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HotelBushranger
06-02-2005, 07:01 AM
What's the difference between the two? Isn't VBS a more militarily structured sort of game, and more in depth? Including being used by the military?
Cheers

John_Stag
06-02-2005, 07:07 AM
VBS was specifically constructed for the US military for training purposes. Operation Flashpoint is kind of a "lightweight", though incompatable version of the same.

Never used VBS1, a bit too pricey, so I can't tell you more than that.

whiteladder
06-02-2005, 07:13 AM
My understanding was that BI have two games in development at the moment. The first is based on VBS, and is basically a refined OFP engine. Its designed to be backward compatible, so that all of the community design addons(vehicles and weapons) will port over.

The second is a completely new engine and is what most people would call "Operation Flashpoint2". Although it will probably never be called this because of the wrangles Bi are having with Codemasters over ownership of the copyright.

nakamura_kenji
06-02-2005, 10:20 AM
vbs1 training tool no campaign and only few missions + very expensive

ofp game lot of missions and addons and cheap ^_^

you may wish wait until end year of when allied assault come out which reworked version of operation flashpoint with upgraded engine and new content.

ofp2 or what ever will be call will be release posilbe next year

i work as 3d modeler for addon on team red hammer studios for flashpoint and find it wonderful many nice people in community

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/t-62A_.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/T-62MField_.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v492/nakamura_kenji/t-62Mfieldm1.jpg

i specialise in tanks ^_^

actionhank1786
06-02-2005, 10:36 AM
woah, you work for RHS?
I love your all's work, i just downloaded the Soldier pack you all released and i've had the tanks for some time. Good to know you play other good games as well http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

WB_Outlaw
06-02-2005, 11:09 AM
OFP is the most awesome kick-*** FPS ever created. As I have mentioned before, everything else is a big fat stinking pile compared to OFP. If you don't think it's the best, you are a obviously a complete lunatic and should be locked away forever and forced to play little weenie FPS games until your head explodes.

VBS is the engine stripped out of OFP and is designed to be used as a framework for developing and running training simulations for military and para-military/police forces and not as a game. While it is available to the public, it will require a LOT of mission development and scripting to make it useful and I don't think it has any campaign capabilities. At least, that's my understanding of VBS.


-Outlaw.

AerialTarget
06-02-2005, 02:07 PM
My only real problem with Operation Flashpoint is that the guns are far, far too accurate. This makes for instant kills, every time, and no firefights. The term "suppressive fire" is simply not in the Operation Flashpoint player's vocabulary.

NAFP_supah
06-02-2005, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
My only real problem with Operation Flashpoint is that the guns are far, far too accurate. This makes for instant kills, every time, and no firefights. The term "suppressive fire" is simply not in the Operation Flashpoint player's vocabulary.

The community created a High Dispersion version of JAM, which was an also community developed common ammunition standard to prevent uber guns. The Vietnam pack for instance uses this. The NAFP in my nick comes from the Nogovan Armed Forces Project, A team working to create a army for nogova, the default island from OFP:Resistance. A lot of PF players come from OFP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

GoToAway
06-02-2005, 03:24 PM
Wow... Representatives of RHS and NAFP on the Il-2 forum. It's a small world. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif



Originally posted by NAFP_supah:
The community created a High Dispersion version of JAM, which was an also community developed common ammunition standard to prevent uber guns. The Vietnam pack for instance uses this. The upcoming ECP release enables the greatly improved AI to lay down supressive fire... among many other things, some of which have not been publically announced yet. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

While I love the JAM initiative, I think this works better than JAM HD. JAM HD is about as good as it gets without throwing scripts into the mix, though.

HotelBushranger
06-03-2005, 01:26 AM
[quote[Wow... Representatives of RHS and NAFP on the Il-2 forum. It's a small world.[/quote]

Far out, it is! Didn't know there were other OFP players around here. However, I must admit I haven't played it in a year, being too obsessed with PF of course. RHS is awesome, I love the tanks you guys make.

My favourite opf site is
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?sekce=news

It has most news, that sites like opflash.org doesn't.

