PDA

View Full Version : Yak Flying - There's No Life Like It :)



XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:07 AM
I seem to love flying the little Yak 3. I think because this plane is such a great little machine in dives and climbs.

I would enjoy hearing from anyone who is good with engine management on how this particular plane should be operated during a "general" combat situation.

I understand that at 2,000+ feet I should be engaging my second level superchargers, and that I should stay between 500-4,5000 feet for best performance.

What about prop settings (OK to leave or should I consider something different under combat)? Also, is there a good radiator setting (closed or does this heat the engine up too fast) during combat?

I am really new at engine management. Trying to understand the concepts. Man this game is complicated (and fun!).

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:07 AM
I seem to love flying the little Yak 3. I think because this plane is such a great little machine in dives and climbs.

I would enjoy hearing from anyone who is good with engine management on how this particular plane should be operated during a "general" combat situation.

I understand that at 2,000+ feet I should be engaging my second level superchargers, and that I should stay between 500-4,5000 feet for best performance.

What about prop settings (OK to leave or should I consider something different under combat)? Also, is there a good radiator setting (closed or does this heat the engine up too fast) during combat?

I am really new at engine management. Trying to understand the concepts. Man this game is complicated (and fun!).

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:08 AM
I keep the the radiator closed during combat, then immediatley open once the dogfight is over.

I only change prop pitch on german planes. MAKE sure you always have the fuel mixture set right when climbing, you dont want to see brown smoke pouring out of the engine.


Keep the Yak 3 below 5000m. VVS planes are pretty simple to fly, theres not much to worry about with the them.

Thats all you really need to remember.

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:38 AM
if any german bothers you dive away, it seems light planes like the yak dive like rock, and zoom like rockets, so if you want to bnz dont worry. And also if you do a head-on with a dora, pull a hard 180 and you should be right on his tail and be able to outclimb him.

"Ich bin ein Wuergerwhiner"

"The future battle on the ground will be preceded by battle in the air. This will determine which of the contestants has to suffer operational and tactical disadvantages and be forced throughout the battle into adoption compromise solutions." --Erwin Rommel

http://lbhskier37.freeservers.com/Mesig.jpg
--NJG26_Killa--

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 04:56 AM
Prefer the more "obsolete" Yak-9 and Yak-1Bs myself.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 06:08 AM
Funny you should say that. I just recently stumbled onto the Yak 3, and it's the first plane I've been able to use to get better in all areas without the constant stalling and uncontrollable buffeting. I love it, and I think I'm getting better in it. I haven't read much about engine management, but here's what I've been doing:

Prop pitch to 95% unless I change it for cruising to save fuel. 100% does not seem to translate to max speed, though it may be a bit better in climb. I really don't know.

Supercharger to Stage 2 at 4000 meters.

Lean mixture for each thousand meters. I'm not sure that's correct, but it seems to work. For example: 80% at 1k, 60% at 2K, 40% at 3k, and 20% at 4k and above. I think this is too lean, so I'm going to try less agressive settings (at 4 and 5K, 40% seems to give me more power. So I'm going to try my changes at every 2k).

Believe it or not, I go home after a fight at 5K altitude, 20% mixture, 50% throttle, and 50% prop. I was shocked to see speed rise to over 400 kph, and delighted to finally be able to outpace AI. I haven't experimented much with other settings, but it keeps me from running out of fuel after a long fur ball. A note of caution though: I had been testing with engine overheat disabled, and the lean settings may affect that when enable. Not sure.

If you have to dive from that high, go to full rich, prop to 100% (I map my buttons to just jump to 100% when richening), supercharger to stage 1, and chop your throttle. If the fight doesn't take you all the way down, re-adjust your mixture as needed, and take your prop back to 95 when you have the chance. Also, and this is a biggy: if speed starts to climb above 600kph, shallow your dive, or you'll lose it; you can feed a little throttle back in to stay at that edge if you want to. You really should cut your throttle when in a steep dive, or you'll accelerate way too fast. Also, I think remembering to move the prop to finer pitch (e,g, 95 or 100%) will provide some "braking." Control your dive; don't let it just do what it wants.

One more thing: when you are dropping down on an enemy from up high and directly abive him, work to keep your nose pointed ahead of him as he passes. It's too much work to shove it up when you are in firing range.

Hope the "comrads" don't keep me out of this bird. I like it alot.

