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TheGozr
11-26-2004, 09:10 PM
Hum i don't know if it was this way in the ww2 but the Ki-61 is just not up for it. try it and try to climb or get some sea level speed with it.

Many planes are not right.

TheGozr
11-26-2004, 09:10 PM
Hum i don't know if it was this way in the ww2 but the Ki-61 is just not up for it. try it and try to climb or get some sea level speed with it.

Many planes are not right.

Jumoschwanz
11-26-2004, 09:31 PM
I have read a bit about the Ki-61, or "Tony" as the allies code named it, in a few different books.

On Greg "Pappy" Boyington's last mission, when he was shot down along with others in his squadron, it was at the buisness end of the Ki-61. Boyington said it was the only Japanese plane that could dive with a Corsair. He was shooting down a Tony that he witnessed shoot down one of his buddies in an F4U, when one got him from behind. This is all in Boyington's book.
Another book I have tells how the Japs tested the Tony against a captured P-40 and a german Bf109 they had and it outperformed both of these. So it was a pretty good craft. When a radial engine was stuck on the front of it and it became the Ki-100, a squadron of them shot down 14 Hellcats in one engagement with no loss to themselves.
The Ki-61s engine was a licensed built and improved version of the engine in the Bf109, and the cannons in the Ki-61 were German imported mg-151 cannons!

I have had fun flying the Ki-61 against allied craft in Patch 3.01. I have not tried it in the new patch. If it has been detuned I hope it is so it fits some actual flight data that exists somewhere. My book has it's top speed at 560km/hr and climbing at 675meters/minute, service ceiling between 10k and 11k meters and a range of 1600-1800 kilometers. How does that jive with your patched Ki-61? S!

Jumoschwanz

mortoma
11-26-2004, 10:10 PM
Jumo, 560kph at what altitude??

GR142_Astro
11-26-2004, 10:25 PM
I hope they get the 61 right eventually. I have always liked this plane, thought it was a Japanese 109 when I was a kid.

Cmon 1C, a little attention for the Tone.

Jumoschwanz
11-26-2004, 10:29 PM
My book does not say what alt the Ki-61 would go 560km/hr at but I think it was at high alt, around 5000 meters and here is why:

The engine in the Ki-61 was a refined copy of the db601 engine that was used in the early bf109, lastly in the F-2 model.

In Pacific Fighters 3.01:

The 109 e-7 will go 464km/hr at sea level and 530km/hr at 5000meters.

The better streamlined f-2 will go 493km/hr at sea level and 590km/hr at 5000meters.

The Ki-61 will go 460km/hr at sea level and 532km/hr at 5000meters.

The Ki-61 accelerates noticably slower than the early bf109. It should as it weighed almost 1000kg more than the bf109.

So in 3.01 the acceleration looks right as the plane weighs more, but I wonder if the top speed is down as the Ki-61 looks more streamlined than the E-7, it looks clean like the F-2.

As far as aerobatic ability goes, if it had no problem shooting down all those Hellcats and corsairs it must have been more or less as good as anything else out there.

If the Ki-61 is changed at all in future patches the changes should be small or limited to slightly increasing it's top speed. This is my take on it. S!

Jumoschwanz

TheGozr
11-26-2004, 10:37 PM
3.02b killed it.

VF-29_Sandman
11-26-2004, 11:57 PM
plane also has a manual pitch control. be advised, it will seize very quick if overheated. max speed i could get out of it at crimea at 5k meters was roughly 450km.

ElAurens
11-27-2004, 01:01 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
3.02b killed it. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You could not be more wrong.

I fly it almost exculsively now, and notice no difference whatsoever in 3.02. The climb rate is as before, it still dives with the best of them, and turns quite well indeed. It may be not as fast at low altitude as in real life, but if you start with an altitude advantge you can compete with just about any aircraft in the sim. And I'm not talking AIs here, but real live humans controlling their aircraft.

The real Ki61 had a top speed of 360mph at 15,000ft. (give or take). This is a good performance for an aircraft with only 1100hp.

