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BobV_07
04-09-2005, 03:44 PM
Ok, I'm sure this has been asked and answered a few thousand times but I'm unable to find anything on it. So here goes my question.

I have finaly decided to give the manual TDC thing a try and I have read the manual on how to do this. I succefuly collect all data, fire a torp and it always ends up going past the aft end of the ship. I have even tried to set the bearing a little ahead of the actual bearing in hopes that would make the torp go twards the bow of the ship. So, whats the prob here? I would love to hear any hints, tricks that anybody has to help. Thanks a buntch in advance!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif<-----me


http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0037/0046.jpg

BobV_07
04-09-2005, 03:44 PM
Ok, I'm sure this has been asked and answered a few thousand times but I'm unable to find anything on it. So here goes my question.

I have finaly decided to give the manual TDC thing a try and I have read the manual on how to do this. I succefuly collect all data, fire a torp and it always ends up going past the aft end of the ship. I have even tried to set the bearing a little ahead of the actual bearing in hopes that would make the torp go twards the bow of the ship. So, whats the prob here? I would love to hear any hints, tricks that anybody has to help. Thanks a buntch in advance!!! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif&lt;-----me


http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0037/0046.jpg

Johnny_JG2
04-09-2005, 04:26 PM
First of all, make sure that you click the check box on the notepad to "send" the data to the TDC.

Secondly, make sure that you open your torpedo tube door before firing.

Maj_Death
04-09-2005, 05:15 PM
When I plugged in the data, I never hit a thing if it was moving. My torps would always go too far ahead or more often than not, end up 100m behind the target. What I do know is just eyeball it. I don't bother with the TDC at all. Just point the scope and shoot while making sure to give appropriate lead on the target (practice makes perfect). FYI, I spent 4 patrols trying to make the TDC work, failed to score a single hit. On the first patrol I did going by feel alone, I scored 2 hits with 4 torpedoes. Since then I've worked my way up to 100% accuracy and this was only a couple days ago that I made the switch. BTW I use T-1's set on fast. It would be a lot tougher with the slow moving T-2's.

BobV_07
04-10-2005, 01:43 AM
Thanks guys for your help! Much appreciated. I have found that after entering the data I simply move the periscope a little ahead of the target and the torp hits or I should say bounces off the target....LOL! Out of all my torps I think only 2 or 3 exploded. All others were duds. Bounce, bounce, bounce and bounce and stinking bounce! I wonder if the Germans actualy had THAT MUCH trouble with them? Hmmmm! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif


If any one elts has some ideas, please post them. Thanks. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0037/0046.jpg

deckchair5
04-10-2005, 02:18 AM
I've been doing quite a few up the rear shots ( no comments please) using manual as a) they don't spot you so easily if you surface behind them b) their speed doesn't matter so much c) although the need for accuracy is greater as the target is smaller, they are a static target in the scope so once you're lined up astern that's it d) you hit their rudder and prop so they are dead meat after one hit and finish them off with deck gun. Even a dud torp might disable the rudder.

Just lovely to sneakily surface behind them, line up the shot and watch as it impacts.

What a lovely, heart warming feature the deck gun is! Sheeeeewwww BLAM! Fantastic!

Maj_Solo
04-10-2005, 02:53 AM
Easiest solution to begin with, do it by the book, but before you fire unlock the scope, turn the scope and give the target some lead, then fire.

My hit ratio is still only 55 - 70 percent, I want more, so I will take some time and specialize some shooting tables for shooting merchants at 8 knots, with torpedoes set to maximum range and maximum speed, target speed 0, and then just a rough distance measurement using scope and looking at the angle relative my boat instead. If possible I like to have some tables for shooting fast "when the wolf is in the hen house".


I had/have the same problems, cursed and screamed, the system couldn't have been this bad in real life, they would have wasted expensive torpedoes and all that time spent sailing back and forth and war is about being efficient. You have to kill a lot in short time. In real life, if the torpedoes constantly miss by exactly that much then you trim the system differently so they hit, I rather see a torpedo miss ahead than lagging behind as it constantly do now.

My solution now is to do the measurments by the book to get a rough estimate and if the number that come up looks ok then I unlock the sight and place it 1 - 1,5 ship length ahead if looking 90 degree from the side and target is at "normal" speed and then this lead is reduced pretty quickly if the angle is less.

And if the speed measurment gives a bad target speed it is an indication that some of the previous input is wrong, you might even have put in the wrong ship type. So if the speed seems wrong then I remeasure, and if the speed is bad again I recheck ship type.

But when all data is good the torpedo still dont hit target so unlock, give the target some lead and then fire.

