View Full Version : Does this ring a bell anyone?

07-09-2008, 05:47 AM
I got so mad at the way things turned out when I first posted this idea back on Mon Nov 26, 2007 12:29 am (If no one remembers I got pasted but good... here and @ AAA and also by most of my then fellow mods save one) that I just deleted the threads but since I am not an admin at AAA just a poster the thread was still there. I figured since now things are a bit calmer we can at least look at it and see if perhaps we can do it. Just an idea.. Bear in mind that this post was made at the height of the Mod panic of 07.. so please no one take offense. I think that we can look at it and see just how far we all have come on this.

"Bearcat" This is a copy of a post I made @ UBI edited for here. I hope that we can pull it off.

Look folks it is painfully obvious to me and to anyone with a brain that both sides are deeply entrenched in their views on the issue and any kind of agreement will be a while in coming if at all.. If anything hopefully we will be able to come to a truce of some kind and some kind of Neutral Zone...

Now the modder community say they have nothing but honorable intentions and here is their chance to show it by adhering to these guidelines. The anti mod community says they are concerned about the potential for cheating. Well any anti mod person who DOES NOT have their server labeled as Mod Free deserves what they get and cannot complain. These labels are in addition to the CRT settings, since some claim that CRT+2 doesn't work. I propose the following short but if followed effective guidelines listed below.

Now before I get labeled some kind of Pollyanna or dreamer... I know full well that

A)There is no way to enforce this.

But this isn't about enforcement. It is about having a set of protocols to operate by that everyone follows. Yes I know that there will be some who will not follow them. This is for the people on both sides of the whole mod issue who say that they just want to fly. This seems like a good way to at least set up a SoP. For example... on servers that specify that there is to be no vulching... there may be people who come in and vulch.. but for the most part people abide by the server rules or they fly on servers that allow vulching. It is really that simple.

B)This will not change the minds of the die hards on either side of the equation.

That is not what this is about. As I have been saying here and over there on the modder forum.. like it or not.. the mods are here. Regardless to what we who have reservations about the mods may think about the mods and how they were done... I know for a fact that some of the folks who have the sound mod have no intention of using any others. They just want the sounds.. Yes there are others that might be likely to cheat.. but I cannot lump them all together... and I have tried to get across to that community that for many of the anti mod folks.. it is not that we are accusing anyone of cheating... but we are more upset by the potential for cheating that would not exist without the ability to hack the sim. Some of those guys get it.. some don't...

But IMO we have to get past this because ... they aren't going anywhere... so we need to establish some kind of code of conduct... if we all stick together and look to the community itself I think we may be able to ride this out. There will be folks who will violate this unofficial manifesto and yup .. it is true that basically there is nothing that can be done about it other than to have server admins kick them from their servers.. but I for one refuse to just curse the darkness... This is my little candle. It beats a blank and it certainly beats the back and forth acrimony.

I know that I cant change people.. cheaters will cheat.... thieves will steal...

This is a solution oriented thread... If you do not want to think solutions then DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD. If you want to continue the same name calling, back biting and non productive vitriol that has taken over the boards across several venues over this issue then please.. DO NOT POST IN THIS THREAD.

Consider this sort of like a virtual Geneva Convention...

Server Protocols

1. All servers on Hyperlobby will list in their descriptions whether they are Mod Friendly or Mod Free. In a Mod Free server NO MODS OF ANY KIND AT ANY TIME WILL BE ALLOWED. Period.
This is to be done by server admins, whether dedicated or COOP and should be honored by all who join the servers.

2. All flyers are to follow the guidelines of the server they are joining. If you are one of the many folks with two installs, and you forget to switch to the unmodded version and you actually do get into a Mod Free server you are HONOR BOUND to leave and reenter with the proper version.
If you do not use the mods and you go into a Mod Friendly server do not complain or sling accusations of cheating etc. if you see something that is out of the ordinary. The odds are good that you will not notice anything unusual.. but if you do either leave the server or deal with it.

3. Upon entering a server whether Mod Friendly or Mod Free you will respect the the other flyers on the server, adhere to the mission goals in the case of a COOP or scripted DF server. In the case of a squadron in a Team Room you will ask permission to join the room before entering.

4. Where possible you will get on comms if the server has them and they are open.

5. The goal for most of us I am sure is to have fun and survive first. Therefore team play is envcouraged in this regard if you see a pilot already on a target DO NOT shoot over his/her shoulder to get to it, cover his 6.

These are just guidelines folks. The issue of mods is very real and it will not go away. If we continue in the same direction that we are going on the community will be split even farther. By adhering these simple rules of conduct for online flying it is my sincere desire that much of the schism between the two groups will at least be more manageable. It is entirely up to us.

*Touching on number 4..) Any issues with other fliers in this regard will be settled as adults.. not as children and NOT in the server chat.

I edited one line in here about team killing because teamplay should be encourageed IMO..

Anyway.... as I said.. it was just an idea.. so if you are hosting... just label it mod free or friendly and we'll see how it goes.. If you like of course.. LMAO.. When I think about the reaction I got I think it is kind of funny 10 months down the line, but when it happened... OUCH!!! I think Targ put up a cartoon in the mod forum of 2 hunters looking at a bear trap with a bear's balls caught in it. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif again.. funny as h@ll now but back then I was heated http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif !!! LOL

07-09-2008, 09:05 AM
We've come along way. I still like the "Geneva Convention" idea BC.

