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View Full Version : Jade Raymond should be producing the next SC game.



CriminalOrigins
06-16-2007, 08:57 PM
Why?

1. Because she's hot.

2. Because she actually knows what she's doing.

These attributes would be a great improvement over our current producers.

SPROGGY
06-16-2007, 09:28 PM
Why dont the current producers know what theyre doing?

CriminalOrigins
06-16-2007, 10:39 PM
They're driving the series into the ground...

Knot3D
06-16-2007, 10:49 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
They're driving the series into the ground...

Yeah, Sam's a fugitive now ; he's going ' underground '.

Wicked! You know...

Seriously ; Jade & team are the ones with the orginal concept of social/active stealth and it looks like it'll work great for this brand new IP, named Assassin's Creed.

Would i trade in my girlfriend for Jade ? ehm,... lol

Chief_Goldblum
06-16-2007, 11:45 PM
not hot.

SPROGGY
06-17-2007, 08:16 AM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
They're driving the series into the ground...

I disagree. This is the same dev team that made CT, by far the best game in the series. They know what theyre doing.

Hypno1988
06-17-2007, 09:46 AM
I don't think she does jack **** on the game itself. She's just a pretty face they put in there, gave her a fancy title, and put her out there to let the masses know what they're doing.

And that's what she does. No more.

MKCC14
06-17-2007, 10:02 AM
I think not, she never even worked or possibly played a SC game, so she wont know much of what to do with the game. The Montreal team always delivers top-notch products so they dont need a replacement anytime soon.

Georg_Maximus
06-17-2007, 01:18 PM
First, I guess the entire AC dev team is worthy of praise, not only Jade, and second, by the looks of things, the SC dev team has already copied and pasted much of the AC dev team's job. I wouldn't be surprised if the whole medieval/modern plot line in AC eventually culminates in Altair being Sam Fisher's ancestor, only to justify the identical gameplay.

And then, Jade will <STRIKE>be queen of Ubisoft, and subdue us all with social stealth and enemy detection instincts</STRIKE> rule http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

SPROGGY
06-17-2007, 01:34 PM
Id hit that for sure.....

Hypno1988
06-17-2007, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
the SC dev team has already copied and pasted much of the AC dev team's job.
First, both titles are made by Ubisoft Montreal, but no, they are not using the same engines. Jade has said this herself.

CriminalOrigins
06-17-2007, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by Hypno1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
the SC dev team has already copied and pasted much of the AC dev team's job.
First, both titles are made by Ubisoft Montreal, but no, they are not using the same engines. Jade has said this herself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The SC team took a lot of AC's ideas though...

MKCC14
06-17-2007, 02:06 PM
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

CriminalOrigins
06-17-2007, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC?

MKCC14
06-17-2007, 02:29 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, thats about it, its similar we all know. But shall i list some differences I have already seen, im sure there will be more:

1. Story(time period)
2. SCC has gadgets
3. SCC has CQC
4. SCC has total environmental damage(it has in AC but not as much)
5. Characters
6. Purpose

I'm sure I have missed some, but anyways they are basically just have the same type of stealth approach.

SPROGGY
06-17-2007, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hypno1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
the SC dev team has already copied and pasted much of the AC dev team's job.
First, both titles are made by Ubisoft Montreal, but no, they are not using the same engines. Jade has said this herself. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The SC team took a lot of AC's ideas
though... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

They havent really "taken" anything. They are the same studio so if anything they may have shared ideas. Its also plausible that the sc dev team came up with the idea themselves. Social stealth is alot more common place and, dare I say realistic, than the shadow gameplay weve grown used to.

CriminalOrigins
06-17-2007, 02:49 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, thats about it, its similar we all know. But shall i list some differences I have already seen, im sure there will be more:

1. Story(time period)
2. SCC has gadgets
3. SCC has CQC
4. SCC has total environmental damage(it has in AC but not as much)
5. Characters
6. Purpose

I'm sure I have missed some, but anyways they are basically just have the same type of stealth approach. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course the games will be different in some ways. They can't possibly copy every idea. Is Sam Fisher really going to travel back in time so he can be like Altair? No. Are they going to use the same characters that are in AC in SC? No. Will both games have the same objectives? No.

Just because Conviction isn't exactly like AC it doesn't mean they didn't take ideas from it. If I made a game called "Stealth Action" and used every idea from Splinter Cell, except changed the time period and characters, would you start listing how the games are different? No. You'd talk about how alike they are.

