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ImpStarDuece
02-11-2006, 08:46 AM
You'll all think that I've gone insane, but my wobbles are back! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

And in possibly the most curious form ever. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Before you all start going http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif please hear my story out. I need to get this straight in my own head, before I go call a shrink!

Before the patch came out, I flew 4.01 for all my campaigns and mission building. I had such bad control issues with 4.02 that I couldn't fly some of my favourite aircraft, most notable the P-47. Wild, disproportinate pitch and rudder oscillations with the P-51, P-47, Spitfire, Yak-9 and a couple of others. It didn't matter too much to me, as I spend 90% of my time offline.

So, the switch to 4.03 was fantastic for me. New planes and the new maps from 4.02. First thing I did was a QMB and check out the Tempest Mk V. No wobbles! Amazing bird. Smooth as silk and solid as a rock. Great!

Ok, next I moved onto the Macchis, 202s and 205s. Hmm, fantastic cockpits, but they're a bit unstable compared to the Tempest. Nose bobs up and down a bit, and the elevator seems to have a few tiny pauses in hard turns. Oh well, maybe its just the new flight model. I'll give it time.

A few more flights and the pauses and the osciallations got worse. Hmmm. These Macchis are TWITCHY in the turns and REALLY difficult to pull smoothly into a loop. Maybe I need a break.

Switch off the computer and go have dinner. Come back and fire up the game again and try out the MC 200. Steady as a rock, smooth as silk. No wobbles. Fly around for 10 minutes on the Crimea map, straffing boats and flying low over hill tops. Crash, reload QMB with a couple of Hurricanes for opposition. My Macchi now starts to oscillate in the turns, just a little. Tiny pauses when I pull up into a climb or push over into a dive. In a hard, flat turn the nose bobs up and down slightly instead of tracking round smoothly. Get shot down and refly. Start to dogfight and the wobbles are back. Rudder swings are more viloent than they should be, and the elevators flutter or pause in a turn.

So, for the last 48 hours I have been diving in an out of the QMB like a mainac, testing all the planes. Every time I started the game and flew a QMB, the first plane off the rank was wobble free. When I spawned in the nose would oscilate very gently and then straighten out. No over sensitive rudder, no elevator pauses, no control issues whatsoever. Then I'd hit refly. Same plane, same set-up, same map, same everything. However, as soon as my plane spawned in, the nose would immediately take a large jump up to the right or left. The gunsight would shift all over the place. I'd then get 2-3 seconds of porposing and pundulming before things would settle down. Immediately, I'd notice a slight deteoriation of the fine control of my airplane. Nothing was as precise as the previous QMB. Applying rudder was more difficult, I had elevator pauses and my loops and turns stopped being effortlessly smooth.

So, if i haven't completely bored you with my apparent insanity, does anyone else have this issue? It is SO FRUSTRATING! I can play the sim perfectly, but just 1 mission at a time. Everything after that first campaign mission, QMB, FMB test flight and my control starts to progressively worsen. First mission: good http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif . Second mission: bad http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif .

Any idea what is happening between the first and second sorties that I fly? Why would restarting the game temporarily get rid of the wobbles, only to have them come back the very next mission??

LEBillfish
02-11-2006, 08:58 AM
I'm experiencing some twitching/flutter of the inputs yet not as violently as before, though did note something dramatic....My rudder axis after patching in the config.ini changed the first input number from 16 to 37 and this is confirmed by checking my backup files. Now that makes absolutly NO sense to me as if 1 changed I'd expect all to of (as though there was a new conf.ini added)....Yet never the less.

However as to the flutter of the inputs in the 20% or less range, they seem to be somewhat back though I need to do some hard checking first to confirm it as frankly I've had little time to fly.

Could be me, could be the sim, stick checks out fine.....I'll report what I find when I have time.

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 09:15 AM
the flutter is probably the joystick fish, does it flutter when u move the stick, or only when neutral?

ive read/heard comments from some which seems to me like they suddenly got wobbles

HotelBushranger
02-11-2006, 09:25 AM
Hello, my name is HotelBushranger and I have Macchi wobbles http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LEBillfish
02-11-2006, 09:34 AM
Originally posted by p1ngu666:
the flutter is probably the joystick fish, does it flutter when u move the stick, or only when neutral?

ive read/heard comments from some which seems to me like they suddenly got wobbles

Well I've described the "flutter" before and it does so from "just out of" dead neutral to an approx. 20% of input available. It is also something that filtering nor dead band seems to effect. In kind the stick tests out fine not only in it's calibration tests but also in other sims/games.

However, I don't know if I have a problem due to the sim ATM.......I've not had time to check past insuring the stick is solid and not the problem.


As a side note folks........Though some planes will exhibit this flutter or wobble more then others.....It is not limited to a plane to plane condition. It either affects them all to their own unique degree or none at all at that point just being that planes FM idiosyncrasies.

How I first knew before was I could NOT get heavier planes like a P47 or FW off a long runway. The flutter so bad the plane could never accelerate that length enough. Later in that it was impossible to hold a line in the lower 20% of input so impossible to shoot at anything. It all proven out in "visually" seeing the control surfaces "flutter".

