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raaaid
01-30-2008, 05:04 AM
check out the nazi attitude they have here
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=38117

and compare it with the attitude here

why is it i cant understand it

sparty7200
01-30-2008, 05:14 AM
Can u please explain to me 'nazi attitude' i thought Nazi was an ideology not an attitude!.....maybe im wrong

raaaid
01-30-2008, 05:19 AM
basically the general agreement that for the survival of humanity famines are a must

dont think of persons with feelings but with numbers

imply that the end justify the means

sparty7200
01-30-2008, 05:30 AM
enlightened ....thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

raaaid
01-30-2008, 05:34 AM
yeah i got so pieced off with this people that im not even playing the game any more, trying new ones

maybe its the knowledge of history on this forum or maybe people has known me for long but if someone here said famines are necesary for population control he would get into trouble

Breeze147
01-30-2008, 06:00 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
check out the nazi attitude they have here
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=38117

and compare it with the attitude here

why is it i cant understand it

Hey, Twins34, how ya doin'?

x6BL_Brando
01-30-2008, 07:36 AM
Raaaid

You actively provoke the kind of answers you get when your statements are so clearly the result of unbalanced thoughts and premises, viz

" i bet youll do great following blindly the commands impose by the same system who transformed third world countries into dead camps in which every 4 seconds a human dies from starvation

Did you really not expect to receive flippant and sarcastic, even crass responses to such an inflammatory statement?
You ask everyone to collude in your conspiracy theories and then get upset when their responses aren't what you want to read. Then you take posts nearest to giving your conspiracies some weight and then edit them until you can produce them as 'proof'.

You need to get your head around the internet. You can always trawl up a few noxious replies to a thread, especially if that's what you're trying to provoke. They don't necessarily imply the writers' true feelings.

Your knowledge of traditional customs and folklore should have prepared you for the practice of 'poking fun at "mad" people' - it's a fairly international custom. Get over it or give up asking for it.

B

SeaFireLIV
01-30-2008, 08:08 AM
Crazy he may be but sometimes I think he creates some threads just to see how much of a `shock` value he can get out of it.

Sometimes I try to empathise with ones that seem honest, but after a while I just get annoyed.

WN_Barbarossa
01-30-2008, 08:18 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
basically the general agreement that for the survival of humanity famines are a must

dont think of persons with feelings but with numbers

imply that the end justify the means

As a russian guy once said: "In these multicultural times, we need to expand Fascism's meaning, to make it accessible to other cultures, particularly those we dislike."

Now lets see one by one - famines
If the human population is so big in a region that it can't sustain, the result is famine. This is a basic economic equation. You can improve the land or reduce the population. If you aren't willing or able to do that, nature will do the latter.

Are persons only numbers?
In certain cases, yes they are. In science, philosophy, politics etc. you need to think en large - that means people are not mothers and fathers with emotions, only labor force, consumers, potential casualties. You have to reduce them to numbers in order to handle them within the system.

Does the end justify the means?
According to idealists, yes, it does. Idealists always think about something good to the entire mankind. They believe in universal interests and values instead of particular ones. And when you do something which (you think) will improve the life of 6.5 billion people, or in utopistic ideologies, like communism, bring those 6.5 BN people to the Paradise, one or two (hundred)million lives can be sacrificed.

And as for comparing every net troll you disagree with to the Nazis - Man könnte meinen Adolf Hitler lebt...

PBNA-Boosher
01-30-2008, 08:20 AM
Been fed up for years. The physics questions lost humor by day 1. Don't take it personally raaaid, but there are plenty of life science forums on the net. Ask the questions there.

Outlaw---
01-30-2008, 09:13 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
check out the nazi attitude they have here
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=38117

and compare it with the attitude here

why is it i cant understand it

The exact same thing has happened in other threads IN THIS FORUM. Specifically, those thread in which you insulted people JUST LIKE YOU DID IN THE LINKED FORUM.

You need to get over your Nazi fixation. Everything that's bad is not the fault or was even believed by the Nazi's. The Japanese during WW-II weren't Nazi's but they killed many times more humans than the Nazi's did. To judge the progress of their work they performed autopsies on living humans after infecting their water supply with biological contaminants. Why don't you ever blame anything on their social system/beliefs?

Note that this is just ONE example of ONE atrocity committed by ONE group. My point is that every society has committed atrocities yet you throw around the Nazi term like Hitler was the first person to ever seek to eliminate a group of people.

Get over it. Like all of your posts, you disguise statements as questions. For example you aren't ASKING if anyone believes in telepathy. You are stating that you believe it and then arguing with those who disagree. All of your posts are like that. Keep it up though, I don't need to tell you why since you already know.