The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

SPROGGY
06-17-2007, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:


The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

No.....lazy would be using the same ideas over and over again while making small and subtle improvements every year or two. In my opinion theyve proven themselves to be anything but lazy by taking a chance and totally reinventing the series.

CriminalOrigins
06-17-2007, 03:03 PM
Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:


The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

No.....lazy would be using the same ideas over and over again while making small and subtle improvements every year or two. In my opinion theyve proven themselves to be anything but lazy by taking a chance and totally reinventing the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Double Agent they used the same level 4 or 5 times (JBA HQ). That's using the same idea over and over again.

MKCC14
06-17-2007, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, thats about it, its similar we all know. But shall i list some differences I have already seen, im sure there will be more:

1. Story(time period)
2. SCC has gadgets
3. SCC has CQC
4. SCC has total environmental damage(it has in AC but not as much)
5. Characters
6. Purpose

I'm sure I have missed some, but anyways they are basically just have the same type of stealth approach. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course the games will be different in some ways. They can't possibly copy every idea. Is Sam Fisher really going to travel back in time so he can be like Altair? No. Are they going to use the same characters that are in AC in SC? No. Will both games have the same objectives? No.

Just because Conviction isn't exactly like AC it doesn't mean they didn't take ideas from it. If I made a game called "Stealth Action" and used every idea from Splinter Cell, except changed the time period and characters, would you start listing how the games are different? No. You'd talk about how alike they are.

The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I dont see how they are lazy for just using 1 thing that is in another game that they made. The crowd system is the only thing they sort of copied because it does look kind of different. The game isnt that similar to me.

You might as well say MGS3 and SCCT were too similar since thats when both heroes started using a combat knife.

SPROGGY
06-17-2007, 03:24 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:


The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

No.....lazy would be using the same ideas over and over again while making small and subtle improvements every year or two. In my opinion theyve proven themselves to be anything but lazy by taking a chance and totally reinventing the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Double Agent they used the same level 4 or 5 times (JBA HQ). That's using the same idea over and over again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different game, different studio. The argument is that you think Montreal is lazy for doing what they have with Conviction. Yes Montreal made the last gen version of DA, but they also had to follow the same general story line and formula laid out by the Shanghai studio. That outline included those JBA missions that were integral to the plot. I thought it was lazy myself, but it was laziness on Shanghai's part, not Montreal's. The fact that Montreal is making this game is enough to assure me of its quality.

osborne10
06-17-2007, 06:14 PM
the jba missions were a important part of the story.

and yeh that montreal group has no clue about what there doing.they made that terrible game chaos theory. not!
she is hot though

CriminalOrigins
06-17-2007, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:


The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

No.....lazy would be using the same ideas over and over again while making small and subtle improvements every year or two. In my opinion theyve proven themselves to be anything but lazy by taking a chance and totally reinventing the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Double Agent they used the same level 4 or 5 times (JBA HQ). That's using the same idea over and over again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different game, different studio. The argument is that you think Montreal is lazy for doing what they have with Conviction. Yes Montreal made the last gen version of DA, but they also had to follow the same general story line and formula laid out by the Shanghai studio. That outline included those JBA missions that were integral to the plot. I thought it was lazy myself, but it was laziness on Shanghai's part, not Montreal's. The fact that Montreal is making this game is enough to assure me of its quality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say Montreal in particular. Just the whole Splinter Cell team.

Don't think for a second that Montreal team had nothing to do with the decision to have Sam be a double agent. And I'm sure Shanghai was in on the decision for Sam to go rogue in Conviction.

MKCC14
06-17-2007, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:


The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

No.....lazy would be using the same ideas over and over again while making small and subtle improvements every year or two. In my opinion theyve proven themselves to be anything but lazy by taking a chance and totally reinventing the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Double Agent they used the same level 4 or 5 times (JBA HQ). That's using the same idea over and over again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different game, different studio. The argument is that you think Montreal is lazy for doing what they have with Conviction. Yes Montreal made the last gen version of DA, but they also had to follow the same general story line and formula laid out by the Shanghai studio. That outline included those JBA missions that were integral to the plot. I thought it was lazy myself, but it was laziness on Shanghai's part, not Montreal's. The fact that Montreal is making this game is enough to assure me of its quality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say Montreal in particular. Just the whole Splinter Cell team.