If it is stormy I still do the procedure, unzoom the scope and use eyeball+brain to guess what is reasonable then hit F6 and press the button for manual input and set the target speed to 8knots then look at the plotted torpedo course and then fire one, if I am uncertain turn the dial some more and fire two, even if it hurts, but it is better than missing all my "first serves".

I think this targetting system might not be modelled correctly, it can't have been accepted this way during WWII.

deckchair5
04-10-2005, 03:07 AM
If your torps are constantly lagging behind Major are you opening the torpedo doors before hitting the fire button? The 3 second delay is accountable.

Sparhawk162
04-10-2005, 03:21 AM
I agree with deckchair5 as even playing with the automatic TDC not opening the torpedo doors can make you miss. Those few seconds are vital.....

ObltRutter
04-10-2005, 05:09 AM
Here is a short run you can do to learn your manual TDC procedures. Fire up the torpedo training mission (make sure you were last in a scenario or campaign with auto TDC off). The target is going to be that freighter behind you. As soon as the scenario starts, get that scope up and start going. It's quite possible to set up and launch this attack with the scope above water for less than 40 seconds, including the few seconds it takes to get the scope back under the surface.

In an actual shooting situation you would know from your hydrophones that you've got a contact somewhere around 145 degrees, so as your scope is going up turn to that bearing underwater so that you can immediately lock onto the freighter as soon as you can.

Before you do anything else, zoom in and put the horizontal line on the freighter's waterline, this will save you a few seconds when it comes time to range the target.

Open the merchant section of your recognition manual, you're looking for a cargo ship with four masts and a pretty tall center stack. Go ahead and hit the checkbox when you've found the right one. If you want to shave off a few more seconds from your scope time, have it open to the merchant section before you raise the scope.

Click range on the notepad, and hit the ranging button. Align the thin bar in the periscope view with the tallest mast you see on the target. You don't have to be pixel precise, it's a long ship and another 50 meters of range one way or the other isn't going to hurt you. Once you get the range (which should be around 1600m), confirm it by hitting the checkmark and go to AOB.

The target is moving towards your right so you're going to select a value on the right side of the dial. This doesn't have to be degree precise either, the TDC plot will adjust for the target's course per the AOB but the AOB will also change the calculated speed of that course. These errors will tend to correct each other across a pretty wide range of values. Go ahead and give it your best guess. In testing I scored a hit at 30, 35, 45, 60, 70, 80 and 90 degrees.

Then go to the speed section and give it 10 seconds under the watch, depending on the AOB you'll end up with a speed somewhere between 6 and 16 knots. Confirm with a checkmark and go back to your filled out notepad.

Now this is the really vital part. Select the tube you are going to fire (tube 5) and then hit the checkmark to send this data to the tube, then hit fire (don't worry about opening the door first). If you hit the checkmark first you'll be giving the data to tube 1, then selecting tube 5 and then firing an unguided torpedo out of the back end of your boat which is almost certain to miss.

Performing the previous steps within a minute (and if it takes longer than that, practice until you can do it in under a minute) will ensure a good clean hit (I didn't have a single miss until I dropped the AOB from 30 to 25 degrees). The target might see the torpedo at the end of the run but its a fast torpedo and a pretty slow target and it will still get hit.

It's good practice as this is a standard situation you can run as many times as you need until you can work the basics fast and accurately.

If this is working fine for you and you still can't hit ships on patrol, I'd say that the problem lies in the data you are feeding to the TDC. You enter the right information into it and your torpedoes will hit the target.

Even a delay from the doors opening isn't that great, it's 1.7 meters away from the aim point per knot of target speed (no matter how far away the target is) so even at 12 knots you'll only hit 20 meters behind the aim point if you fire 3 seconds late. 17m isn't much on a 78m+ merchant. And for this exercise at typical AOB values moves the impact point just back far enough to put the torpedo right into the fuel bunker which is one impressive detonation. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

BobV_07
04-10-2005, 11:32 AM
Oh, man! I wrote out a buntch of things and this silly forum had an error and I lost it all. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Basicaly I said thank you all very much for your input. My last mission was the best one I have had so far. Thanks guys! I'm off to go sink me some ships...hehehehe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0037/0046.jpg

klaoud2005
04-10-2005, 04:17 PM
Just two cents on manual TDC Attacks, something interesting I learned and which turned out to be very effective for rough weather attacks.

I recently engaged a convoy in very rough weather and couldn't go through the "normal" procedure of taking range, because of the constant movement, so my ranges were off and hence my speed estimates were way off too. I already knew that the convoy was doing about 7 kts from comparison to my own speed, and they were already alerted to my presence by my first victim so they were all zig-zaging, and so the AOB was also changing continuously. Wonderful!!

