View Full Version : Newer Xbox 360 With HDMI Is Required For Stereoscopic 3D

07-29-2009, 10:17 PM
Uh oh, I was an early 360 adopter, and don't have HDMI, nor will my current projector do 3D. Looks like this may be something that I look back to do again sometime in the future, when I am ready for 3D. I will have to play 2D for now.

From http://gamesblog.ugo.com/games...r-in-3d-says-ubisoft (http://gamesblog.ugo.com/games/3d-tv-doesn-t-guarantee-avatar-in-3d-says-ubisoft)

3D TV Doesn’t Guarantee 3D Avatar Says Ubisoft
Posted by Chris Plante at 5:02PM in PC, PS3, Xbox 360

I just braved the kind of storm that makes you wonder if God hates New York City - stinky streets, muggy subway, irritable cabbies. But that’s neither here nor there, because what pulled me away from my warm, cozy desk, was a showing of Ubisoft’s hefty lineup. Here’s the skinny on one of their biggest titles, James Cameron's Avatar: The Video Game, dry and ready for you perusal.

Avatar, an adaptation of James Cameron’s 3D film/holiday spectacular of the same name, will allow next-gen console owners to play in 3D. Sort of. After some eyes-on time with the title today, I have the scoop on the set-up necessary to explore the lush tropical planet of Pandora in stereoscopic glory.

First, you’ll need a 3D television and 3D glasses. (Natch.) While the very idea of a 3D TV might sound like a luxury for most, the novel device is cheaper than you might think. In fact, many Best Buys already carry 3D TVs. Of course, you’d never know it because so few films or games warrant the tech and the floor space to show it.

Second, you’ll need a 360, PS3 or PC and the appropriate copy of the game. The Nintendo DS, PSP and Wii games will not feature 3D gameplay. Why not, well…

Third, you’ll need a console or computer that supports HDMI cables. This is the messy part. See, my 360 doesn’t support HDMI – I was an early adopter. Avatar’s 3D technology requires a 1080p resolution from an HDMI cable. No cable, no luck.

That’s it. If you have all three – I mean, who doesn’t? – you are all set to experience video games like never before. Unless you’ve played G-Force, that game’s in 3D too and it’s available in stores.

That sh@t has talking hamsters! Cameron’s got nothing on that!

07-29-2009, 10:56 PM
Hmm. Looks like theres some spending to do then

07-30-2009, 12:46 AM
Gordo, yea I posted that article at AMZ and while it's a tidy low down of the basics, there's a whole lot more to the 3D TV world and the hurdles it faces.

It omits important information such as some television are already 3D ready. Secondly, when you say projector, I assume you mean that literally - you have a projector. From the articles I have read, Plasma is the only format that will deliver the true 3D tech. I don't know of any true 3D projectors nor have I heard if the LCD format is capable. But I'm certainly no expert in the field, so it's possible they exist.

If someone has a plasma, look for the symbol 'DLP' somewhere on your tv. If it has it, it's quite possible you are 3D TV ready. Check your manual for details or call the 800 number in the manual to confirm if the DLP icon on your model indicates 3D ready.

Important thing is, you need to educate yourself on the new format. Panasonic had already announced the world's first 3D Full HD Plasma Home Theater System (3D FHD) at the International Consumer Electronics Show 2009.

There are several articles you can read up on it here.... AvatarMovieZone.com - 3D Television (http://www.surrealaward.com/avatar/3ddigital14.shtml)

07-31-2009, 10:23 AM
amzone, I have a DLP projector. I know that there are plenty of rear projection DLP units that (Samsung and Mits mostly) will work well with the field-sequential glasses. Plasma??? That seems to be the LEAST supported technology. I really like how the newer LCD sets offer circular polarized 3D. This way, the glasses aren't so expensive as the shutter-glasses, and should be lighter, exactly like the RealD glasses in the theater. The problem with the front projectors is, most of the them will not process the 120Hz signal properly. The Infocus DepthQ (720p DLP) is the only one I know of on the market.

For 3D HDTVs, I use this website to find compatible HDTVs: http://www.3dmovielist.com/3dhdtvs.html

08-01-2009, 03:43 PM

Well Panasonic seems to be banking on Plasma with their first true 3D Home theater system. It would seem odd to me that a longstanding manufacturer as big as Panasonic would throw their dice at a monitor that you state is the least supported technology.

Plasma currently dominates the home theater stores that I have been to. The choice of Plasma selections are much larger than LCD or projection in just about every store I have been in. I would think that manufacturers would focus their upcoming 3D technology to cater to the more popular format.