Don't think for a second that Montreal team had nothing to do with the decision to have Sam be a double agent. And I'm sure Shanghai was in on the decision for Sam to go rogue in Conviction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course, the whole SC team had to be in on it, but look at how great SCDA for the xbox turned out from Montreal. They still havent failed to deliver quality product. It had a good SP, co-op(15 missions!), and a Spy vs Spy MP that was ok i guess.

SPROGGY
06-17-2007, 10:21 PM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by deepego3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:


The games are similar. Too similar. The Splinter Cell team is getting lazy IMO.

By the way, your sig breaks the rules in about 3 different ways.

No.....lazy would be using the same ideas over and over again while making small and subtle improvements every year or two. In my opinion theyve proven themselves to be anything but lazy by taking a chance and totally reinventing the series. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In Double Agent they used the same level 4 or 5 times (JBA HQ). That's using the same idea over and over again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Different game, different studio. The argument is that you think Montreal is lazy for doing what they have with Conviction. Yes Montreal made the last gen version of DA, but they also had to follow the same general story line and formula laid out by the Shanghai studio. That outline included those JBA missions that were integral to the plot. I thought it was lazy myself, but it was laziness on Shanghai's part, not Montreal's. The fact that Montreal is making this game is enough to assure me of its quality. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I didn't say Montreal in particular. Just the whole Splinter Cell team.

Don't think for a second that Montreal team had nothing to do with the decision to have Sam be a double agent. And I'm sure Shanghai was in on the decision for Sam to go rogue in Conviction. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Im sure they were in on the creative process. But that doesnt mean they were the driving force behind all the JBA missions. Even if they were though, look how well the xbox version turned out in comparison to the 360. Montreal will make sure Conviction is a great game, I have no doubt.

Georg_Maximus
06-18-2007, 12:01 AM
To whatever degree Shanghai and Montreal cooperates, it does seem a bit too coincidential that AC and SCC is being developed simultaniously under the same roof while also sharing much of the same gameplay ingredients. At least they could have kept the light/shadow gameplay in SC for another installment to see how the audience reacted to AC's social stealth gameplay, before changing SC's gameplay. Choosing not to do this, Ubisoft indicates that SC is becoming a victim of spending reduction policies from the Ubi finance departement, and that they rather want to invest in building up a new flag ship franchise than maintaining the old one.

marinius
06-18-2007, 05:24 AM
Hear hear Georg_Maximus!

If people don't see the glaring similarities between SCC and AC, well, they're just sticking their heads in the sand. Some people in these forums have made it their business not to utter a single statement that can be construed as negative toward SCC. I guess that's fine, but their opinions should then be taken rather lightly.

Up until now, the discussions here have been pretty much pro/con the new gameplay that have been revealed for SCC. Though many people seem unable to put forth intelligent arguments as to why they are either for or against, I still haven't really seen people questioning the fact that all the evidence point to this:

The new core gameplay for SCC is based around "social stealth", "active stealth, "crowd stealth" - call it what you will, it's gameplay invented for AC utilized for SCC. You got two Ubi dev teams working in Montreal, the work on AC started a few months before SCC - coincidence then that the dev team for SCC just happens to go for this social stealth-concept?

Chinese_Bookey
06-18-2007, 07:28 AM
Originally posted by marinius:
The new core gameplay for SCC is based around "social stealth", "active stealth, "crowd stealth" - call it what you will
Nu-stealth. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sadeyes.gif

capteenix
06-18-2007, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, thats about it, its similar we all know. But shall i list some differences I have already seen, im sure there will be more:

1. Story(time period)
2. SCC has gadgets
3. SCC has CQC
4. SCC has total environmental damage(it has in AC but not as much)
5. Characters
6. Purpose

I'm sure I have missed some, but anyways they are basically just have the same type of stealth approach. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I agree, but you still will be doing Objective that doesn't fail if you fail, but contiues until done, like in AC
2. Disagree. Like Altair Doesn't Have this small Stick coming from his fingers? It's a gadget. and Altair has a lot of gadgets.
3. Disagree. Altair does perform this. WAtch the newest trailer
4. Well, its still Environmental Damage :P
5. Well since this is a different game of course characters will have its own Factor.
6. Disagree. Even if the Purpose is different in two games, it doesn't mean that it might be copied from other. Copy the idea and make your own purpose that is.

