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View Full Version : Development Prejudice in favor of Onliners



weaselwagon1
03-26-2007, 07:54 AM
I have read that the development team caters to online gamers concerns of "cheating" while flying online,for this reason they are not going to allow 3rd party developers the opportunity to finish off the list of significant aircraft that were actually flown(KI44,Spit MKXIV,P47M,etc) or aircraft that were immediately pending before the end of the war.If online gamers are so concerned with cheating affecting their reality immersion to the point that the game is now seemingly locked and finished,I for one fly 99% percent of the time offline precisely because the online missions are so unrealistic to me if i'm flying a 109 and my wingmen are in a mixed bag of P51's,Zeros and Biplanes wearing customized skins of NASCAR racers.I fly simply for fun online and have a good laugh when i get killed.I would think that a significant majority of the buyers of this game play much less than half of the time online.The opinions you hear in the forum will by nature tend to be of onliners.Let the 3rd party developers have a shot at this game,Dont worry,theres plenty more money for you to make from it!

PBNA-Boosher
03-26-2007, 08:07 AM
Sorry Weaselwagon. Ain't gonna happen. One of the reasons that this game stayed at such a premium quality all these years is because the source code was never released outside of the 1C offices. It is because of this that we don't have the problems of open code games, like CFS2.

Now... about the aircraft you mentioned. You will never get a P-47M, Spit Mk. XIV, or a Ki-44 in this game. Why? You didn't make them. Nobody else did, or at least, not up to the standards required for this game. 3rd party developers were a big part of these addons, and many of their contributions help out single-player quite a lot.

The deadline for new aircraft was ages ago my friend. It won't happen. Start thinking about the Storm of War Series, enjoy what we have.

Next!

Jaws2002
03-26-2007, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
I have read that the development team caters to online gamers concerns of "cheating" while flying online,for this reason they are not going to allow 3rd party developers the opportunity to finish off the list of significant aircraft that were actually flown(KI44,Spit MKXIV,P47M,etc) or aircraft that were immediately pending before the end of the war.If online gamers are so concerned with cheating affecting their reality immersion to the point that the game is now seemingly locked and finished,I for one fly 99% percent of the time offline precisely because the online missions are so unrealistic to me if i'm flying a 109 and my wingmen are in a mixed bag of P51's,Zeros and Biplanes wearing customized skins of NASCAR racers.I fly simply for fun online and have a good laugh when i get killed.I would think that a significant majority of the buyers of this game play much less than half of the time online.The opinions you hear in the forum will by nature tend to be of onliners.Let the 3rd party developers have a shot at this game,Dont worry,theres plenty more money for you to make from it!


It won't happen in this game. next one may be a bit more laxed in this respect.

On the other hand i have to tell you that you are flying in the wrong servers if that is your online experience.

You can't judge the online experience from your limited online flying in the wrong servers.

You seem to like a more historical mission. Well there are a lot of great servers out there that rotate historical missions only.

Try one of this servers and will change your oppinion about this game's online experience:

- Historia
- Winds of War
- Uk Dedicated 1/2/3 ( three servers with different difficulty setings, all using awesome historical match ups)
- 102nd_COOP_dedicated ( automated coop server rotating historical missions)
- Zekes vs Wildcats
- Spits vs 109's

and so many other.

Ah by the way I hope you fly on Hyperlobby. The Ubi.com game room is not where we fly online.


you can get Hyperlobby client here:

http://hyperfighter.sk/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=8

JG53Frankyboy
03-26-2007, 08:58 AM
Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
I have read that the development team caters to online gamers concerns of "cheating" while flying online,for this reason they are not going to allow 3rd party developers the opportunity to finish off the list of significant aircraft that were actually flown(KI44,Spit MKXIV,P47M,etc) or aircraft that were immediately pending before the end of the war.If online gamers are so concerned with cheating affecting their reality immersion to the point that the game is now seemingly locked and finished,I for one fly 99% percent of the time offline precisely because the online missions are so unrealistic to me if i'm flying a 109 and my wingmen are in a mixed bag of P51's,Zeros and Biplanes wearing customized skins of NASCAR racers.I fly simply for fun online and have a good laugh when i get killed.I would think that a significant majority of the buyers of this game play much less than half of the time online.The opinions you hear in the forum will by nature tend to be of onliners.Let the 3rd party developers have a shot at this game,Dont worry,theres plenty more money for you to make from it!

unfortunatly you missed the VOW1&2 online wars, at least them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif . these were COOP based online event were the airwar of the WW2 was tried to show - VOW2 had 3 fronts running, ETO/MTO, Eastern Front and PTO - was a nice time, but now its gone http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

our old "commercial" of VOW2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KM9mNCURhW0

