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View Full Version : "Fake Skins"? Your thoughts?



XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:23 PM
I was d/ling some stuff from http://www.il2skins.com and noticed a "fake" skin.

http://www.il2skins.com/skins/screenshots/3708.jpg


Um, does anyone think this skin is a bunch of krap, like I do? Do you know people that use this type of cheat? I am not crazy about non-historical skins, but this is just plain arcade stuff.

Your thoughts?

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:23 PM
I was d/ling some stuff from http://www.il2skins.com and noticed a "fake" skin.

http://www.il2skins.com/skins/screenshots/3708.jpg


Um, does anyone think this skin is a bunch of krap, like I do? Do you know people that use this type of cheat? I am not crazy about non-historical skins, but this is just plain arcade stuff.

Your thoughts?

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:27 PM
OMG, I had no idea you could do that. This better be fixed in the patch.

But seriously, thats a good idea. Sometimes I look up at CF-18s and wonder why they are flying upside down.

<div align=center>http://www.members.shaw.ca/fennec/plane.jpg </div><font size=-9>

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:40 PM
I've been flying without icons too long.

It took me a second to figure it out, I was looking at it and thinking "what is that black spot under the wings supposed to be?"

I hope this skin gets adopted widely by 109 drivers. It will show up nicely against the ground, making it easier to track them.

It's useful (if it works at all) for about a nano-second - that is to say until the aircraft turns.

There are much more effective skins that use different hues of green and gray....

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:41 PM
hehe,

I thought about using a screen capture of the ground to paint a TB-3 and then painting four yaks on the wings. That should scare away just about anyone.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:41 PM
The scheme was modelled on modern aircraft to give an edge and as a "skinner" with over 5000 downloads on il2skins alone i would just like to say

A. what is wrong with doing that, after all it is designed to give you an edge and is no more cheating than using a camoflague skin to hide yourself at low level.

B Have you done any skins and posted them?

C It is not a 5 minute job to create a skin especially with the errors and mapping issues involved on the templates and my hat goes off to him, to dismiss someones skinning as "Krap is in my opinion not only unfair to the artist but also imature.

Finally the skins available on IL2 skins are not only free but have been done by the skinners often at their own expense and the software is not cheap and also in their own free time for the enjoyment of others... If you do not like a skin then feel free, do not download it but go on to find one you do like, but to rubbish someone like this i find quite incomprehensible..... not happy with free items then go buy an add on and allow those that appreciate the efforts put in to enjoy peoples work.





Message Edited on 07/28/0305:54PM by Taylortony

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:50 PM
I give the Artist of that skin a lot of credit for originality. I think that is a pretty cool idea, regardless of it's usefulness in combat.

"Yellow-nosed b@st@rds, 6 o'clock high, coming down now!"

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 06:56 PM
Amen Brother Taylortony,

And if non historical skins just tick you off to the point were you can't think straight. Then just go to setup, click off download skins, and you can live forever in the historicaly accurate bliss of the default ones that came with the game.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:02 PM
I have never seen this skin online.

Then again, I never turn the skindownload on so I always see stock skins and have less lag.

If you are in a server with the skin download on then odds are you are just screwing around anyway and not serious about the dogfight. So if you see this skin it should be pretty funny.

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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:08 PM
I don't consider this cheating, but isn't it great to play a game were stuff like this is the best cheaters can do!



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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:14 PM
I think there's nothing wrong with this. If someone wants to fly a bright purple skin or the one above or one with their favourite football team logo it's fine by me. People who bought the game have paid for the right to enjoy it as they wish. People who spend time skinning and making it publicly available doubly so. It's not my preferred skin but that doesn't mean I'll criticise others for it. At least the skin maker is contributing and had a good idea.

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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:17 PM
you a politician Ian?

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:19 PM
Calm down Hedus,

This is not 'krap' or a cheat or arcade(ish). It's an imaginary extension of the game that enriches our experience. Modern US aircraft DO use this idea. Congratulate the guy for a good skin. I looked at is closely, it's a good job.


Hawk



I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. J. Ripper

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:25 PM
Clay.Pigeon wrote:
-
- hehe,
-
- I thought about using a screen capture of the ground
- to paint a TB-3 and then painting four yaks on the
- wings. That should scare away just about anyone.
-
-

Good Idea yaks hehe...


