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raaaid
01-24-2009, 02:18 PM
i never could believe in karma since certain things are way too cruel as to be fair

but all these years ive had a hope some faith, what if the world is a pantomine and god rules not allowing certain things that the press would make up, from my perspective it could be true since my experience has been very happy, but those news... there can no be god or he is horrible(or the news false)

but i fought all kind of loony insane names i was given and kept my faith in a good god

i can not keep the self deceivement any longer, theres no god or if there is he is evil, and those who in front of so much unfairness keep saying god that god which they are no different than a blind abraham willing to murder his son to the comand of the evil god

jayhall0315
01-24-2009, 02:39 PM
Moderators, I am not big on censorship as you know, but this is babbling loony bin stuff.

SeaFireLIV
01-24-2009, 02:47 PM
Didn`t think you believed in God anyway from all your other posts. Faith in God is an on and off thing with most people. I`m certain God`s quite used to people cursing him, then not, then cursing again, then not. It`s Human weakness and he`s an easy one to blame.

...did I just say that?

Dance
01-24-2009, 03:12 PM
Jay, after some time, you will begin to realise Raaaid is the one who keeps the rest of us on the straight and level http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

stalkervision
01-24-2009, 03:39 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
i never could believe in karma since certain things are way too cruel as to be fair

but all these years ive had a hope some faith, what if the world is a pantomine and god rules not allowing certain things that the press would make up, from my perspective it could be true since my experience has been very happy, but those news... there can no be god or he is horrible(or the news false)

but i fought all kind of loony insane names i was given and kept my faith in a good god

i can not keep the self deceivement any longer, theres no god or if there is he is evil, and those who in front of so much unfairness keep saying god that god which they are no different than a blind abraham willing to murder his son to the comand of the evil god

Try believing in the original greek gods buddy. They seem to fit this world better. look them up.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ffb
01-24-2009, 04:54 PM
I must admit that I find it surprising that more sane, logical, intelligent people, who find it difficult to believe in a god, cannot accept the law of karma.
For me it is SO fair and logical. It works the same for everyone, whether they understand it, or believe in it, or not.
Simply the law of cause and effect.... what goes around comes around.... create suffering and you will suffer, and vice-versa.....
Certainly it seems unfair that to the Catholic faith, a person can cause others to suffer, and then be washed of their sins by confession.
I think an evil one like Hilter or Stalin or pol Pot etc. should suffer in hell for a very long time, before being able to rejoin the endless cycle of rebirth...

raaaid
01-24-2009, 05:02 PM
rockefeller now dying from famine in afrika?

i dont know find it kind of cruel to accept it

actually karma is smartest way to explain suffering, i liked better believing extreme suffering was false news, but i dont have other chance than to get cruel and accept karma as the most probable answer

DuxCorvan
01-24-2009, 05:17 PM
People, there's no magic, no fate, no gods, no karma, no evil, no good. Causes and effects.

Just self-aware mammals interacting with a physical world and one with each other. Cause and effect, persons and peoples competing or collaborating, running after their interests or their needs. Causes and effects in a physical universe, just that.

Stop praising or blaming the Arbitrary Potato (http://buttersafe.com/2008/04/15/arbitrary-potato-and-the-most-beautiful-woman-in-the-world/) for the good or bad things that happen. It's just a potato. And things just happen. Accept it.

blairgowrie
01-24-2009, 05:25 PM
This thread is getting weirder by the minute.

SeaFireLIV
01-24-2009, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
People, there's no magic, no fate, no gods, no karma, no evil, no good. Causes and effects.

Just self-aware mammals interacting with a physical world and one with each other. .

Just? JUST?

Doesn`t it even occur as somehow strange that we and only we are self-aware?

And don`t give me that nonsense about dolphins and chimpanzees, you don`t see them writing Shakespeare, painting Art, making rockets or having group discussions on the fallibility of their own kind.

We are self aware, self critical, self appraising. Nothing else apart from US on this planet is.