XyZspineZyX
03-26-2007, 08:58 AM
A few points to consider:

There is no list.
There are servers that fly the 46 stuff online too.
There are other servers out there that are more historic based(pointed out by Jaws)

rnzoli
03-26-2007, 11:09 AM
I have read that the development team caters to online gamers concerns of "cheating" while flying online,for this reason [...]
Don't believe everything you read on the Internet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I know that LEXX_Luthor cannot miss a chance to spread such information, but most of his information is outdated and he is presenting them in a severely biased manner (because he is one of the aspiring 3rd party developers). Some things are actually coming from 3rd party modellers, but the inner game engine is a sacred and secret thing for very good reasons.


the online missions are so unrealistic to me You are definitely flying on the wrong servers in the wrong missions then. Plenty of choices exist for totally immersive, historic missions, and probably online campaigns and wars are the best at creating the deepest immersion.


I would think that a significant majority of the buyers of this game play much less than half of the time online.
This may be outdated information, given the developments related to Internet and broadband. Online performance is a strong selling point and keeps a vibrant community together for an otherwise old sim/game, which truly outlived its life expectancy. I am quite certain that it wouldn't have been a case, without the ability to fly both offline and offline (I do both).

fordfan25
03-26-2007, 11:27 AM
try warclouds. we need freash pilots im sick of shooting down thay same guys over and over http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

weaselwagon1
03-26-2007, 11:48 AM
Jaws thanks for the lead on the right lobby...it would still have been nice to finish off the list of fighters though!

p-11.cAce
03-26-2007, 01:12 PM
I fly 12-15 hours a week online with various members of my squad - there are guys that fly there much more than that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif but most fly about as much as I do...try out a few more servers and you will be surprised by just how many "flight hours" are put into this sim online every week!

Xiolablu3
03-26-2007, 01:24 PM
Listen to Jaws good advice, mate.

SOme great servers out there where people fly historical missions and they often feel very realistic.

A personal favourite is Hastings on UKded2, simulating British coast Jabo raids by the Luftwaffe in 1941.

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php...6&highlight=hastings (http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/showthread.php?t=10896&highlight=hastings)

BLUE Brief
We are launching a surprise daylight reprisal raid on a coastal town. Destroy as many vehicles as possible and any large buildings including the pier, the theatre behind it and the gasworks. We must also cover the evacuation of some Kreigsmarine minelayers offshore being helped by fast patrol boats and floatplanes.
(ATTACK AN5 DEFEND AO5)
RED Brief
Scramble!, Enemy planes have been spotted headed to attack the seafront, The C.O's favourite Golf course is here and we must prevent widespread damage. Additional, Coastal Command has damaged a minelayer offshore destroy it and any other enemy units nearby.
(ATTACK AO5 DEFEND AN5)
PLANES
RED
BuffaloMkI
HurricaneMkIIb
HurricaneMkIIc
TomahawkMkIIb
SpitfireMkVc2*limit30*
BLUE
Bf-109E-4/B
Bf-109E-7
Bf-109E-7Z
Bf-109F-2
Bf-109F-4*limit30*
Ju-87B-2

I love 109F vs Spitfire V maps.

Take a look through the different map development threads and give you opinion on the planesets and balance here :-

http://www.battle-fields.com/commscentre/forumdisplay.php?f=70

Or even submit your own maps.

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-26-2007, 02:30 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
You seem to like a more historical mission. Well there are a lot of great servers out there that rotate historical missions only.

Try one of these servers and it will change your opinion about this game's online experience:

- Historia
- Winds of War
- Uk Dedicated 1/2/3 ( three servers with different difficulty setings, all using awesome historical match ups)
- 102nd_COOP_dedicated ( automated coop server rotating historical missions)
- Zekes vs Wildcats
- Spits vs 109's

and so many other.

Ah by the way I hope you fly on Hyperlobby. The Ubi.com game room is not where we fly online.


you can get Hyperlobby client here:

http://hyperfighter.sk/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=getit&lid=8

Sage advice. You can also use AllSeeingEye if Hyperlobby doesn't float your boat. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-26-2007, 02:47 PM
Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
Jaws thanks for the lead on the right lobby...it would still have been nice to finish off the list of fighters though!

Please, if you have access to such a list post it here. For as far as I am concerned, there never was and never will be a "list". Alot of people think that Oleg and 1C had a list of planes to cross off before moving on to anything else. Yet I dont understand why.

weaselwagon1
03-26-2007, 03:15 PM
"List" was not intended to mean that the guy had a piece of paper in his pocket that he was checking off with a crayon with each update."List" in this case means Combat aircraft in use at the time of the Second world war,particulary Fighters.It would be nice to include trainer bi-planes,Flying saucers,flying boats,transports and Frisbees in there,but whats more cool to say-" I fly P-51"s" or "I fly Catalinas"?And since the sim is supposed to be WW2 based how about using development time on WW2 aircraft that were used operationally instead of Sopwith Camels and F117 stealth fighters?

