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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:44 PM
I work on a software dev team, and I could just imagine repeatedly not fulfilling deadlines, Goodbye client!!

I have waited over several deadlines for the FB patch, LOMAC, and Harpoon 4 I've given up on. I don't mind waiting, what I do mind is having my expectations built up and dashed repeatedly

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:44 PM
I work on a software dev team, and I could just imagine repeatedly not fulfilling deadlines, Goodbye client!!

I have waited over several deadlines for the FB patch, LOMAC, and Harpoon 4 I've given up on. I don't mind waiting, what I do mind is having my expectations built up and dashed repeatedly

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:49 PM
"I want to stand in the eye of a storm,I want to be strucked by lightning,I want our house to be set on fire,for us to walk without shelter"

(obs,just a sigtest)/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<img src="http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_113_1060360404.jpg"



Message Edited on 08/08/0304:50PM by Superluminal

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:51 PM
Yeah really considering what you have to pay for the patch and updates and all..............

<center>
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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 05:51 PM
MZ6 wrote:
- I have waited over several deadlines for the FB
- patch, LOMAC, and Harpoon 4 I've given up on. I
- don't mind waiting, what I do mind is having my
- expectations built up and dashed repeatedly
-
-

I think you can forget about Harpoon 4 - and yea, my original IL-2 jewel case has an ad for Lock On on the back panel; says that its coming out summer 2002!!

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:09 PM
Again, I don't mind the wait,frankly FB runs fine and I could even live without the patch. However, I would have no client left if I did what ubisoft has done, that is repatedly promise something, the repeatedly not fulfill that promise.

I almost certain this has nothing to do with Oleg and his team, insead, I suspect it's the marketing dept at Ubisoft who's responsible.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:26 PM
- Again, I don't mind the wait,frankly FB runs fine
- and I could even live without the patch. However, I
- would have no client left if I did what ubisoft has
- done, that is repatedly promise something, the
- repeatedly not fulfill that promise.
-
- I almost certain this has nothing to do with Oleg
- and his team, insead, I suspect it's the marketing
- dept at Ubisoft who's responsible.
-
-

You missing biggest ps of the puzzle here my friend. BTW i work for software company too and know what you mean...but it doesn`t apply here, because patches and add-on(at least previous ones) are for FREE!!! Needless to say that product is completely usable and works just fine. The biggest stink here produced by so-called inacuracy of flight models , damage models....etc , which mostly questionable...but still 1C is trying to correct them to please everyone. So there.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:32 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:

"- You missing biggest ps of the puzzle here my friend.
- BTW i work for software company too and know what
- you mean...but it doesn`t apply here, because
- patches and add-on(at least previous ones) are for
- FREE!!!"



So patches are normally a payware?

"degustibus non disputandum"

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<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:33 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
-- Again, I don't mind the wait,frankly FB runs fine
-- and I could even live without the patch. However, I
-- would have no client left if I did what ubisoft has
-- done, that is repatedly promise something, the
-- repeatedly not fulfill that promise.
--
-- I almost certain this has nothing to do with Oleg
-- and his team, insead, I suspect it's the marketing
-- dept at Ubisoft who's responsible.
--
--
-
- You missing biggest ps of the puzzle here my friend.
- BTW i work for software company too and know what
- you mean...but it doesn`t apply here, because
- patches and add-on(at least previous ones) are for
- FREE!!! Needless to say that product is completely
- usable and works just fine. The biggest stink here
- produced by so-called inacuracy of flight models ,
- damage models....etc , which mostly
- questionable...but still 1C is trying to correct
- them to please everyone. So there.. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
- Regards,
- VFC*Crazyivan
- http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif
-
- "No matter how good the violin may be, much depends
- on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy
- pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub
-



"So called inaccuracy of flight models, damage models....etc.., which mostly questionable"



Crazy are you smokin' the giggle bush??!?!??!


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif




JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:35 PM
carguy_ wrote:
-
-
- So patches are normally a payware?
-
- "degustibus non disputandum"
-

No, patches normally correct software that did not work according to standards or docs (kept crashing on this or that etc...) In the case of IL2 FB this should be called an upgrade not a patch. And yes, usually you pay for upgrades.