Basically only 1-2 differences actually. SCC has crowd and Cops, Hero Vision to see the cops. If Cops see you they will hunt you down and while they are doing that, you have to Disappear in the crowd - run. Use grav-maga against them, but do your Objective.

That alone is Exactly What AC is, just change Cops to Knights, hero vision to whatever it is in AC and Sam Fisher To Altair.

SPROGGY
06-18-2007, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by marinius:
Hear hear Georg_Maximus!

If people don't see the glaring similarities between SCC and AC, well, they're just sticking their heads in the sand. Some people in these forums have made it their business not to utter a single statement that can be construed as negative toward SCC. I guess that's fine, but their opinions should then be taken rather lightly.

Up until now, the discussions here have been pretty much pro/con the new gameplay that have been revealed for SCC. Though many people seem unable to put forth intelligent arguments as to why they are either for or against, I still haven't really seen people questioning the fact that all the evidence point to this:

The new core gameplay for SCC is based around "social stealth", "active stealth, "crowd stealth" - call it what you will, it's gameplay invented for AC utilized for SCC. You got two Ubi dev teams working in Montreal, the work on AC started a few months before SCC - coincidence then that the dev team for SCC just happens to go for this social stealth-concept?

Its a logical progression guys. Sam ended the last game as a fugitive and he continues as one in Conviction. The social stealth idea is not a new one, it just wasnt possible until recently. I dont really see why it matters if they collaborated with the AC devs anyways. Thats has little to do with the quality of the game. If anything it would be beneficial having input from an equally competent outside team.

MKCC14
06-18-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by capteenix:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, thats about it, its similar we all know. But shall i list some differences I have already seen, im sure there will be more:

1. Story(time period)
2. SCC has gadgets
3. SCC has CQC
4. SCC has total environmental damage(it has in AC but not as much)
5. Characters
6. Purpose

I'm sure I have missed some, but anyways they are basically just have the same type of stealth approach. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I agree, but you still will be doing Objective that doesn't fail if you fail, but contiues until done, like in AC
2. Disagree. Like Altair Doesn't Have this small Stick coming from his fingers? It's a gadget. and Altair has a lot of gadgets.
3. Disagree. Altair does perform this. WAtch the newest trailer
4. Well, its still Environmental Damage :P
5. Well since this is a different game of course characters will have its own Factor.
6. Disagree. Even if the Purpose is different in two games, it doesn't mean that it might be copied from other. Copy the idea and make your own purpose that is.

Basically only 1-2 differences actually. SCC has crowd and Cops, Hero Vision to see the cops. If Cops see you they will hunt you down and while they are doing that, you have to Disappear in the crowd - run. Use grav-maga against them, but do your Objective.

That alone is Exactly What AC is, just change Cops to Knights, hero vision to whatever it is in AC and Sam Fisher To Altair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
2. I dont really see that as a gadget compared to what Sam is using and how he uses it. Sam uses his to distract and evade.(Its not coming from his fingers, I heard that they cut off one of his fingers and replaces it with a knife or something or small blade...all the assassins have it.)

3. They are totally different. Altair uses a sword and can die in one blow. Sam has to use the environment and does his CQC with a series of punches, kicks(i think), etc.

4. Not like SCC though, Altair cant pick up any object around him...the only thing I seen he can do with the environment was cut down this thing to block the path behind him so the guards cant follow him.

They are similar yes, but are not completely a rip-off of each other like True Crime is a complete rip-off of GTA(and Max Payne).

Check out that new game Vampire Rain, total rip and combination of MGS and SC with a different story and characters(even the animations look SO close to Sam Fisher's...like climbing a pipe.)

marinius
06-18-2007, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by capteenix:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
Meh, only one trailer I cant really see a lot that is taken over.

Doesn't this "crowd system" seem almost exactly like "social stealth" introduced in AC? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Yeah, thats about it, its similar we all know. But shall i list some differences I have already seen, im sure there will be more:

1. Story(time period)
2. SCC has gadgets
3. SCC has CQC
4. SCC has total environmental damage(it has in AC but not as much)
5. Characters
6. Purpose

I'm sure I have missed some, but anyways they are basically just have the same type of stealth approach. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1. I agree, but you still will be doing Objective that doesn't fail if you fail, but contiues until done, like in AC
2. Disagree. Like Altair Doesn't Have this small Stick coming from his fingers? It's a gadget. and Altair has a lot of gadgets.
3. Disagree. Altair does perform this. WAtch the newest trailer
4. Well, its still Environmental Damage :P
5. Well since this is a different game of course characters will have its own Factor.
6. Disagree. Even if the Purpose is different in two games, it doesn't mean that it might be copied from other. Copy the idea and make your own purpose that is.

Basically only 1-2 differences actually. SCC has crowd and Cops, Hero Vision to see the cops. If Cops see you they will hunt you down and while they are doing that, you have to Disappear in the crowd - run. Use grav-maga against them, but do your Objective.

That alone is Exactly What AC is, just change Cops to Knights, hero vision to whatever it is in AC and Sam Fisher To Altair. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

You nailed it Capteenix. The similarities are astonishing really, even down to Sam's hero vision and some sort of focus vision that Altair has to locate his target. Most of MKCC14's so-called "differences" aren't valid at all. Story, character and purpose...? Well, you copy that along with all the other stuff you get two *identical* games...

CriminalOrigins
06-18-2007, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by marinius:
Hear hear Georg_Maximus!

If people don't see the glaring similarities between SCC and AC, well, they're just sticking their heads in the sand. Some people in these forums have made it their business not to utter a single statement that can be construed as negative toward SCC. I guess that's fine, but their opinions should then be taken rather lightly.

Up until now, the discussions here have been pretty much pro/con the new gameplay that have been revealed for SCC. Though many people seem unable to put forth intelligent arguments as to why they are either for or against, I still haven't really seen people questioning the fact that all the evidence point to this:

The new core gameplay for SCC is based around "social stealth", "active stealth, "crowd stealth" - call it what you will, it's gameplay invented for AC utilized for SCC. You got two Ubi dev teams working in Montreal, the work on AC started a few months before SCC - coincidence then that the dev team for SCC just happens to go for this social stealth-concept?

You an capteenix nailed it.

That's what I wanted to say but it didn't come out like that :P

SplinterCell_37
06-18-2007, 06:34 PM
"1. Because she's hot."

How the hell is this thread still running? Shouldn't someone have closed it by now? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Okay, one, to all the people who think Jade does nothing: producers actually do a LOT of work, and from interviews she's been a lead developer for quite a few games, so I doubt she's kicking back and enjoying a cup of tea while the rest of the team is slaving away.

Two, the main reason you want her is because she looks good? Isn't that a worse reason than "keep the current developers who have been working on Splinter Cell since day one"? You want someone else because you think they do their job better, yet all you can think of is "She's hot" and "They know what they're doing".
Who says Montreal DOESN'T know what they're doing? In fact, we're the only ones who don't know what they're doing.

This is just ridiculous. I really hope that Ubisoft releases some NSA gameplay at E3 so we can lose these threads.

CriminalOrigins
06-18-2007, 06:47 PM
Originally posted by SplinterCell_37:
"1. Because she's hot."

How the hell is this thread still running? Shouldn't someone have closed it by now? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Okay, one, to all the people who think Jade does nothing: producers actually do a LOT of work, and from interviews she's been a lead developer for quite a few games, so I doubt she's kicking back and enjoying a cup of tea while the rest of the team is slaving away.

Two, the main reason you want her is because she looks good? Isn't that a worse reason than "keep the current developers who have been working on Splinter Cell since day one"? You want someone else because you think they do their job better, yet all you can think of is "She's hot" and "They know what they're doing".
Who says Montreal DOESN'T know what they're doing? In fact, we're the only ones who don't know what they're doing.

This is just ridiculous. I really hope that Ubisoft releases some NSA gameplay at E3 so we can lose these threads.

Have you seen some of the interviews she's done? She seems pretty knowledgable.

Then you go watch an interview a demonstration with some working on Splinter Cell and they're like "Sam is a stealthy guy with like...a hoodie... and he like...people don't notice him..."

Georg_Maximus
06-19-2007, 12:19 AM
I guess one of the qualifications a producer needs to have is representational skills, as she will be subject to interviews and press announcements. A regular dev needs to only know his code, and when confronted with a question on gameplay, he just may sound like a ******. I mean c'mon: I'm sure Jade is good at what she does, but Assassin's Creed would be a sorry affair is she was all alone on it. I actually don't think it's any of the dev teams that are Ubi's weakest link these days, but their marketing and finance departements.

marinius
06-19-2007, 12:42 AM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
You an capteenix nailed it.