Im with the guy up top, if he wants to fly his blue skin thats fine but when he makes it down low hes gona be standing out like neon

I actualy downloded one of these for a dora just to get a look @ it, IMO Looks like Junk & worthless as well.

I love many styles of Skins some flashey some racing some Historic I have certain favs tho & there closer to historic than Flashey or Racy the sports ones are cool too !!!

Altho @ this point I do not have skin dl on because of the lag issues so all ac look like default FB skins too me wich is a Plus & a Minus.

On the plus side I can recognize many ac icons or not first by shape & then by color wich iin many ways is an advantage

On the minus side I cant see all the great artwork thats out there some not so great http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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Message Edited on 07/28/0312:30PM by Locust_161st

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:28 PM
I have no comment specific to IL2, but many USAF planes do have cockpit markings on their underbelly. The A-10 does in particular. (LO-MAC does have it in their skins, which I was impressed with).

Murdock
SimCorner
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Message Edited on 07/28/0306:29PM by MurdockSC

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:31 PM
Taylortony, lets answer your questions first.

Yes, I did a historical FW190 skin for Il-2. I have made skins for WBIII and strike fighters both.

NO, it IS NOT the same as making a camo skin and hiding yourself. Camo was/is historical, and used the terrain and/or sky of the theatre of operations.

I don't give a flying rats asss about how long it takes to make a skin. You make a skin that "games the game", then you are bush league at best. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY to respect the guy who uses this skin. The whine about how much money and time it takes makes it a respectable skin is a complete KRAP arguement, also. I don't care if it's free. Using this skin is gaming the game. I keep my online skin option on so I can see others paint jobs after an online session, as there are some great skins out there, and you tend to spot people you know.

Non historical skins don't "tick" me off. I just enjoy skins that fit what the game is about. I would rather have the guys with the flames on their planes than the "fake cockpit skin".

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:38 PM
BTW, I know that some modern jets use this scheme. Seen that F-18 that had it. You wanna make that skin for Janes F/A-18, by all means, more power to ya.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:42 PM
There are over 3500 skins at il2skins.com, hope you're not going to start a new thread for every of them you don't like /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:46 PM
Sigh... I feel sorry for you having such a big chip on your shoulder, Its a Game, thats all a Game, nothing more nothing less, you seem to have lost the plot over that with all this historical blurb.

just enjoy skins that fit what the game is about. I would rather have the guys with the flames on their planes than the "fake cockpit skin". That is your opinion not others.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:47 PM
I love seeing/using special and/or personalized skins. I just hope the new netcode will allow their use online without the telltale lag that accompanies it.

Personalized craft were a part of the war. I'd like to make so in our virtual one too!



http://home.earthlink.net/~aclzkim1/_uimages/p47atm.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 07:58 PM
My thought are this has been over-thought.

Whats the BFD. Just another skin, just turn the skin dl off like rbj said. Problem solved and you dont have to insult anyones work.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:28 PM
RayBanJockey wrote:
-
- If you are in a server with the skin download on
- then odds are you are just screwing around anyway
- and not serious about the dogfight.

RBJ, you overlook a major aspect of IL2/FB IMO. Historical immersion (including accurate historical skins) and being part of a squad in radio contact during combat is something many of us enjoy. I firmly believe that using rotte tactics increases your combat effectiveness by a pretty good margin. There is a saying: "A leader without his wingman operates at less than 1/2 strength". You are way off base on your comment about "screwing around". Because someone uses custom skins doesn't mean he is not serious about the air combat. Also, dogfighting isn't the only way to have fun with IL2/FB. Historically based Coop missions are the best way to play IMHO.
On a lighter note, your map advice for the mini-joystick on the CH Throttle was very, very helpful. Now I finally have a good use for the mini-stick. I assigned prop pitch and flaps to it. BTW, if you do want to use the mini-stick for view panning, increase the mouse speed in the in-game menu. I got the views to zip around quickly. I have TrackIR, so it is no longer necessary for me. And yes, I know you don't approve of TrackIR either, but that is your loss. I do agree it could use side to side movement though.


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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:52 PM
Somebody actually succeeded in downloading a skin from Il2skins?

Every time I've ever tried, the zip shows up corrupted and can't be opened.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:52 PM
False canopy Dave?

Hey!