That stuns me every day. I know most people don`t think about it.


Perhaps this is a topic for another thread.

ffb
01-24-2009, 10:23 PM
I suppose the title of this thread is relevant......

There is no faith in Buddhism... we are told to practise and verify it ourselves, not blindly believe....

Metatron_123
01-24-2009, 11:15 PM
I really hate the idea that we are somehow 'special' on this earth.

Do you think you can quantify how 'special' a life form is by whither or not it can write Shakespeare? Do you think we have 'figured out' all other species on the planet to the point where you have concluded that we are the best, 'the chosen ones'?

It's all subjective. Human achievements are judged by human standards, it doesn't mean that all life has the same standards, it doesn't mean we are the chosen ones. That same intelligence that gives us the ability to write Shakespeare also grants us the inspiration for genocide and the destruction of the environment.

There's nothing wrong with beliefs, but IMHO it's also good to put them in perspective and see that they are simply there to satisfy this need for an explanation we all seem to have.

It's also worth considering how this craving for meaning has been abused over centuries: ''You are slaving in my fields, fighting and dying in my wars, but don't ever question this, turn the other cheek and be rewarded for being a sucker in the next life where there is lots of candy and virgins.''

DuxCorvan
01-25-2009, 04:11 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
People, there's no magic, no fate, no gods, no karma, no evil, no good. Causes and effects.

Just self-aware mammals interacting with a physical world and one with each other. .

Just? JUST?

Doesn`t it even occur as somehow strange that we and only we are self-aware?

And don`t give me that nonsense about dolphins and chimpanzees, you don`t see them writing Shakespeare, painting Art, making rockets or having group discussions on the fallibility of their own kind.

We are self aware, self critical, self appraising. Nothing else apart from US on this planet is.

That stuns me every day. I know most people don`t think about it.


Perhaps this is a topic for another thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just. A chemical billiards cannon. Pure chance, both limited in range and time. Someday, the human species will get extinct like any other else, and other species, sentient or not, will thrive. And there will be none to remember, or care about it.

Qualitatively, in the non-human, universal scope of things, the ability to build cathedrals or write Shakespeare isn't better than the ability to capture flies with a sticky tongue. We are just organic lifeforms evolved from simpler lifeforms, in a tiny round rock, round a tiny star, somewhere in the suburbs of space. We are nothing, just a few steps more complicated than the germs in a sneeze.

That we know it, and can reflex about it, is more for our woe than for real advantage. Being unique does not mean being special. Nor being immortal.

raaaid
01-25-2009, 04:36 AM
i recal with that big sunami that there was a big call saying why god had let that happen

myself i could only believe in god when i didnt believe in the world

now i think probably god doesnt exists or if he does he goes eye for an eye with karma which is very cruel

i was intereseted to see if someone had a theory that could explain the cruelty of this world and nature with the existance of god

come on thats why they had to make the devil up, but thats nonsense

edit:

ive thought about it and i will always try to keep a litle faith and for me that means consider much of this world could be staged

though sounds crazy is my way of having a litle faith, i refuse to become pusilanime:

pusilanime: believing in an arbitrary god

either dux is right and theres no god or im right and extreme evil is staged, believing any other thing of what ive seen so far is being pusilanime, believing in an arbitrary god

ffb
01-25-2009, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:

now i think probably god doesnt exists or if he does he goes eye for an eye with karma which is very cruel

i was intereseted to see if someone had a theory that could explain the cruelty of this world and nature with the existance of god



cannot explain cruelty and believe in a god.... but why should the law of karma be cruel ?
absolutely fair and unbias i would call it...

We are NOT superior animals .... we are not animals.... the human realm is different and distinct from the animal realm

Darwins laws do not apply to humans

TinyTim
01-25-2009, 05:58 AM
Great majority of people have problems believing something only because they don't like it, no matter how logical it is.

Some believe in for example reincarnation simply because they want it to be true, they like the idea so much, and they are to affraid of the opposite, that they will postulate it as a law.

