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walsh2509
06-10-2005, 07:54 PM
What do you think!

I say that the "faustian pact" between some game publishers / game developers and the hardware industry is getting beyond the pale now!


( Am I p*$$ed off that I can't play the Battlefield 2 demo, well yes! but it is more than that)

In my mind and to my eye SHIII is a state of the art game with great graphics, (ok I can't see the game in its full glory, but what I can see with my GF4 TI4200 128MB card is above and beyond what I could have hoped for, thank you dev team).

If I want to play BF2 I would have to fork out between 120/150 for a "new for me" card and that would "only" allow for Minimum Specification, if I want the full blast I would have to spend around the 350 mark for a top of the range card.


If this is to be the trend for this years latest titles, then I can see more than a few gamers in my bracket dropping out of PC gaming. In the long run this can't be good for the game developers, in what would be low to medium spec video card owners not spending on there games and only the top bracket (those PC oweners who have units to the higher end of medium to the top end users ) being able to run these games...


Ok I know life goes on and only the strongest survive and all that! up till now low med and top end users have enjoyed PC games, but if BF2 is going to be the norm where only the newer cards can run them, then as I said, hundreds of potential customers if not thousands will be lost to these game developers.

walsh2509
06-10-2005, 07:54 PM
What do you think!

I say that the "faustian pact" between some game publishers / game developers and the hardware industry is getting beyond the pale now!


( Am I p*$$ed off that I can't play the Battlefield 2 demo, well yes! but it is more than that)

In my mind and to my eye SHIII is a state of the art game with great graphics, (ok I can't see the game in its full glory, but what I can see with my GF4 TI4200 128MB card is above and beyond what I could have hoped for, thank you dev team).

If I want to play BF2 I would have to fork out between 120/150 for a "new for me" card and that would "only" allow for Minimum Specification, if I want the full blast I would have to spend around the 350 mark for a top of the range card.


If this is to be the trend for this years latest titles, then I can see more than a few gamers in my bracket dropping out of PC gaming. In the long run this can't be good for the game developers, in what would be low to medium spec video card owners not spending on there games and only the top bracket (those PC oweners who have units to the higher end of medium to the top end users ) being able to run these games...


Ok I know life goes on and only the strongest survive and all that! up till now low med and top end users have enjoyed PC games, but if BF2 is going to be the norm where only the newer cards can run them, then as I said, hundreds of potential customers if not thousands will be lost to these game developers.

MouseNo47
06-11-2005, 03:05 AM
Its a case of - you want something better, something new, then the cost is raw pc power.
I can run sh3 with average settings and it goes at about 20-30fps. But i deal with it until i can upgrade.

Siliconchild
06-11-2005, 09:58 AM
I have been gaming for the last 15 years and the issues of hardware upgrades has never changed.
As a hobby gaming is pretty cheap. A great gaming rig runs about 3000 Canadian plus or minus 500 depending on how much you feel the need to brag.
3000 is a really cheap price when that PC will last you two to three years with an odd upgrade here or there. Add 600 a year for high speed internet and say another 600 to a thousand a year for games if you buy 10 or more.
So will we use a ball park figure of startup costs of 3000 and a 3 year cost of 6500. This can be done for half that price, but were talking the higher end of the gaming junkie. Seems like a lot for 3 years worth of entertainment.
Now lets look at my other hobby Motocross. 9000 for the bike, 2000 in gear\helmet\etc. 1500 in tools. 1500 to 3000 a year in parts\gas etc. I would be lucky to get 3 years out of my bike. Added to all this, I have to travel to use the bike and enter races, time off work for injuries, and I can't use it in the winter. Not well at any rate. Keep in mind I am a complete amateur but spending 3000 grand on a PC is uber cheap compared to the 15000 to 20000 for racing every two years or so.
Game companies don't loose people when they make games look bigger and offer more, they gain more. Look at how main stream E3 was this year. Gaming is the biggest cash market in entertainment and getting bigger all the time.
Only a mother or a die hard gamer could love games like X com Red Barron Silent Hunter Zork etc. Those games were not pretty or interesting to the average person on the street. Not many people wanted to be labeled with the geek nerd tag that game with computers. Hardware and games have gotten much much more user friendly in the last few years. Anyone remember DOS? In order to play games in the "old" days you needed quite a few skills in order to get anything to run on your system.
The good news is if you don't want to stay in touch with the latest game you have at least 20 years worth of great games that you will always be able to play on your PC wtihout having to upgrade a thing.
Child.

walsh2509
06-11-2005, 11:21 AM
I do agree , and I'm only moaning because I have no money to upgrade my PC.

But when you think of it, only a small percentage of games push these cards. The vast majority of games sold never scratch the surface power of these top cards...

But along comes a few game houses and they bring out a new or next version of game (and they only make so only the very best cards can run it. Thus forcing Joe Public to lash out 350+ (UK) if you they to play these new or next instalment games.

If at the moment they can code for 3 different levels of card High / Med / Low, then there is nothing to stop them doing it for games like BF2.

Unless they have a deal with card manufacturers to keep these new game to the higher end cards and as I said , thus forcing the public to buy these cards if they want to continue playing the new or next instalment of games they have been playing.