But hey, like I said, I am no expert in the field, just a casual reader.

08-01-2009, 07:52 PM
amzone, I am no expert either, but I do know that Panasonic is rather late to the game. But since they are the biggest, as you stated, its about time! Seriously, once the tech finds its way into every set, commonplace 3D in the home becomes a real possibility! Good move Panasonic!

Still, Panasonic has yet to release the actual 3D set to the market, unlike Mitsubishi and Samsung. Both have had 3D-ready DLP RPTV HDTVs on the market since 2007! The only thing new about what Panasonic is (or will be) doing, is that they are doing it with Plasma. Big whoop! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif People have been saying for quite a while, that Plasma will be dead in a few yrs, so I'm actually rather surprized that they stuck with that tech. (It looks like it actually might be DLP RPTVs that bite the dust soon, since Samsung pulled them. DLP always HAS been the easiest way to implement 3D in HDTV sets.)

In Panasonic's defense, since DLP tech has begun to drop off, (likely due to bulkiness of the sets) it looks like Plasma may take over that role and become the preferred 3D format, with such srong Panasonic (Matsush!ta) support. I know that LCD technology is inherently slow with certain pixels keeping up with motion, so maybe Panasonic chose Plasma specifically because they believed in 3D being the future, and Plasma being better for 3D. That would take some guts, if it is the case, because it would mean that they are putting 3D first.

08-03-2009, 02:12 PM
First off, I would like to clarify that Avatar: The Game is designed to be an awesome action game any way you choose to play it (on a traditional or 3D-enabled TV). The team has always held superior gameplay as the top priority, and even want to avoid the game being pegged as a “3D GAME”, in order for everyone to know that it will be fun and engaging regardless of the technology you have in your living room.

That said, we know that 3D is a tantalizing feature and so I would like to expand a bit on how that will work. So far, there are quite a few televisions currently on the market that are compatible with the 3D technology employed in the next-gen version of the game. Several televisions using currently available (and new) technology will be able to display Avatar: The Game in 3D. Currently, an HDMI connection is needed primarily because it has been chosen as the standard input for 3D-enabled TVs. The list of compatible technology continues to grow, and will become available much closer to launch.

It’s important to note that, similar to other premium features like Dolby 5.1 or 7.1 surround sound, the 3D technology used in Avatar: The Game is on the forefront of consumer electronics technology, so we know that not everyone is going to be able to take advantage of this added feature to the game… that’s why we are working so hard to ensure that the game will be a true AAA title on all platforms and on all TVs.

08-03-2009, 05:42 PM
Gabe, when you say "Currently, an HDMI connection is needed primarily because it has been chosen as the standard input for 3D-enabled TVs.", to me that sounds like it is Microsoft's choice to stick with HDMI, in their 3D spec. Am I right, or was this UbiSoft's choice?

You see, its not the problem of 3D HDTVs not having HDMI, its that the first year or 2 of Xbox 360s DONT HAVE HDMI.

08-10-2009, 12:21 PM
Believe me, I understand where you are coming from with this Gordo-San as I too have a launch 360 with composite cables.

As I stated, we are looking into this, but I do not have anything to report just yet. Hopefully, I'll have some news on this very soon!

08-12-2009, 11:21 PM
Thanks for the update, Gabe.

I understand that these things are not always cut-and-dry. In my book, you guys at Ubi are pioneers for the burden doing this stuff first. That is quite a feat, considering that you are expected to also make a great game in the process. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I am one of those who expect some kinks along the way. Its just that my disappointment with something like leaving early adopters out, will be echoed with much more ferocity through the internet, by lesser-understanding folk.

Anyway, I gage that the reception on gaming in S3D seems to be mixed right now with gamers, with either people appreciating what Ubi is trying to do here, and the other not wanting or understanding S3D gaming at all. Hopefully most of that second group turns around, once thy experience it.... if it really does deliver, that is.

08-19-2009, 06:46 AM
Wow! thats just ruined my day

When is an official announcement going to be made about this.

Because come the end of the year, when avatar hype is everywhere and your getting the toys in your happy meal, there's going to be alot of unhappy people wanting to know why they can't play the game in 3d, after watching the film in 3d.

08-19-2009, 06:55 AM
i dont want to buy another xbox, i don't want to buy another tv, i don't want to buy 3d glasses (they should come with the game)

I want to play avatar in 3d with what i got! an old xbox with a 1080i component tv.