That's what I wanted to say but it didn't come out like that :P

Thanks Crim, appriciate that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
I believe you nailed it yourself here:

"Have you seen some of the interviews she's done? She seems pretty knowledgable.

Then you go watch an interview a demonstration with some working on Splinter Cell and they're like "Sam is a stealthy guy with like...a hoodie... and he like...people don't notice him...""

Jade really knows how to sell AC, no doubt about that. Listening to what she has to say about that game truly makes me wanna play it. The attempts at selling SCC though have been far less convincing to me...

And let's go with the Bookey's suggestion of nu-stealth, that pretty much covers what we're talking about.

Georg_Maximus
06-19-2007, 02:01 AM
Originally posted by marinius:
Jade really knows how to sell AC, no doubt about that. Listening to what she has to say about that game truly makes me wanna play it. The attempts at selling SCC though have been far less convincing to me...

Hmmm, well if Jade was promoting SC by saying how the game would be buildt around nu-stealth, she would suddently not be so "hot" around here anymore, I guess http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

marinius
06-19-2007, 02:07 AM
Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marinius:
Jade really knows how to sell AC, no doubt about that. Listening to what she has to say about that game truly makes me wanna play it. The attempts at selling SCC though have been far less convincing to me...

Hmmm, well if Jade was promoting SC by saying how the game would be buildt around nu-stealth, she would suddently not be so "hot" around here anymore, I guess http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hehe, probably not! But the point is, she's doing a great job explaining what this new and exciting game is gonna be like, enticing people like myself to buy it. Monsieur Ferland is doing a not so great job explaining why it's necessary to ruin what used to be a great game franchise.

Hypno1988
06-19-2007, 06:30 AM
Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
Have you seen some of the interviews she's done? She seems pretty knowledgable.

Then you go watch an interview a demonstration with some working on Splinter Cell and they're like "Sam is a stealthy guy with like...a hoodie... and he like...people don't notice him..."
He's from France... Jade Raymond is from America... guess who has better knowledge in english? If he could explain in his own native language, it would sound much better and more proffesional. Have you seen the interview where Jade is talking with a french guy? She doesn't even know how to say some words...

marinius
06-19-2007, 07:02 AM
Originally posted by Hypno1988:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CriminalOrigins:
Have you seen some of the interviews she's done? She seems pretty knowledgable.

Then you go watch an interview a demonstration with some working on Splinter Cell and they're like "Sam is a stealthy guy with like...a hoodie... and he like...people don't notice him..."
He's from France... Jade Raymond is from America... guess who has better knowledge in english? If he could explain in his own native language, it would sound much better and more proffesional. Have you seen the interview where Jade is talking with a french guy? She doesn't even know how to say some words... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's funny, there was a prolonged discussion in the AC-forums about Jade's language skills. one guy posted this:

"The producer, the lovely Jade Raymond, speaks French as her first language and English is her second language"

Anyhow, all I know is that she's from Montreal and that she's supposedly fluent in French. That notwithstanding, you gotta give her credit for her efforts in communicating the greatness of AC to the public and the media. Any way you slice it, this has been an important factor in creating all the buzz surrounding this new game. I wouldn't say Ferland or anyone else from the SCC-team has quite managed the same...

SPROGGY
06-19-2007, 07:59 AM
Ferland is a developer, not a marketer. The games hes overseen thus far have been fantastic, regardless of his PR shortcomings.

MKCC14
06-19-2007, 09:56 AM
You guys are ripping on Ferland for not explaining and creating anticipation for the game...but these are the same people that made SCCT, which was one of the most anticipated titles of 2005.

marinius
06-19-2007, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
You guys are ripping on Ferland for not explaining and creating anticipation for the game...but these are the same people that made SCCT, which was one of the most anticipated titles of 2005.

That it was and rightly so. Why then, do you suppose Ferland and the rest of the guys are having a much tougher time pushing this game? Could it be that they've made some seriously bad decisions in the process of making what should've been a new Splinter Cell game? Well, that's what I believe. A prime example of this is to be found in this thread, where a dev is demonstrating some gameplay:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/8001070765/p/2

What this guy's saying and doing is hilarious and deeply disappointing at the same time.