So if you're finding just 1 or 2 planes are giving you trouble.....Then it is purely that planes FM not the "wobbles". If all are check the simplest thing first....."Your stick". Lastly, check a "known to be stable plane"....if it is twitching or uncontrollable or can't make speed...and you're sure you're not just learning a new FM......THEN you "MIGHT" have the wobbles......yet check it all again first.

jimDG
02-11-2006, 09:44 AM
my old stick used to overheat (or something) after 2h of play (..cough). And when that happened I could no longer get full deflection in one axis and the 'lil square in the hardware settings would be going all over the place after an input.
It would go back to normal after switching comp of and leaving it off for 5 mins before starting up again.

So - test again with keyboard - and you'll know if its in your head or some place else.

F19_Ob
02-11-2006, 09:50 AM
Sounds really wierd m8.

I came to think of something.
Since NTRK. tracks record everything, even skins, the woble should be caught aswell.

Try it. If it gets captured on track U should send it to Oleg to see what he makes out of it.

Hope it sorts out.

LeOs.K_Walstein
02-11-2006, 09:52 AM
Originally posted by ImpStarDuece:

please hear my story out. I need to get this straight in my own head, before I go call a shrink!

Get one for me, too. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I have done my best in configurating joystick in the meaning of to get rid of wobble. I`m frustrated but I can live with it... so far http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Going crazy,
Wallstein

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 09:57 AM
i get flutter sometimes, but i think mine is my stick where its flicking between 2 states of deflection *very* quickly

F19_Ob
02-11-2006, 10:00 AM
Originally posted by Kuna_:
Track?

Yes, NTRK.'s (= quick track or net track) records everything, all stick inputs and plane movements.
They should get recorded I think.

No harm in trying if it can help solving the problem. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

heywooood
02-11-2006, 10:06 AM
some planes seem to 'pump' through turns...Mc202 does...testing others.

'Pump' effect = steady stick deflection but the image looking out through the canopy indicates an uneven 'pull, release ,pull , release stick deflection..or 'pumping' of the control stick.

The new planes are fantastic...nice 'pits in the Tempest and the Macci's especially - Do335 is awesome. Have you bailed from it yet?

LEBillfish
02-11-2006, 10:19 AM
As to the NTRK's I agree 100%....I never got them before in that I worked to fix the problem no one knowing anything of it...naturally once fixed (part of which was a clean fresh install) all chance of recording it was lost......

However since we all have heard of it (believe it or not) now, there is no excuse for not getting NTRK's this go round....even 10 seconds of NTRK when applying minimal input will show it if you zoom in on say the tail control surfaces.

jds1978
02-11-2006, 10:23 AM
The new planes are fantastic...nice 'pits in the Tempest and the Macci's especially - Do335 is awesome. Have you bailed from it yet?

first flight in DO335 i ejected out for no other reason than to experience it(LOL)

ImpStar: Oh NOOOO....sorry to hear about the "Return of the Son 'o Wobbles" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

Lion_13
02-11-2006, 10:37 AM
IIRCC this also cured/helped the wobbles.
From the patch read me:

Additional Notes:

If you have a computer with a Pentium 4 processor, you may occasionally encounter game lock-ups or crashes to desktop. In order to solve that, copy your il2_core.dll into the il2_corep4.dll (for example, with the following command: "copy il2_core.dll il2_corep4.dll"; or, in Windows Explorer, navigate to your sim installation directory, delete the existing il2_corep4.dll, make a copy of the il2_core.dll, and rename the copy to il2_corep4.dll)

Had to do this with last patch or two.

LEBillfish
02-11-2006, 10:44 AM
BTW......this utility "supposedly" works for all makers devices.....It might be worth a try "though be warned!!!" it supposedly removes ALL settings from the registry.

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/downloads/software/US...ID=1,softwareid=5484 (http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/downloads/software/US/EN,CRID=1786,contentid=6217,OSID=1,softwareid=5484 )

arjisme
02-11-2006, 11:11 AM
ImpStarDuece, I have to say I agree with much of what you describe. I hadn't related it to refly or anything, but my first impression was things were quite stable. But, then I tried flying first a Hellcat, then a Corsair, vs. the new J2M3 and was very surprised to see significant wobbles, which I had not seen before (even in patch 4.02).

I tried the new Italian birds in QMB last night and also experienced the odd pauses in input. I was lining up shots and needing to pull up just slightly to put the pipper on target and found it could not be done smoothly. I got wierd, minor pauses, meaning it would not pull up for a moment, then suddenly pull up, then not again, then pull up a bit more.

Very strange. I think I will try the problem planes I have seen after initially loading PF each time. It will be interesting if they turn out to be smooth and stable. Another thing I think I will try is resetting my config file to default values.

I love the patch, but I think there may still be some issues here.

p1ngu666
02-11-2006, 11:18 AM
i had that in a mossie last night http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

LEBillfish
02-11-2006, 12:03 PM
Again.....my suggestion is forget determining this from "new planes".......Use a plane we have had for some time and is known to be stable.

There is where you will determine if you have wobble's.