--Outlaw.

kid_SA
01-30-2008, 10:11 AM
some people are really so clueless about the rest of the world. Thank goodness noone listens to their opinions.

Raaaid: no comment. You do not inspire great respect, that's all I'll say.

TO the people who think famines are either good or a natural consequence: read a book.

The world is a very, very long way off from serious overpopulation. If China and India aren't starving, no one should be. It boggles my mind to think that some here believe that famine is nothing more than a natural consequence of too many people humping. sheesh. These guys have no idea.

Rain, wars, lack of infrastructure. Any rich country in a drought simply has a higher water bill. A truly poor country in a drought is up **** creek. So because a thousand other factors, certain people do not have the means to cheat nature like the rest of the world does, or survive if their crops are being burned, or food is being withheld by those with power, or any other calamity.

But because some rich fool doesn't like the thought that he has any responsibilities, he invents these absurd notions that the poor should simply be left to die. God forbid anyone intervenes. Yes, money thrown at the problem does not fix the problem, therefore it's entirely out of our hands. No, it shouldn't be.

Quick fact: the first world WASTES more food than it would take to stop any starvation, the world over.

What pisses me off the most are the people who call themselves African simply because they are black and who think that Africa should just be left alone. Millions dying in the Congo? The worst war since WWII? Well, it's an internal problem.

Crikey. The arrogance of people who think they can make a decision about the life someone else knowing zero actual circumstances except the little they have read in the papers.

And an aside, while my blood is boiling: the media is not some huge global organisation with it's own motives and one united agenda. There is good media and there is bad media, but if there is only junk in the papers, it's because that's what sells papers. Those who are to blame are those who DEMAND to read about such sensationalist nonsense: the majority of the population. People don't want to read 5 pages about the Congo, they want to read a snippet about how they really SHOULD keep all their money, and give nothing to no one. Ever. Then flick over to the celebrities section. Assumptions are so much more fun if they are reinforced, and a business is just a business.

Messaschnitzel
01-30-2008, 12:17 PM
Raaaid, The answers to all of your questions in the past, present, and future are available if you can unlock the code to be able to operate this Rubix cube:

http://www.starstore.com/acatalog/hellraiser_puzzle_box_L.jpg

Waldo.Pepper
01-30-2008, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
is this a special forum?

You presence makes it special. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

DuxCorvan
01-30-2008, 04:55 PM
Famines are cruel. It's better -and funnier- to kill the masses myself. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

JSG72
01-30-2008, 05:03 PM
Originally posted by kid_SA:
some people are really so clueless about the rest of the world. Thank goodness noone listens to their opinions.

Raaaid: no comment. You do not inspire great respect, that's all I'll say.

TO the people who think famines are either good or a natural consequence: read a book.

The world is a very, very long way off from serious overpopulation. If China and India aren't starving, no one should be. It boggles my mind to think that some here believe that famine is nothing more than a natural consequence of too many people humping. sheesh. These guys have no idea.

Rain, wars, lack of infrastructure. Any rich country in a drought simply has a higher water bill. A truly poor country in a drought is up **** creek. So because a thousand other factors, certain people do not have the means to cheat nature like the rest of the world does, or survive if their crops are being burned, or food is being withheld by those with power, or any other calamity.

But because some rich fool doesn't like the thought that he has any responsibilities, he invents these absurd notions that the poor should simply be left to die. God forbid anyone intervenes. Yes, money thrown at the problem does not fix the problem, therefore it's entirely out of our hands. No, it shouldn't be.

Quick fact: the first world WASTES more food than it would take to stop any starvation, the world over.

What pisses me off the most are the people who call themselves African simply because they are black and who think that Africa should just be left alone. Millions dying in the Congo? The worst war since WWII? Well, it's an internal problem.

Crikey. The arrogance of people who think they can make a decision about the life someone else knowing zero actual circumstances except the little they have read in the papers.

And an aside, while my blood is boiling: the media is not some huge global organisation with it's own motives and one united agenda. There is good media and there is bad media, but if there is only junk in the papers, it's because that's what sells papers. Those who are to blame are those who DEMAND to read about such sensationalist nonsense: the majority of the population. People don't want to read 5 pages about the Congo, they want to read a snippet about how they really SHOULD keep all their money, and give nothing to no one. Ever. Then flick over to the celebrities section. Assumptions are so much more fun if they are reinforced, and a business is just a business. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

DrHerb
01-30-2008, 06:28 PM
I was thinkin special like the short schoolbus / helmet wearing kinda special http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Airmail109
01-30-2008, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by x6BL_Brando:
Raaaid

You actively provoke the kind of answers you get when your statements are so clearly the result of unbalanced thoughts and premises, viz

" i bet youll do great following blindly the commands impose by the same system who transformed third world countries into dead camps in which every 4 seconds a human dies from starvation

Did you really not expect to receive flippant and sarcastic, even crass responses to such an inflammatory statement?
You ask everyone to collude in your conspiracy theories and then get upset when their responses aren't what you want to read. Then you take posts nearest to giving your conspiracies some weight and then edit them until you can produce them as 'proof'.