This is what the masses (and me) will be saying

What if there's a petition and a million unhappy consumers sign it

I would start it if i wasn't so lazy

08-21-2009, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by MIngton2009:
i dont want to buy another xbox, i don't want to buy another tv, i don't want to buy 3d glasses (they should come with the game)

I want to play avatar in 3d with what i got! an old xbox with a 1080i component tv.

This is what the masses (and me) will be saying

What if there's a petition and a million unhappy consumers sign it

I would start it if i wasn't so lazy
What the heck are you talking about? I understand the part about not supporting component, but that is where my understanding of your complaint ends. You want what you get in theaters? Well the theaters paid a lot of money for that tech. Why do you think that more theaters don't support 3D? Just what would you petition exactly? To see 3D like you do in the theater, you would need a new HDTV and have to buy 3D glasses. How else did you think you would get that kind of 3d? You want red and blue anaglyph glasses? That isn't the kind of 3D you get in the theater. Frankly I think that would flat out suck for gaming. Also, many people would try that and say it sucks without even knowing that new technology is out there that is WAY better. Good luck getting people to petition for red/blue glasses, if thats what you want. Careful what you wish for, though.

Look, they didn't have to put 3D in the game. Only a few will enjoy it, but somebody has to go first. Think about it this way, as more of this tech filters into consumers' livingrooms, at least they can go back and find this game, as it will have been supported from day 1. Nobody is getting gypped. They are putting in something a little extra.

That said, I hope they sent the signal over HDMI AND Component. I mean, MSFT does 1080p gaming over component, so why not 120Hz? What are they worried about?

08-21-2009, 04:31 PM
Okay, so it looks like we have an answer, and it is that the 3D functionality will be reliant on HDMI. Now, that is not because of the game by any means, it is a limitation of 3D TVs and their ability to interact with video sources. What it comes down to is basically hardware compatibility, and while we searched extensively for other methods and workarounds, HDMI is the format that 3D televisions will work with. Were it simply a question of piping the game through composite cables, there is no question that we would do that, but composite is incompatible with the 3D television architecture.

But I still have to say (and if you've seen the trailer released today, I think you'll agree) the game looks fantastic in any viewing environment... even a tiny window on your computer screen!

08-22-2009, 11:53 AM
Thanks for the explanation Gabe. I guess maybe the processing in (most?) 3D HDTVs only comes from the HDMI pipeline. I can live with this answer. It has been feeling like component has been on the way out for a while now, as they treat it like a stepchild, even though it can pass the 1080p HDTV signal just fine, and I'm sure 120Hz as well. Maybe they would need a powerful (expensive) DAC just to keep up with the framerate. Where as with HDMI, it stays digital, so no need to convert. This 3D stuff is all so new, and I haven't seen much explained on the internet. just the basics.

Anyway it was kind of foolish for MSFT to not include HDMI in the 360 spec from the beginning. That has always been the real problem anyway. BIG mistake Microsoft! You always hear people go on about early adopters getting screwed. This is one of the few cases that I agree with that statement. HDMI could have easily been in there from the beginning, as well as it should have.

08-24-2009, 03:47 AM
Hi guys,

here is one question that i have:
will avatar x360 work in 3d with the SyncMaster 2233RZ, this is the 120hz monitor that supports the nvidia 3d vision.

or will we need a 'real' tv?

08-24-2009, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by templarwiz:
Hi guys,

here is one question that i have:
will avatar x360 work in 3d with the SyncMaster 2233RZ, this is the 120hz monitor that supports the nvidia 3d vision.

or will we need a 'real' tv?
I am not qualified to answer that for you, but I did some investigating for you.

Reading a review for the 2233RZ I see:

Besides the high refresh rate, it is a noteworthy fact that the monitor is equipped with a dual-link DVI only. It does not have an analog input. The dual-link version of the interface is necessary to ensure the high refresh rate. At a resolution of 1680x1050 and a refresh rate of 120Hz the video data stream amounts to over 4.7Gbps whereas the peak bandwidth of the single-link DVI is somewhat lower than 4Gbps
..........A Dual-Link DVI-D cable is included with the monitor. If you have to purchase it separately, take note that you will not be able to get the 120Hz refresh rate from this monitor with a Single-Link cable.

I did a quick search for a Dual Link DVI to HDMI converter and got this:
http://sewelldirect.com/hdmi-t...link-cable-10-ft.asp (http://sewelldirect.com/hdmi-to-dvi-dual-link-cable-10-ft.asp)

Hope that helps, but I'm kind of learing about this stuff myself. The most knowelegable folks about this kind of technical stuff with regards to 3D seem to be at the mtbs3d.com (http://mtbs3d.com) forums. I would probably ask those guys. Maybe Gabe can chime in, after he finds out if monitors can be used with conversion. I know that MSFT is very slow with this kind of info regarding compatability. It took them forever to come out with a VGA adapter for the original Xbox and even longer to give screen size options that were monitor compatible.