Bremspropeller
01-25-2009, 09:40 AM
Faith and sanity generally don't mix http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

joeap
01-25-2009, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Faith and sanity generally don't mix http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Nonsense, unless you think Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, or Desmond Tutu and I could name others were/are insane.

DuxCorvan
01-25-2009, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by ffb:
Darwins laws do not apply to humans

Agreed. Since the weirdos and the brainless have access to free health care instead of being fed to the predators or kicked into some Spartan hole, the laws of natural selection have been broken to guarantee the survival of the more...ons. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

But we are animals. Wiping after sh*tting does not separate us from the natural realm. And our livers would make an excellent foie gras, if pigs had a word to say about our essence.

Outlaw---
01-25-2009, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
i was intereseted to see if someone had a theory that could explain the cruelty of this world and nature with the existance of god


I've stated my beliefs before in at least one thread that you participated in and at least one other and I wonder why you never responded when you had the chance, but, since you asked AGAIN...

Why do you believe that God has a duty to prevent cruelty in this world?

Why is it so hard for your brain to comprehend (or even think of) the possibility that we are here on this planet to have the chance to EXPERIENCE life in all its forms, good and bad? You look at this life as if it's the pinnacle of existence and therefore we must achieve all we can while we are here. I don't believe that is the case. I believe that this life is somewhat comparable to a semester of school with God presenting the material. It's not an easy course and it's up to us to learn and grow from it. He's not going to force us to do well in the class and many of us will fall short of the goal we had when we started or even, in the worst case, have our semester cut short entirely by a tragedy. Sometimes it will be our fault and sometimes it will be the fault of our fellow students (anyone who has been through a lab class or any group project type class knows the comparison I'm talking about).

Obviously not all of are taking the exact same course and I believe that each of had at least some choice in what kind of situation we would be born into, no matter how horrible it seems once we are here. Looking back we will probably learn more from the horrible parts than from the good parts and we will wonder why we thought they were so horrible at the time.

A very short analogy for your perusal.


--Outlaw.

Airmail109
01-25-2009, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DuxCorvan:
People, there's no magic, no fate, no gods, no karma, no evil, no good. Causes and effects.

Just self-aware mammals interacting with a physical world and one with each other. .

Just? JUST?

Doesn`t it even occur as somehow strange that we and only we are self-aware?

And don`t give me that nonsense about dolphins and chimpanzees, you don`t see them writing Shakespeare, painting Art, making rockets or having group discussions on the fallibility of their own kind.

We are self aware, self critical, self appraising. Nothing else apart from US on this planet is.

That stuns me every day. I know most people don`t think about it.


Perhaps this is a topic for another thread. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We're a function of our Biology. You know Neurologists are a good way into being able to read your thoughts with a souped up MRI scanner. Its quite basic at the moment (like what colour are you thinking of) but getting more advanced by the year.

Bremspropeller
01-25-2009, 01:42 PM
Nonsense, unless you think Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, or Desmond Tutu and I could name others were/are insane.

"Wise" doesn't neccesarily mean "sane".

BoCfuss
01-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nonsense, unless you think Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, or Desmond Tutu and I could name others were/are insane.

"Wise" doesn't neccesarily mean "sane". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who or what is the measuring stick for what is wise or sane?

ffb
01-25-2009, 01:58 PM
Originally posted by BoCfuss:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Nonsense, unless you think Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, or Desmond Tutu and I could name others were/are insane.

"Wise" doesn't neccesarily mean "sane". </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who or what is the measuring stick for what is wise or sane? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we all like to assume that we are wise, and those who disagree with us are insane http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Bremspropeller
01-25-2009, 02:16 PM
Who or what is the measuring stick for what is wise or sane?


Believing in any form of god excludes you from the "sane" club.

You'd better hurry for the "wise" club then!

SeaFireLIV
01-25-2009, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by Bremspropeller:



Believing in any form of god excludes you from the "sane" club.

You'd better hurry for the "wise" club then!


