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stalkervision
02-19-2009, 02:17 PM
"You gotta love a aircraft that fifty years on can outrun, out climb and out accelerate anything on this line today."

"It's still a missile" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKxOCwh7JsU

berg417448
02-19-2009, 02:47 PM
Those guys put on a great airshow. I've been lucky enough to see them twice. One local radio media guy got a ride in the two seater. I hate him!

ytareh
02-19-2009, 02:47 PM
Yeah its one of my faves too.The shape is so pure and simple...bullet shaped fuselage and tiny razor sharp (they had protectors on the ground to avoid injury to personnel!)wings ...Must have been one of the worst imaginable dogfighters...didnt they see action in Indo/Pakistan conflict and maybe Cyprus/Turkey also...oh DUH some served in Vietnam right?If I recall right they werent a great success there for sure.

ytareh
02-19-2009, 02:49 PM
Of course the Falklands showed that Mach 2 ability means squat against a slower , more advanced and maneuverable type like the Harrier...The Stealth planes are positively slow and even the latest hardware is no faster right?

WTE_Galway
02-19-2009, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by ytareh:
Yeah its one of my faves too.The shape is so pure and simple...bullet shaped fuselage and tiny razor sharp (they had protectors on the ground to avoid injury to personnel!)wings ...Must have been one of the worst imaginable dogfighters...didnt they see action in Indo/Pakistan conflict and maybe Cyprus/Turkey also...oh DUH some served in Vietnam right?If I recall right they werent a great success there for sure.

No kills in 'nam despite several thousand sorties, partly because F104's in the air meant no Migs ... they were a good Mig deterrent.

The Taiwanese bagged a Mainland Chinese Mig with a Starfighter during one of their little squabbles and there were a couple of kills claimed by F104's in the Indo/Pakistan conflict.

tagTaken2
02-20-2009, 12:40 AM
Love it. The shape of F-104 to me seems to encapsulate a whole generation of jets and rockets- it looks like it could be a starfighter, get to the edge of space and then just keep going.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...feature=channel_page (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOz_V3_bcGA&feature=channel_page)

roybaty
02-20-2009, 06:07 PM
I saw two at an airshow years ago, I was very impressed. And the grimy exhaust trails from those J79s were awesome.

horseback
02-20-2009, 10:06 PM
My Dad was stationed at Davis Monthan when the first 104s were coming in to be mothballed. The most striking thing about them is that they are so small; the wings are about waist high on an average man.

The other thing is the sound. It's a lot like the sound of someone blowing across the top of a beer bottle.

One of the coolest planes ever.

cheers

horseback

Friendly_flyer
02-21-2009, 02:45 AM
Like most fighters with a long development, it was build to fight fighters of the preceding generation. It wasn't a bad plane per se, it just couldn't do what was expected, particularly since GE for sales reasons tried to push it as an all purpose fighter/attacker. The "flying coffin"-effect was mostly due to use the small-lift, high speed fighter as a bomb-truck. It was a grate disappointment to the smaller NATO countries in Europe.

Col.BBQ
02-21-2009, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by Friendly_flyer:
Like most fighters with a long development, it was build to fight fighters of the preceding generation. It wasn't a bad plane per se, it just couldn't do what was expected, particularly since GE for sales reasons tried to push it as an all purpose fighter/attacker. The "flying coffin"-effect was mostly due to use the small-lift, high speed fighter as a bomb-truck. It was a grate disappointment to the smaller NATO countries in Europe.

It was designed primary to intercept nuclear armed bombers back when they were a threat.

Jaws2002
02-21-2009, 06:02 PM
Cool plane, but to be honest I'm disapointed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
I was expecting a wickedly fast, bad a$$, low flying Mo-f-ing Zipper, not a flaps down 300km/h cesna run. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This is how the Zipper should fly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQasfk3LcTw

stalkervision
02-21-2009, 08:01 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
Cool plane, but to be honest I'm disapointed. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif
I was expecting a wickedly fast, bad a$$, low flying Mo-f-ing Zipper, not a flaps down 300km/h cesna run. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

This is how the Zipper should fly:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQasfk3LcTw

excellent video buddy. I could watch it again and again and again. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

I ask you. What plane can match this manned missile? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

stalkervision
02-21-2009, 08:09 PM
anyone know what this plane is.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Xf-108.png

or this one..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/X-27_mockup.jpg

stalkervision
02-21-2009, 08:16 PM
threw this in, The 104's cockpit. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/imgs_cockpits/lockheed-f104c.jpg

berg417448
02-21-2009, 08:40 PM
The first one looks like the XF-108.

RPMcMurphy
02-22-2009, 03:58 AM
While in N Iraq in the early 90s I saw a couple of 104s in formation flying low over the mountains. They had that distinctive howl. I geuss it was the Turkish AirForce.
And in Italy I saw one flying( late 90s.)
Fiat had thier virsion too.
And, I saw 2 F-104s at an Airshow at Pope Airforce Base in NC eight or ten years ago. They were civilian owned.
Gotta love that lawn-dart.

Bo_Nidle
02-27-2009, 10:49 AM
Much as I like the F-104, the fact was that it was NOT a particularly good aircraft. Too thirsty for its capacity, not maneuverable. VERY unforgiving. Lightly armed.
The USAF only adopted it against their will and got rid of them VERY quickly in comparison to other frontline fighters.

The downward firing ejection seat of the early A-versions killed many pilots involved in take-off emergencies including noted test pilot Iven Kincheloe.

It was only adopted by the Luftwaffe, who did not want it at all, due to Lockheed bribing corrupt German politicians. Lockheed went onto bribe in the same fashion in Japan, Italy, and Holland. These dishonest practices were to lead to the American Government instituting the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act in the 1970's.

In my opinion the darkest side to this affair is the question: How many of the pilots who were killed in this aircraft would be alive today if the F-104's superior opposition aircraft had been adopted as they should have been. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

All that aside I have always liked the 104 purely for its looks and engine howl. The NF-104 with its rocket assist and reaction control thrusters is IMHO the coolest version and always fascinated me since reading "The Right Stuff" even then it had a good try at killing Chuck Yeager!
http://www.landspeed.com/images/nf104.jpg

I remember seeing the Vikings display team in 1986 and they were very impressive. Sadly they were disbanded a short time later.
http://aerobaticteams.net/images/Vikings_F-104_Starfighter-01.jpg

I always like this painting by William S Phillips: "Over the top"
http://www.ernstgallery.com/art_pix/gw/oo/overthetop.jpg

So there it is; Enigmatic and controversial at the same time. But I suppose that is the definition of "character".

Bremspropeller
02-27-2009, 11:22 AM
It was only adopted by the Luftwaffe, who did not want it at all, due to Lockheed bribing corrupt German politicians. Lockheed went onto bribe in the same fashion in Japan, Italy, and Holland. These dishonest practices were to lead to the American Government instituting the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act in the 1970's.

Well, that's only part of the story.
Although Franz-Josef Strauß is thought to have accepted bribes, the 104 was certainly the only a/c to fulfill all Luftwaffe-criterea for the new fighter/ fighter-bomber.
NO fighter that was evaluated back then had a capability anywhere near the one of the 104G.
Apart from designs that were never put in service (TSR), the 104G was the most advanced flighter-bomber of it's age.
Not even the F-105 could match it's capabilites.
A F-111 could, but that one was designed to do just that.

The 104G in turn could as well be used in air-air.
And it did quite well - despite having the worst thrust/weight ratios of all 104s, all she had to fear was an EE-Lightning.

When 104s were in the air in SEA, the MiGs stayed on the ground, period.
The Pakis fecked up on a big scale, using it as a dogfighter, whereas the 104 should have been used in the vertical plane.

In the US, it was evident that nothing could touch a well-flown 104!
It certainly was the best ACM-platform of it's age - with the exception of the Lightning.
But the Lightning could hardly fly a save traffic-pattern (fuel-wise) whereas the 104 actually had a good combat-radius (in fact it was farther than the one of an F-4 in Lo-Lo-Lo).

Luftwaffe 104Gs won precision-strike excercises as late as in the 80s.

Bremspropeller
02-27-2009, 11:33 AM
BTW: another reason for buying the 104 was America's willingness to give Germany access to nukes in case of Cold War running hot.

Story goes that F.-J. Strauss asked about french nukes in case Germany buoght Mirages.
As DeGaulle rejected, Strauss told him to "forget about the Mirages".

Well, sometimes it can be as simple as that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

mortoma
03-11-2009, 08:57 PM
Amazing that the great climb of the 104 was from sheer power, not for the lift capabilities of the wings.

Cajun76
03-11-2009, 11:52 PM
IMO only, one of the amazing aspects is that it wouldn't look too out of place on a modern ramp. Plenty of other A/C from that era, look like they're from that era, but the Starfighter just has a timeless, futuristic look, even now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Bremspropeller
03-14-2009, 03:04 PM
Amazing that the great climb of the 104 was from sheer power, not for the lift capabilities of the wings.

Not amazing at all.
A Saturn V will climb like mad and has no wings at all http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

Oh yeah referring to low-passes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byLplPe-_2k