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chunkydora
06-23-2008, 12:37 PM
I've become vaguely decent at BnZ tactics in the stang (I destroy something every now and again) but my problem is when somebody gets on my six. This usually happens after a post-attack zoom climb, when I'm not yet back up to speed and they've been waiting at the higher altitude. The P-51 simply seems incapable of hard manuevers like I use to escape fire in TnB fighters. If I try to roll and rudder my way out or force an overshoot I always tumble into a spin. Any advice, or is it as simple as always knowing exactly who is capable of getting on your six?

JtD
06-23-2008, 12:39 PM
In the P-51 you really need speed to do something decent.

TinyTim
06-23-2008, 12:52 PM
You can either outmaneouver or outdive almost any pursuer in a P-51. The only exceptions that cross my mind in this moment are the Dora and Raiden. They are both more maneouverable and better divers. Mc205 can be dangerous in this regard as well.

Also keep in mind that in a horisontal extending after a dive, P-51 will hold speed like no other (with closed rads that is).

idonno
06-23-2008, 12:55 PM
When the other guy has maneuvering airspeed and you don't, there's only one thing to do. DIVE!

That may not be all it takes to get out of trouble, but it will give you the speed you need to have any chance of shaking the enemy.

Wildnoob
06-23-2008, 01:04 PM
it depends on wich aircraft you are figthing.

in ETO against 109's, I recommend that you full open your trottle and dive away. fly for about 1 or 2 minutes at full power in level fligth and you should loose the pursuiter 109.

against 190's you can outrun the models from A series at high altitude, but not in a dive. figthing these models at low and medium altitude is necessary to apply standard dogfigth evasive tactics. against the FW-190 D9 at all altitudes the same.

in the Pacific, the same tactics I cited for the BF-109 can be used against the KI-43, Zero and KI-61. against the KI-100, KI-84, JM2 and N1K2 you should not figth at lower and medium altitude with the KI-100, KI-84 and N1K2. try figth at high altitude with these using hit and run tactics. against the JM2 it doens't have a significant week point, and you should always try figth with him in teams, because he is more agile and almost equaly faster at all altitudes. but a good teamwork should be enough to figth it

K_Freddie
06-23-2008, 02:33 PM
Tactics.. look around first, especially upwards and behind, before you BnZ.
Stay just below the 6500m mark I think it is... that height where vapour trails start http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

VW-IceFire
06-23-2008, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by chunkydora:
I've become vaguely decent at BnZ tactics in the stang (I destroy something every now and again) but my problem is when somebody gets on my six. This usually happens after a post-attack zoom climb, when I'm not yet back up to speed and they've been waiting at the higher altitude. The P-51 simply seems incapable of hard manuevers like I use to escape fire in TnB fighters. If I try to roll and rudder my way out or force an overshoot I always tumble into a spin. Any advice, or is it as simple as always knowing exactly who is capable of getting on your six?
You can do mostly the same movess in a P-51 as you can in the TNB planes but its on more of a knife edge between being able to do it and stalling right out on you. This part of the FM I question a bit but that aside you just have to spend some time, preferably offline, doing stalls and getting a feel for the plane.

Mostly the P-51 can evade by diving...most planes cannot catch it except for a couple of really superb aircraft. And once you've dove level out gently and notice how the P-51 does not bleed speed at all while traveling in a straight line. It can escape most opponents...especially if you can keep some height...above 1000m you can usually escape anyone after diving...down on the deck its a bit harder.

Altitude, speed, and a steady hand are the keys to this plane. Get used it to it and you'll be fine. Might be worth retracing some of the Mustang Ace's steps by flying the P-39 for a while which, although different, will train you to think about stalls because in the P-39 it will spin...while with the Mustang it usually can regain control on its own.

Aaron_GT
06-23-2008, 04:03 PM
This part of the FM I question a bit

The P-51 had a nasty accelerated stall due to the laminar flow wings (boundary layer separation was abrupt), so the FM makes sense. It's milder in IL2 than some other WW2 sims, worse than in others.

VW-IceFire
06-23-2008, 08:22 PM
Originally posted by Aaron_GT:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">This part of the FM I question a bit

The P-51 had a nasty accelerated stall due to the laminar flow wings (boundary layer separation was abrupt), so the FM makes sense. It's milder in IL2 than some other WW2 sims, worse than in others. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just never figured it'd be so razor thin I guess is what I mean. The plane isn't as communicative as I'd assumed it might be when we first got it. Thats always the trick...

But nonetheless...knowing what you can and can't do and where the knife edge balances is key for evasive moves.

chunkydora
06-23-2008, 08:39 PM
Maybe part of the problem is that I need to pull out of my zoom climbs before losing so much speed. I generally level out after I get below 300 kph. The aircraft that were pursuing me before were J2M, and like wildnoob said I don't think I can get away from one of them in a dive.

BTW, after zoom climbing back up from an attack, if there's no one on my six, what's the best way to cool down the engine? Open rads and full throttle, or keep em closed and power down a lttle?

HayateAce
06-23-2008, 10:03 PM
CD, don't bother evading ANYTHING in the Pos51. It is modeled with the Center of Gravity TOO FAR BACK, making it permanently unstable.

Fly something else if you want to dogfight.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

na85
06-23-2008, 10:50 PM
Ignore HayateAce.

general_kalle
06-24-2008, 01:10 PM
at high speeds (above 400) the horse outturns anything. especially if you apply a little elevator trim.
just be careful not to burn all your speed or you will stall and spin.