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 06:12 AM
- Supercharger to Stage 2 at 4000 meters.



NO!/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif level 2 at 2500 meters/i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

<center> http://www.uploadit.org/files/060903-avia_036.jpg1.jpg <center>

<marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b] http://www.uploadit.org/files/070903-flugzeug4.gif <marquee> <FONT COLOR="red">[b]
<font color="red">I</font> <font color="blue">c</font><font color="green">a</font><font color="orange">n</font>
<font color="yellow">d</font><font color="pink">o</font> <font color="purple">c</font><font color="red">o</font><font color="blue">l</font><font color="lime">o</font><font color="yellow">r</font> /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 06:36 AM
Buster_Dee wrote:
Believe it or not, I go home after a fight at 5K altitude, 20% mixture, 50% throttle, and 50% prop....


50% prop and 20% mix is a bit excessive. Cruise @ even 85% will do. As for the mix, I don't think the sim models it, but in real life a mix that lean would foul the plugs in no time and likely torch the motor due to overheating.



"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 07:44 AM
Buster_Dee wrote:
- Funny you should say that. I just recently stumbled
- onto the Yak 3, and it's the first plane I've been
- able to use to get better in all areas without the
- constant stalling and uncontrollable buffeting. I
- love it, and I think I'm getting better in it. I
- haven't read much about engine management

(snip)

I agree with much of what you've written about the Yak-3 and it too is my plane of choice. The one thing that is a must if you want to be effective with it is that your gunnery simply must be pretty good. It's easy to go "winchester" (out of ammo) if one is not careful. This aircraft has about 1/3 to 1/2 the ammo load of other aircraft.

One thing to be aware of when flying the Yak-3 (or any of the Yaks for that matter) is that the power response is broken. You can pull the power back from a high setting to idle and it BEGINS to take effect in about 8-10 seconds. This throttle problem is gross and is a HUGE disadvantage when in a close-in dogfight and you're trying to inside turn your opponent by cutting a bit of power...and it doesn't happen. This flaw was introduced in the last update to the game and it's flat wrong. There are NO piston fighter aircraft that maintain power when the throttle is pulled back. Keep this in mind when employing the Yak.

Anyway, I'm pleased you enjoy the Yak-3. It's fun and is optimized to fight at 10K feet (3K meters) and below.

GR142-Pipper

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 07:54 AM
Yes YAK3 is an excelent aircraft, but i stick to FW190 cause it suits me better and has more ammo.

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 08:17 AM
Leaning isn't what causes plug fouling, that's running the mixture to rich.

Leaning the mixture to the wrong point will put the engine near it's peak temperature, however, by the time the engine is leaned back to 20% it will be running *very* cool, and likely not running at all due to fuel starvation.

Also, unless the fuel/air mixture is very precisely matched between the cylinders, you will get significant knocking, due to the cylinders producing different horsepowers. On radials that is less of a problem than inlines, due to their typically symmetrical fuel and air paths to the cylinders. The MP-105 the Yak-3 uses would certainly be loudly knocking if on dropped much below 80% mixture, I would suspect.

Anyways, for cruising, you really only need to cut a few notches back on the prop pitch, and drop back to around 60-60% throttle. With these aircraft you can just leave the mixture at 100% and ignore it until the engine starts running a bit rough at altitude, then take it back a click or two to get the engine running well.

The only time I can think of where a WWII aircraft needed the extra range lean of peak operating provided was when the USAAF and USMC were trying to ferry P-47's and Corsairs to far forward bases in the Pacific. There the operating procedure was to lean back to 40-60% mixture, reduce the prop pitch until the prop was almost wind milling, and run wide open throttle at nearly sea level, with maximum drop tankage. The plane would end up crawling along at ~150-200 mph (barely above stall speed) about 50-100m off the ground, but it let them get to bases much farther than they could with conventional techniques. Eventually they had to stop, due to problem with engine knocking, but it was a very successful program while it was in operation.

It was one of the ideas Lindburg developed, if I recall correctly.