You need to get your head around the internet. You can always trawl up a few noxious replies to a thread, especially if that's what you're trying to provoke. They don't necessarily imply the writers' true feelings.

Your knowledge of traditional customs and folklore should have prepared you for the practice of 'poking fun at "mad" people' - it's a fairly international custom. Get over it or give up asking for it.

B

So basically, war has been breaking loose in the Darfur region of Sudan for like four years now. The conflict has led to so much death, displacement, and assorted human suffering that even overeducated, overpriveleged, upper middle-class American kids took a break from expanding their minds by getting high and talking about Che and **** so that we could make a real difference in global events. To that end, myself and like-minded enlightened college activists did the one thing that could demonstrate exactly how deeply the harrowing photographs and stories from this war-torn African province have touched us: we joined a Facebook group to Stop The Genocide.


The thing is, even with everything we sacrificed, that colossal outpouring of empathy, all those hours spent browsing the profile pics of our fellow humanitarians to see who was the hottest, the genocide and ethnic cleansing hasn't quite so much stopped as it has moved into the fast lane, turned up the music, and flipped on the cruise control. So what the ****, man? Don't these ******* heathens get that we're trying to help out here?

M_Gunz
01-30-2008, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by kid_SA:
The world is a very, very long way off from serious overpopulation. If China and India aren't starving, no one should be. It boggles my mind to think that some here believe that famine is nothing more than a natural consequence of too many people humping. sheesh. These guys have no idea.

Rain, wars, lack of infrastructure. Any rich country in a drought simply has a higher water bill. A truly poor country in a drought is up **** creek. So because a thousand other factors, certain people do not have the means to cheat nature like the rest of the world does, or survive if their crops are being burned, or food is being withheld by those with power, or any other calamity.

The really big problems are clean water and energy, not total world food production without
considering means of delivery or what happens when the food is delivered.

You are very correct as to the waste. How much is done deliberately to keep prices up?
I've seen pictures of milk dumped into streams, citrus into the ocean and wheat burned.
So much of the great forests are cut and burned on site to clear land for crops and homes,
it's not a trend that can go on forever and it has serious impact in the near future.
They say that Northern Africa, the Mediterranean region and the Mideast were pretty lush
regions before the ancient goat and sheep herders destroyed the lands where predators had
kept the overgrazing from happening before. I dunno how much was mankind and how much from
dry spells during ice ages but the people that dig the rocks in more ways than one do say
that's how the evidence comes up. There's a big difference between North American deserts
where humans have only been since about 15,000 years ago and the Sahara where people have
been much longer. --- Imagine that pre-industrial peoples actually were able to affect
regional climate and soil, each change spiraling the next, albeit over very long time.

There IS a very serious clean water shortage though and it is killing huge numbers of people.
Why is the answer to increase regional populations? We bring huge numbers of people here to
where the food and water is and yet still the populations there grow faster. If you look,
this is a pattern of nature whether dumb animals or intelligent humans, very sad to say.
Is the answer really to just do everything to increase world population until there is no
way left to keep up? Because then when the means to support it all breaks down it will do
so incredibly and not be without violence on a scale to dwarf all previous.

Which way to go? Not have everyone born that can be or grow until 8 or 10 billion deaths
with a large percentage as murders? There seems no choice, the struggle becomes the all.

M_Gunz
01-30-2008, 11:19 PM
Originally posted by raaaid:
check out the nazi attitude they have here
http://www.lfsforum.net/showthread.php?t=38117

and compare it with the attitude here

why is it i cant understand it

I see a thread where a crazy person in Spain (lerts) goes building trouble and then comes here to
complain about it (Raaaid).

What you do to change things, to help the starving you write of? Smoke pot by the shore while
contemplating the moon and the tides and blame others? You could be shoulder to shoulder with
people who don't care for you, starving and no reefer if you only had your way. Then you would
cry that you are not protected and fed, but at least you would not be doing so on the internet!