Guess any kind of `wise` discussion is out with you then. It`s your way or the highway. Enjoy your fishing fun.

Bremspropeller
01-25-2009, 02:44 PM
Just another case of somebody turning sour when someone questions the existance of his imaginary friend. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

How many religions do we have, each claiming "the righteous" and "the one and only correct" with rules spoken out by *god*?

Please!

How did those people learn of the existance of their imaginary friends?
Somebody told them.

Yeah, a classic http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Don't you think that engaging in fightings and wars and stuff is quite a little bit *insane*?
You know, fighting a war over something, somebody told he got directly from *god* some twho-thousand years ago...

But hey, I'd gladly watch people smashing their heads when trying to argue why their imaginary friend is better then the other guy's.
Gimme a chair and a cold beer and I'm in for this stuff all day.

ffb
01-25-2009, 03:27 PM
The Buddha neither denied nor confirmed the existence of a god........ because it is irrelevant..
we can only help ourselves by our own efforts (once we know the correct direction to direct those efforts) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

DuxCorvan
01-25-2009, 03:53 PM
my faith is vanishing as my sanity turns back

"As steals the morn upon the night,
And melts the shades away:
So Truth does Fancy's charm dissolve,
And rising Reason puts to flight
The fumes that did the mind involve,
Restoring intellectual day."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZCTBvS47tI http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Feathered_IV
01-25-2009, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Doesn`t it even occur as somehow strange that we and only we are self-aware?

And don`t give me that nonsense about dolphins and chimpanzees, you don`t see them writing Shakespeare, painting Art, making rockets or having group discussions on the fallibility of their own kind.

We are self aware, self critical, self appraising. Nothing else apart from US on this planet is.

We also slaughter our own kind on a prodigious scale. We do nothing when we know there are others dying of disease and starvation that it is within our power to help. We pollute our water, air and land with our own filth, to the point where our long-term survival is unknown. Even when we know this to be true, we continue to do so.

TinyTim
01-25-2009, 04:17 PM
People are generally so affraid of the most logical idea - that we are just a bunch of molecules, that more or less accidentally stick together and will fall apart one day leaving nothing behind - that they are not only able to search for all kinds of possible scenarios, but even go to war and/or kill because of it. Which is logical, since the fear of death is driven by self preservation instinct, one of the strongest instincts of living creatures.

Fear of death is the best tool to control masses. What better way to control people is there than to promise them eternal life, but only if they behave like you want?

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2009, 07:43 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
Doesn`t it even occur as somehow strange that we and only we are self-aware?

And don`t give me that nonsense about dolphins and chimpanzees, you don`t see them writing Shakespeare, painting Art, making rockets or having group discussions on the fallibility of their own kind.

We are self aware, self critical, self appraising. Nothing else apart from US on this planet is.

We also slaughter our own kind on a prodigious scale. We do nothing when we know there are others dying of disease and starvation that it is within our power to help. We pollute our water, air and land with our own filth, to the point where our long-term survival is unknown. Even when we know this to be true, we continue to do so. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guess you missed this bit that I wrote:

on the fallibility of their own kind.

In fact, all of you seems to have missed the point entirely. I did not say we were superior. Please, show me where I said that. Of course, neither did I say we were not superior, but this was not the point of what I said.

Bremspropeller said: "Just another case of somebody turning sour when someone questions the existance of his imaginary friend."


Another nonsense comment and one as blinkered and blinded as those he accuses as blinded.

Amazing the assumptions and fear I see here, even if you don`t admit it. I think you find it easier to throw out anything you cannot quantify with feel and touch since it would SCARE the living daylights out of you if it turned out there was something else. As with most people.

Because, what if there really was a God, what, Bremspropeller, what Duxcorvan, what aimail, just what if, God really did exist and made it all possible?

Point is, it seems to me, we are unique, no matter how much you may, or may not like it.

Of course, I`ll be lambasted as an idiot, a fantasy man, a fairy-taler... maybe I am.