Thanks for the info guys

AerialTarget
06-03-2005, 01:33 AM
With the aiming as it is in the unmodified game, the game was just too easy. I consider myself the third best Operation Flashpoint player I have ever met online, going by kills and also kills to death. I do not feel that it is idle boasting, for I will make no claim of that sort for any other game! In flight simulators, I am an average player, where I wish I were one of the better ones.

While I think Brothers In Arms has much more realism in many areas, no game can touch Operation Flashpoint for the feeling of being there. The world! Even if the world were only as big as the area around you as far as you could see, it's still bigger than most games' maps. I love having to navigate with compass, map, and landmarks. Oddly, I don't enjoy the same in IL-2, although I force myself to do it instead of using icons.

Random dispersion is not the answer to the problem, though I'm sure it is an improvement over the default laser-like accuracy. I like Brothers In Arms' aiming system, although the sway needs to be toned down a bit and also the random factor lowered. Operation Flashpoint's whole aiming system is wrong; it's nothing like real shooting. They were, however, the first game I have ever seen that used iron sights.

NAFP_supah
06-03-2005, 01:51 AM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
With the aiming as it is in the unmodified game, the game was just too easy. I consider myself the third best Operation Flashpoint player I have ever met online, going by kills and also kills to death. I do not feel that it is idle boasting, for I will make no claim of that sort for any other game! In flight simulators, I am an average player, where I wish I were one of the better ones.

While I think Brothers In Arms has much more realism in many areas, no game can touch Operation Flashpoint for the feeling of being there. The world! Even if the world were only as big as the area around you as far as you could see, it's still bigger than most games' maps. I love having to navigate with compass, map, and landmarks. Oddly, I don't enjoy the same in IL-2, although I force myself to do it instead of using icons.

Random dispersion is not the answer to the problem, though I'm sure it is an improvement over the default laser-like accuracy. I like Brothers In Arms' aiming system, although the sway needs to be toned down a bit and also the random factor lowered. Operation Flashpoint's whole aiming system is wrong; it's nothing like real shooting. They were, however, the first game I have ever seen that used iron sights.

Strangely enough in real life guns are quite accurate too and getting shot is a major downer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I think OFP's shooting is a lot closer then say CS's spray and pray type of shooting http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

WTE_DuStA
06-03-2005, 02:14 AM
OFP was not derived from VBS1

VBS1 was after OFP .


If your in oz and interested in finding out more about VBS1 then click on the link in my sig and post . We have a healthy VBS1 unit

HotelBushranger
06-03-2005, 02:58 AM
That's why I started the thread Dusta, I saw VBS at your website and tried to remember what it was http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

GoToAway
06-03-2005, 04:56 AM
To clarify, it works like this:

BIS created OFP (which took nearly a decade all told.)

BIS opened a studio in Australia (Bohemia Interactive Australia.)

I believe that Coalescent approahed BIS about adapting OFP for a military/paramilitary training tool at this point.

BIA developed developed VBS1 for this market, which uses OFP's Poseidon engine as well as quite a bit of content from OFP.

BIS is currently developing Armed Assault, which is basically OFP 1.5. It brings the engine updates made for the Xbox version of OFP back home to the PC (and throws new things into the mix as well.) It will be backwards compatable with OFP content.

BIS also has another title in development slated for Q4 2006. It's basically "OFP 2," but it will probably not be called that since Codemasters owns the band name.


Hope that clears everything up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

NAFP_supah
06-03-2005, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by GoToAway:
To clarify, it works like this:

BIS created OFP (which took nearly a decade all told.)

BIS opened a studio in Australia (Bohemia Interactive Australia.)

I believe that Coalescent approahed BIS about adapting OFP for a military/paramilitary training tool at this point.

BIA developed developed VBS1 for this market, which uses OFP's Poseidon engine as well as quite a bit of content from OFP.

BIS is currently developing Armed Assault, which is basically OFP 1.5. It brings the engine updates made for the Xbox version of OFP back home to the PC (and throws new things into the mix as well.) It will be backwards compatable with OFP content.

BIS also has another title in development slated for Q4 2006. It's basically "OFP 2," but it will probably not be called that since Codemasters owns the band name.


Hope that clears everything up. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Nice summary of the present situation, nicely done http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Aeronautico
06-03-2005, 10:51 AM
IL-2 and OFP, the very best in two simulated worlds...