M_Gunz
01-30-2008, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
The thing is, even with everything we sacrificed, that colossal outpouring of empathy, all those hours spent browsing the profile pics of our fellow humanitarians to see who was the hottest, the genocide and ethnic cleansing hasn't quite so much stopped as it has moved into the fast lane, turned up the music, and flipped on the cruise control. So what the ****, man? Don't these ******* heathens get that we're trying to help out here?

LOL on the Facebook BS but really what can be done that's effective?

Take the attempts at intervening in Somalia for example. Aid in every form was grabbed by
minority power groups to support only those groups including huge money spent on weapons and
ammunition (any idea how much an RPG delivered to Somalia must have run?) much more than the
food?

What happened when troops were sent to stop the hoarding and misdirection? The people who
stood to benefit stood in the way and shot the soldiers, many lining up their own kids for
shields!

Do people like that deserve help at such a cost? It's insane but I have a SOLUTION.
It's very simple. Everyone that really thinks so should gather and be shipped over to
where the fighting is with a big pack of food and water to sort things out their way --
or get sorted out the way it's happening right now. As in Good F___ing Luck, surely
your SMILES and what you bring will straighten those people right out tout suite!

PS -- No Aimail, I do not for one New York Second even think that you would be there!
I LIKE your post and feel that it needs just a bit extra!

Imagine how much less whining online there would be if the opportunity to back it up was
openly and easily available?

Messaschnitzel
01-31-2008, 12:13 AM
Look at it from this perspective. If a person lives with their parents and doesn't have to work for a living will have a lot of time on their hands. Over a long period of time, one can become bored, jaded, and come up with all sorts of diversions to fritter away their time on this mortal coil.(More like a bent to **** mortal "slinky" in this case.)

I think the word to describe the situation here would be "otaku".

kid_SA
01-31-2008, 01:50 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Do people like that deserve help at such a cost? It's insane but I have a SOLUTION.
It's very simple. Everyone that really thinks so should gather and be shipped over to
where the fighting is with a big pack of food and water to sort things out their way --
or get sorted out the way it's happening right now. As in Good F___ing Luck, surely
your SMILES and what you bring will straighten those people right out tout suite!

Cute.

So in your mind, if people are starving and a bunch of power hungry murderers are trying to control the entire food supply, then logically those who are starving deserve their fate, and it is not your responsibility to help (god forbid) instead it is mine? Christ, you have the kinds of people who would brainwash a 12 year old child and give him a gun, and you can't be bothered to care?!

Given a weapon, training, a structure and more, there are people who are willing to help, thankfully. Many of the blue hats believe in what they are doing, as do many soldiers in various armies. I do think it is pointless to have a soldier to bring peace without authorisation to fire. If anyone recalls, there were some horrible stories about blue hats who were forced to watch the worst kinds of atrocities and could not intervene, as they were not being fired at.

The French-controlled MONUC mission in the Congo seems to have grown some teeth, however. All eyes...

As for water: nope.

The world is simply not growing fast enough to face a very serious water shortage. It's just infrastructure. Water cannot be cleaned if there are no sewage works, but the water is there. Massive amounts of water and electricity are available in central Africa from the huge rivers. The Congo River alone is so powerful that, were it damed properly, it could power the whole of Africa. The first explorers who saw it thought that it was a freak phenomenon, as you could drink fresh water miles out to sea. But as usual, for the first world: if it's in Africa, it doesn't exist. Case in point re: Congo. I don't think there are ANY first world journalists on a permanent station there, covering the greatest loss of life since WWII. Coverage comes through in bits and pieces and most news outlets don't even print this drop of information. Who cares, right? Black war. Some journalists here (South Africa) have made an interesting calculation of the number of books that would have to be written if the same per-death interest would be taken over the Congo that was taken over Iraq and Afghanistan. It is simply staggering. And still, no one really cares. To those who think like that: pat yourself on the back, hard, and I hope you break something.

Eventually, yes, with enough people water will become an issue, but the desalination of water from the seas will simply become more viable. Right now it is too slow, too expensive and too inefficient to do, but given enough economic interest, you can bet that new ideas will be invented, and new processes will be created. Mankind will bungle along, and no one needs to die to satisfy your need to be even more special, and even richer than you are now, because you get to survive when the rest get to die. Do everything to increase world population? The answer is to increase regional population? Who has even suggested something so stupid? And yet, there is a small difference between "increasing regional population" (what are we talking about, like giving them large stocks of aphrodisiacs, or is "not killing them" enough to encourage this horrible, shocking growth?) and giving the poorest people on this earth the means to clean their own water.

Or is someone going to suggest that a man/woman with no roads going through his village, which is burned down every few years, with no money, no crops except that which is not taken, and nothing to sell, should simply clean up the massive river polluted by a thousand things, including first world companies coming in to suck whatever they can out of the place, at any expense?