MKCC14
06-19-2007, 01:14 PM
Originally posted by marinius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
You guys are ripping on Ferland for not explaining and creating anticipation for the game...but these are the same people that made SCCT, which was one of the most anticipated titles of 2005.

That it was and rightly so. Why then, do you suppose Ferland and the rest of the guys are having a much tougher time pushing this game? Could it be that they've made some seriously bad decisions in the process of making what should've been a new Splinter Cell game? Well, that's what I believe. A prime example of this is to be found in this thread, where a dev is demonstrating some gameplay:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/8001070765/p/2

What this guy's saying and doing is hilarious and deeply disappointing at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You may be right...but they havent revealed much. Mostly next to nothing because there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered. He may be having a hard time explaining without revealing too much because in the past they have revealed way too much on the SC games to me. I mean it is our fault for looking at all the info and vids they release but even the ending of SCCT was on the internet before the game came out.

But you never know...I never seen this game interview before anyway...might be the first time for him.

CriminalOrigins
06-19-2007, 02:06 PM
Originally posted by MKCC14:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by marinius:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MKCC14:
You guys are ripping on Ferland for not explaining and creating anticipation for the game...but these are the same people that made SCCT, which was one of the most anticipated titles of 2005.

That it was and rightly so. Why then, do you suppose Ferland and the rest of the guys are having a much tougher time pushing this game? Could it be that they've made some seriously bad decisions in the process of making what should've been a new Splinter Cell game? Well, that's what I believe. A prime example of this is to be found in this thread, where a dev is demonstrating some gameplay:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5271091065/m/8001070765/p/2

What this guy's saying and doing is hilarious and deeply disappointing at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You may be right...but they havent revealed much. Mostly next to nothing because there are still a lot of questions that need to be answered. He may be having a hard time explaining without revealing too much because in the past they have revealed way too much on the SC games to me. I mean it is our fault for looking at all the info and vids they release but even the ending of SCCT was on the internet before the game came out.

But you never know...I never seen this game interview before anyway...might be the first time for him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't think it was just a bad interview. I think he was describing exactly what the game is like.

"Frogger-like gameplay"

Ah, yes.

SPROGGY
06-19-2007, 02:17 PM
Yes, Im sure the team that delivered SC1 and SCCT will provide us with a game that plays just like frogger....... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I mean come on! With the advances in technology and A.I. how could Conviction ever live up to the last gen games http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

marinius
06-20-2007, 12:18 AM
Originally posted by deepego3:
Yes, Im sure the team that delivered SC1 and SCCT will provide us with a game that plays just like frogger....... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I mean come on! With the advances in technology and A.I. how could Conviction ever live up to the last gen games http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

No, I'm in fact quite sure this game won't play much like Frogger deepego3. But just the fact that this guy can say something like that is indicative of things going downhill.

Maybe you enjoyed what you saw in the video: walking behind people to be stealthy, listening in on conversations with people for a while - but stopping before you get noticed (!), going crazy in a café pushing the cash register off the counter, and so on...wow, I tell you, I wasn't really awe-struck! If this is your thing, then by all means look forward to SCC.

Btw, the shooting of propane tank to create a diversion is very similar to the way we've always been able to create distractions in SC. I myself have shot many a fire extinguisher for instance. Why this feature of the game is being hailed by the devs as something very special is for now beyond me.

Georg_Maximus
06-20-2007, 12:18 AM
That guy in the interview seems to think that breaking everything in that cafe is amusing gameplay - how the heck did he end up in the SC dev team?

And how "stealthy" is it to walk over to a group and suddently start mimicing their moves - if anything, you would be concidered a ****** on the loose. For every piece of info about SCC that is made available, it seems to go from bad to worse.

marinius
06-20-2007, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by Georg_Maximus:
That guy in the interview seems to think that breaking everything in that cafe is amusing gameplay - how the heck did he end up in the SC dev team?

<span class="ev_code_GREEN">And how "stealthy" is it to walk over to a group and suddently start mimicing their moves - if anything, you would be concidered a ****** on the loose.</span> For every piece of info about SCC that is made available, it seems to go from bad to worse.

Lol, my thought exactly! If I for some reason were to do something like this in the city park where I live, I would definitely NOT go unnoticed. People would consider me a ******, a drunk or a junkie and if the police were nearby, I'm sure they'd stop me for questioning. So, a good idea if you wanna make trouble for yourself, but hardly the thing to do if you wanna be left alone...