I just don`t assume that we, on our small planet, know of everything in our existence.

Blood_Splat
01-26-2009, 08:03 AM
Well I believe in a after life. Call it the spirit world or heaven doesn't matter. My sister and I were visited by my deceased grandfather when we were smaller. I remember him coming down the hallway and stopping at the end of the couch where we were sitting. He then just vanished, I think he knew he scared the heck out of us. This happened two weeks after he passed away. My sister and I told our mom on are way to school and my mom was so afraid to go back to the house again after dropping us off.

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2009, 08:11 AM
Originally posted by Blood_Splat:
Well I believe in a after life. Call it the spirit world or heaven doesn't matter. My sister and I were visited by my deceased grandfather when we were smaller. I remember him coming down the hallway and stopping at the end of the couch where we were sitting. He then just vanished, I think he knew he scared the heck out of us. This happened two weeks after he passed away. My sister and I told our mom on are way to school and my mom was so afraid to go back to the house again after dropping us off.

I had a similar one when I was very little. My dad, instead of getting scared, just got angry and scared it away. He wasn`t having any spook about his house.

Bremspropeller
01-26-2009, 08:20 AM
Because, what if there really was a God, what, Bremspropeller, what Duxcorvan, what aimail, just what if, God really did exist and made it all possible?

What if this *god* isn't bothered at all?

As long as I don't have any PROOF - apart from somebody telling me something - why should I live to the rules somebody just made up?

Don't tell me this is BS.

Tell the Pope and his friends.
People that have never touched a woman (lots of little boys, though) are telling other people to stay abstinent and that using a condom was a sin.
LOL.
Are those people freggin nuts?
They're helping spreading one of the most dangerous and deadly diseases of the world (so much for doing "good" to people), because they think they're acting in the sense of "god".

Now there are two possibilities:

If "god" approves this behaviour - why bothering about "god" at all, as it would be proven he doesn't give a feck about me - let aone even "love" me.

If "god" disapproves that, why following these people at all?
And why is "god" letting those people speak in his name?

In a nutshell:

Even IF there WAS a "god", he wouldn't care sh1t about me.
Why shouly I care sh1t about him then?
Because he "created" me?
Thanks, but I stopped believing in Santa before hitting 1st grade.

Because he "created" the world?
LoL.
Sorry, but if THIS is all he could do, thanks - "god", you pretty much fecked it up!


Now if you still want to talk me into being blindfolded, fine.
At least I'm not the one, believing in a science-fiction-book, called the Bible, the Q'ran or the Thora (there are others, maybe you've herad about a guy called "Hubbard" - now this guy really hit home!
Talk about the perfection of phishing tards...)

I actually think, poeple should believe in what they want.
As long as they don't freggin try to tell me stuff about their "god" and how much he loves me.
Keep your thoughts to yourself and everybody will be fine.
No wars, no misery and no dead people out of fighting about who has the cooles imaginary friend.

SeaFireLIV
01-26-2009, 08:31 AM
There is so much in there that misses the mark and I could take each part of your statements apart and explain where you are seeing things wrong (By the way I`m not Catholic christian).

Anyway, I have no wish to, nor am I preaching to anybody here. I was just saying that anyone with a curious mind must sometimes wonder upon these things... Or maybe I`m just different.

One thing I will say, is that, in Christianity, you are allowed your choice not to believe, so there you go.

Bremspropeller
01-26-2009, 08:45 AM
I could take each part of your statements apart and explain where you are seeing things wrong

See what I mean?

Thanks for the example.


One thing I will say, is that, in Christianity, you are allowed your choice not to believe, so there you go.

REALLY?

Wow, ever heard of the inquisition?

LEBillfish
01-26-2009, 09:25 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
i never could ........the evil god

Nice to see your english language skills have returned.....past that, nothing to say...

K2

iroseland
01-26-2009, 09:43 AM
I think this video sums it all up for me.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S88PFqRt7q4


BSS_AIJO