09-11-2009, 09:13 AM
Hi folks! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Let me just another customer voice to the discussion. I am a middle-aged gamer and I am so excited for this game and the 3D technology. I've got 2 xbox consoles and one is the latest Elite that I use for DLNA access.

I am so ready to buy a new television and I want it to work with Avatar: The Game in 3D.

Can someone tell Ubisoft that I have $$ and I am only waiting on them to let us know what is GUARANTEED to play this awesomeness on our XBOX!?

$$ http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

09-11-2009, 09:39 AM
Consider us notified...

[goes off to buy stock in companies that produce high-end HDTVs]

09-11-2009, 09:46 AM
Seriously though, as soon as we have a compatibility list finalized, I will post it here!

09-11-2009, 09:52 AM
sw33t! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

09-11-2009, 09:54 AM
Gabe, when you spec the TV's I just may buy some of that stock too!

I've been waiting for 3D to make it for years. I've got a lot of film and digital consumer 3D gear just waiting for the day.

thanks Ubisoft!

09-22-2009, 06:47 PM
Hi gang!

Hoping someone can clear up something for me. A technology vendor is telling me that a PC is required to play Avatar: The Game in 3D on Xbox 360. This does not make a whole lot of sense to me as I am not sure how this would be setup technically. My understanding is that all that I will need to play the game in 3D on Xbox is:

1.) copy of the game
2.) compatible "3D Ready" HDTV
3.) compatible glasses
4.) Xbox 360 Elite console

Is this correct?

09-23-2009, 05:10 AM
Originally posted by gregrivera:
Hi gang!

Hoping someone can clear up something for me. A technology vendor is telling me that a PC is required to play Avatar: The Game in 3D on Xbox 360. This does not make a whole lot of sense to me as I am not sure how this would be setup technically. My understanding is that all that I will need to play the game in 3D on Xbox is:

1.) copy of the game
2.) compatible "3D Ready" HDTV
3.) compatible glasses
4.) Xbox 360 Elite console

Is this correct?

Hi gregrivera and welcome to the boards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As you've suspected I can confirm you do not need a PC as well as Xbox360 to play and view the game in 3D.

You will however require a screen that supports 3D.

Hope that clears any confusion

09-23-2009, 09:38 AM
Excellent, thank you for clarifying!

10-03-2009, 07:18 AM
ok I have been looking everywhere for this info, can't find the details anywhere. Ok the kind of tech used in theathers uses polirized glasses to make the image 3d crystal clear. I only know of one company that can do this currently for home use and is for pc only at the moment and it is iz3d they make special lcd monitors that really have two built in to one case to combine the image and well all you use are those polirized 3d glasess like you get at theater, I have heard of talks to make this monitors for consoles but its difficult because consoles only output one video signal, with pc is easy because you can have a video card with two dvi outputs and have two images coming out at once. ok the other type are like the nvidia 3d vision, the ones that use the shutter glasses, they receive an infrared signal from the emmitter and thus created the 3d image, you have to have a special type of 3d ready monitor or tv, I have a **** mitsubitshi DLP 3d ready and the nvidia 3d vision kit but I am still not sure that will work. James Cameron has partnered with panasonic because they are coming out with the worlds first 3d hd home theater tv that is 103" plasma. Plasma is the only technology capable of bringing a theater like experince in to the home because it has a faster refresh rate that can deliver true 1080p hd, I have seen the promo videos on youtube and panasonic 3d webpage, looks like the glasses they are using are some type of shutter glasses but I am still not 100% sure. I would like someone to clarify and if anybody knows what the right equipment is or would be required to experience the game in true stereoscopic 3d???

You know you would think they would list requirements like on pc games where it states the minimum and best system requirements, yes I guess is getting to the point where home consoles need and require additional equipment to have the best gaming experience out of certain games like AVATAR!

Also they need to put a list of TVs/monitors that are out in the market now that are currently compatible to be able to play avatar in 3D, and list any future models the know of that will be capable, and please clarify if is going to be sutter glasses or just plain simple polirized glasses.