So, to deal with this I decided to follow Kretschmer's night surface attack procedure, at least the general idea of it the way it was described in this book that read a long time ago, where you effectively aim your torpedo using your boat. I only like using steam torpedoes set at max speed (you don't have to lead as much)and depth as appropriate for your target. Manually set AOB for 0 and bearing either 0 or 180 depending on if you are using your fwd or Aft tubes. Range set at 500m but this really is insignificant for this method. I just use it because that's the distance you should be trying to fire from. Then it's all a matter of approach. I steer my boat parallel to the the targets course, at a distance of about 800-1000m(closer if it's going to be a stern shot), then when I am just slightly ahead of the target I swing the boat hard over in the direction of the target (swing away from the target for a stern shot)and fire my torpedo when my bow(or stern) is just about to pointing at his bow. You can play around with the approach method, but the key thing is you are looking for a shot from forward of the targets beam. With a little practice I am scoring hits almost 100% of the time. It really helps to be able to judge the distance by the eye but this comes with practice. I only use this procedure for rough weather when i can't effectively measure range. Later in the war when it seems that just about everyone is shooting at you, you can also do this procedure under water with your scope lined up on on bearing 0 or 180.

If this is really obvious stuff, and I've just bored you to tears sorry, I just thought I'd share my experiences because I was really frustrated by heavy weather attacks, and this procedure solved it.

The_Gorey
04-10-2005, 05:08 PM
its quite easy.

first take two bearing and range readings (this can be done visually through the scope as well) and plot the ships course on the map.

if visually i'll pick two degree marks and get ranges for at each (ie. 310 & 315). plot those two on the map to get his course. then at say 330 degrees draw a line from your ship to his course and measure the AOB. go back to the periscope and enter in that AOB and wait for him to get to 330. when he gets to 330, take another quick range reading then hit the timer to get his speed.

now all you gotta do is pick when you want to fire. we'll do it when he gets to 350 degrees.

go to the map & draw a line from you to his course at 350 degrees. measure the distance, measure the AOB at that point and start plugging in the numbers into the dials in the F6 screen.

you know his speed from earlier so turn the dial to that number... you know his AOB when he gets to 350 degrees, so input that as well. you know the range at the same location.. enter it. on the far left dial in the F6 screen, turn it to 10 degrees port (because you will be firing at 350). then adjust your torp depth for the ship (~2m below his keel), recheck all the dials and wait for him to get to 350 degrees off your nose.

fire away and marvel at your accuracy.

biggest mistake you can make using that scratchpad is guessing at his AOB. plot his course, pick a degree mark in front of him and measure the AOB on the map. have it entered before hand and wait for him to hit it before preceding.

if this were a convoy, i'd keep everythign the same and just adjust the range knob and wait for each ship to pass through 350 degrees. they are all on the same course... will all be at the same speed, and will all be at the same AOB at 350 degrees.. just adjust the range and torp depths (which i usually do before hand) and recheck the dials to make sure none have moved.

last time i did this, i fired 4 torps.. at 4 diff ships.. and sunk all 4.

wazooda
04-10-2005, 05:20 PM
I just posted an Online Web Tutorial for doing manual attacks and manual charting.

Maybe it will answer some of your questions:

Wazoo's Manual Tutorial (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII)

LEt me know if you find it helpful.

Regards,

Wazoo

The_Gorey
04-10-2005, 05:24 PM
good stuff, but my version is quicker and easier... and deadly accurate.

wazooda
04-10-2005, 05:40 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by JG52_Gutted:
good stuff, but my version is quicker and easier... and deadly accurate. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To each his own. Personally... I do not like using the in-game timing function on the notepad. I find just clicking a stopwatch for 15 seconds and getting a speed is a bit too "magical" for my tastes.

In addition, the speed proves to be inaccurate if your U-boat is in motion.

Wazoo

The_Gorey
04-10-2005, 05:56 PM
i only do that when its visual. normally i have everything setup beyond visual range.

2 readings one minute apart.. multiply the meters he traveled times .03 and you got your speed.

klaoud2005
04-10-2005, 10:33 PM
Guys what is your method in rough weather when you can't get an accurate range visually and don't have radar or sonar ranging?

The_Gorey
04-10-2005, 11:26 PM
luck :P

klaoud2005
04-11-2005, 02:23 PM
Indeed!

BobV_07
04-11-2005, 07:07 PM
Thanks so very much gentleman! You all have been more then generous with your tips on manual TDC. Thanks a million! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


http://adjunct.diodon349.com/photopoint/0037/0046.jpg