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SOLO_Bones
06-21-2005, 06:11 PM
I have watched the training track, done everything I can think of, But, as soon as I leave the deck my plane immediately flips over onto it's back!!. What is going on? What am I doing wrong? Please help. This is driving me nuts.

Chuck_Older
06-21-2005, 06:13 PM
I'm going to have to hear a step by step report of what you're doing before i can decide if something you're doing is wrong http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

SOLO_Bones
06-21-2005, 06:19 PM
Thanks Chuck. I'm sitting here just waiting for replies. My checklist is as follows:

Flaps to takeoff
Neutralize all trim, then set a bit o elevator trim.
Prop pitch to 100% Mixture 100%
Start Engine
Remove chocks
Apply brakes and throttle up to full
Release brakes and head down the deck with rudder correction for torque.
Reach end of runway, flip over, go for swim.

Refly

Repeat all that over again

Throw something.

Chuck_Older
06-21-2005, 06:26 PM
Have you tried the same thing on land?

One of the first things I noticed in 4.01 was a 'bobbing' up and down on takeoff roll

To eliminate this I added a little filtering on my pitch axis in the sim. It's under hardware configuration, I beleive

ronison
06-21-2005, 06:51 PM
Few other things to try. See if just keeping the elevator tirm set to neutral helps. I dont dial in any extra. Also I dont know if you are adding any up elevator when you leave the deck but dont do that at all. Keep it at the same attatude you did to keep your prop from diging into the deck. If you add in extra elevator to get your nose up you end up cuting out your speed gain and you need this after you leave the deck or you flounder. If you watch the old flight films most aircraft diped below the deck after leaving the deck. Also you have to have exactly the right amount of rudder or it just plows you into the drink.

One other thing... is the carrier moving or static if static you pretty much have to start in the third or forth aircraft back or you simply cant get enough speed to take off unless...... The last suggestion I can think of is lessen your fule on take off. This can help you excellerate faster.

I pretty much only fly US navy aircraft in the sim so have alot of take offs and landings snece 4.01 came out.

golfbravopi
06-21-2005, 07:13 PM
I have had similar troubles but beat it the other day. By the way, what aircraft are you flying? I was able to take off (admittedly, in 3.04m) with a SeaFire with no problem (I presume because it's so light)--the F4U-1A was the bear for me, both in 3.04m and 4.01m.

I did the F4U-1A single mission carrier takeoff 1. After snapping into the waves many tens of times, I watched the Corsair on the other carrier takeoff. When I tried to match his pitch settings during my roll, I only reached the waves much faster. Eventually I managed to ALMOST take off a couple times, then finally got it.

I've posted tracks for two near-takeoffs and one actual takeoff at

http://filebox.vt.edu/g/gbuesche/pftracks/

I was pretty frustrated and almost posted here myself but finally figured out at least one way to get off the deck (without even using 100% power, which I figured was cheating since it's bad for the engine).

1. Flaps to takeoff.
2. Engine start and rev to 95-97% power.
3. Let RPMs maximize.
4. Leave the trim alone (probably not necessary, just have to be consistent so you get used to it, I expect).
5. Right rudder to counteract torque and P-effect.
6. Release chocks.
7. Hold nose as straight down the centerline of the flight deck as possible.
8. Let the tail come up naturally, or use only very slight down elevator.
9. Near the end of the deck, pull back on the stick steadily to hold the nose such that the top of the cowl appears to be about 1/3-gunsight diameter above the horizon. KEEP THE NOSE POINTED IN THIS ATTITUDE!
10. Retract gear as you go over the edge.
11. HOLD THE SAME ATTITUDE AND PRAY!

I rewarded myself by trimming for max speed at a couple power settings to catch the Avengers, then practicing gunnery on them (need much work there).

I'm guessing the correct pitch angle is different for different aircraft, and I had to run off so haven't even repeated my success with the U-Bird, but I've got the track, so I now know at least it's possible! I can't imagine the real aircraft was really that twitchy, but I'm not complaining, it's fun. Will try later to use elevator trim to achieve the proper attitude, but that would be a LOT of trim...

Good luck! I haven't tried the Hellcat or Wildcat yet--think I got the Dauntless off (unloaded) pretty easily, though.

golfbravopi
06-21-2005, 07:20 PM
Additionally--it seems any little roll or yaw once you get up rapidly sets me toward stall, so I try to damp out any such oscillation as early as possible, or preferably come off the deck with no oscillation at all.

Also, I suspect your brakes might be slipping while you're throttling up. Leave the chocks in till you're ready to go, then yank 'em.

AerialTarget
06-21-2005, 07:27 PM
The only way I can consistently take off from a still carrier at the default spawn position with an F-4U Corsair with a full fuel load is to put down landing flaps, use war emergency power, and hold it with the brakes.

The flipping over onto your back that you speak of it happening because you don't have enough airspeed to hold your nose up. Try my suggestion, or taxi back to the other end of the carrier. Also, try telling your carrier captain to get his rear in gear and start his engines!

FritzGryphon
06-21-2005, 07:45 PM
Use more power too. No reason you can't use 110% with water inject and over-rich mix.

Get you another 10 klicks.

Atomic_Marten
06-21-2005, 07:50 PM
Let us know what do you fly. Which aircraft specifically.. and what is more important what is your loadout and your level of fuel?

Also I have noticed that you are applying brakes. You do not need to apply the brakes at all during the take off. Only rudder to correct your path.