10-03-2009, 07:28 AM

3D-Ready displays devices

Desktop Displays
Samsung® SyncMaster 2233RZ 120 Hz LCD display
ViewSonic® FuHzion™ VX2265wm 120 Hz LCD display
100 Hz and higher analog CRTs

Mitsubishi® 1080p DLP® Home Theater TV: WD-57833, WD-60735, WD-60737, WD-60C8, WD-60C9, WD-65735, WD-65736, WD-65737, WD-65C8, WD-65C9, WD-65833, WD-65835, WD-65837, WD-73735, WD-73736, WD-73737, WD-73833, WD-73835, WD-73837, WD-73C8, WD-73C9, WD-82737, WD-82837, L65-A90
Generic DLP HDTV mode

DepthQ® HD 3D Projector by LightSpeed Design, Inc.
DQ-3120 by LightSpeed Design, Inc.
ViewSonic PJD-6210-3D
ViewSonic PJD-6220-3D
ViewSonic PJD-PJD5351-3D
ViewSonic PJD-PJD5111-3D

10-05-2009, 07:33 AM
Hey JHKY, we are still getting our compatibility list together, so I can't confirm anything at the moment (and I have to admit that the technology involved here is fairly baffling to me, so I must defer to higher authorities, hehe).

10-05-2009, 08:30 AM
Gabe, I'm curious to know if the Ubisoft dev team knows whether the shuttered glasses will be synced by the xbox or by the display?

I had a set of 3D glasses for my PC for quite a while - worked great with Elite Force and Tron 2.0, not as great with Half-Life 2. Anyway, the nVidia graphics adaptor split the rendering into separate fields and then sent a sync signal to the shuttered glasses via PS2 port (lol for old tech).

The systems that is said to be used for Avatar seems similar, but it implies that the glasses will be synced from the stereo-capable television which would be cool for other playback devices, but uncool because it sounds like an expensive add-on for the television. Would be awesome if our existing xboxes could do the decoding and sync the glasses. Then the display would only need to be capable of very high refresh rates - like >120hz.


10-05-2009, 03:10 PM
This topic is actually very confusing, especially considering there isn't really a standard yet for 3D televisions and buying one today could have the possibility of it not being compatible with 3D when the standard is devised, reportedly sometime in 2010. I was on the verge of getting a new TV (120/240hz) then I found out that not only does the high refresh rate not mean anything as far as most 3D tech goes, the display has to actually be 3D-compatible with...well...something that doesn't even have a standard and can all use a different method possibly rendering some 3D TVs useless in the near future. The safest bet is the PC/nVidia Vision glasses with the officially compatible monitors (or CRT monitors!) Unfortunately, until I see what Ubisoft has to say about the displays and how exactly they are getting that to work with only "120hz TV and HDMI" (which sounds like part of the equation unless they have some trick up their sleeve!) then I will only be playing in 2D. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

10-06-2009, 11:17 AM
Chibi - do you know some indicators are that the game will be using Sensio tech?
http://www.reuters.com/article...-Jun-2009+MW20090602 (http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS140774+02-Jun-2009+MW20090602)

At this point all I can learn from Sensio is that they provide/require(?) a custom piece of hardware for multi-format output. But where that hardware lies in the dataflow seems to be open:
http://www.sensio.tv/en/techno...facturier/default.3d (http://www.sensio.tv/en/technologie_manufacturier/default.3d)

In some ways things look exciting for Sensio: http://www.engadgethd.com/2009...andard-by-dvd-forum/ (http://www.engadgethd.com/2009/01/29/sensio-3d-tagged-official-optional-3d-standard-by-dvd-forum/) but that engadget articles also has a pointer to the competition- Panasonic and isn't Panny the brand touring with the game right now?
http://www.engadgethd.com/2008...ard-on-blu-ray-disc/ (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/11/24/panasonic-puts-forth-proposal-for-3d-standard-on-blu-ray-disc/)

My best guess is that Ubisoft must wait for their hardware partner and maybe Microsoft to be ready to reveal a hardware option that they are not quite ready to disclose.

All I know is that I'm a big enough fan of James Cameron's work that, if the tech is good enough for James to approve for the game then that's the tech I'm going to buy. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

10-06-2009, 06:34 PM
I had heard of Sensio, but did not know Ubisoft had a deal with them. Thanks for the info!

I have a lot of faith in Cameron too, but I remain cautiously optimistic. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

10-28-2009, 10:38 AM
I wonder, if Gabe is still out there - maybe it would be worth it to create an Xbox specific version of this thread:
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...1049957/m/2981099177 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6391049957/m/2981099177)

The issues surrounding Xbox Stereo seem to be the most cloudy.