Why not? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

http://www.sci.fi/~fta/Fwic5lo.jpg


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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:54 PM
thats weird i have lots on there, page sharxs would you please from the site he will be able to help you sort this, if you have one you want i could download it unzip it and email it straight to you un zipped, just page me if you want that



Message Edited on 07/28/0307:59PM by Taylortony

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:54 PM
Blind_Joe_Death wrote:
- Somebody actually succeeded in downloading a skin
- from Il2skins?
-
- Every time I've ever tried, the zip shows up
- corrupted and can't be opened.
-
-

Actually, it has been done successfully 360,977 times.





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Message Edited on 07/28/0303:55PM by Sharx66

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 08:55 PM
Okay, Hedus, so you're not going to calm down. At least act like an adult. You asked for opinions and then you snap at our heels.

Again, try to relax, go get some fresh air.

Hawk

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. J. Ripper

Cpt.LoneRanger
07-28-2003, 09:34 PM
Funny skin.

I really don't think it will save anybody, well, perhaps against an absolutely noob.

It's very interesting to look at all the skins in online sessions. Some are pretty nice and realistic, some are funny and some are just crap. But, hell, it's everybodies right to make his own skin and if someone is happy with that kind of skin, so be it. As long as they are not invisible, thatӞs fine with me. The skin will be black and grey after I shot at it, anyway /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


greets
Cpt.LoneRanger

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:26 PM
Hi

I find this most interesting especially some of the comments. For the past year I have been using a skin with a false cockpit on, namely the yak 9k, and it is more confusing than the one displayed. The cockpit was actually copied from an above view, then pasted underneath where the bulge is underneath the proper cockpit giving it a 3D look. The overall skin of the aircraft is from a screenshot of the terrain.

As for surviving, it has been very noticable that in close dogfighting how easy it can be to shake someone off and survival rates are also increased. As for the comments that you would not be fooled by it? especially with no outside views how do you know you havent? In a fast turnining twisting close enviroment it can be very easy to make a mistake and not realise what has happend. Against someone who knows of the fake cockpit though it would be probably different.

The only thing I have not fathomed out yet is how to skin the aircraft in the transparency of the cockpit to become invisible, now even I would deem that as cheating, but certainley not false cockpits.

Zacklaws

Hunter82
07-28-2003, 10:56 PM
never had a problem either..... corrupt zips are a product of packet loss generally..

That is normally not a server side option /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 10:58 PM
To fly in a WWII enviroment with a skin that has a cockpit shadow on its underside is really not taking the sim seriously, or respecting the sim. Its not close to the spirit of the game, nor the spirit of the dogfighting. Most people, even with non-historical paint jobs respect the model of the plane. Don't really think there is a difference between fake skins and changing the outward physical appearance of the plane.

Hawk, maybe you need to chill. I am pretty calm about things. Just drank lemonade on a hot day. Can't get much calmer than that.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 11:06 PM
Ok, about this historical problem . . . . .

What is to stop a pilot from grabbing sky-blue spray paints and giving his aircraft a touch-up, and then some black to paint a cockpit on the bottom . . .

It could have been done in WWII . . .


Personally, I'm a fan of the skull/crossbones insignia. We be pirates. Not historically accurate, but I still like it.

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 11:26 PM
Hedus,

While this is a good subject to discuss, i think you took the wrong approach by posting the screenshot of someone else skin in this forum by calling it crap.

You also talk about people not being serious. I know very good pilots at this game, including some with who we do coop full settings/ 1 hour rides blah bla etc.. You know what i mean. Can you tell me what the pair of snake eyes on one of my mate's 109 (just an example) could possibily ruin the seriousness of the game?

I, personnally, prefer historical skins, but tend to get a custom one semi historical with my markings. Those squad markings are non-historical but i was not born in 1940.

You have 1 point of view on non-historical skins, but you express it in an inmature way. The fact that, according to you,there's only one way and one set of rules to enjoy the game doesn't mean that you're the true lord with the absolute thruth on how FB should be enjoyed by others.

No hard feelings.



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Message Edited on 07/28/0306:28PM by Sharx66

XyZspineZyX
07-28-2003, 11:41 PM
And to think he could of stopped his little tantrum by 1. Not downloading the skin. 2. Made his own skin as he is so much more talented then sveryone else. 3.drank another glass of lemonade and realized just how stupid this topic realy is.