Aviar
02-11-2006, 12:06 PM
ImpStarDuece,

Consider yourself lucky. The part where you describe this...

"Then I'd hit refly. Same plane, same set-up, same map, same everything. However, as soon as my plane spawned in, the nose would immediately take a large jump up to the right or left. The gunsight would shift all over the place. I'd then get 2-3 seconds of porposing and pundulming before things would settle down. Immediately, I'd notice a slight deteoriation of the fine control of my airplane. Nothing was as precise as the previous QMB. Applying rudder was more difficult, I had elevator pauses and my loops and turns stopped being effortlessly smooth."

...well, I have this EVERY time. At least the first time you start the QMB you have a stable plane. If you ever figure out how you get a stable plane at least some of the time, let us know...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

If anyone can host a 20-second track to show what it looks like, I can record one right away. Let me know.

Aviar

Kyril1959
02-11-2006, 04:00 PM
Hmmmmmm, seems rather odd, the ones complaining about wobble in 4.02 have seen a marked improvement. But now some that INSISTED it didn't exist in 4.02 have been afflicted....poetic justice anyone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifhttp://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Revenge of the 4.02 wobblers, lol.
At any rate, I hope you all get it figured out.

major_setback
02-11-2006, 05:04 PM
Are you sure you're not experiencing turbulence? I get the purposing only when at low level...it's always been very exagerated on my MSFF2 stick scince it was introduced, I can hardly hold the stick.

try a QMB with clear weather and then run the same one but with the weather changed to poor and see if the turbulence 'kicks in'. It should only be felt under 300m altitude. That also explains why all air spawns (at a higher altitude) are problem free.

ImpStarDuece
02-11-2006, 05:24 PM
Ok, I've run some more QMBs and the problem is still there:

1st run: everything is normal. The nose stays almost straight and level when I spawn in. There are oscillations there, but nothing that isn't pilot induced. Everything is wobble free.

2nd run: the return of the wobbles. The nose sways all over the place when I spawn in, regardless of altitude. I like Heywoods explination of the plane 'pumping' through the turns. Its exactly like my elevators are returning to neutral for a fraction of a second and then returning back to their previous position so I can continue the turn. The rudder is way more sensitive to corrections, any pilot induced osciallations are much more violent and torque seems more noticable.

What I can't understand is that why this phenomenon isn't present in my first flight, but is in every subsequent flight.

I'll make some NTRKS when I have a little more time with the problem. At the moment I'm using IL2-Sticks to see if its a filtering problem with my Logitechs stick.

Tator_Totts
02-11-2006, 05:32 PM
Maybe the (Wobbles) is the result of a flu bug that throws off you equiliberiun and it seems the plane is wobbling. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

AB_Mormac
02-11-2006, 10:51 PM
The wobbles or what ever they are called are the worst thing about this game.If this is going to be in BOB{Wobbling around the skys]sounds like no fun to me.The flight controls are Porked.Hoping they will fix soon.Tryed all the fixs sugested with no effect.
The best flight sim has control problems.

fordfan25
02-11-2006, 11:11 PM
Originally posted by heywooood:
some planes seem to 'pump' through turns...Mc202 does...testing others.

'Pump' effect = steady stick deflection but the image looking out through the canopy indicates an uneven 'pull, release ,pull , release stick deflection..or 'pumping' of the control stick.

The new planes are fantastic...nice 'pits in the Tempest and the Macci's especially - Do335 is awesome. Have you bailed from it yet?

nice sig haywoood

rnzoli
02-12-2006, 01:43 AM
Just a thought: would the device link feature be some help to pin down the problem and report it to the developers? It works in offline flights, and perhaps it can be used as a 'flight data recorder' (a.k.a. 'black box'). Probably gives much more accurate information reading than the .ntrk tracks.

micksaf
02-12-2006, 03:41 AM
see my post: "think I might have the solution to "wobble" prob"

-HH-Dubbo
02-12-2006, 03:50 AM
Are you guys trimming up when you fly the first time? I have noticed random elevator trim changes from one game to the next. On the runway I have a chance to correct for this, but on an airstart.....

Every 2nd time I get in a Mossie for example, the trim will be about 70% positive although I had just landed with relatively neutral trim. BUT it doesn't kick in until I touch the trim controls.If this occured in an airstart mission, I think you'd experience something you just described

JG52Uther
02-12-2006, 04:19 AM
For me,i had no wobbles in 4.02,and i have none now in 4.03.Hope you get it sorted out guys.

ImpStarDuece
02-12-2006, 04:58 AM
Trim isn't a problem. I can trim all the airplanes up just fine, so that they fly straight and level.

When the wobble appears, if I go into anything but the gentlest of turns or climbs, I get the 'pumping' with the nose.

It's driving me batty.

I've gone back to 4.01 for the moment.

Jetbuff
02-12-2006, 12:15 PM
ImpStar, could I trouble you for a pair of tracks, one with and one without wobbles? It would probably also be helpful to know what joystick you are using and your conf.ini response settings.

You may want to rule out problems in the former by going to the 'Hardware' > 'Input' section and seeing if anything abnormal is happening between the first run and subsequent ones.