SeaFireLIV
01-31-2008, 02:09 AM
The worst trait of mankind is his ability to sit there and say, "they should die because they`re poor, starving and needy and also useless to the economy, blah."

It`s such a selfish careless attitude that i can`t even begin to express my disgust. If I saw such a wealthy middleclass person (who believes it`s ok to let innocent others die because somehow it`s good for the Human race) lying bleeding to death in the gutter, next to a poor-no wealth-dying starving man, who apparently isn`t contributing much, I`d help the dying starving man first every time.

i`ve met such people who`ve said to me, "I wouldn`t want to be poor, but it`s ok for him cos he`s used to it!"

That sort of statement makes me want to smack the person in the mouth.

raaaid
01-31-2008, 05:53 AM
yes but notice how they are different forums there the maquiavelic approach here a heart approach

there i was attacked right away and even end ban for some weeks for defending myself

compare how exactly the same start have opposite endings depending on the kind of people you tell at

its also curious how almost everibody seems to fear disagreement with the crowd

Outlaw---
01-31-2008, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by raaaid:
yes but notice how they are different forums there the maquiavelic approach here a heart approach

there i was attacked right away and even end ban for some weeks for defending myself

compare how exactly the same start have opposite endings depending on the kind of people you tell at

Look at the first response in this forum. It's not a compliment. After that it's mostly "...I knew you were going to..." and "...what's the speed of thought..." posts.

The DIFFERENCE is the post you made...


Originally posted by raaaid: (AKA lerts)
you are a bunch of sheep you let the society do your thinking

folklore has plenty examples of telepathy but you ignore them and adapt to what the media tells you to think

i bet youll do great following blindly the commands impose by the same system who transformed third world countries into dead camps in which every 4 seconds a human dies from starvation

of course youll believe the media and believe blindly that the never before destructed black box in 911 was desintegrated but a terrorist passport was there to prove who did it

whos crazy here

folklore versus system media, whos gonna tell the truth comon folk or george bush

in the other forum. You have made similar posts in this forum AND YOU WERE ATTACKED, just like in the other forum.

You WANT to feel persecuted so you do everything you can to make sure you are. Before you start calling other people "sheep", PROVE JUST ONE OF YOUR ASININE IDEAS. And by proof note that I don't mean incorrect math along with a bunch of babbling. Do it with a complete set of CORRECT calculations and diagrams.


Originally posted by raaaid:its also curious how almost everibody seems to fear disagreement with the crowd

Why do you call it "fear to disagree"? Why can't it be that they AGREE?

The only reason you "don't agree" with the crowd is because you fail to comprehend correctly what others do comprehend. You are nearly 100% incorrect in everything you post and what isn't flat out incorrect is nearly 100% misinterpreted. Your misinterpreted statements are then manipulated and bent in your follow-up posts to make it seem like your point has been proven, at which time you declare victory and walk out of the conversation. A perfect case in point is your reference "proving" that the trim tab is servo assisted by aerodynamic forces. When Gunz stuffed it in your face showing how everything you said was wrong you don't even have the common courtesy to respond.

As always, you're wrong.

--Outlaw.

DuxCorvan
01-31-2008, 07:55 AM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
The worst trait of mankind is his ability to sit there and say, "they should die because they`re poor, starving and needy and also useless to the economy, blah."

It`s such a selfish careless attitude that i can`t even begin to express my disgust. If I saw such a wealthy middleclass person (who believes it`s ok to let innocent others die because somehow it`s good for the Human race) lying bleeding to death in the gutter, next to a poor-no wealth-dying starving man, who apparently isn`t contributing much, I`d help the dying starving man first every time.

i`ve met such people who`ve said to me, "I wouldn`t want to be poor, but it`s ok for him cos he`s used to it!"

That sort of statement makes me want to smack the person in the mouth.

Here's another one for you: "The problem is that there is an excess of four thousand million people in the world, though fortunately neither you nor I are among them". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

WN_Barbarossa
01-31-2008, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Take the attempts at intervening in Somalia for example. Aid in every form was grabbed by
minority power groups to support only those groups including huge money spent on weapons and
ammunition (any idea how much an RPG delivered to Somalia must have run?) much more than the
food?

Because throving aid to a non functioning country is like pumping gas into damaged car with leaking fuel tanks. It may be a nice gesture but it's senseless.

In failed states like Somalia, things have to follow a sequence: stability -> economic development -> social development ->democracy
Like you cannot start to build a house with the roof.