Akwar
06-03-2005, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
OFP is the most awesome kick-*** FPS ever created. As I have mentioned before, everything else is a big fat stinking pile compared to OFP. If you don't think it's the best, you are a obviously a complete lunatic and should be locked away forever and forced to play little weenie FPS games until your head explodes.

VBS is the engine stripped out of OFP and is designed to be used as a framework for developing and running training simulations for military and para-military/police forces and not as a game. While it is available to the public, it will require a LOT of mission development and scripting to make it useful and I don't think it has any campaign capabilities. At least, that's my understanding of VBS.


-Outlaw.

To call OFP an FPS is quite an insult,


Its the best Infantry combat SIMULATION ever devised.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Its not perfect but what other program can offer you everything OFP can?NONE
I tell you OFP2 has a lot to live up to.The modding community took basic OFP off the shelves,added tons of new features and turned it into somthing that really shines.

actionhank1786
06-03-2005, 12:45 PM
Originally posted by Akwar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
OFP is the most awesome kick-*** FPS ever created. As I have mentioned before, everything else is a big fat stinking pile compared to OFP. If you don't think it's the best, you are a obviously a complete lunatic and should be locked away forever and forced to play little weenie FPS games until your head explodes.

VBS is the engine stripped out of OFP and is designed to be used as a framework for developing and running training simulations for military and para-military/police forces and not as a game. While it is available to the public, it will require a LOT of mission development and scripting to make it useful and I don't think it has any campaign capabilities. At least, that's my understanding of VBS.


-Outlaw.

To call OFP an FPS is quite an insult,


Its the best Infantry combat SIMULATION ever devised.http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gifIts not perfect but what other program can offer you everything OFP can?NONE
I tell you OFP2 has a lot to live up to.The modding community took basic OFP off the shelves,added tons of new features and turned into somthing that really shines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Without the mods, i've gotta be honest, i wouldn't like OFP very much.
It's a fun game, but half the joy is getting new units to replace those god awful looking defualt ones...remember the Night Ops guys, they looked like Frogmen with guns http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Chuck_Older
06-03-2005, 01:28 PM
"Guns are accurate, and getting shot is a major downer "

Now that's funny

AerialTarget
06-03-2005, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by NAFP_supah:
Strangely enough in real life guns are quite accurate too and getting shot is a major downer I think OFP's shooting is a lot closer then say CS's spray and pray type of shooting

Oh, it's by far better than Counterstrike's shooting! But of all the games that try to be realistic - Operation Flashpoint, Brothers In Arms, America's Army, Hidden and Dangerous, Call of Duty (all of which borrowed many things from Operation Flashpoint), Operation Flashpoint is not near the top for realistic aiming. Brothers In Arms gets the prize in my eyes, with America's Army coming second. The problem is that both of them make it too hard to aim, whereas Operation Flashpoint makes it too easy.

My real life accuracy is about twenty shots out of thirty on a twelve inch target at fifty yards with a two two three. In Operation Flashpoint, I can get all of my rounds within a two feet at half a mile. That's just wrong. Yes, guns are accurate, but much depends on the people behind them. Operation Flashpoint just doesn't do a good job simulating the difficulties a shooter has to deal with.

Aaron_GT
06-03-2005, 03:33 PM
The big problem with OFP (and H&D, etc) is the lack of peripheral vision. I've only done WW2 reenactment, but the lack of peripheral vision or even just a quick flick of the eyes to left or right makes situational awareness an issue. For the home market we'll need to wait for full head tracking, VR head sets, and eye tracking. For military training set ups they can probably afford those things already.

AerialTarget
06-03-2005, 10:17 PM
I'm actually quite skilled in keeping my eyes out. You have the ability in the game to move your head separately from your body, although it is too slow. And then there is the habit of running in one direction, looking ninety degrees to one side while switching to sidestep, and so on. While this is less useful in Operation Flashpoint than in other shooters, due to the aforementioned ability to move your head in the game and also because in Operation Flashpoint sidestepping is slower than running forward, it still has its uses for when you need your gun pointing at where you are looking.