Harry Voyager

http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0YQDLAswcqmIpvWP9dLzZVayPXOmo6IJ16aURujNfs4dDETH84 Q6eIkCbWQemjqF6O8ZfvzlsvUUauJyy9GYnKM6!o3fu!kBnWVh BgMt3q2T3BUQ8yjBBqECLxFaqXVV5U2kWiSIlq1s6VoaVvRqBy Q/Avatar%202%20500x500%20[final).jpg?dc=4675409848259594077

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 01:52 PM
WOW, lots of folks also like the Yak /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif Thanks for the comments/advice. I did notice the lack of ammo also- wished it had more as my shot is lousy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Anyway, from the Advanced Manual that came with the game, the guide provides the following (perhaps I am not reading it correctly)-

Yak-3

Mixture - 3000+ manually adjust

Supercharger - 2000+ switch to Stage 2

Best Performance Altitude - 500-2800

Like I said before, new to engine management. I haven't tried the mixture setting, so I need to practice this.

However, folks suggested supercharger 2 at 4000+ and not 2000 as stated in the reference manual. Is this not correct in the manual?

Prop pitch could be left alone or put to 95%?

Finally, how does the mixture work exactly (didn't get a lot of responses on this particular item)?

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 02:29 PM
Lesson 1:
Engine needs air+fuel to make it go.

The fuel burns, using up all the air.

If there is more air than fuel, not good power.
If there is more fuel than air: not good power.
When air and fuel are mixed properly: GOOD POWER.

Lesson 2:
Air that is close to the ground is denser than air above ground.

The higher you go, the less dense the air.

Low altitude = more air and therefore more fuel is needed to make good power.

High altitude = less air and therefore less fuel is needed to make good power.

Lesson 3:
0% prop pitch means prop moves more air.
100% prop pitch means prop moves less air.

The prop is nothing more than a pump that moves air.
MORE POWER is needed to maintain rotational speed when pitch is 0%.

Think of a 10-speed bicycle: Highest gear is 0% pitch. You can go really fast in 10th gear, but you have to work your legs off to do it. More POWER is needed to hit higher speed.

100% prop pitch moves less air, but is much easier to do (similar to low gear on the bike).

Easy as pie.

<font face="Courier New">

_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 02:44 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
-
- The prop is nothing more than a pump that moves air.
- MORE POWER is needed to maintain rotational speed
- when pitch is 0%.
-

Actually Teach ... the prop is screw ... no ??

cc

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:03 PM
Coon-Chow wrote:
-
- BaldieJr wrote:
--
-- The prop is nothing more than a pump that moves air.
-- MORE POWER is needed to maintain rotational speed
-- when pitch is 0%.
--
-
- Actually Teach ... the prop is screw ... no ??
-
- cc
-
-


Correct.

Anyone who's tinkered with a toy motor and a cardboard prop (attached with chewing gum, of course) would understand how it all works. Unfortunately, playing with a toy motor, cardboard, and chewing gum might lead family members to believe that you've lost your mind if you happen to be an adult.

For the sake of simplicity, sticking to the pump desription seemed a good idea, but using various drywall screws with different threads might be a good way to describe prop pitch http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



<font face="Courier New">

_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.

</font>

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:40 PM
Yak 3 is an interesting plane, I still prefer the FW190 over it but it is an interesting plane. The biggest difficult I have with the Yak 3 is ironically scoring kills with it. Your aim has to be incredibly precise I find to properly bring down a target. This is due to the 20mm in the spinner and the MG's just above it. The accuracy of the guns is fantastic, but that means you have to aim a bit better. I usually prefer with the FW190 to have precise aim and then fill that area with as much cannon fire as possible using the least number of shots (short intense bursts).

I'll have to adapt tactics for the Yak 3 to work for me. It also overheats quickly and feels a bit tricky to fly. Its not a uber plane really...its very tough to fight one effectively indeed. If you like the Yak 3, I encourage you to give it a good shot...they are interesting planes to fight with.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:49 PM
imo Yak-3 performance-wise IS the best plane in the game, the only thing that lets it down is its lousy ammo stocks.
Too many times have i blacked out from thinking im flying my FW190-D9 (my usual plane of choice) when breaking cos it moves so damned fast. About half an hour ago in level flight it started to flutter i had reached 650Kmh in level flight!

Wilhelm

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:58 PM
you seem to be doing fine. engage sc at 2200 m instead and reduce mix to 80% same time, reduce mix 20% every 12-1500 m from there to no less than 20% at about 6k alt.

prop is fine at 100% but if you have fine prop control moving between 90-100 is acceptable during dives and bqattle, can drop more on landings. you may even want to do more if you have excess speed at saddle to reduce engine noise giving away your position.
she is fine bird, keep her fast good luck!