The problem is that stability means that one group has to achieve the monopoly of violence (the Leviathan, to quote Hobbes) by killing and exterminating any competitors and those who don't recognise it's monopoly. And this means gallons of blood, thousands of dead etc. But it doesn't look nice on the 8 o'clock news so the western conscience will intervene and will restore the perpetual chaos, so the peaceniks can wonder why there are so much suffering, famine and cilivian feud in these countries.

We should just let them to play out their wars, and on the long run Africa would be a more peaceful place with real states.

Copperhead311th
01-31-2008, 11:14 AM
hehehehe lol i'm gonna stay outa this one. this one could get me in trouble.

not a compleate retreat mind you....call it a Strategic Withdrawl. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

zardozid
01-31-2008, 11:17 AM
I thought you ment "THIS" forum was special...

http://www.davidandgoliathtees.com/shop/images/tees6/1506_0L.jpg

http://lonestartimes.com/images/2007/04/short-bus.jpg

WOLFMondo
01-31-2008, 11:25 AM
How did this all come about from a Live for Speed forum?!

Messaschnitzel
01-31-2008, 12:17 PM
What I don't care for is the attitude from some people that I have spoken to before. Their thought is that since I live in a wealthy country, I should feel guilty about not doing something about injustices that are going on now/have been going on for the last 50 years in foreign countries.

As stated in the posts above, throwing money and troops at the situation will not save it because there are too many unstable factors of known and unknown quantity involved.

The U.S. is now tearing lumber off of their own house to provide for all of the people less fortunate than they are in other countries. The people in charge are ignoring the problem that they have no real money now to repair their own house. the country has collectively saved nothing, and the countries that are being helped have become dependent on the U.S.

Part of the problem that the average person in the U.S. is shocked that a group of people could commit atrocities that are being done in other countries, and demand that something be done about it, not having a clue as to the historical significance behind the trouble. Since they live a comparatively soft life, they have a difficult time imagining a hard and intractable attitude that a person can have when living in an unforgiving environment that depends on belonging to a specific group that vies for survival against other groups. With some of these peoples, any kindness or concession with each other is looked upon with suspicion and can be regarded as a sign of weakness that is to be taken advantage of.

I saw first hand the results of how out of control a population of foreign nations can be when they are in close proximity with each other. A company that I worked for back in the '90's hired a number of Eastern Europeans for various departments. Bulgarians, Hungarians, Poles, Czechs, Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians.

The problems started when the company put the Serbs, Croats, and Bosnians in the same departments. You could cut the tension with a knife. I spoke with one of the Bulgarians who said that he couldn't believe that these guys were put together in the first place. After cluing me in on who was what, I went to the supervisor who was aware of something not right, but was not sure what it was. I then explained the situation to him and he couldn't believe it. He said that he thought that they should put their differences aside because they are in the U.S. now. I recommended to him that he should either put these guys in separate departments, or get rid of them because they weren't going to back down from each other. Sooner or later there was going to be some serious trouble.

Interesting to note that after I casually spoke to a Serb first, the Croats and Bosnian Croats wouldn't even look my way when walking past me afterwards. On the other hand, all of the Serbs would speak to me. Talk about sectarianism!

M_Gunz
01-31-2008, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by kid_SA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Do people like that deserve help at such a cost? It's insane but I have a SOLUTION.
It's very simple. Everyone that really thinks so should gather and be shipped over to
where the fighting is with a big pack of food and water to sort things out their way --
or get sorted out the way it's happening right now. As in Good F___ing Luck, surely
your SMILES and what you bring will straighten those people right out tout suite!

Cute.

So in your mind, if people are starving and a bunch of power hungry murderers are trying to control the entire food supply, then logically those who are starving deserve their fate, and it is not your responsibility to help (god forbid) instead it is mine? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right. Get real Bozo, there's no way to really help until the mothers with the guns are
stopped. That's kind of difficult AS HAS BEEN PROVED ALREADY when the civilians get in the
way AND KILL OUR TROOPS who are trying to stop the madness.

I for one am not up to going over there and getting shot BY people I'd be trying to help.
Do you need that again? And since I'm not up to doing that, I won't push for someone else
to but if they want to then that's fine by me!

Have you ever been under fire or even had loaded weapons pointed at you by hostile people?
I can tell you for a fact, it's not much fun and it's a real sympathy killer.

I'm sorry that things are the way they are over there but there's nothing REAL that I or
our military forces can do to set things right, unless you think that taking sides and
killing over half the population there now is a real solution. Do you?

I don't say the innocents DESERVE to go through hell there. Find a place where they won't
kill outsiders and don't expect the same outsiders to kill their neighbors at the same time
and I guess you have some innocents. Then you can set up firebases and play Vietnam in
Africa to the tune of a few billion $ a year which should be peanuts huh? What's a few 1000
troop deaths and casualties anyway, right? Maybe after a few generations change could be
achieved and you can feel good at least up until you have to explain to to veterans.