Akwar
06-03-2005, 11:15 PM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
Oh, it's by far better than Counterstrike's shooting! But of all the games that try to be realistic - Operation Flashpoint, Brothers In Arms, America's Army, Hidden and Dangerous, Call of Duty (all of which borrowed many things from Operation Flashpoint), Operation Flashpoint is not near the top for realistic aiming. Brothers In Arms gets the prize in my eyes, with America's Army coming second. The problem is that both of them make it too hard to aim, whereas Operation Flashpoint makes it too easy.


Brothers in arms you say?

LMAO how can that be when your soldier in that game shoots like a blind recruit?Cant hit **** in that with any weapon,guns dont shoot anywhere near point of aim and I remember clearly that the m1 garrand shot way too high and left at any range.The thompson was even worse in BIA,at 20-30 yards you had to aim well above a targets head to get any sort of hits.I just cant stand scripted boxed in envirements ethier.Graphics were nice but graphics dont mean squat when the program is garbage.The weapon accuracy in Brothers in arms was just downright soup sandwhich.That was a waste of my money,after a few levels I shelved it

GAU-8
06-04-2005, 12:50 AM
OFP PLAYERS!?

cant wait! for the past 4 or 5 years ive had this, i NEVER been online with it yet.. map maker so damm good!


maybe some of us can get together this weekend on TS????

polkku
06-04-2005, 01:14 AM
For all OFP players. Here's a MOD which greatly increases the realism of the game, brings well modelled mortars, new maps and tons of other stuff.
The mod is about Finnish Defence Forces and it's a TOTAL conversion modification.

FDF homepage here (http://koti.mbnet.fi/~fdfmod/)
It's FREE and some WW2 stuff is coming soon.

Crashing through tank obstacles and barbwire, KV-1 and infantry belonging to the Soviet 21st Army slam against the Finnish 3rd Division holding the Vammelsuu-Taipale line in the Karelian Isthmus. Shocked by the ferocity of Soviet offensive that started on June 9 1944 the main defensive line was pulverized by massed Soviet artillery and Finns fell back to VT line. But the line was not to last long and Finns were forced to retreat yet again towards Vyborg.
http://koti.mbnet.fi/~fdfmod/newspics/expansion2_2.jpg

Supported by a Sturmgeschutz 40 G and equipped with a Panzerschreck, Finnish infantry is prepared for the inevitable Soviet assault in June 1944 after years spent in trench warfare. http://koti.mbnet.fi/~fdfmod/newspics/expansion2.jpg

Soviet DB-3 medium bombers surprise Finnish Air Force (FAF) airfield pants down as a Hurricane fighter is about to land and Fokker D.XXIs are being serviced in their log-reinforced hangars. Ground crew scrambles for shelter before deadly rain of bombs falls down. http://koti.mbnet.fi/~fdfmod/newspics/airfield2.jpg

Soviet supplies and weapons litter the battlefield along with bodies and horse carcasses in Porlammi pocket, south of Viipuri in September 1941. Men of Finnish 4th division scavenge useful enemy equipment, among them useful 122mm howitzers.http://koti.mbnet.fi/~fdfmod/newspics/haupitsi2.jpg

NAFP_supah
06-04-2005, 02:53 AM
Note that the WW2 FDF isnt out yet. FDF has some pretty cool ppl in it and good quality addons, in their more current day releases. Its one of the best large mods for OFP, CSLA which focusses on the czech army is great too and anything by BAS (Ballistic Addon Studios) is always worth downloading if you like modern US special forces equipment and troops http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Akwar
06-04-2005, 02:53 AM
Ive had and followed FDF since its beginnings,

One of the best for sure.Cant wait for the WW2 expansions like shown above.Lots of great talent out there for sure.

Lets not forget the great people at Ballistic Addon Studios who brought us many great units and new features as well.Also cant forget COC.Theres just too many to list.

xenios
06-04-2005, 10:54 AM
I'm not surprised to see so many OFP players posting here; it was another IL2 player who got me into Flashpoint years ago. Until a dedicated sim player convinced me that OFP was worth trying, I never would have wasted my time on a FPS.