MADMAN

XyZspineZyX
10-23-2003, 03:58 PM
VW-Ice Fire,

I enjoyed your comments and several others with regards to fire power. I tend to be a good target in online games, since I seldom can get a kill on my initial attack and then become a target thereafter.

On the positive side, and perhaps this is the crazy reason why I like the Yak, it is a great little defensive plane. I have advanced myself in rolls and loops, and various defensive techniques. I have out run 2-3 planes chasing me back to base (out of ammo, again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif ) without I clue about engine management.

But I'm getting tired of being a difficult target /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I was playing a custom campaign last night using the Mig-3 - I really liked the fire power as compared to the Yak. It also has far less engine management to worry about (although it likes higher elevation flying).

Your FW-190 also has little engine management and good firepower. Next time I'm online I will have to start trying out some of these "less complicated" but stronger planes. It would be nice to make those initial kills, though I like all the attention I get running from multi-planes (well, until I get shot down or run out of gas /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 06:04 AM
Great aircraft, and I do appreciate the comment above by a Luftwaffe fella who admits. It is a little light on armament, tough to shoot precicely and hit effectively (at opposing aircraft), and generally not the most "UBER" plane in the bunch.
Thanks for actually showing insight of the Yak 3 and its advantages and disadvantages.
Irony shows the earlier Yak 9 has the same ammo and supposed to have better handling , yet it seems a little sluggish.
I fly it due to the gratification factor, and enjoy an aircraft that was made for pilots with less than 300 flight hours on the clock (incidently the design for most WW2 fighters)
It turns well, rolls nice and just about everyting you need to fight with. (Bear in mind, this is a Dogfighter which is supposed to handle well; being nimble, slippery and engage in tight contests)
Shorcomings are the overheating, lack of protection, while being shot at, limited ammo (for me at least LOL) and a nasty tendancy to over climb to terrritories which are not the "native" environment for this particular model.
Arguably, some may "claim" it is over/under modled but yet it suits a place where it is a pleasing aircraft to fly. It takes damage like it should, gets rid of ammo fast and evades the opposing targets nicely. I fear flying againsed the 190's p-47 and other made for altitude who can make your day end quick.
As for defense of the 109 drivers, you fellas have one heck of a package but the poor plane takes one stray shot and the control cables (just ruins the whole plane, which in my views are not right ) LA-7 seem to take a brutal hits from many aircraft and become unscathed. I withness this all the time watching a 103-108 packed Axis plane unload a ton of rounds in one and the LA just keeps flying.
OOp's off the subject, but yes the Yak 3 is fun to fly but keep not of its best advantages.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 08:32 AM
Yak3 has got to be the easiest plane to aim with in game.
It shoots freaking laser beams compared to other planes that spread bullets everywhere.

A fw190 can be sawed in half by a yak3 quite easily. Faster than a p47 can do up close. I don't agree with that at all, but oh well.

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 09:32 AM
supercharger level two is engaged at 2000 meters. period. its on the cd . read it there. yak 3 can NOT zoom climb with a dora. not even a k4 can. no way. yak 3 is great for getting pilot kills. it gets triple the pks of any LW plane. fly em all and youll see. yak 3 is helpless against the dora and k4 pretty much if both pilots are equal. and yak three cant catch up in level flight to doras or k4s. yak 3 was uber in IL2 . but in FB now its mediocre . LA7 FWA9 dora k4 are all much better planes than the yak

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. Semper Invictus! <img src ="http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1065509047.jpg">

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 09:55 AM
" I only change prop pitch on german planes."


You're right to do that, but it's somehow a paradox /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Cheers,

XyZspineZyX
10-29-2003, 10:05 AM
I prefer the Yak-9U over the more popular Yak-3. But I only fly VVS planes rarely.

I'm suprised more people don't fly the big-cannon Yaks.

The big problem for the Yak driver IMO is top speed. I can always outrun them in a contemporary Focke-Wulf. The worst thing you can do in a Yak is to try and disengage from my FW190 and try to make it home.

All Yaks are very nice flying planes though.


<center><img src= "http://perso.wanadoo.fr/christophe.arribat/stoffwjabo.jpg" height=205 width=385>

<center>"We are now in a position of inferiority...There is no doubt in my mind, nor in the minds of my fighter pilots, that the FW190 is the best all-round fighter in the world today."

British Air Marshall, Sholto Douglas, 17 July 1942