Esc101_ElPape

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:37 PM
ElPape wrote:
-
- carguy_ wrote:
--
--
-- So patches are normally a payware?
--
-- "degustibus non disputandum"
--
-
- No, patches normally correct software that did not
- work according to standards or docs (kept crashing
- on this or that etc...) In the case of IL2 FB this
- should be called an upgrade not a patch. And yes,
- usually you pay for upgrades.

don't make me laugh! 'in case of IL2 FB this should be called upgrade not patch'. this must be the most naive thing I heard here in a long long time (RBJ's posts aside)

<center>http://users.pandora.be/vnnet/FBforum/sig9.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:38 PM
Exactly, the patch will be done when it's done. Making promises creates expectations, don't make the promise, no expectations.

The patch, like you said is a bonus, we as the consumers really have no right to demand it. My advice is, when the patch is ready, announe it, then all the dashed expectations could be avoided and we the consumers would be praising ubisoft and the patch that appeared out of the blue.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:38 PM
ElPape wrote:
- No, patches normally correct software that did not
- work according to standards or docs (kept crashing
- on this or that etc...) In the case of IL2 FB this
- should be called an upgrade not a patch. And yes,
- usually you pay for upgrades.



Plz explain why do you think that in this case it should be called upgrade.


"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:49 PM
LOL thats just hilarious. an upgrade u say? lol its a patch to do just that, patch several bugs and issues. sure oleg might throw in some bonus content, but mainly it does fix the PROPLEMS that fb DOES have. such as teh perfect mode issue and etc.everygame has something wrong with it that needs to be fixed. just how games are.

--
-
- "No, patches normally correct software that did not
- work according to standards or docs (kept crashing
- on this or that etc...) In the case of IL2 FB this
- should be called an upgrade not a patch. And yes,
- usually you pay for upgrades."
-
- -

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:53 PM
Because, as it is, the game works fine. Planes fly and bullets do damage. There are flight models that work. No one has ever claimed that they are 100% accurate to real life. Though Maddox strives for that, it is not the sole purpose of the sim--unlike a professional training facility. Which this is not and seems to be a source of confusion for some.

The patch, to me, is a bonus. Not a requirement.


carguy_ wrote:
-
- Plz explain why do you think that in this case it
- should be called upgrade.
-


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ZG77_Nagual
08-08-2003, 06:57 PM
'My expectations built up' 'my hopes dashed' man, I'm hearin freakin violins.

I haven't seen any 'promises'. Somebody says 'we might do thus-and-such around x time' and it's a promise?

Anybody ever here the term 'co-dependant'?

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 06:58 PM
Weather_Man wrote:
- Because, as it is, the game works fine. Planes fly
- and bullets do damage. There are flight models that
- work. No one has ever claimed that they are 100%
- accurate to real life. Though Maddox strives for
- that, it is not the sole purpose of the sim--unlike
- a professional training facility. Which this is not
- and seems to be a source of confusion for some.
-
- The patch, to me, is a bonus. Not a requirement.



Well,to me the patch only fixes problems and I see no bonus
content.

"degustibus non disputandum"

<center>http://carguy.w.interia.pl/tracki/sig23d.jpg

<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:00 PM
amen to that carguy. fb does have issues such as the one dealing with perfect mode. and the patch is gonna fix all that and update the historical accuracy of some fm. so mainly it patches problems like it should. the addon is the upgrade or so called "bonus".

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:09 PM
go take Psychology-101 again, you obvously forgot what co-dependent means.

'building expectations'is a fundamental concept in marketing and advetizing. Maybe you could open up a book on that

Also look up the word 'will' as in 'will be done'. It does not mean maybe, so I guess you should have a peek into a dictionary while your at it.

ZG77_Nagual
08-08-2003, 07:25 PM
Oh! Is that Bambi in the meadow smelling a flower?



http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:25 PM
Author: MZ6
Rank: New User
Date: 08/08/03 12:44PM



OMG.