To make matters even more confusing, Codemasters is supposed to make a game called Operation Flashpoint 2, which will presumably have nothing in common with BIS's yet unnamed game, which will be the 'real' OFP 2.

I've never heard of a game with so many mods, but unfortunately so few quality missions in which to play those mods. The FDF mod had done the best job at both, and maybe the WWII mod will someday too. Some of the mods have attempted to address OFP limitations, but I hope BIS's OFP 1.5 or 2 finally solves my list of gripes:

1. The abiltiy to lean.
2. The abiltiy to climb over obstacles.
3. Improved AI which will respond to suppressive fire by keeping thier heads down.
4. Less flat terrain which has more holes, depressions and ridges. Currently terrain only has large features; shellholes, foxholes, small drainage ditches, etc. are not possible.
5. Partially destructable terrain and objects.
6. Better physics for vehicles and objects such as grenades.
7. More complex damage and armor models.
8. Carrying heavy loads of equipment should effect running speed and endurance.
9. Body armor.
10. Streamlined squad command system, as in FSW or BIA--but still retaining access to more detailed commands, such as "Two, pick up machine gun 12 o'clock."
11. Better overall AI: By default, AIs can hit as well as snipers at long range; AIs make suicidal frontal assaults and rarely flank; AIs need to have a programmed fear of getting hit.
12. Personal peeve: There should be a 'Don't fire until fired upon' command. With the current 'Hold fire' command, AIs will wait helplessly until you give them permission to fire, even when they are under attack.
13. The problem with personal accuracy is that you only begin heavy breathing after a sprint; you can jog indefinitely and it will never effect accuracy. Try jogging in real life with 75 pounds of equipment and then see if you can hit with Zen accuracy. This combined with smarter AIs using cover more often in more complex terrain would solve the easy accuracy problem.

AerialTarget
06-04-2005, 02:19 PM
The aiming needs to be made so that aiming while crouching is as difficult as aiming is currently while breathing hard or wounded. The artificial intelligence needs to be made less accurate as well. That would really help Operation Flashpoint.

Aaron_GT
06-04-2005, 03:03 PM
That would be a good set of improvements, xenios. An SDK to ease the creation of WW2 mods would be good too. Does OFP support track ir (I don't have OFP any more). Lean with vector extension support would be good.

AerialTarget
06-04-2005, 06:54 PM
I actually would be interested in joining a group of Operation Flashpoint players here. Unfortunately, I do not have Resistance and never will. I feel very strongly that Resistance introduced more problems than it fixed.

In addition, I use a sound modification that makes weapon sounds more realistic. This causes the "modified files" message to occur, giving the impression that I am cheating.

NAFP_supah
06-04-2005, 07:37 PM
4. Less flat terrain which has more holes, depressions and ridges. Currently terrain only has large features; shellholes, foxholes, small drainage ditches, etc. are not possible. Buy OFP:resistance and max out the terrain detail and you get this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif


. Unfortunately, I do not have Resistance and never will. I feel very strongly that Resistance introduced more problems than it fixed.
Your mistake http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif There have been patches and it adds to the game in a major way. Most nice addons are for OFP:R so if you dont want to buy it you can forget MP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Jex_TG
06-06-2005, 10:29 AM
There is no difference apart from the graphics which are improved (though with mods you can get the same). The game runs the same scripts, the same engine. Whilst many would argue it is different, the only difference is the huge price tag.

We looked in depth into getting VBS1 and found it to be pointless. As far as I can tell, BI have made a 'military' version that is used by some security forces. For that reason, they have to charge a 'corporate price' and can get away with hundreds of dollars for the same thing.

On a side note, the USMC approached us to do some training with them, but they were using OFP - NOT VBS.

They're the same thing. Don't let the graphics lure you. And anyway - OFP 1.5 (allied assault?) is comming out soon, and OFP 2 and BI's ofp 2 variant (Codemasters are making ofp2, BI are making ofp 2 under a different name) - these are next year - confused? Yeah me too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Jex_TG
06-06-2005, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by xenios:
I'm not surprised to see so many OFP players posting here; it was another IL2 player who got me into Flashpoint years ago. Until a dedicated sim player convinced me that OFP was worth trying, I never would have wasted my time on a FPS.