It's like the Starving People vs Food equation that includes NOTHING about the difficulties
of getting the food TO the people. Nice little idealism that fails miserably.

Were you far out of diapers last time, in Somalia when the US had to get out? Did you know
about that one except as a gloss-over in Social Studies?

There ARE UN troops in Africa trying to straighten things out now, it's not so simple as
walk in and drop goods off or there wouldn't be troops there.

Simple questions: are you of age to go do something real there or is your answer to send
others into harm's way to salve your conscience? Do you understand that there ARE
governments and private groups that DO take aid and DO NOT give it to the needy? Just
send more. That happened in Vietnam, before and since. Sending aid in those cases does
not help. Sending troops does not help overall either. So GET REAL will ya? It's NOT
our fault, people are going to die until real political solutions are reached over there.

In the meantime we have plenty of poverty right here and no facebook weenies helping out.

Once again, those people have guns and ammo and are shooting those who would give aid.

Any chance you and yours could put up a family or two from Africa? How about some homeless
people from somewhere closer or even displaced ones from New Orleans? Or is that too real?

I love ya but please grow up.

M_Gunz
01-31-2008, 12:57 PM
Originally posted by kid_SA:
Given a weapon, training, a structure and more, there are people who are willing to help, thankfully. Many of the blue hats believe in what they are doing, as do many soldiers in various armies. I do think it is pointless to have a soldier to bring peace without authorisation to fire. If anyone recalls, there were some horrible stories about blue hats who were forced to watch the worst kinds of atrocities and could not intervene, as they were not being fired at.

Things getting better there, are they? Don't sound like it at all. Sounds like the show is
just getting started. I say that as an Army Veteran.


As for water: nope.

The world is simply not growing fast enough to face a very serious water shortage. It's just infrastructure. Water cannot be cleaned if there are no sewage works, but the water is there.

Oh well, "just infrastructure".

Google on "World Water Shortage". There's loads of links there by people you should educate.

M_Gunz
01-31-2008, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by SeaFireLIV:
If I saw such a wealthy middleclass person (who believes it`s ok to let innocent others die.

What's this LET $#!+?

Sonny, I help some people RIGHT HERE to get by. And I live on less than $9000 a year.

What do YOU do? Send money? Does it GET to the people who need it? Do you KNOW?
What have YOU done to end the killing and destruction that have worsened things in so many
places? Just send money? Not even that?

Do you remember the Vietnam war or were you even born before 1975? HELLO, a lot of people
tried to help and WE ENDED UP BEING THE BAD GUYS, RALPH.

Guess what? Study history and it's part of a pattern.

Don't turn your back but don't stick your hands or head in the mill either unless you want
to LOSE THEM. And if you demand that others do so for you then you're --- I'll just say A
VERY BAD PERSON for that.

The efforts there now are good effort but pouring big money will only attract troublemakers
looking to profit, aka arms dealer, mercenaries and wannabe kings to mention a few. But I
am only going by HISTORY so you just get your crayons out and color me up a rainbow, huh?

$#!+ this pi$$e$ me off badly just because I wish so hard that things could be different but
I am old and experienced enough to know better. Funny how I bet you won't get any closer
to what's going on there than you are right now yet really hate others for not doing more.

It's a WAR going on. You know what happens in WAR? Maybe some day it ends and maybe it
don't.

Hey while you're at it, could you bunch fix the troubles between Israel and the Arabs?
I mean, since it's all so easy and since the middleclass mo-fos won't get off their @$$3$?

Please? For me could you do it? Since you apparently have the real answers that elude
the rest of us?

M_Gunz
01-31-2008, 01:42 PM
Originally posted by WN_Barbarossa:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M_Gunz:
Take the attempts at intervening in Somalia for example. Aid in every form was grabbed by
minority power groups to support only those groups including huge money spent on weapons and
ammunition (any idea how much an RPG delivered to Somalia must have run?) much more than the
food?

Because throving aid to a non functioning country is like pumping gas into damaged car with leaking fuel tanks. It may be a nice gesture but it's senseless. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's even worse when the people in the car are throwing lit matches around.