<center>http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/1NewHelos1.gif
<center><font face="verdana" size="1">Whop!-Whop!

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:29 PM
carguy, honestly....tell me how many REAL problems FB has bsides FM/DM issues that raised up by many individuals after reading numerious sources. Needless to say that all sources are giving various information... you know...one says "A"...other says "B".

If you think about it...addressing of real problems...such as sound issues and memory issues... i think the only two REAL bugs here...plus few small graphical bugs ... could have been done in the very short time IMO. While tweaking FM and revorking DM and other complex things is something that requires a huge ammount of time.

I still think that biggest problem with FB`s release was the fact that UBISOFT or 1C...Not sure who`s responcible for that... lowered system requirements.

Just my 02c /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:30 PM
USAFHelos wrote:
- Author: MZ6
- Rank: New User
- Date: 08/08/03 12:44PM
-
-
-
-
- OMG.


Damn sad. People creating new user names just to whine about the patch.

If Oleg ever decides to cease his participation in these forums, these same whiners will, undoubtedly, whine that it was 'other' people that caused that.

<p align="center">http://forums.ubi.com/i/icons/Symbols/symbol-us-flag.gif </br></br><font size="1" color="white"><u>RealKill</u></font></p><font size="1" color="#4A535C">

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:31 PM
If I delivered software to my clients the way UBI does to us, I'd have no clients left.

UBI is releasing a *patch* because the original retail product wasn't complete. Was. Not. Complete.

I think a lot of us would be better able to tolerate this kind of crap if UBI were just a little more upfront about it all. There's sometimes nothing to speed up the situation, but goodwill goes a long way. Lack of goodwill goes the other way...

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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:42 PM
What was the point of this guys post?

Today is a day of news...of dates...of indformation on what we can expect.

For all the things anyone feels cartrix or Oleg has done..today it has been corrected.

We can sit around and whine about the past or look forward to a better future.

UBi - sort of sucky, ok sure.

Oleg - Has pulled through for us EVERY SINGLE time.

He posts here and chats with us.

First time ever that has happened in a game/sim that I have been involved with. I've been around for a while.



<center>http://af-helos.freewebspace.com/1NewHelos1.gif
<center><font face="verdana" size="1">Whop!-Whop!

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:48 PM
Well, this is a double-edged sword. People begged and whined for information and so Ubi gave it to them. But when it's wrong, they whine some more. People have to understand that software development is unpredictable, especially considering the sheer amount of changes being made in this patch. Also, don't forget that FB isn't the only game being developed, they have other projects too. Mr.Maddox/Ubi is not tricking you or holding the patch out of spite. What's the benefit of that? They truly want to improve this game.

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"Cowards die many times before their deaths;
The valiant never taste of death but once."

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:49 PM
Some of you guys act like spoiled little babies. Helos is absolutly right but I must add that the atmosphere here has changed and we see less and less of mr. Maddox. I for one dont blame him.

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:50 PM
i guess thats the difference between RETAIL clients and CONTRACT clients.
get off the soapbox folks, if the WHINERS in here were my clients id have dropped thier insatiable sniveling little arses long ago..........in pursuit of a more level headed and realistic clientel.

MADMAN

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 07:54 PM
crazyivan1970 wrote:
- carguy, honestly....tell me how many REAL problems
- FB has bsides FM/DM issues that raised up by many
- individuals after reading numerious sources.
- Needless to say that all sources are giving various
- information... you know...one says "A"...other says
- "B".
-
- If you think about it...addressing of real
- problems...such as sound issues and memory issues...
- i think the only two REAL bugs here...plus few small
- graphical bugs ... could have been done in the very
- short time IMO. While tweaking FM and revorking DM
- and other complex things is something that requires
- a huge ammount of time.
-
- I still think that biggest problem with FB`s release
- was the fact that UBISOFT or 1C...Not sure who`s
- responcible for that... lowered system requirements.