Siliconchild
06-11-2005, 01:30 PM
I know what you mean about extra cash for gaming. I try and put away 50 a month and ignore all the new stuff until 6 months are up, then I start looking at what would give me the best bang for my buck. Right now I am upgrading my RAM to 1024 Kingston Hyper X DDR 400. Looking back I kinda wish I had not gone with this RAM as it is priced at 2x standard RAM. I think 2 gigs of RAM would be better than a gig of the elite stuff. I could go with another brand but would be stuck with 2 sticks of 256mb and it would be really hard to find a buyer for used RAM in my area.
Not many of the High end games are really that great. They get a lot of press, but in the end the gameplay tends to suck. Case in point was Doom 3, sure we waited years for it and it was one of the most over hyped games to come out last year. So when all was said and done, it looked nice, when every wasn't dark, but I played the game back in 95 and a thousand clones since. Doom 3 didn't give me anything new, it was pretty but I got bored pretty quick. Half Life 2 was the only game that lived up the hype and the Dev's at Valve took the time to code the game so it would run on the "older" systems. Most companies don't have the time to put so much love into the game. They have deadlines, bosses, shareholders and etc. Battlefield 2 looks really nice, but only time will tell if the gameplay holds out. For me if I can't play the game the day it comes out, I don't mind waiting 6 months or so till I upgrade. The game will be better, more bugs fixed and more mods, bigger community etc.
When I put my sys together I was on a budget, so I didn't go for the maxed out $700 card. At the time it was the ATI 9800 Pro. Here we are a year and a half later and you can find that card for $200 or less. I can't think of any game that a 9800 won't run really well. Spending $700 or more on a video card just gives you bragging rights that you have more money than brains. I would rather have a 23" moniter, 2 gig's of RAM and a mid level vid card.
The game I play the most, as in an hour or two every day for over a year is America's army. The game is free and the graphic's are not cutting edge, but still quite good. The gameplay is amazing and the community at large are friendly online and off. Think Slilent Hunter 3 but First person shooter. There have had issues with bugs and cheaters in the past and the current version is not that great, but the Dev's give us patches and keep adding to the game over time. It's more of thinking man's FPS than any other game out there. Not many people have heard about it, but 5.3 million people have created accounts and there are at least a million die hard players playing 24/7. It is well worth checking out, but be warned it's very, very addictive.
Child.

Mylo42
06-11-2005, 05:54 PM
I have a nice little collection of older games that my PC runs great. I'll come back to them time and again as I still find them entertaining if my rig can't handle the "latest and greatest".

Every once in a while, a game comes out that "forces" me to upgrade. The last one of which was NASCAR Racing 2003 Season. SHIII would also be one of those games but my rig handles it just fine.

As for dollar value, I agree completely in that PC gaming is cheap....relatively speaking. If I was to calculate what it costs me per hour to entertain myself with PC gaming, it would be low. That's with upgrading every 3 years or so. Definately one of the benefits is that rain, shine, winter, summer, day, night...a person can PC game from the comforts of their home.

My other "vices" include model railroading (I've got about $10,000 into that), R/C "stuff" (I've got about another $10,000 into that), and my 1:1 scale Camaro (I've got about $35,000 into that). All of a sudden $5000 for a PC and all the games is starting to sound like a bargain, especially when I use the PC more than all the other stuff put together.

Someone once said: "The cost of living isn't expensive. The cost of enjoying it is." (I can't remember where that comes from).

Game on....

Siliconchild
06-11-2005, 08:07 PM
5000 bucks?! Thats like what 9000 Canadian? Thats one monster rig. You could buy two maxed out dream rigs from Falcon Northwest or Alienware for that kinda change.
Between the house, gf, pets, car and day to day living I am lucky if can swing an extra thousand a year for me. Now if I could get my gf into gaming...
I went for PC gaming over a wicked stereo\tv combo because as you said way more hours on a PC than watching a movie. Plus movies and Tv bore me on average.
Hardware has gotten cheaper over the last few years than it ever has before. Stuff seems to be getting more powerful by leaps and bounds. I remember it took almost two years to go from the 350mhz to a 1gig chip, now it seems like we go almost a gig a year. AMD says they will reach the limits of silicon tech by the year 2017. Intel says they are stopping at the 5 or 6 gig mark by 2007 2008 and focusing on smaller chips that can fit into every day items. Yeah sure, right up until the point AMD launches the 8gig chipset and then it's back to the races.
There has always been a race between hardware and software. There isn't a game out there that can use the most hardcore hardware out there.
I think the soft spot is on the part of the game companies, too many seem to be trying to cash in on the rise in the market and kicking out games too fast. I doubt anyone here can say SH3 couldn't have used another 3 or 4 months of tweaking before we started pulling out our hair from all the bugs. I know I have lost some sweet missions due a crash to desktop. I save every time I start something "interesting" in SH3, but still.
The thing I worry about are the smaller indy game companies may get pushed aside by the guys. Then again ID was tiny and MS and activision had both rejected a game they had called Doom and they did ok in the end. Guess it's all an ebb and flow thing. I think we have just entered the 3rd generation of gaming with games like Doom3 HL2 Far cry. The games that come from those engines should blow our doors off. Games are getting closer to what I have always wanted in games since the fist days of 386 gaming. Sure there were games before that and good ones to, but nothing that really showed what could be done. The future of PC entertainment is brighter than it has ever been before, and I am happy to be sitting on the edge of that wave with my eyes wide open in wonder. A new game or piece of hardware can make me feel like it's xmas and I am five years old again.
Child.