LEBillfish
01-31-2008, 01:49 PM
Well, I think raaaid has finally proven without question one of his "topics".....That being;

We most deffinately are a special (ed) forum. Well done raaaid, now just to post your findings http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Messaschnitzel
01-31-2008, 01:56 PM
Think of Raaaid as a little kid that pokes an ant bed with a stick to see what happens.

kid_SA
02-01-2008, 01:36 AM
M_gunz, many things that you say I completely agree with, and that is why I will not reply to this fully, point by point. Which is good, because neither did you. Your post is spent making assumptions about me and putting words in my mouth, then saying something I fully agree with, as though I had disagreed violently in my previous post, which is flatly wrong. The rest is stuff I disagree with, but still just making assumptions and putting words in my mouth. In short, a rebuttal here would be nothing more than me saying "read my post again, I never said X" over and over and over again.

bear in mind: what do you know about me? A handle that I chose on an anonymous internet forum. That's pretty much it. Do not try to classify me because my views differ from yours.

FYI: The congo has been at war for nearing 5 decades. At times, there has been an ineffectual peacekeeping force that could do nothing at all. They were, to the militias, a joke. MONUC does not have the span of the entire Congo. In the areas they are in, do you know their performance? Or are you pulling random nonsense out of nowhere? This is a heads up for those that think that wars "sort themselves out" when someone wins. It's a naive point of view, at best. "Africa" (god forbid people actually learn the names of places INSIDE the "dark continent") would most certainly not be better off alone. The Congo is the best example of this, or Angola. Both are rich beyond measure, in untapped material wealth, from minerals to metals to gas to oil. This will attract many, many other countries and individual interest groups who want a piece of the pie. It's not like one group can just win and everyone else will back off. Read a bit about the history of this place, and you will see what I mean.

Democracy is not a flash, it's a habit. It's a bunch of people sitting down and saying "no, we won't do that". Not possible when your "betters" have many weapons and can coerce you any way they please. How, pray anyone tell, are people supposed to sort out their problems in these conditions?

Not everyone in Somalia wanted to shoot the US and UN soldiers. There were many factions, with many interests, as usual. How is stability to be gained when warlords run rampant and Ethiopia (assumption: that I know nothing) keeps meddling? Certainly, it's not a simple answer (assumption: that I said it was, that people with guns would solve everything) but one thing is for sure: they might starve if we attempt to get food to them and fail (assumption: that I said getting food to them was ever simple) but if we just hang back and stop caring, things will get a lot worse, and a lot more people will die.

And what of the brainwashing? Is a 12 year old child who has been indoctrinated into fighting and killing, is he not an innocent?

And what's a few troop deaths, in a sarcastic tone? Well, that depends, kind sir, on the MILLIONS of deaths that could be saved, if the operation was played right. Hence why we need many kinds of simultaneous solutions, including political and setting up some infrastructure, but neither can occur if peace is not enforced. By the point of a sword, sometimes, if it is called for, after much deliberation. Tell me how Somalia was to take a referendum in the circumstances? Or are the strong simply to govern the weak?

Mate, there are so many assumptions in this post of yours, that I've given up listing them. Just take a deep breath, go over my post again, and then go over yours. You make me out to be something I am not, and to think things I do not. And that is simply rude.

BTW, I live in South Africa, so... again, what ON EARTH do you know about what I am doing in relation to what I am saying? Do you want me to tell you about the kind of poverty that we have down here?

As for water, read my post again. We do not yet have a SERIOUS water shortage. As usual, the scientific community hyperboles the issue to get it into the thick heads of the masses. But the world will not end any time soon, nor will the polar ice caps melt in three days. The problem with CLEAN water TODAY is INFRASTRUCTURE. See below that nice quote out of context.

snafu73
02-01-2008, 10:49 AM
Anybody who thinks planet Earth can cope with exponential growth of any species, especially human beings, who use more resources than any other species on Earth are either delusional or are very bad at maths. We have doubled in numbers in the last 50 years.

It should be obvious to anyone that this is impossible to sustain without leaving planet Earth.

I think this quote from Isaac Asimov sums it up:

"...democracy cannot survive overpopulation. Human dignity
cannot survive it. Convenience and decency cannot survive it. As you
put more and more people into the world, the value of life not only
declines, it disappears. It doesn't matter if someone dies. The more
people there are, the less one individual matters."

Airmail109
02-01-2008, 08:53 PM
Just read Dark Star Safari by Paul theroux if you want to know exactly how much a lot of aid doesnt help, except medical aid.

A LOT of it gets squandered.

neural_dream
02-02-2008, 06:22 AM
Why are Raaid's topics not locked any more for being the outrageously Offtopic product of a ridiculous attention troll? Where is that nice ubi-mod who used to lock 10 threads a day?

No wonder every il2-related discussion is in the big Yellow.

M_Gunz
02-02-2008, 06:49 AM
Every time one gets so effective, ee's tole ta get packin!