Jaws2002
03-26-2007, 03:26 PM
You see not all this aircraft were made by Oleg and his team. Many of the planes we take for granted today were developed fully or in part by third party modelers.
Planes like Spitfire, BF-110, Tempest, Gladiator, Gota flying wing, IAR-80/81, Ju-88, the machis were all done (or had the pit done) by third pary.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

If it wasn't for this modelers we would have a lot less then what we have today. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

I'll tell you one thing tho. no other game have/had so many WW2 planes. Trust me we are spoiled.
Look at aces high. they are runing for over six years and have just a bunch of plane most of them really ugly low detail old models.

ImpStarDuece
03-26-2007, 03:42 PM
Fighters missing from Il-2/FB/PF/46 in terms of production (you decide what is important):

Typhoon IA/B: 3330
Ju 88C/R: ~3100
Ki-45: 1701
P-38F: 526
P-38G: 1082
P-38H: 601
He 219: 294
Me 210: 619
Me 410: 110
A5M: 1054
Ki-44: 1225
P-51/A-36: 1,738
P-51H: 555
P-61A/B: 650
Potez 63: 1360
Re.2000/2002: 583
Re.2001: 252
P-47M: 130
P-47N: 1816
P-47C: 602
P-43: 273
Spitfire Mk I/II: 2,488
Spitfire Mk XII: 100
Spitfire XIV: 957
F4U-4: 2,357
Westland Whirlwind: 114
B 534: 500
Aircomet: 66
Meteor I/III: 221
Boomerang: 250
P-36/Hawk-75: 1424
D.520: 921
Fulmar: 600
Firefly: 1623
G.55: 212
D. XXI: 146
MB 152: 482

FritzGryphon
03-26-2007, 03:45 PM
Development Prejudice in favor of Not Sucking.

Besides, any serious 3rd party guy is workng on planes for BoB now. Many of the mythical 'third party' people are now working for MG or RRG or other projects. IL-2 was a training tool for many people, and possible only by the high standards and support offered by MG.

IL-2 will be remembered as that old game where you couldn't change the weather settings or damage flaps.

weaselwagon1
03-26-2007, 10:08 PM
How about the ones on the list that saw the most important action?We can exclude types that are visually identical and therefore redundant.
Start with the KI44-critically important B29 interceptor,Spit MK XIV,sure we have spits now but the MK XIV was completely different looking because of the motor,etc...we can basically eliminate the French stuff and the types that never saw action...

Bearcat99
03-26-2007, 11:02 PM
You are digging up and RE-beating a rotting decomposing horse....

I don't know of any WWII sim where every significant plane that flew in the war is modelled.... and modelled well. Not one. It kills me when folks come here with this list of stuff that "should" be here and isn't. It isnt anywhere else either... and if it is as I said.. it isn't done well. We may not have everything here... and I will be the first one to chime in and smack the torp bomber horse again. But it isnt here. It more than likely will never be..... it is what it is... so enjoy what you have.... and prepare to be wowed with BoB.... I will e shocked if we all arent. If we can get all this froma 10+ year old engine... then I can barely imagine what BoB will bring.

Aside from the servers mentioned... there are some great coops running out there as well. We run ours all the time and we aren't lacking for live pilots. Most of the coops are historically accurate.. at least where you mentioned... you wont see Spits shooting down Mustangs.... Unless perhaps it is a captured one that the enemy came upon.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif and then it would be one.... or two at the most. Feel free to hop into a 99th Coop anytime.

BadA1m
03-26-2007, 11:13 PM
Originally posted by FritzGryphon:
Development Prejudice in favor of Not Sucking.



ROTFL......Amen brodah!

BadA1m
03-26-2007, 11:21 PM
Just look at what we've got, It's incredible. I bought the original IL'2 the day it came out (literally). The other day a plane came up in a coop mission that I had never flown, and I know there are more, and I still find myself or one of my squaddies saying "wow, check that out" about something or another in the game.

I'm satisfied.

ImpStarDuece
03-27-2007, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
How about the ones on the list that saw the most important action?We can exclude types that are visually identical and therefore redundant.
Start with the KI44-critically important B29 interceptor,Spit MK XIV,sure we have spits now but the MK XIV was completely different looking because of the motor,etc...we can basically eliminate the French stuff and the types that never saw action...

Would the Typhoon I be more important than the Spitfire Mk I/II, or the Ki-45 more important than the Ki-44? And which ones saw more action? Would you rather an early P-51 in RAF service or the late Mk XIV, which actually flew with less war time squadrons for a shorter overall duration?