Oh and by the way what kind of cheese ya want with your WHINE



"Of all my accomplishments I may have achieved during the war, I am proudest of the fact that I never lost a wingman. It was my view that no kill was worth the life of a wingman. . . . Pilots in my unit who lost wingmen on this basis were prohibited from leading a [section]. They were made to fly as wingman, instead."
Erich 'Bubi' Hartmann "Karaya One"

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:12 AM
Hedus wrote:
- To fly in a WWII enviroment with a skin that has a
- cockpit shadow on its underside is really not taking
- the sim seriously, or respecting the sim.


It's NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!? Says who? You? And your authority to decide what is, and what is not, taking the sim seriously or respecting it comes from where, exactly?


Its not
- close to the spirit of the game, nor the spirit of
- the dogfighting.

NO?!?!?!?!! Funny, modern planes are sometimes painted that way. They violate this almighty spirit too?


Most people, even with
- non-historical paint jobs respect the model of the
- plane. Don't really think there is a difference
- between fake skins and changing the outward physical
- appearance of the plane.


I think you're a prat. If you don't like the skins, don't download them. But to post this pompous, preachy BS really is a bit much.

Nobody made you arbiter. Don't put on airs.




<img src=http://www.johnsonsmith.com/images/p1039.jpg>

Eeeeeeeeeee.......

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:39 AM
So what!

The point of IL-2/FB is;

1. An historically accurate flight sim of the Eastern Front during WWII.

2. A next to perfect prop flight sim.

3. A scalable 'game'

i.e. something for almost everybody.

I'm glad that skins can be made. The historically accurate ones give me a better sense of the history of WWII on the Eastern Front.

The non-historical skins are fun, and to me that is what makes this sim a cut above the others. I sometimes fly online in a 109 w/a WWI paintscheme. No one has complained. If the servers rules dictate historical skins, then I can decide if I want to play under those rules or not.

Get a grip Hedus. That skinner took time to make the skin. I admire them for doing so. Whether I like it or not doesn't matter to me, neither should it to you IMO.


*****Only left handed people are in their right minds.*****

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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:43 AM
OK, One, I didn't d/l the skin.

Two, I needed to link to it or alot of people wouldn't have had a clue what the hell I was talking about. Still looks like most don't.

This is a WWII flight combat sim, with the intention of simulating WWII dogfighting. Having a skin of the false cockpit shadow is not in the spirit of the sim, and is as close to arcadey as I have seen yet. I am not crying for ultra realism, but I am asking for skins that reflect the process of identification that is needed for a WWII combat flight sim. There are handicaps and benefits that are intrisic to the basic needs of PC dogfighting, and this skin takes away from it. It may be a well done skin, with great detail, and the author may have slaved over it for a long time. Great, whatever. But to use this skin going into an arena where others are going to be using proper skins is a travesty of what is trying to be enjoyed by dogfighters. This is why most mega-player WWII dogfight sims don't allow non-approved skins.

Why am I getting the idea that this forum board tends to lean to the "gaming the game" crowd?

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:46 AM
Hedus wrote:
- Your thoughts?

Big gold star for effort and on a great idea! For GAME play that is.. as for realism.. not so much! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif




TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:03 AM
Here are the rules i follow regarding skins:
If i like it, i download and give positive comments.
If i dont like it, i just leave well alone and accept that its just not to my liking. Others WILL like it.

It is accepable to give constructive criticism but not insults. For someone who claims to have made skins to rubbish someone else's work as 'krap'is pretty low.


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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:10 AM
I prefer other forms of distraction.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 01:51 AM
actually the one thing i mis about the old iL2 online was the ridiculous skins http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

some of my favourites ....
- pink pokemon skins
- dayglo barbie skins
- Austin Powers shaguar skins
- some reaaly daggy Il2 florals that looke dlike your grandmothers lounge suite


you don't see them like that anymore http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Hawgdog
07-29-2003, 02:41 AM
who cares



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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 02:55 AM
"I needed to link to it or alot of people wouldn't have had a clue what the hell I was talking about. Still looks like most don't."


No, Hedus, we all understand what you are trying to say and we respect your tastes and preferences; it's just that most (all?) of us here disagree with you. And that's ... okay, isn't it?

Please, chill out, it takes all kinds to make a world, learn to live with that without getting all upset.

Hawk

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. J. Ripper

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 04:07 AM
Hawk-4 wrote:
- I can no longer sit back and allow Communist
- infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist
- subversion, and the international Communist
- conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious
- bodily fluids. J. Ripper

Wouldn't the line "THERE IS NO FIGHTING IN THE WAR ROOM" fit better here? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif GOD I LOVE THAT MOVIE!





TAGERT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If WAR was not the ANSWER.. Than what the H was your QUESTION?

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 05:20 AM
Hedus, if you want to be such a stickler for realism, play off line. Good luck to you.

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 05:24 AM
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the War Room!"

Tagert,

You have taste, I'll give ya that.

"Dr. Strangelove" is my favorite movie of all time.

Hawk

I can no longer sit back and allow Communist infiltration, Communist indoctrination, communist subversion, and the international Communist conspiracy to sap and impurify all of our precious bodily fluids. J. Ripper

adlabs6
07-29-2003, 06:07 AM
I honestly fail to see the value of this topic.

Why would anyone say that using paint as a deceptive measure against enemy pilots is cheating? Is this not the SPIRIT of CAMOFLUAGE?

If it is OK to paint my aircraft to look like the sky, or trees or sand or water, then why is anything else not fair game also? The camofluage schemes of history were not chosen because they looked good on the plane. Deception is an essential, and fundamental tactic of war.

Just because a certain practice was not used during 1940-1945 does not invalidate the concept.

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XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 06:58 AM
5,000 years of ancient wisdom of the great far East teaches us this:

"Painting a stripe on a pumpkin don't make it no watermelon"







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Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

fluke39
07-29-2003, 12:07 PM
i actually created a skin from a screen capture of the ground - just to see what is was like.- and whther it would work

was quite good actually - as soon as the plane was below a bout 100 ft it was almost completely invisible - did look a bit crap close up though.

of course i would never use it online as i do consider this form of camouflage - unrealistic or cheating- to have gotten a camo scheme that effective in RL the plane wouldn't just have to have been painted the exact colur of the ground it probably would have to have actually had grass growing on it - which is of course completly stupid.

as to skins like the one posted above - i feel it has it's place - in say a private room where the use of such un-historical skins is agreed by all flyers -but noton sa server which is attempting to simulate RL.

<center><img src=http://mysite.freeserve.com/Angel_one_five/flukelogo.jpg>

Tully__
07-29-2003, 12:31 PM
Historically this sort of visual misdirection has been used in just about every conflict this century. What's unrealistic about it?

Incidentally, you'll find similar deceptive camouflage in nature, especially among fish.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 12:48 PM
Hunter82 wrote:

- never had a problem either..... corrupt zips are a
- product of packet loss generally..

I'm terribly sorry, but you are completely wrong.

There are two major transport protocols on top of IP (internet protocol): TCP and UDP.

All common download protocols (both of them, actually: HTTP and FTP) use TCP as their underlying protocol. TCP handles all packet loss to provide a stable and error free data stream between the two machines. For TCP streams, packet loss only results in slower transfer, never corrupt data.

Packet loss is only an issue when using protocols on top of UDP. These are usually used when increased latency is a bigger problem than the lost data. Examples of this is video streams and many game protocols. Especially in video streams it's better to just display the next frame than wait a few seconds for a resend of the lost packet.

Please don't come up with statements like that, since it will only spread a lot of myths about networking.


Message Edited on 07/29/0301:50PM by loke1169th

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 08:56 PM
I miss seeing the Barbie skins in the servers, to be honest.

Of course, the skin in question looses a bit when national marking are applied or if, gasp, padlock is used.

I prefer "semi-historical" skins myself.

Few Soviet pilots altered their paint schemes in any measurable way, so if you're going to "jazz" up your aircraft, chances are you're bending the historical aspect.

Heck, they barely painted the white stars red on some of the lend-lease P-39's!

I do like making skins where the stars are misaligned on the fuselage, cocking to one side or the other (which was fairly common, as the crew chiefs slapped them on, often without having somebody back up a bit to ensure they were aligned correctly). And tail numbers were basically free drawn, which I find cool for some reason.

At any rate, if you want to fly with a Budweiser or Pokemon skin, go ahead - just please also put on either an iron cross or a red star so I can sort you out (I typically fly no icons, PL enabled).

XyZspineZyX
07-29-2003, 09:18 PM
HAH I think thats very clever, it wouldnt fool me at all cause its black, what the guy needs to do is take a picture of a cockpit with guy in it and put that on the bottom, I couldnt tell what it was suppose to be then it just caught my eye right. How on earth could the fool anyone really? Just by how the plane is flying ull be able to tell which side is which.