Also you can use 120%mix., rad.full open, but that ain't so necessary to use as 110% throttle with BOOST/WEP on.

ronison
06-21-2005, 07:54 PM
Try my suggestion, or taxi back to the other end of the carrier.

AerialTarget how do you taxi to the back of the ship? There is not enough room on deck to turn around that I have seen. So unless someone invents reverse in the aircraft I cant see this happining. Or if your suggesting taking off the oppisit direction you have possibly 3 other problems facing you.

1. Other aircraft in the way.

2. Negative airflow over the wings due to forward, now to you backward, movement of the ship.

3. Turning around without going off the side of the ship.

And before someone suggests firing your guns to make your plane go backwards yes I know this works kinda. But then would you have enough ammo to take out anything? Oh ya unlimited ammo my mistake http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Atomic_Marten
06-21-2005, 08:27 PM
ronison you can rotate almost in place with most of fighter aircraft in the game. It is no big secret..

full rudder, power (some ammount than cut and repeat process) and brakes hard.

At least that was in 3.04. I did not take much attention to 4.01 taxiing, from feedback I have seen on forums it is harder, but it really should not be.
Since low speed taxiing in RL is piece of cake from what I have seen.

AerialTarget
06-21-2005, 08:44 PM
In real life, using differential braking is easier because American airplanes like the Corsair have seperate toe brakes. Even the Russians have adapted this system for their carrier based fighters, although they kept their old system (which happens to be the one universally modelled in the game for both Western and Russian aircraft) for the land based ones.

I've never taxied a taildragger, but a tricycle is indeed much easier to taxi at low speeds in real life. Of course, a Cessna's nosewheel is connected to the pedals, unlike a P-38 Lightning. The problem in the game seems to be linked to the power - the nose keeps swinging long after you've brought the power down. I suspect it may be a bit much.

So, yes, it probably is more difficult than it should be, but who knows? Anyway, here (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/Corsair%20Taxi.ntrk) is a track of an F-4U being taxied to the back of a carrier, Ronison. It really helps to have rudder pedals, but it can be done with keyboard as well. Just make sure you hold the brakes and pull the stick back.

Here (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/Horrible%20Carrier%20Landing.ntrk) and here (http://users.adelphia.net/~j.r.engdahl/josh/Bouncing%20Over%20the%20Hellcat.trk) are some of my own amusing Corsair carrier incidents.

Brass_Monkey
06-21-2005, 08:44 PM
I had the same problem with the Corsair, in the drink every time with all normal takeoff settings until I set a "bunch" of right rudder trim. No problems since. Right rudder trim will help you overcome the torque after lift off.

Oilburner_TAW
06-21-2005, 08:50 PM
solo..check your pm's

Genuine_Ace
06-21-2005, 09:10 PM
Hi there SOLO,
If i were u, i would set the flaps and the other things, and put the trottle to 95-100% and wait until the engine is at max rev. then remove the chocks and counter the tourge with your rudder. wait until you are at the end of the carrier befoer pulling up (DO THIS GENTALLY). I don't ever worry about the brakes, i just pretend that the chocks are the brakes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

<span class="ev_code_RED">REMEMBER</span>: Only slowy pull the nose up at the end of the carrier....this should hopefully work....i hope my and the other peoples help you do perform a good takeoff on the carrier, Cheers

VW-IceFire
06-21-2005, 09:51 PM
Here's my procedure:
Start engine
Set radiator to half open (4 or 6)
Throttle up to 95%
Tap elevator trim up
Throttle to full 110%
*Set fuel mix to 120%
Release chocks
Immediate rudder response to counter torque
Drop combat flaps
Drop takeoff flaps (just before leaving the deck)
Pull up ever so slightly
Away we go

*I don't do this unless I have extra armament

idonno
06-21-2005, 10:52 PM
The majority of my take-offs in PF have probably been in the Corsair with 100% fuel from a stationary CV. Also I've spent a good bit of time trying different techniques and trim settings to perfect these take-offs.

I assume that the airplane is rolling to the left when you go swimming. It's rolling over because it's stalling, and as unnatural as it may seem, the only way to break that stall is to lower the nose. It doesn't matter how much aileron and rudder you use, when the wings are stalled, the engine is going to roll the airplane over.

THE most important bit of advise that has been given here is to not try to pull the nose up. Don't try to force the plane to climb, or even to maintain altitude. The airplane will settle toward the water, there's no way around it, so just let it. Only pull back on the stick enough to keep it out of the water. As your airspeed picks up, the airplane will finally start to climb without any further back pressure on the stick.

Trim is more a matter of personal preference. I use 16 clicks of right rudder, 22 clicks up elevator, and 1 click of right aileron. These trim settings set the airplane up for a 125 knot climb. According to the WWII F4U training film at Zeno's Warbird Video Dive-In, Vy (best rate of climb airspeed) for the Corsair is 125 knots. With these settings you'll need just a little right aileron and a little right rudder as you go off the deck, but just a little bit of these. It's more just putting pressure on the stick and the peddle rather than actually moving them.

RAF74_Poker
06-21-2005, 11:11 PM
Here:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3961...331019033#5331019033 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/26310365/m/3961058033/r/5331019033#5331019033)

SOLO_Bones
06-22-2005, 06:56 PM
Thank you all for your help. I've taken much of the advice, practised considerably and can now take off successfully most of the time. I'll just have to keep going at it until I can do it right everytime.