Too bad we won't be getting the Ki61 II Kai, with the improved Ha 140 (roughly the equal of a DB 605) engine. The performance estimates with this powerplant put the top speed near 425mph. Can you imagine the whining?

ElAurens
11-27-2004, 01:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VF-29_Sandman:
plane also has a manual pitch control. be advised, it will seize very quick if overheated. max speed i could get out of it at crimea at 5k meters was roughly 450km. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Converting your figures to Imperial we get an indicated airspeed of 279.62mph @ 16,404.2ft.

Calculating for the standard day we get a True airspeed of 369.098mph. Right on the money for a Ki61.

k5054
11-27-2004, 03:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Too bad we won't be getting the Ki61 II Kai, with the improved Ha 140 (roughly the equal of a DB 605) engine. The performance estimates with this powerplant put the top speed near 425mph. Can you imagine the whining? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

More likely to be in the same speed range as a 109G6, MC205 or Fiat G55, all with the DB605, around 390mph give or take 10. Ki-61 is altogether bigger and heavier than the 109, and is not likely to be as fast for the same power as the F or G. I've seen a figure of 379 for the Ki61-II. Seems not too far out.

Jumoschwanz
11-27-2004, 10:41 PM
I have two test setups to measure performance of the planes in this sim for speed and acceleration. I tested the Ki-61 in the new 3.02b and it's speed at sea level, 5000meters alt. and it's acceleration have not changed at all.

That said, I looked through another book of mine on fighters and found a really nice two page spread on this plane. It quoted it's speed at 5000 meters Altitude at 580km/hr, a bit more than my other book i found it in. I do think this plane should at least be given a twenty or thirty km/hr boost in this sim to make it right.

But I am happy just to have it at all and have it as good as it is. It is fine for a first try and we surely have many patches to go and chances to refine all our craft in this sim.S!

Jumoschwanz

VW-IceFire
11-27-2004, 10:46 PM
Flew it today...seems pretty normal. Nice plane, likes to hold its speed, and the MG151/20 version packs a good punch!

ICDP
11-28-2004, 02:09 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
I have two test setups to measure performance of the planes in this sim for speed and acceleration. I tested the Ki-61 in the new 3.02b and it's speed at sea level, 5000meters alt. and it's acceleration have not changed at all.

That said, I looked through another book of mine on fighters and found a really nice two page spread on this plane. It quoted it's speed at 5000 meters Altitude at 580km/hr, a bit more than my other book i found it in. I do think this plane should at least be given a twenty or thirty km/hr boost in this sim to make it right.

But I am happy just to have it at all and have it as good as it is. It is fine for a first try and we surely have many patches to go and chances to refine all our craft in this sim.S!

Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi, Jumoschwanz.

I have tested the Ki61 (all versions) and I can reach 583kph at 5000m and 490kph at sea level. It seems the Ki63 is almost perfect in speed performance.

Regards

Jumoschwanz
11-28-2004, 08:29 AM
That's wierd, I wonder why my Ki will not go that fast. What map, time of day, fuel load and etc. were you using? I had a quarter tank of gas at high noon on the Smolensk map and was not using complicated engine management, for instance. S!

Jumoschwanz

p1ngu666
11-28-2004, 08:37 AM
http://www.uploadit.org/gallery/12331
that help?
and ya, slow acceloration http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

ICDP
11-28-2004, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jumoschwanz:
That's wierd, I wonder why my Ki will not go that fast. What map, time of day, fuel load and etc. were you using? I had a quarter tank of gas at high noon on the Smolensk map and was not using complicated engine management, for instance. S!

Jumoschwanz <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

50-100% fuel, full internal ammo, QMB Crimea map, midday, no AAA, starting alt lower than your intended test alt. Use rads closed and full throttle, 100% PP (auto on 109's/Ki61/Doras etc), WEP on (if available) and climb to the test altitude to eliminate any speed gained by diving. Make sure you trim the aircraft for level flight and keep the ball centred as much as possible (using trim if available). Also make sure you use the no cockpit view to show TAS.