Is the Meteor, the only Allied jet to see squadron service in WW2, more or less important than the Westland Whirlwind, the only British twin engined, single seat fighter?

Why is a Ki-44 necessarily more important than a Faiery Firefly, or a Hawk-75?

The D.520 definately saw more action over a longer period of service than the P-47M or He-219, but is the primary French fighter type of WW2 more important or less important than these late war planes?

How does one judge such a thing?

PB0_shadow
03-27-2007, 04:00 AM
Originally posted by weaselwagon1:
How about the ones on the list that saw the most important action?We can exclude types that are visually identical and therefore redundant.
Start with the KI44-critically important B29 interceptor,Spit MK XIV,sure we have spits now but the MK XIV was completely different looking because of the motor,etc...we can basically eliminate the French stuff and the types that never saw action...

Your last sentence shows your own prejudice and some lack of knowledge.

As for "historical missions", try coops instead of dogfights, that would be a step in the right direction...

weaselwagon1
03-27-2007, 09:30 AM
Sorry.I was mistaken and thought that ac like Spits,KI44'S,HE219'S,JU88'S and Tempests just might have saw a tiny bit more action in Major Operations involving Heavy Bomber interception with hundreds of thousands of lives at stake or Tactical Ground support in the ETO,knocking out Tigers with 60lb rockets.I can see now that the French AC were much more important

x6BL_Brando
03-27-2007, 09:56 AM
Sorry.....I can see now that the French AC were much more important

Uh oh, irony inbound! Hit the trenches men!

The truth is, we've had more than anyone ever expected out of this sim - more planes than all the previous prop-sim games ever released. There are some notable gaps, sure, but more than enough to keep most of us very happy.

Enjoy what you have in your half-full glass http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

B

roybaty
03-27-2007, 10:06 AM
I haven't been online in a while, but flying with a squad of like-minded people is key. Many historical squads out there who use custom period accurate skins/markings/tactics/missions.

In short squad up if you want to get the most from the online experience.

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-27-2007, 10:14 AM
The offline campaigns are fun and an occassional diversion. The fact is, this sim reaches it fullest glory online.

I started several campaigns in single-player mode and actually completed one. I have maybe 15 hours of offline play since IL2 original was released and probably 1500 hours online.

But that's just me.


TB

jasonbirder
03-27-2007, 12:11 PM
Sorry.I was mistaken and thought that ac like Spits,KI44'S,HE219'S,JU88'S and Tempests just might have saw a tiny bit more action in Major Operations involving Heavy Bomber interception with hundreds of thousands of lives at stake or Tactical Ground support in the ETO,knocking out Tigers with 60lb rockets.I can see now that the French AC were much more important

Of course they are! You just have to realise that to many of the people that play FB/AEP/PF the war didn't start until 1944...

Jaws2002
03-27-2007, 12:19 PM
Offline is like having sex...without a partner. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

XyZspineZyX
03-27-2007, 01:19 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Offline is like having sex...without a partner. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

http://www.amishintheburgh.com/assets/images/Master_Baiter.gif

Actually weasel, the Tempest probably saw less action than some french fighters did. But thats not the point.

Point is, I'd like to have a Spit XIV, Meteor and a Typhoon just as much as you do, but have accepted that it is an impossibility and moved on. The trouble with this series is that it isnt a simulator that has a set of solid rules. It started out as an Eastern Front only sim, but then planes were added as modelers submitted them. But now, ALL resources have been moved to the future series, and this simulator while it may look incomplete is not going to get any further additions. Accept that and all will be good. I seem to remember a good response from one of the sim's developpers which sort of went like this:

"You want more planes in this sim? Make them!"

p-11.cAce
03-27-2007, 01:55 PM
Offline is like having sex...without a partner.

Ok new best post EVER http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

VMF-214_HaVoK
03-27-2007, 02:20 PM
online missions are so unrealistic to me if i'm flying a 109 and my wingmen are in a mixed bag of P51's,Zeros and Biplanes wearing customized skins of NASCAR racers

Well it seems the times you have played online you flew in the wrong servers. You opted for the arcade bag of fun when there are many very good and historic servers to choose from. Also dont forget coops, there are many who fly only coops. Next time your on Hyperlobby I recommend you fly in the following servers for an enjoyable experience.

Zekes vs Wildcats
Spits vs 109s
Winds of War
UK Dedicated 2 (has externals on)
Historia

S~

Bearcat99
03-27-2007, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
The truth is, we've had more than anyone ever expected out of this sim - more planes than all the previous prop-sim games ever released. There are some notable gaps, sure, but more than enough to keep most of us very happy.
Enjoy what you have in your half-full glass http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
B

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif