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View Full Version : To Clerify on Bf-110 and other aircraft.



XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:23 PM
The reason why aircraft like the Bf-110, Pe-2, and Ju-88 are NOT in this add-on is simply because the 3rd party developer are not finished with them yet! We have all seen some VERY nice screen shots of what looks like nearly complete models, but please. Take my word for it. 90% of the work happens AFTER it looks complete. DM, LOD, Shadow model all take TONS of time. I can get a model to LOOK complete in 3 days. To actually COMPLETE it takes a MONTH. Most artist's are not as fast as I am. Dont Patition Oleg or Ubisoft for something they have no controle over what-so-ever. Patition the artist working on the model. STOP BUGGIN OLEG AND UBI!!! Start buggin us. You can see the status of most 3rd party aircraft at the netwings forum at

http://www.netwings.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID43&conf=DCConfID1

New Ju-88 screens were posted recently, and I have not heard anything from the Bf-110 in some time. LAst I heard, they could not find enough referances on the gunner position to complete it. No work has been seen on the Pe-2, but I have heard that someone IS working on it.

Gib

No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:23 PM
The reason why aircraft like the Bf-110, Pe-2, and Ju-88 are NOT in this add-on is simply because the 3rd party developer are not finished with them yet! We have all seen some VERY nice screen shots of what looks like nearly complete models, but please. Take my word for it. 90% of the work happens AFTER it looks complete. DM, LOD, Shadow model all take TONS of time. I can get a model to LOOK complete in 3 days. To actually COMPLETE it takes a MONTH. Most artist's are not as fast as I am. Dont Patition Oleg or Ubisoft for something they have no controle over what-so-ever. Patition the artist working on the model. STOP BUGGIN OLEG AND UBI!!! Start buggin us. You can see the status of most 3rd party aircraft at the netwings forum at

http://www.netwings.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID43&conf=DCConfID1

New Ju-88 screens were posted recently, and I have not heard anything from the Bf-110 in some time. LAst I heard, they could not find enough referances on the gunner position to complete it. No work has been seen on the Pe-2, but I have heard that someone IS working on it.

Gib

No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:30 PM
I'm patient. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

S!

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:31 PM
I refuse to whine.

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 06:42 PM
Gibbage1 wrote:
- The reason why aircraft like the Bf-110, Pe-2, and
- Ju-88 are NOT in this add-on is simply because the
- 3rd party developer are not finished with them yet!
- We have all seen some VERY nice screen shots of what
- looks like nearly complete models, but please. Take
- my word for it. 90% of the work happens AFTER it
- looks complete.


DM, LOD, Shadow model all take TONS
- of time. I can get a model to LOOK complete in 3
- days.

LOL. The Bf-110, Pe-2 and Ju-88 are all complete in these items...

To actually COMPLETE it takes a MONTH.

I think, the most work is the implemention done by Oleg: FM, DM, EM.

- New Ju-88 screens were posted recently, and I have
- not heard anything from the Bf-110 in some time.
- LAst I heard, they could not find enough referances
- on the gunner position to complete it. No work has
- been seen on the Pe-2, but I have heard that someone
- IS working on it.

I'm not in the Ju-88 stuff right now, but IIRC the recent incomplete shots are all of C-6. A-4 is finished AFAIK, at least close to. It needs Oleg's work. FM tuning, as it's already in as AI, EM and the StuVi. Of course, loadouts!
The Pe-2 is in a very early stage now. Kami, the one who made the FW-200 is working on it. But now he did that french thingy, PeO 451 or so.
Bf-110 pilot station is finished AFAIK. It needs Oleg's work and the gunner. Fck that damn gunner /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif - we want it flyable, not "gunnable". The gunner should come later, so we can get it flyable in the addon. Adding the gunner wouldn't be that much work anymore compared to all that FM and EM stuff. Luthier can grab one of those proggers and he'll add the gunner's room in one day when the rest is in already. That would be the best for us all.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:29 PM
Gibbage:

Concerning the rear gunner of the Bf-110, would there be a chance to leave it as AI only, as was done with the Il-2 Field Mod version?

Half of a Bf-110 is much better than none!

<center>
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Is the Bf-110C-4/B ready yet?<center>

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:40 PM
Okay Gibb, here's bugging YOU.

Who's doing the 110, maybe we can help him

That goes to all third part plane makers, need that final piece of info...post it on the UBI board.


Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:50 PM
Willey wrote:

- DM, LOD, Shadow model all take TONS
-- of time. I can get a model to LOOK complete in 3
-- days.
-
- LOL. The Bf-110, Pe-2 and Ju-88 are all complete in
- these items...

- I'm not in the Ju-88 stuff right now, but IIRC the
- recent incomplete shots are all of C-6. A-4 is
- finished AFAIK, at least close to. It needs Oleg's
- work. FM tuning, as it's already in as AI, EM and
- the StuVi. Of course, loadouts!

Ju-88 LOD, DM and shadow models are ALL UNDONE.

Ju-88 A-4 cockpit is not much more finished than C-6. FM needs to be completely new for it too.


Willey, you do not know anything. Just stop spreading your own ideas about the development. You just confuse people.


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:52 PM
Cossack13 wrote:
- Gibbage:
-
- Concerning the rear gunner of the Bf-110, would
- there be a chance to leave it as AI only, as was
- done with the Il-2 Field Mod version?
-
- Half of a Bf-110 is much better than none!


What is wrong if you have to wait little longer? World is not going to end, is it?


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 07:56 PM
Thanks for clearing that up. As for Willey, I TOLD YOU SO! Give us time, and we will give you the quality you demand from us. If you want the Ju-88 and the rest NOW, go fly CFS3. Then you can see what a rush job looks and feels like. Nuff said, hay Jippo?

Gib

Jippo01 wrote:
-
- Willey wrote:
-
- Ju-88 LOD, DM and shadow models are ALL UNDONE.
-
- Ju-88 A-4 cockpit is not much more finished than
- C-6. FM needs to be completely new for it too.
-
-
- Willey, you do not know anything. Just stop
- spreading your own ideas about the development. You
- just confuse people.
-
-
--jippo
-
-
-
-



No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:07 PM
Gib I agree but what is panicking people is that they fear FB closing down forever in the next few months, true or not, and if so they fear what doesn't make it in soon never will.

For me, I don't care about Gladiator in BoB, but I would love to use it against I~153 here in FB--closest thing I'll ever get to a Spanish Civil WAR sim. To me, FB is not finished yet. But I also know BoB may sell better, and if it really is a beginning of a line of (hopefully compatible) WW2 sims in different theaters, the faster Oleg dumps FB the better. Except I hope he returns to Eastern Front as soon as possible as that is the only reason I bought FB.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:10 PM
Jippo,

There is nothing wrong with the hard work done by many of you guys. But it is a fact that these, as it now seems premature, screenpics showing all fancy new a/c made people expect a HUGE windfall of types. If I remember correctly there were plenty of (semi) official lists of probable planes. Now you can say the key word is probable, but IMHO the expectation was certainly raised by many of the development team and even third party people like Gibb himself showing screenshots of there 3d models.

Okay, maybe it is time for a general reality check here, but that includes the publishing of fancy 3d models with no chance of appearing.

Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 08:47 PM
rhorta wrote:
- Okay, maybe it is time for a general reality check
- here, but that includes the publishing of fancy 3d
- models with no chance of appearing.

And which models would those be then?

If you are talking about Ju-88 (which is really the only plane I can comment), it will be in FB and following Maddox simulations. Is that clear enough?

Everything is going on as planned.


-jippo

Ps. BoB is coming 2005, we are living 2003 now. That would be my reality check.

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:15 PM
Jippo, et al.

the J-88 looks SWEET; Gibbs work also is great and the updates are always cool to get... if anything I want more of them!!

XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:24 PM
Keep up the great work Gib.........../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-06-2003, 09:28 PM
Its not just my work, there are a lot of other modelers doing a lot of aircraft. We have Jippo, Xanty, Majesty5, and tons more to thank. I would like everyone to go to Netwings forum and post a "Thank you" message to the modelers who contributed to IL2. They need a good moral boost. http://www.netwings.org/cgi-bin/dcforum/dcboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID43&conf=DCConfID1


Bearcat99 wrote:
- Keep up the great work Gib

No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

Message Edited on 10/06/0312:29PM by Gibbage1

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:14 AM
Jippo01 wrote:
- If you are talking about Ju-88 (which is really the
- only plane I can comment), it will be in FB and
- following Maddox simulations. Is that clear enough?
-
- Everything is going on as planned.
-
-
--jippo
-
- Ps. BoB is coming 2005, we are living 2003 now. That
- would be my reality check.

I am not only talking the Ju-88 or about yourself, but you only have to look at the official development pages and the currently presented list of planes to appear in the FB add ons to understand what I am talking about.

What happens in a sim PLANNED in 2005 is unimportant to me at this stage and mainly strategic planning by Maddox, lets see what comes in the end. (In all likelyhood it will be an improvement on IL2/FB and warrant a purchase anyway.)

Or is the FB development page suddenly the BoB dev.page?

You haven't convinced me with your reality check, I still think that on the basis of previous posts its been Maddox his own fault that he raised expectations with all those third part a/c screenshots.

But the same happens in other MP sims, lot of 3d work, few actual additional a/c. I knew that reality already.

Is this a bad sim, no
Is this a product with good support and development, yes.

Is there a lot of hot air, yes, and not only from the whiners.





Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:31 AM
rhorta wrote:

- But the same happens in other MP sims, lot of 3d
- work, few actual additional a/c. I knew that reality
- already.
-
- Is this a bad sim, no
- Is this a product with good support and development,
- yes.
-
- Is there a lot of hot air, yes, and not only from
- the whiners.


Well, yes that is the case here. And I really can't speak for anything but myself, but I do understand the guys who drop their projects. As Gibbage said, there is much more to modelling than just putting together a simple mesh and colouring it. It is a long and tedious process, and many people have not prepared to do such a work. When the reality hits modelling has to give, and I'm sure in many cases rightfully so. I'm just lucky that I have been able to squeeze all the thing in my life in to the few hours available and not having to give up any hobbies or so.

But as I said long and difficult road. Ju-88A-4 cockpit was basically ready polygon wise already in spring, and here we are still, fiddling around with it. And it almost looks like there is no progress at all... Textures and research have kept us busy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


-jippo

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 07:46 AM
As to rear gunner stations. It was not a big deal not to model the rear gunner in the IL-2 field Mod. So who cares about the rear gunner in the Bf-110, or the Pe-2/3, Tu-2. When I'm playin online I don't care if anyone is in back. The AI gunners are better shots anyway. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:13 AM
I think what we as a community should do is STOP bugging the hell out of these guys and Start HELPING them. Reaserch and stuff takes a lot of time away from the modeler when that time could be spent modeling.

I can tell you right now that the B-24 team needs inforamtion on the Bombsite & interior of that plane.

And is stead of griping about the gunner postion in the BF 110...DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. find the drwaings 7 information they need and email it to them. i'm sure they would be more than happy to get any information what so ever no matter how small. That's what i'm doing with the B-24. I want that bomber & i want it flyable. So instead og griping & moaning about it i spent 6 hours scouring the internet to find stuff for them. And they were happy to get what i sent I cant afford the program & i dont have the time to model any thing. So that's what i found i could do to contribute. so lets all chip in and do our part and leave the dam whining to the forum trolls.

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XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 08:43 AM
BlackJack57 wrote:
- When I'm playin online I don't
- care if anyone is in back. The AI gunners are
- better shots anyway.

LMAO thats so true
i like to be in teh back cause its fun being in a plane with a freind



back to topic tho ......


WE ARE IN 2003

NEXT MADDOX FLIGHT SIM WILL BE ANOTHER 14 MONTHS

AT LEAST !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



rhorta wrote:


- Is this a bad sim, no
- Is this a product with good support and development,
- yes.
-
- Is there a lot of hot air, yes, and not only from
- the whiners.


LMAO ..... THAT is also sooo TRUE

XyZspineZyX
10-07-2003, 06:24 PM
Jippo01 wrote:

- Well, yes that is the case here. And I really can't
- speak for anything but myself, but I do understand
- the guys who drop their projects. As Gibbage said,
- there is much more to modelling than just putting
- together a simple mesh and colouring it. It is a
- long and tedious process, and many people have not
- prepared to do such a work. When the reality hits
- modelling has to give, and I'm sure in many cases
- rightfully so. I'm just lucky that I have been able
- to squeeze all the thing in my life in to the few
- hours available and not having to give up any
- hobbies or so.
-
- But as I said long and difficult road. Ju-88A-4
- cockpit was basically ready polygon wise already in
- spring, and here we are still, fiddling around with
- it. And it almost looks like there is no progress at
- all... Textures and research have kept us busy. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
-
--jippo
-
-

I am glad my last post did not result in a confrontation since I believe we all share a real love for this product. Unfortunately I lack the talent to make 3d models (although with some effort I could go some way in skinning, if..etc etc etc).

Keep up the good work Jippo (enjoying your previous work imensely).

Even surprised to see there might be a Ju 87 D-5 which I nagged about many moons ago, some of that nagging directed at yourself.

In a way I happy that 1C is taking more controle of development, that's also something I have argued for in the past and I guess with control comes cost.

In the end its for the better.

I'll carry this thought on in another post, because I want to keep this one positive.

------

Ah, I still think that if 1C is taking more strict control, we should have a special development forum on UBI where the 3rd party plane builder can post his wants CENTRALLY. So we can help where we can. You might even make that forum read only, or heavily moderated at best. No discussion, but information flow.


Ruy "SPADES" Horta
http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta
-----------------------------
Il-2 - VEF JG 77
-----------------------------
'95-02 - WB Jagdgeschwader 53
'99-00 - DoA Jagdstaffel 18
-----------------------------
The rest is history...

http:\\www.xs4all.nl\~rhorta\brother.jpg