07-09-2008, 11:58 AM
Bump, I think server owners should label their servers, especially the no mod servers as I'm sure there are many mod users who would not intentionally use them where not wanted but may not know that servers stance.

07-09-2008, 01:12 PM
Originally posted by Urufu_Shinjiro:
Bump, I think server owners should label their servers, especially the no mod servers as I'm sure there are many mod users who would not intentionally use them where not wanted but may not know that servers stance.

Indeed! That used to be pretty standard in CFS1. Almost all rooms were labled: Stock Only, ARK Royal, No Shooting, MODS (which was understood to be the UberMods), and others.

If rooms were labled as "Mod Friendly" and "No mods Please", it would certainly help avoid confusion, and "hurt feelings".

07-09-2008, 01:44 PM
BearCat, that's nice. But remember not all "anti-mod folks" (that choice of words is a radical label itself) are against them just because of the fear of cheating.

Many of us don't give a d*mn about cheating or have become convinced it may be a minor issue. But still don't like the mods because of their origin (only available through a non-authorized hack of author code), and that is not going to change with a set of server rules.

Put some of your efforts in getting just a shy MG approval or any express declaration by them about a new "laissez-faire" policy towards the mods, and many of us -and I the first- will gladly join to the cheerful mod-user community. I have been a modder myself for years, and you know what I'm talking about.

Trying to get some official approval -I hope that UBI and 1C forums allowing mod discussion is a step in that direction, though they're not the team- may likely be fruitless, but still a token of good intentions.

But while they appear to be silently frowned upon by the original creators, with mods profiting from passive impunity more than from active legitimacy, I just can't do it. Of course, this is just a personal choice, and I'm not blaming anyone for anything, nor saying it is "wrong" or "right" from an objective point of view. I'm not in any crusade, just don't forget in your praise-worthy intent for bringing union, about those who are genuinely concerned for our own ethical reasons -that no one has necessarily to share.

And please, don't let people call us hypocrites or self-righteous or the like, because we don't think we deserve it. And before someone jumps with the typical silly argument, no, I've never done anything illegal, nor do I lie, unless it serves to save someone's life or spare him/her wanton pain.

Good idea, though.

And yes, despite the unending debate, manners and feelings are less heated now than then, which is always a good sign.

07-09-2008, 08:31 PM
Dux while I understand where you are coming from, that is something that is beyond me.. AFAIC if Oleg has little to say in or about the mod related posts on the 1C site.. I wont expect much here. I am assuming he is just busy as all get out.. and while I understand where you are coming from.. I would rather put my efforts into something that I might be able to influence in some way.. and enjoy what is at my disposal today.. and look forward to SoW tomoerrow..

07-09-2008, 09:39 PM
If no one remembers I got pasted but good.

When you poasted the Kit Carson 109 article, you got the pasting of a lifetime. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

07-09-2008, 10:05 PM
It's a good idea, Bearcat, and thankfully we seem to be seeing some movement on HL in this direction. Hope all the servers will add one simple phrase to their description to help clarify things. Then we will be able to pick the server that suits our tastes... just as we do with difficulty settings, planesets, etc.

From then on, it will all be sunshine and lollipops! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

07-10-2008, 01:33 AM
I remember that idea,I thought it was a good idea and said so at the time but could never uderstand why so many ppl didnt like it,I also remember the pasting you got and REALLY didnt understand that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Now that things have calmed down a bit(mostly anyway)I think this should definately be looked at again.I'm not sure how you could get this to work though,Maybe a sticky here(and maybe AAA if they wanted too)and a request at as many of the server sites as poosible(i'll gladly give you a hand with that if you like)I cant see why they wouldnt do it,it requires little work for them and would make it easy to see what kind of server your joining and hopefully eliminating ppl crying foul in server's cause you are using mods in the server and they aren't.worth a try imho.

Dux,i totaly agree with you in trying to get some sort of approval(shy or otherwise)about the mods.Maybe an electronic petition would help the case,I'm sure if the guys at AAA put one up there most of the member's(11000 + now!) would sign it and probably a lot here too.certainly wouldn't hurt the case.

I'm not sure if it would work(in fact I'm pretty sure it wouldn't) but if we dont give it a try then i think it will definately never happen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

07-10-2008, 03:41 PM
I'm with Bearcat on this one, the "Mods" if chosen wisely will breath more life into Il-2 until "SOW" is released. Because of the lack of information coming from 1C on a regular basis about "SOW" some of the interest in this sim and "SOW" was starting to disappear. The community involved with the "Mods" seem to be a responsible group at this stage with the future enjoyment of Il-2 foremost in the mods process. As it appears that there will be no further development of Il-2 from 1C (these are comments that have come from 1C as I have read some time ago) a large part of the community seem to have banded together to keep this sim alive. With new buyers of 1946 joining the forums, the developers (1C) are probably grateful for the extra sales that have been generated. I know that we were all concerned about the mods when first released but the ones I have tried are very well done, lets hope that the quality of the mods is maintained. Maybe 1C should have listened more to some of the requests from our forum members then this situation may not have happened.

07-10-2008, 05:48 PM
Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
Bear:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If no one remembers I got pasted but good.

When you poasted the Kit Carson 109 article, you got the pasting of a lifetime. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

ROFLMAO!! You remember that!!?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

I had no idea about the reaction to come either.. I was just beig helpful, or so I thought... LMAO.