You`re right.Some of the flaws are strictly "historical" ones.That is if a term "bug" is used for flaws that make the game not work like it should.I don`t know if SHII community flamed the creators,cuz one U-boat dove 3 seconds faster than in the game.In IL2 it happened.From the beginning Maddox Games accepted to widen this term a bit.They have been tweaking DMs,FMs just to please those who knew history and could prove it with hard data.You see now why some consider this as bugs aswell.


Finally,that is why I`m not sure if MG made a mistake.IMO they should first release a patch which would fix the sound,netcode and graphical glitches.Yes,that would make this game perfectly playable.No objections,your honor.


MG combined it all into one patch,so it`s a patch,not an upgrade.A standard fixing the game procedure IMO.


Now the addon is another thing.Let`em work how long they wish to.First one will be free,the second payware.I have absolutely no reason to complain about that.

"degustibus non disputandum"

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<center>"Weder Tod noch Teufel!"</font>[/B]</center> (http://www.jzg23.de>[B]<font)

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:02 PM
MZ6,


Isn't it a shame the IL2/FB isn't a MICRO$OFT product line! Gee, they would have had that FREE upgrade/patch out to us in about 5 minutes. Yeah, right ..........;-)

What a great idea! Let's all complain about how Maddox is behind schedule to provide this FREE upgrade to us. It will definitely motivate them to offer lots more FREE updates in the future to all of us complaining ingrates, so they can hear yet more complaints.

Stop and think about it. We all ought to thank our lucky stars they we are getting ANYTHING for FREE under any conditions.



Blutarski

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:09 PM
"So patches are normally a payware?"


Actually, you pay for support - typically in licensing fees.

So - imagine if you needed to pay for support agreement of $50 a year to be entitled to free upgrades?

That is how it works in the business world.

S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:10 PM
Actually, let me add.

This is totally different environment. We aren't talking about a $1000+ product.

They distribute to keep the fan base and so you'll buy future titles, etc...



S!
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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:17 PM
Weather_Man wrote:
- ...Planes fly
- and bullets do damage....

LOL...have you shooted at an i16 with the bf109 Mg's?

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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 08:24 PM
asmatic wrote:
-
- Weather_Man wrote:
-- ...Planes fly
-- and bullets do damage....
-
- LOL...have you shooted at an i16 with the bf109
- Mg's?
-
- <img
- src="http://d2ol-counter.pietschmann.it/userstats.
- php?name=asmatic&lg=en&small=0">
- Fight SARS-D2OL (http://www.d2ol.com)



The 109 has MGs?


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



JG27_Arklight
"Taking out the garbage since release"

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 10:46 PM
JG27_Arklight wrote:

- The 109 has MGs?


2 x 7.92mm (MG 17) from object viewer (bf109 E4)

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XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 10:54 PM
asmatic wrote:
-
- JG27_Arklight wrote:
-
-- The 109 has MGs?
-
-
- 2 x 7.92mm (MG 17) from object viewer (bf109 E4)
-

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-08-2003, 11:58 PM
USAFHelos wrote:
- What was the point of this guys post?
-
- Today is a day of news...of dates...of indformation
- on what we can expect.
-
- For all the things anyone feels cartrix or Oleg has
- done..today it has been corrected.
-
- We can sit around and whine about the past or look
- forward to a better future.
-
- UBi - sort of sucky, ok sure.
-
- Oleg - Has pulled through for us EVERY SINGLE time.
-
- He posts here and chats with us.
-
- First time ever that has happened in a game/sim that
- I have been involved with. I've been around for a
- while.
-
-
-

You´re so so right!!!



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XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 12:06 AM
carguy_ wrote:
- So patches are normally a payware?

Quite often they are. I'd consider Windows NT 5.1
(Windows XP) to be not a great deal more than a
patch for Windows 2000. (Check the build numbers - not
really a huge number of builds between the two!).

XyZspineZyX
08-09-2003, 01:05 AM
He said:

"I work on a software dev team, and I could just imagine repeatedly not fulfilling deadlines, Goodbye client!!

I have waited over several deadlines for the FB patch, LOMAC, and Harpoon 4 I've given up on. I don't mind waiting, what I do mind is having my expectations built up and dashed repeatedly "

****************
Well, I guess they know you'll keep buying their products anyway.