To make matters even more confusing, Codemasters is supposed to make a game called Operation Flashpoint 2, which will presumably have nothing in common with BIS's yet unnamed game, which will be the 'real' OFP 2.

I've never heard of a game with so many mods, but unfortunately so few quality missions in which to play those mods. The FDF mod had done the best job at both, and maybe the WWII mod will someday too. Some of the mods have attempted to address OFP limitations, but I hope BIS's OFP 1.5 or 2 finally solves my list of gripes:

1. The abiltiy to lean.


There's a mod out for this http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikon...T;f=4;t=45906;st=210 (http://www.flashpoint1985.com/cgi-bin/ikonboard311/ikonboard.cgi?s=dcdb8a6ee4340c0c3b4aa35fdff57e6b;a ct=ST;f=4;t=45906;st=210)

Check the link at the bottom of the page for v.54 i think. We triefd this and it works fin in single player. We had probs on MP (it crashes our server) but other people have got it working MP.

WB_Outlaw
06-06-2005, 03:59 PM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
My real life accuracy is about twenty shots out of thirty on a twelve inch target at fifty yards with a two two three. In Operation Flashpoint, I can get all of my rounds within a two feet at half a mile. That's just wrong. Yes, guns are accurate, but much depends on the people behind them. Operation Flashpoint just doesn't do a good job simulating the difficulties a shooter has to deal with.

No offense AT, but you can't shoot worth a **** so judging OFP against your real world performance is NOT a fair shake. Last I heard, battlesight zero is 200 yards for the M-16. If you can't even make a 12 inch shot group at fifty yards, you need more practice.

OFP could use just a bit more shake in the standing position and maybe a tweak in the kneeling.

-Outlaw.

HotelBushranger
06-06-2005, 10:55 PM
Check this out, some brilliant WW2 mods:
http://ofp.gamezone.cz/index.php?sekce=news

And yeah I have FDF Mod, and can say it is the best one around here. The WW2 part looks even better http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

AerialTarget
06-06-2005, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
No offense AT, but you can't shoot worth a **** so judging OFP against your real world performance is NOT a fair shake. Last I heard, battlesight zero is 200 yards for the M-16. If you can't even make a 12 inch shot group at fifty yards, you need more practice.

None taken; I admit I'm not very good. However, if my accuracy is that bad in real life, I should be just as bad in the game. If a game's aiming system is truly realistic, everyone should have in the game roughly the accuracy they have in real life. With Operation Flashpoint, aiming is simply too easy. If they added a skill element, such as learning to deal with more shake as you suggest and I agree with, then it would be a bit more like real life shooting.

Jex_TG
06-07-2005, 03:58 AM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WB_Outlaw:
No offense AT, but you can't shoot worth a **** so judging OFP against your real world performance is NOT a fair shake. Last I heard, battlesight zero is 200 yards for the M-16. If you can't even make a 12 inch shot group at fifty yards, you need more practice.

None taken; I admit I'm not very good. However, if my accuracy is that bad in real life, I should be just as bad in the game. If a game's aiming system is truly realistic, everyone should have in the game roughly the accuracy they have in real life. With Operation Flashpoint, aiming is simply too easy. If they added a skill element, such as learning to deal with more shake as you suggest and I agree with, then it would be a bit more like real life shooting. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is getting silly. How would you implement a 'leaning system'? There is no way you are going to simulate firing a real rifle and why should your online skill be the same as your offline skill? You online character is a representation of a trained fighter. Typically that trained fighter should be able to get 5 shots in a 2-inch grouping at 50 yards.

Going on from your ultra-realistic sense, you should leave shooters alone since you are obviously not qualified to play them. This would represent your real life disadvantage as you wouldn't be allowed into the army. Of course, you could always play blindfolded http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

AerialTarget
06-07-2005, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by Jex_TG:
How would you implement a 'leaning system'? There is no way you are going to simulate firing a real rifle [...] Typically that trained fighter should be able to get 5 shots in a 2-inch grouping at 50 yards.

I said nothing of leaning. Shaking, however, is something you have to deal with in real life. Having to deal with it in the game, as in Brothers In Arms, America's Army, and in Operation Flashpoint when you are breathing hard or wounded, is much more realistic than having unrealistic pinpoint accuracy.

