, I dont see this happen anymore. Also I did not see the original AI pilots flying themselves into the ground near as much as what happens now.

slipBall
06-19-2006, 05:11 PM
The original is just a great sim. I still fly it each week. The sounds are so good I want to just keep flying. I find the flight model to be closer to real than the later games. Runway behaivor and responce's, the shakeing, rattles, stall behavior, wheels touch down behavior, are very close to real

WTE_Galway
06-20-2006, 12:32 AM
you can actually get the p39 to feel like its a knife edge away from spin just like it used to in the original IL2 by setting all the pitch and roll sliders to 100 !! .. and for soem reason with thsoe settigns when it does spin it flat spins just like the old days http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

joeap
06-20-2006, 03:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
The original is just a great sim. I still fly it each week. The sounds are so good I want to just keep flying. I find the flight model to be closer to real than the later games. Runway behaivor and responce's, the shakeing, rattles, stall behavior, wheels touch down behavior, are very close to real </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you know?

slipBall
06-20-2006, 04:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by joeap:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slipBall:
The original is just a great sim. I still fly it each week. The sounds are so good I want to just keep flying. I find the flight model to be closer to real than the later games. Runway behaivor and responce's, the shakeing, rattles, stall behavior, wheels touch down behavior, are very close to real </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


The original IL-2 is closer to my experiences of flying, than the later games, ppl, no longer active, but I have my memories http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

How do you know? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>