Another thing that you have to deal with in real life, unless using a scope, is lining up the sights. In all games, the sights are always lined up for you already. Many games have a random dispersion to attempt to simulate human error in lining up the sights, but this is the wrong answer to the problem! I'm not sure how game developers should go about simulating lining up the sights, since we only have one mouse, but at least they should implement the shaking.

There are good shooters in the military, and there are bad shooters in the military. I think that you would be surprised at the accuracy of the average soldier; they don't get as much shooting practice as people think. By the way, I don't know anyone, ex-military or not, who can get two inch groupings at fifty yards, unless they are using a scope. And even I get do that with a scope!

polkku
06-08-2005, 02:24 AM
Unable to get a 2 inch group from 50 yards, hmm. You must be shooting from standing position or using a pistol. In military you don't usually shoot while standing (or maybe in urban warfare). Where I come from, the assault rifle shooting practices are done in prone position from 150m. That is close to 150 yards. And last time I was shooting (after 7 years of no shooting) I had 2 tries with 3 rounds to get the sights OK. Both nice tight groups of 2 inches. Then we shot 10 rounds, I unintentionally changed position a bit after 5 rounds, so I got 2 equally nice groups of some 3 inches http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif. There was no scope, just a plain assault rifle.

That result was only slightly above average.

Jex_TG
06-08-2005, 03:26 AM
Originally posted by AerialTarget:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jex_TG:
How would you implement a 'leaning system'? There is no way you are going to simulate firing a real rifle [...] Typically that trained fighter should be able to get 5 shots in a 2-inch grouping at 50 yards.

I said nothing of leaning. Shaking, however, is something you have to deal with in real life. Having to deal with it in the game, as in Brothers In Arms, America's Army, and in Operation Flashpoint when you are breathing hard or wounded, is much more realistic than having unrealistic pinpoint accuracy.

Another thing that you have to deal with in real life, unless using a scope, is lining up the sights. In all games, the sights are always lined up for you already. Many games have a random dispersion to attempt to simulate human error in lining up the sights, but this is the wrong answer to the problem! I'm not sure how game developers should go about simulating lining up the sights, since we only have one mouse, but at least they should implement the shaking.

There are good shooters in the military, and there are bad shooters in the military. I think that you would be surprised at the accuracy of the average soldier; they don't get as much shooting practice as people think. By the way, I don't know anyone, ex-military or not, who can get two inch groupings at fifty yards, unless they are using a scope. And even I get do that with a scope! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry read "learning" for leaning but I agree with you about bad shooters. Joint Operations by NoLogoc has this random bullet spread implemented. However, in OFP when I've been running and am breathing hard, my sights are all over the shop.

As for lining up (zeroing) sights, you only do it once - well in the army (british) anyway. That rifle is then 'yours'. When you train you do so with iron sights and the 2-inch grouping is desired - most are pretty close with training. The Ghurka's however get a 2-inch grouping the very first time they fire a rifle (having never fired before). They are able to do this because they can follow instruction to the smallest detail. Obviously though 50 yards isn't very far in combat distances and in the army, as with ofp, on the battle field, engagement distances can be hundreds of yards. Now I would agree that accuracy seems to be pretty good but then again this is a game designed for entertainment. If people cannot hit the target, it isn't much fun. Saying that though OFP is completely modable, and there are realism mods out there you can download.

As for resistance, I would say grab it (you could always have 2 installs of ofp). It may be needed if you wish to play with others but nowadays, there are so many mods out there for it that it has become ridiculous.

Go find a mission on the net to download and you'll find you need to download a mod. Some missions have multiple mods (one had 8 to DL!). Once you have all the mods though you may find the mission completely ****, and my god are there some absolutely useless missions out there (no briefing, no map markers, no objectives, etc). It's a nightmare to try and get good missions, especially when you also have a community to think about (meaning they will need to also DL all the mods required).

However help is at hand, and if you don't already have it, grab ofpwatch. This little tool allows you to DL the mods directly off the server (as long as it had been configured) and is a great tool for activating mods, and joining games.

Grab it here... http://www.binarybone.com/ofpwatch/ http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif